PR cut polling places at Sanders request

[BainsBane]

Now they cry foul after they insisted the polling places be decreased because they didn't have enough staff for the existing ones. So much for wanting people to vote.

The commonwealth initially had 1,510 polling locations. But it announced last month that the number of polling locations would be cut to 455 for the Sunday primary.
Robert Prats, president of the Democratic Party on the island, said the 455 locations are four times more than the number of polling locations open in the Republican primary in March.

Supporters of Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders were up in arms over the cuts, with supporters tweeting about the change. A "Sanders for President" reddit page also called the reduction "about as bad as Arizona" and dozens of Sanders supporters voiced concerns about the cuts on the page.

But the local party told MSNBC that the Sanders campaign had requested fewer stations.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/282285-puerto-rico-long-lines-polling-stations

[AzDar]

1. You should stop posting lies...that you have to resort to that says a lot, though.

[MFM008]

12. Thats what wass reported on CNN and MSNBC

We were watching when Tweety and the panel was talking to election people in Puerto Rico.

[Vinca]

55. Doesn't make sense and you shouldn't have taken it as gospel.

Bernie always says - always - the bigger the turnout, the better he does. And it's true. Restricting polling places would diminish the overall vote because people wouldn't bother if they have to wait in line for hours. After reading this whole thread it seems this entire brouhaha is more made up than fact. I don't know why Hillary supporters are acting so desperate when the numbers are heavily in her favor.

[tonyt53]

76. Denial is not just a river in Africa.

[Vinca]

78. Apparently the claim has been debunked already so enjoy your voyage.

[puffy socks]

77. Sanders largely off-base in saying he wins when voter turnout is high and loses when it's low

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/19/bernie-s/sanders-largely-base-saying-we-win-when-voter-turn/



plus Washington had a caucus which Bernie won..and when they held the primaries Hillary won by a considerable margin.


An Awkward Reality in the Democratic Primary. Washington voters handed Hillary Clinton a primary win, symbolically reversing the result of the state caucus where Bernie Sanders prevailed.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/washington-primary-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton/484313/

[BainsBane]

23. This is a story from the Hill

a respected news publication. If you have any evidence that it isn't true, feel free to provide it.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

2. Not true

[Rosa Luxemburg]

4. in fact how about locking the thread?

[grasswire]

3. debunked already

Swiftboating.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Feel free to use post 5

and I did not even use the campaign.

[BainsBane]

26. Answer this:

The announcement of polling places was made sometime ago. Yet the Sanders campaign didn't complain until this weekend. Why not complain after the announcement was made when something could still be done about it?

At the very least, the complaints by the Sanders campaign are a transparent effort to deligtimize the votes of Puerto Ricans because they failed to vote for Sanders. What Sanders and his remaining supporters have trouble understanding, is that voting rights do not extend only to votes for Bernie but they in fact mean citizens have the right to vote for whomever they chose.

[Silver_Witch]

29. Why didn't Hillary complain...she is the hero of the common man - Right?

Yet she said nothing. And you fault Bernie for not complaining soon enough after posting a completely false story.

[BainsBane]

31. She's not the one alleging fraud now

because of those closings. Bernie is.

[MinnesotaRob]

32. Unfortunately, that won't stop the media from running this all day tomorrow...

That was the whole point, after all. Maybe if we're lucky they'll quietly offer an insincere "correction" after voting is done on Tuesday.

[grasswire]

37. yeah, the media is still talking about the riot in Nevada with..

..the chairs in the air.

Classic swiftboating.

[grasswire]

39. and welcome to DU

[yardwork]

47. Where is it debunked?

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Here

univision, they still do news, and Poltico shut that one down so fast it is not even funny.

Sander’s campaign is accusing Puerto Rico’s Democratic Party officials of fraud in the territory’s presidential primary.

The campaign’s head of Hispanic voter efforts, Betsy Franceschini, told Caribbean Business in an interview that Sanders officials were initially denied access to prisons to help inmates vote.

