Sanders after Obama clinched with superdelegates: "party has chosen its nominee"

[geek tragedy]

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/281302-sanders-takes-different-position-on-superdelegates-than-he-did-in-2008

But Sanders struck a different tone in 2008, when he told his hometown newspaper, the Burlington Free Press in Vermont, that he planned to “play a very active role” in supporting Obama.

“I will do everything I can to see that he is elected president,” he said at the time.

That interview was published on June 5, 2008, two days after the last Democratic contests but two days before Clinton suspended her campaign.

The story also noted that “Sanders said he held off supporting either of the Democrats because he has made it a custom not to support any Democrat for the presidential nomination until the party had chosen its nominee.”

At that point, however, Obama had 1,766.5 pledged delegates and Clinton had 1,639.5, according to data from RealClearPolitics. In 2008, 2,118 total delegates were required to secure the nomination.

At present, Clinton has 1,768 pledged delegates to Sanders’s 1,497, according to the AP. But the news service also counts Clinton as having the backing of 537 superdelegates to only 42 for Sanders.

What happened to that Bernie Sanders?

[RandySF]

1. He decided it does not apply to him.

[geek tragedy]

4. I guess his advanced degree in #Berniemath wasn't complete. nt

[workinclasszero]

6. Only for the little people

[writes3000]

2. How Ironic! Very, very telling. Great find.

[politicaljunkie41910]

58. Bernie's situational honesty and trustworthiness is wearing thin.

As a Californian, I'm looking forward to this all being over tomorrow. Then we can start to rebuild the Democratic party with or without Bernie.

[SidDithers]

3. DU rec...

and I look forward to keeping this thread kicked through most of next week.

Sid

[workinclasszero]

5. I wonder if there's video of this

That would be on endless rewind all over the internets after tuesday

[Trust Buster]

7. Sanders is selfish. He's all about himself. He fooled many. That's what hypocrites do.

[UMTerp01]

8. The Independent HYPOCRITE!!!! nt

[Garrett78]

9. This is far more damning than the various Puerto Rico allegations.

I guess the only reason Sanders or his supporters might put forth as an explanation is that Obama wasn't facing potential legal trouble (Sanders, though, used to not care about Clinton's "damn emails&quot . But even in the unlikely event that Clinton doesn't become the nominee, Sanders still won't be the nominee. The convention would be brokered and the delegates would turn to someone else.

On a side note, I really wish DU would do something to cut down on repeat threads.

[BreakfastClub]

10. Bernie is very consistent in his hypocrisy. nt

[Txbluedog]

11. Oh please let me the media find a video of this and play it on loop

[thesquanderer]

12. He waited until the last primary was over.

Let's see what he does after Washington DC this year before noting this possible hypocrisy. (Who knows, maybe he'll even surprise you and give you the announcement you want even before then.)

[geek tragedy]

13. I hope he surprises me. nt

[Garrett78]

14. Maybe he will, but his rhetoric indicates hypocrisy.

[rhett o rick]

15. That same Bernie Sanders is supporting a government without Hillary Clinton the same now

as he did then. We don't want someone that is beholden to the big corporations. Why would you?

[Garrett78]

18. Do you honestly think Obama and Clinton are that different?

You don't think Goldman Sachs was a huge contributor to the Obama campaign?

[brewens]

16. It is a quite different situation in 2008. I felt Hillary would make an okay president but Obama

would be better. Now if both of them were running, I'd be dead set against them. We've learned a lot the last eight years. We can't take more of the same. That's the reason for Bernie and his movement. We're not going away.

[Garrett78]

17. I haven't learned anything.

I have the same expectations for a Clinton Admin as I had for the Obama Admin. And I truly don't get why others don't.

The US political system has been what it is for a very long time.

[thesquanderer]

41. Many people had higher expectations of the Obama administration and were disappointed.

So a continuation of the same is not necessarily a positive for everybody.

True, "the US political system has been what it is for a very long time." Not everyone wants to vote to support that if there is an apparent alternative. Not everyone has reached the point of being resigned to things being the same as they has been.

[geek tragedy]

20. "It's different this time because Bernie is running"

No one is taking his latest nonsense seriously.

[sheshe2]

19. KnR!

[qdouble]

21. Most candidates don't hint at giving up until they give up...

just hoping Sanders won't be an ass and give up the charade before or right after DC votes.

[Surya Gayatri]

22. Whoa! Great find. Massive K & R. Thanks for posting.

[uponit7771]

23. +1, how does one spell hypocrite ... give me an S ...

[realmirage]

24. Interesting...

[Lucinda]

25. KNR

[Meteor Man]

26. "What happened to that Bernie Sanders?"

Devine also cautioned against prejudging the outcome of the remaining primaries. He noted that New Jersey and California had both voted in March 2008, whereas this year primaries in both states are only now “coming down the pike.”

