2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIn California, we registered thousands and thousands of first-time voters who support Bernie.
And now the Associated Press counts the super delegates to decide that Hillary has already won.
I remember how I felt as a young woman in 1963, just married a few months before the Kennedy assassination.
There is a sense of hope that is taken when a political leader who is loved by the young is taken before it is time.
That is what the AP has done: taken away the hope of a generation of California voters before it is time.
Shame on them.
Shame on the AP.
Hillary is not the nominee until the convention.
Is Hillary's desire to win at all cost so great that she is willing to squelch the enthusiasm of so many young, first-time voters?
I think this will drastically depress support for Hilary in November.
Yet another reason to be cynical and to give up. That is what this will mean to many, many young Californians who will cast their first votes tomorrow.
The cynicism of our party politics and our press is beyond understanding.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)November? Probably not.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)You don't speak for other voters. Stop trying to lose the November election. Stop manufacturing things to be outraged about.
News organizations called the election tonight.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)up this election, what a shame our elections have become.
If you want to cheer the shrinking middle class while politicians seek and are beholden to the millionaire/billionaire class that is your choice.
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Logic fail.
Not speak for other? Silly statement. Everyone on this board, and in real life, undoubtedly speaks for others frequently, rightfully or not. If I didn't mind wasting my time, I bet I could quickly find posts of you doing that yourself.
No one has to manufacture things to be outraged about over Hillary's campaign. Her campaign has copyrighted the term "outrageous" to describe their behavior.
Anyone who believes a news organization called the election without at least the tacit approval, and more likely the explicit approval, of the Clinton campaign needs to just ride off into the sunset on one of those "unicorns that farts glitter" that you post about.
LenaBaby61
(6,965 posts)You are. No problem
JohnnyRingo
(18,580 posts)I think I'll litter everywhere except my neighborhood since that's the only place I have to look at. Maybe I should only serve on juries that decide pot cases or I can stop paying taxes for prisons.
I work the election polls as a Democrat every year and I would not have refused this fall if Bernie had won. In fact, I've never quit in ten years because I didn't like who was on the ballot, and I'll never stop voting, or vote for a losing spoiler.
I hope your sense of maturity overcomes your sense of entitlement by November.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)liberal from boston
(856 posts)Did any other media call for Hillary besides AP & MSNBC?? Did CNN, NPR, CBS also call for Hillary??
IMHO, a poll showed Bernie pulling ahead of Hillary in California.
http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/06/03/new-usc-poll-shows-senator-bernie-sanders-suddenly-ahead-of-clinton-in-california/
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)way ahead in my area of Southern California. But that is a limited sample of the vote.
You have to understand. In many families, a child between 18 and 22 is voting for the very first time not just in that child's life but in the family's history in the US in a presidential election/primary. That is an exciting moment, a meaningful moment.
And the AP just diminished the joy and importance of that moment.
The press in our country is a big problem. I strongly believe in a free press. But AP abused its power tonight. Hillary still does not have enough pledged delegates to win at the convention in July. This announcement was not about anything really new. She has been ahead if you count her super delegates for quite some time. It is a psychological ploy, a typical Clinton ploy.
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)state you call home doesn't really matter to me either.
It's each person being able to vote that matters. And calling the election before California, I believe the largest state in the Union, has voted, is voter disenfranchisement in a big way.
I'm thinking that our primary process needs to be rethought.
liberal from boston
(856 posts)I agree. I find it strange that AP & NBC called Hillary the Presumptive Democratic nominee but CNN, CBS, NPR. etc. did not. IMHO, it was done to suppress the vote in California. New poll shows Bernie pulling ahead of Hillary.
http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/06/03/new-usc-poll-shows-senator-bernie-sanders-suddenly-ahead-of-clinton-in-california/
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,110 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
Peregrine Took
(7,408 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)then maybe you think it is OK that the press called the result of the vote before you got your first vote of your life in the ballot box (figuratively speaking).