“Our Bernie Sanders officials were never certified. We had 40 officials we submitted in time for the prisons. Not one of them was certified, while all of theirs went in. Attorney Manny Suárez had to go in order for us to be let in. This is a great fraud,” Franceschini said.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...cials-of-fraud

and...

La situación, alegaron funcionarios electorales, se produjo porque en un principio se habían destinado 1,510 centros de votación, pero este domingo sólo hubo 455 disponibles. Contrario a las primarias locales, para las demócratas no se utilizaron las máquinas electrónicas, sino que se utilizó el proceso anterior, que conlleva el escrutinio manual.

http://www.univision.com/nueva-york/...en-puerto-rico

Manual count means campaign observers, who do think certifies those? Read the politico line, This is gobsmacking familiar, like oh Guanajuato in 2014... ah PRI level practices, or Chicago Machine, your choice.

[Sheepshank]

17. Posting only one small parsed portion of the certification story....biased reporting

Tsk tsk

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. I gave you the link, both of them actually

you can go and read them.

I posted the relevant section that to me sounds extremely familiar from where I grew up. It is a very old trick. tsk, tsk. If I had not given you links that would be biased. So you can go read it. Go ahead. Go, there are three other stories on the website, at least,

And in fact here you go

http://www.univision.com/noticias/elecciones-2016/hillary-clinton-proclama-su-victoria-en-las-primarias-de-puerto-rico

http://www.univision.com/nueva-york/wxtv/noticias/primarias-puerto-rico/un-reto-poder-votar-en-la-primaria-del-partido-democrata-en-puerto-rico

http://www.univision.com/noticias/elecciones-2016/puerto-rico-acude-a-unas-primarias-marcadas-por-la-peor-crisis-de-su-historia

[BainsBane]

44. the sanders rep I'm supposed to "find"

is who you quoted in your response upthread.

The story about the poll closing is developing.

The absence of reporting on a story doesn't mean something didn't happened. That entire argument is absurd.
Now I do now know whether they stole ballot boxes. I only know that the Hill reports that the Chairman of the Democratic Party of Puerto Rico says they did.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. The univison story has no sanders rep but they do have the party one

El conteo manual de los votos ha retrasado la entrega de resultados por parte de la Comisión Estatal de Elecciones. Los colegios electorales cerraron a las 3:00 de la tarde. Roberto Pratts, presidente local del Partido Demócrata, advirtió que debido a amplia participación del electorado, los resultados finales se conocerían cerca de las 9:00 de la noche, meta que no se concretó.

Oh and by the way, I now this is going to blow your mind, but according to Robert Pratts, there was extremely good turnout. He is the president of the party.

http://www.univision.com/noticias/elecciones-2016/hillary-clinton-proclama-su-victoria-en-las-primarias-de-puerto-rico

So we do not have turnout, but we have good turnout. I know it is frustrating to you, but this shit is not flying, It is smelly, as can be.

there is more

La situación, alegaron funcionarios electorales, se produjo porque en un principio se habían destinado 1,510 centros de votación, pero este domingo sólo hubo 455 disponibles. Contrario a las primarias locales, para las demócratas no se utilizaron las máquinas electrónicas, sino que se utilizó el proceso anterior, que conlleva el escrutinio manual.

http://www.univision.com/nueva-york/wxtv/noticias/primarias-puerto-rico/un-reto-poder-votar-en-la-primaria-del-partido-democrata-en-puerto-rico




The problem with the closing of the precincts, was up to electoral officials. Moreover, this was, once again a manual vote. These requires an observer, Who, once again, certifies these idiots, for both campaigns? YOU might want to ask Mr, Pratts.

Oh and it gets better, they are trusting you do not go read the local papers. EEWW it is in a foreign language. Guess why it was a manual count? The PArTY, yes Mr. Pratts made that decision, did not buy those machines, which would have made the process much faster, and perhaps facilitated things

El presidente del Partido Demócrata en Puerto Rico, Roberto Prats, explicó que la Comisión Estatal de Elecciones determinó no comprar máquinas de escrutinio electrónico para la primaria presidencial demócrata por razones económicas.