So this was 2 or 3 months after California and New Jersey voted. That could be relevant.

“It’s quite clear that there is a limited possibility that he will be the nominee,” Sheinkopf said. “But his attacks can do some damage to Secretary Clinton by reminding people that she is not on the left of the party, for those who feel she ought to be.”

Let me make sure I got this right. Bernie's attacks "remind" people that Hillary is not to the left of the party. Hmmmm.

And that's a problem "for those who feel she ought to be."

Ok. I think I got it now.

[geek tragedy]

29. We'll see if indeed he is a shamelessly hypocritical sore loser

this week when he's behind by 275+ pledged delegates after California has voted.

[Vattel]

27. Obama at that time had clinched the majority of pledged delegates.

Clinton today has not clinched the majority of pledged delegates. In terms of pledged delegates, Sanders today is in a better position than Clinton was on May 7, 2008, and yet Clinton stayed in for another month.

[geek tragedy]

28. On Tuesday she clinches a majority of pledged

Bernie says that's not good enough to claim victory. Bernie says having a majority of all delegates isn't good enough either.

Clinton was not behind by 289 pledged delegates so not sure how your math works.

[Vattel]

32. My math works because, due to Michigan and Florida's being penalized,

there were a lot fewer pledged delegates in 2008. After May 7, Clinton needed something like 80% of the remaining pledged delegates to win a majority. She was 164 pledged delegates behind with only 217 remaining. That doesn't count Michigan and Florida and, of course, ultimately the DNC gave those states half their delegates, but there was no chance that the DNC would do something crazy like give Obama no Michigan delegates (which her campaign ridiculously suggested would be fair).

Side note: The DNC really messed up the 2008 primary with the ridiculous rules about when states could hold their primaries.

[geek tragedy]

33. Michigan and Florida was the big deal back then.

Especially since, depending on whether one counted them or not, she was arguably winning the popular vote (Obama won a lot of caucuses). That was a real mess back then, agreed.

Any way one slices it, on Tuesday June 7, 2016 she will be in the same position Obama was on June 3, 2008, and Sanders will be in the same position Clinton was on June 3, 2008.

Personally I have no issue with him fighting on platform, reforming the nomination process etc. But, at some point, he has to stop denying that the voters should have the final say.

[Vattel]

37. Yes, MI and FL were a big deal. And I agree with you that he should concede after the last primary.

But I don't think he should be accused of being anti-democracy if he carries the fight to the convention. The primary process is what it is, and, unfortunately, it is not a majority-wins process (the election in November won't be that either). Sanders is entitled to play by the rules and seek victory. The process has been stacked against him in many ways, and I can appreciate why he might fight on (even though I think he shouldn't). Barring something really crazy happening, he will lose whether he fights on or not, and he knows that. So the majority of the voters in the primaries will have their way.

[thesquanderer]

40. "Any way one slices it, on Tuesday June 7, 2016 she will be in the same position Obama was on June 3, 2008"

not exactly... there will still be one more primary to go. Also, one candidate may still have an FBI investigation hanging over her head. So there are other ways to slice it...

[onenote]

38. Your math "works" because you arbitrarily picked May 7.

But a more appropriate measuring stick would be comparing 2008 at the same point we are today. Today there are 714 pledged delegates, or approximately 17.6 % of the total, still available to be won. The closest one can come to a comparable point in 2008 is after March 11, 2008, when there were 17.4% of the delegates (566) left to be won (this is assuming for these purposes that no delegates were being counted for FL or MI). At that point, Clinton needed 65 percent of the remaining delegates to get to a majority of the pledged delegates. Today, Sanders needs over 70 percent of the remaining.

[Vattel]

52. I have no idea what your point is supposed to be.

[onenote]

53. I don't find that surprising in the least. But I'll try again

At a comparable point in the nominating process to today (i.e., a comparable percentage of the pledged votes still up for grabs), Clinton was closer to the nomination (albeit pretty far away) than Sanders is today.

Which undercuts your somewhat peculiar claim that Sanders is closer today than Clinton was on May 7, a date that seems to have been chosen either at random or because it fits your narrative, not because it makes any sense.

[Vattel]

54. lol, I knew you were going to say that

[onenote]

55. Did you know I would edit my post to provide you with a further explanation?

[Vattel]

56. The further explanation doesn't help. I think you may have missed original my point.

[onenote]

57. I'm certainly open to understanding it better. Let's start with why you picked May 7

as the point of comparison?