“Nosotros estamos operando una primaria presidencial dentro de una realidad fiscal en Puerto Rico con recursos bien limitados... No era económicamente viable (comprar máquinas adicionales), pero yo creo que, después de la experiencia de hoy, todo el andamiaje electoral en Puerto Rico tiene que migrar a una plataforma digital”, manifestó tras el cierre de los colegios electorales.

http://www.elnuevodia.com/noticias/politica/nota/clintonganalaprimariapresidencialdemocrataenpuertorico-2207162/

So the story you have from the papers in CONUS is a tad different. The only reason I am bothering with this, is that the use of propaganda and media narratives, really pisses me off. It is an ethics thing.

[BainsBane]

24. The Sanders representative making claims

is not debunking.

I know you believe just because someone says something you believe it makes it incontrovertible truth, but that is not how evidence is established. We have a claim from the Sanders representative and another from the Chair of the Democratic Party of Puerto Rico.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Alas do find a sanders representative

especially in the Univision story from today, or the other two they ran... and no missing boxes either. Yes this is old tactics, very familiar and smelly, You will believe what you will believe, We crossed the point of no return. No election in the US can be considered legitimate anymore, And you can thank the shenanigans that both parties engage in. This started in 2000... it is accelerating.

Oh and in November, when the Rs do the same shit, don't expect me to do more than just ignore you. I care about election integrity, but not about parties. And I am not the only expecting election rigging on a mass scale.

Oh and last point, it has now been normalized.

[BainsBane]

36. Try to focus on the subject of the thread

This one is about closing polling places. The NY Times, the Inquisitor, and other publications are reporting the same thing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. They were closed that is not in dispute

and the local media is blaming this on a lack of certified observers for a MANUAL vote count, Who certifies the observers? It is not Sanders, or for that matter Clinton, trust me.

So this is FUD at this point, and it is amazing that you spreading this shit. The process was quite a mess, it was not an accident,

You might also know, perhaps not that there is an election on Tuesday in CA. This is party about that. So I wonder what wonderful stuff will emerge from CA.

On and Inquisitor is a good source. I thought that one was in the verbotten list.

[Lord Magus]

52. More like "No election in the US can be considered legitimate anymore" unless Bernie wins it.

Because the only primary results anybody questions are the ones where he lost. The reality is that Bernie getting fewer votes than Hillary is not a shenanigan. Integrity is not defined by his victory.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. I guess you are right, after all we both know

Bernie Sanders was on the PRESIDENTIAL ballot in both 2000 and 2004.

Now both parties have normalized the crap, Congrats.

You go argue that we indeed have no issues... but of course as long as Republcians do it, you are fine with it. Becuase then you can throw it in their faces, but when your own do it, well then

As the former President of Mexico used to say, he did run on that by the way, We are all part of the corrupcion, la corrupcion somos todos.

So I guess I missed my opportunity TWICE to vote for President Sanders, one in 2000, the other in 2004... ah that rewriting of history, But when both parties do it, of course it is a big conspiracy. The PRI does the same thing when the PAN does it and the other way around. This is how democracies in trouble act.

And I expect this to go absolutely whoosh over your head.

[Lord Magus]

69. Both parties AREN'T doing it. -nt-

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. And that is where we fully and truly disagree

and has butkis to do with Sanders... either you care for integrity all the time, or you don't. What happened yesterday in Puerto Rico, por ejemplo, is well documented in the local press, It was not Sanders. All those decisions, including NOT buying machines (good for them to a point) and closing precincts, were made by the PR democratic party.

It is extremely well documented in the LOCAL press.

Again, using Mexico, of course the other side does it! (TM)

So you will excuse me while I care about integrity and truly, do not care who gets hurt if we have clean elections. That is the only way you have legitimate elections, Yes, tomorrow I will waste an hour or more of my time. Turnout is expected to be that high, filling a ballot that I do not expect to be counted the way I cast it. Who I support, whoever the hell the central tabulator decided I did.

Again, I expect this to go whoossh over your heard.

[MinnesotaRob]

33. Which story sounds more plausible?

Do you honestly believe that a candidate can simply ask for 75% of polls be closed in an election that he is competing in? If this were true, why do Republicans bother with voter id laws and voter roll purges?

I suspect I know what your answer is already, I just don't know if you honestly believe it.

[BainsBane]

40. This is what other sources are reporting

Puerto Ricans vote by hand. That means the ballots are counted by hand, so that a representative from both campaigns need to be there to monitor the voting.

Here are some additional sources:

http://www.inquisitr.com/3173097/did-bernie-sanders-suppress-voting-in-puerto-rico-officials-accuse-sanders-campaign-of-requesting-drastic-cut-in-polling-places-leading-to-long-lines/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/6/5/1534884/-Breaking-Bernie-and-the-Puerto-Rico-voting-mess

Nate Cohen from the NYTimes has tweeted about it, which would indicate the Times will be posting an article.

https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Those sources also reported chairs flying in Nevada

this is the creation of a media narrative.

This will be the caribbean chair flying. It took what, 48 hours for that narrative to fall apart?

[Bluenorthwest]

56. Ah the folks who brought us "Bernie Sanders Civil Rights Campaign Photo .....Not Bernie?'

Yes, same folks that spread that manure you present today as bastions of truth to smear a Democratic candidate.

This thread is a knock out in context of later events:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251798460#post27

Even more fascinating is the thread that exposed that lie. Your posts in that thread are a demonstration of your agenda and ethics:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511407446#post6

[JimDandy]

6. Stop posting this lie. Sanders campaign released a statement saying this was completely false.

The Clinton Campaigns F--lying Circus of Flying Chairs...

[yardwork]

48. I need more than Sanders say-so at this point.

[SpareribSP]

53. Oh hey, a conspiracy theory about election fraud

[Mona]

7. a more complete picture can be found at this link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512134416

[azurnoir]

9. are folks really swallowing Puerto Rico closing 2/3 of it's polling place @ Bernie's demand?

[Cheese Sandwich]

10. Nobody actually believes that. They are boldly lying and they don't care.

[BainsBane]

11. Show us something that says otherwise

and by something I mean an actual source, not a tweet.

Do I believe Bernie would do anything to undermine the rights of voters who aren't favorable to him? Abso-fucking-lutely. His entire argument for nomination revolves around doing just that--that superdelegates should overturn the results of elections and install him in power against the will of the electoral majority.

[MFM008]

13. Thats not what was said

It was reported that a couple of polling places were closed at the request of the Sanders campaign due to a lack of people to
oversee those polls. This call came in from The election committee in PR, during Tweetys show.

[peace13]

15. He has such power...and never wants the votes counted!

Works so hard yet wants to suppress the voters. Go figure.

[Sheepshank]

18. Bernie folks are certainly swallowing that Hillary was the cause for the cuts in polling places.

[writes3000]

25. Why would the Hillary campaign want fewer polling places in PR? That makes no sense.

Btw, I also don't believe the Bernie campaign intentionally wanted fewer people to vote either.

[Sheepshank]

63. exactly...that talking point is completely inane. But it doesn't stop BSers.....

...from pressing that point trying to create even more butt hurt among their conspiracy prone group.

[MinnesotaRob]

34. What's unbelievable is that people really believe this.

It's a pretty embarrassing theory to believe, that a candidate can just ask that polls be closed in the very election he is competing in, particularly from a board that is home to allegedly informed, politically active progressives.

[jillan]

35. Bernie has magical powers - his wish is their command.

Must be all those unicorns he owns.