[Vattel]

59. I picked May 7 to prove that Clinton stayed in the race for another month even when,

in terms of pledged delegates, she was in a more hopeless situation than Sanders is today. What this means is that it would be hypocritical for Clinton to say that Sanders should have already dropped out (and to her credit she has not said that). I am glad Sanders has not quit yet. His supporters wanted him to stay in, they would have been demoralized had he already dropped out, and I think it is better for the revolution that he has not dropped out yet. Also, he has continued to get a lot of people to register, most of whom will probably vote for Clinton in the general.

Of course, after the last primary contest, Clinton will have acquired a majority of the total pledged delegates, and then Sanders will be in a situation similar to the one that Clinton was in after the last primary contest in 2008. I suspect that, like Clinton, he will call it quits at that time, but I could be wrong. And it is certainly no violation of any rule for him to wait for the actual convention vote before he stops contesting her nomination. I would recommend against that, but maybe I am missing some reason why he should stay in the race all the way to the convention. I doubt that the reason is that Clinton might be indicted because I am sure Bernie realizes that the probability of that is very small.

[onenote]

64. thanks. I think we're actually in agreement.

[Alfresco]

30. Kicked & Rec'd

[NCTraveler]

31. The hypocrisy and inconsistency is staggering. Nt

[LexVegas]

34. HRC is a woman. nt

[workinclasszero]

49. Bingo

Its a fragile male ego thing.

[Orsino]

36. Sanders is fighting for much more, is doing it as a relative outsider, and is still a candidate.

He's also decided that the best leverage is to arrive at the convention with as many delegates as he can. I couldn't say for sure whether this is necessarily the "best" way to get as many concessions as he can, but he's also betting on Hillary Clinton's not being a petulant child, and on her documented history of compromise. Seems safe enough.

The revenge fantasies I've seen posted are stupid.

[Lord Magus]

43. Fighting for much more?

I'm really not seeing how his candidacy is "more" than Barack Obama's or Hillary Clinton's was in 08. And if he's wanting the best leverage he can get, well at some point continuing to fight no longer gives him more leverage and instead takes it away. Trying to win as many delegates as possible during the actual primaries & caucuses is one thing. But continuing to "fight" after every vote has been cast insisting the Democratic Party isn't allowed to go into general election footing until after the convention would forfeit the leverage that he's won.

If he's demanding to still be seen as a candidate for the nomination on July 27, Bernie is more likely to be shut out of the convention entirely than to be given a substantial role in it. The DNC isn't going to allow a floor speech that calls for superdelegates to give the nomination to the 2nd place finisher. If that is actually what Bernie has in mind (and I hope to God it isn't), he'll be throwing away every bit of leverage he's won. He's already been given an unprecedented level of influence over the convention by getting to select some of the rules and platform committee members. That's far more than Hillary got in 08, and she came much closer than Bernie is this year. But in the end the 2nd place candidate doesn't get to dictate the agenda. That doesn't mean getting completely shut out of course, but depending on what course Bernie takes from June 15 onward the DNC could be forced to do that.

[Orsino]

47. More change, and more better change.

Our candidates' agendas are more distinct this cycle.

[Lord Magus]

48. That doesn't entitle Bernie to run the show even after losing the primaries though.

The winner decides the agenda, that's how democracy works.

[Orsino]

50. The party works differently.

The platform will be a compromise, and a Cabinet appointment wouldn't surprise me.

The candidates' agendas in '08 weren't distinct, so the platform wasn't a huge compromise.

[mcar]

39. Did he evolve or is this a self-serving flip-flop?

[geek tragedy]

42. Hnmmm. nt

[aikoaiko]

44. Bernie plans on supporting Hillary if she is the nominee.

As a Senator he made that decision in the 2008 primary when he did just as other politicians have decided to start working on HRC's behalf in for the GE.

I don't recall seeing anything where Bernie demanded that HRC concede, do you?

[geek tragedy]

45. he also planned on running a positive, issues-based campaign

now he's attacking her over the Clinton Foundation and trying to collect the scalps of liberal Democratic leaders like Dan Malloy and Barney Frank out of pique.

His word doesn't mean very much.

[aikoaiko]

46. Hardly an attack. He was asked a question and he responded fairly.

He called the taking of money by the Clinton Foundation from countries like Saudi Arabia a conflict of interest while she was dealing with them as SOS.

If that is an attack, it is the most mild and reasonable one ever.

I'm not sure what Bernie said about Dan Malloy, but I've not been impressed with Barney Frank since joining the board of a bank. I can't help but wonder if Barney's unprovoked vitriol toward Bernie was due to his new allegiance to a bank.

[beachbum bob]

51. bernie being a hypocrite? Not any news.....its all about his ego now

verifies a small man who can't handle the big stage

[hellofromreddit]

60. You sure you want to play that game? Gay marriage, 2008, go.

[geek tragedy]

62. public policy vs basic math, go nt

[Bill USA]

61. Uh-oh, too late to bite your tongue, Bernie.

[Maru Kitteh]

63. K&R