[peace13]

14. Way to go...we expect nothing less.

How the $ell do you fool yourselves over and over and over? I would alert this repeated nonsense but it would produce nothing. The same as your candidate will. Come November I hope you and your peeps realize that you drove this bus to the cliff and floored it. Surprise surprise, the gravity, just like the gravity of this situation was there all along!

[bjo59]

16. Doesn't look good to post what has already been exposed as a lie as though it weren't.

[Sheepshank]

19. No it's not been exposed. All you have is an opposing statement.

No proof what so ever has been provided.

[JimDandy]

30. A statement...from the actual campaign involved!

Do you, or anyone, have any proof that the bizarre claim in that story is true--a contract, a written statement from the Sanders campaign, a recorded phone call, an email, a text... anything?

No? I thought not.

MSNBC has fallen so low in their reporting using stories like this, and sources like the "chairs thrown" reporter Jon Ralston. Their motto is: Spew lies often enough and Clinton, our candidate, will win!

[Sheepshank]

57. And the President of the PR Democratic Party has stated otherwise.

And has provided a written statement is several publications:



https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/739610752470921216

and here:

The commonwealth initially had 1,510 polling locations. But it announced last month that the number of polling locations would be cut to 455 for the Sunday primary.
Robert Prats, president of the Democratic Party on the island, said the 455 locations are four times more than the number of polling locations open in the Republican primary in March.

Supporters of Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders were up in arms over the cuts, with supporters tweeting about the change. A "Sanders for President" reddit page also called the reduction "about as bad as Arizona" and dozens of Sanders supporters voiced concerns about the cuts on the page.

But the local party told MSNBC that the Sanders campaign had requested fewer stations.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/282285-puerto-rico-long-lines-polling-stations

[JimDandy]

60. Lies. Knock it off. Shall we do that to Clinton all over the Net?

Let's see. What can we invent...

See how that works?

"Win at all costs" Does she really want to stick with that as her slogan?

That PR official is a huge Hillary Clinton supporter who is lying to support her. Yay, Clinton supporters!

[Sheepshank]

61. What evidence do you have that what I posted were lies and that I invented them?

I provided links.

Both your statements and my statements are already all over the internet.

[JimDandy]

64. Evidence is not the lying statement of a corrupt partisan hack

who in his neutral role as Party official sent a tweet right before the election BEGGING Clinton fans in PR to volunteer as poll watchers. Clinton had so few enthusiastic supporters that PR closed more than 1000 polling stations because she couldn't get poll watchers for them.

That lying Clinton supporter hasn't produced a single document to support his lying statement--no contract, email, letter, text, voice mail, recorded conversation...nothing to verify his statement. He didn't because there is none.

Lovely company Clinton keeps...

You are the only one mentioning that you "invented" this lie. Nice strawman...

Good to know you all have Nooooo problem with deliberately spreading lies, though...

[Sheepshank]

65. Bernie Campaign Statement is neutral? Now that's a fucking joke

and yes, you did state that I invented:

read you own words:

Lies. Knock it off. Shall we do that to Clinton all over the Net?

Let's see. What can we invent...

See how that works?

If you meant to say something different, you could have been clearer.

[JimDandy]

70. I was very clear that it was the lying official who invented the lie

and you were spreading it. No one on all of DU thought you invented that lie. You just put up his lying statement, so this is an utterly disingenuous assertion of yours. Wow you just don't stop with the BS, do you?

[Bluenorthwest]

51. Read and Learn....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/05/puerto-rico-democratic-primary-debt-crisis

[Sheepshank]

59. Yet the Bernie crowd wants to blame Hillary camp.....make up you collective fucking minds.

[Bluenorthwest]

54. Posting this again just demonstrates again that those pushing it were not paying attention to

events in Puerto Rico over the last month. I assume MSNBC was too busy reporting that chairs not thrown were thrown and that photos of Bernie Sanders are not really photos of Bernie Sanders.

They lie at MSNBC. They lie for pay.

[Sheepshank]

58. And clarified in post #57

opposing statement and published info.

Bernie campaign has been so inefficient, so wrong at so many turns, i am having ah hard time believing that they didn't screw this one up too.

So tell me how cutting polling places in predominantly Hillary friendly, high population, urban areas hurt Bernie?

What a bunch of horse shit come from the Bernie camp.

[JimDandy]

66. You have ZERO proof- no evidence what so ever

that what that partisan hack said is true. He made an affirmative statement and didn't provide any documentation to prove a thing he said. It is encumbent on the accuser making the affirmative statement to prove it. He didn't. An accusee, Sanders in this case, can't document a negative.

So based on your actions, every time Clinton says that a statement about her is a lie and provides no evidence that it is, her opponents are free to keep asserting what she said is a lie.

Got it!

[Sheepshank]

71. You have no proof. Bernie camp has fucked up & tried to cover up campaign screw ups at every turn...

....by crying foul and trying to divert attention. The data theft is a great example of that diversion after screwing up, as is failing to register in certain states and then complaining, failing to understand Venue requirements at the Greek and then complaining that Bernie was screwed over, failing to understand Dem Primary election rules and claiming irregularities in counts, SD's etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Of course those with the attention span of a gnat may not have noticed.

[JimDandy]

73. I just feel pity for you now, since you can't grasp the concept of *can't prove a negative*

Bye...

[Live and Learn]

20. Utterly ridiculous claim. nt

[BainsBane]

22. Interesting how none of you think you need to provide

sources for your claims. That you believe something is supposed to be enough. Well, it isn't.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. I did, from local media

no less

[Bluenorthwest]

50. The direct sources are in Spanish, I posted them yesterday and got silencio from you and

and the rest of Camp Clinton pushing this latest contrived fiction. 'That's not Bernie in those photos'. Same lot pushed that lie. They should apologize to the community and to those of us they lied to. That's what ethical humans would do.

[Hiraeth]

62. Thank you. I thought this had been de-bunked yesterday.

[Bluenorthwest]

75. Funny how when we post them you fall silent and vanish.

What a cheap burlesque this work of yours is.

[AgingAmerican]

27. No they didn't and nobody believes you

Even your fellow supporters don't fall for this nonsense.

[jillan]

38. The fact that you cannot see how ridiculous this is is astounding.

Everyone is laughing at this, how can you not see how funny this is? Bernie has no control over what they do in PR.

[Scuba]

46. You may want to delete this post as it's been proven a lie.

Otherwise some of the more cynical DU members might conclude that you're full of shit.

[Bluenorthwest]

49. The Guardian on Sunday: Puerto Rico's Democratic primary reflects debt crisis engulfing island

To cut costs, voting was scheduled for the same day as local elections. In April, as the elections commission and treasury department tussled over the $3m tab of printing and counting papers, the ballot was at risk of not happening at all.

Now, further austerity cuts have slashed polling stations to fewer than one-third of the 1,115 sites originally announced last month, sparking accusations from supporters of Bernie Sanders of voter suppression.

But party leaders in the US territory insist the decision to reduce polling stations to 432 was a simple matter of resources, based on the island electoral commission’s inability to fund and handle the extra workload of simultaneous local elections at so many sites. “We’re providing four times the number of polling stations that the Republicans had for their primary in March, and given the number of sites, all Democrats who want to participate will have the opportunity,” Roberto Prats, chairman of Puerto Rico’s Democratic party, told the Guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/05/puerto-rico-democratic-primary-debt-crisis

Since May 5 when they started making these cuts, it has been the Democratic Party doing the cuts and defending them.

Also, that was Bernie in those photos by Danny Lyon and no chairs or bottles were thrown in Vegas and Reagan was not an AIDS activist.
Also, habitual mendacity is toxic shit.

[workinclasszero]

68. RIGGED!

Hillary could have gone over the threshold last night without the Sanders campaign shenanigans!

[Bluenorthwest]

74. I came back to see what you and your Team of Glory had to say about the Guardian article

And I see you could not muster a response at all but left your OP to hang as a sort of flag of Clintonian Ethics.