But if you saw the light shining in the eyes of the many first-time voters anywhere from 18-22, the excitement, the joy at the thought of doing something meaningful, something only adults can do, then you would understand that whether they can vote is not the question. It's the meaningfulness not just to them but to society of their first vote that has been taken from them.
Only the very sickly jaded cannot understand this.
And certainly, that describes Hillary to a tee. Sickly jaded.
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)too stupid to vote in the 2017 midterms which is where we really need people to show up.
This is not about their feels. This is about REAL policy differences between the people's party (DEMS) and the party of hate (Republicans)
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)underthematrix
(5,811 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)supposed to be able to request a Democratic ballot and vote in the Democratic primary. The poll workers in the two polling places I visited and worked in, however, were giving the decline to state voters PROVISIONAL BALLOTS which will not be counted for 21 days.
It was a travesty. So many of the young people registered decline to state even though we explained to them that they should register Democratic to avoid difficulty.
Another problem at the polls was the absence of many, many names of first-time and newly registered including those registered with a new party affiliation on the voting lists.
As I discussed with one of the poll workers (it wasn't altogether their faults because they were trained I believe improperly to do what they were doing), we are in the 21st century. We have voting machines. The voter lists in my area of California, however, are print-outs. Print-outs in tiny print on sheets that resemble dot matrix sheets. It's unbelievably 20th century. Very outdated.
People who registered on-line were among those missing from the voter rolls at the polls. They were clearly registered on-line and on the on-line list of registered voters. The voting lists just weren't updated fast enough.
This was the case in Seattle, Wash. in the 2004 campaign but Democrats caught it soon enough.
Here in California, the Democratic Party, may have been, I suspect complicit in the failure of the voting process.
I think the Hillary campaign and the Democratic Party hierarchy has been in complete denial about the popularity of Bernie in California. Of course, I base that on the small sample of voters in my area and in the colleges, so I could be wrong.
But the voting today was the typical Hillary-primary mess. Just a mess. The poll workers are just ordinary people, well meaning, but in way over their heads.
msongs
(67,193 posts)as many politicians have learned registering people to vote does not mean they will vote
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)And if any of them realistically had hope, they were not following the news very closely.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)out have forgotten what it is to have ideals, to really want a better world and to have a candidate that you believe can work toward that better world.
So far, in my canvassing, the young people I talk to are all wanting to vote for Bernie.
The Hillary voters are mostly matronly women over 50. Now I am a matronly woman over 50, well over 50 and very matronly. But I have grandchildren and daughters I care about, and I strongly believe that the world that Bernie wants to build is the world in which my children and grandchildren will thrive while the world that Hillary threatens to bring if elected is dark, sinister and scary.
Hillary's incrementalism will not ameliorate much less solve the climate change problem. Her views on funding college education are backward and will not solve the problem of excessive student debt especially these days in which graduate degrees are for many a necessity and not a choice.
Hillary's talking out of both sides of her mouth at once about reform in the financial sector is also as usual too little too late.
As you can see, I am with the young Californians who support Bernie and not with the fixers and those who gave up on ideals long ago who make up the vast majority of Hillary supporters.
I want my children and my grandchildren to live in a harmonious society in which all have dignity. I do not believe that Hillary can deliver that or even wants to.
A lot of young people agree with me about that.
This announcement is a typical Hillary ploy. And don't tell me it was just the press that did it. I know better. I've been around a long time.
liberal from boston
(856 posts)Thank You JDPriestly!! Great comment.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)Name of the game with the Clinton campaign strategists. Don't let them get inside your head (says she who is still shaking with anger )
A couple of days ago, I was wondering why all the scrambling over the vote in Puerto Rico (reducing the number of voting places, for one thing, by 1,000 stations). Why would it be important to suppress the vote in PR of all places; I was truly puzzled. Not any more. I guess we know now.
Sam
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)We you and I know how we will or will not be voting in November.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)And the same cabal of corporations owns the party establishments and the media. Democracy is just an illusion.
Skink
(10,122 posts)He is just warming up.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)clinton had no reason to accelerate the announcement by one day or even one week
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)And yes, she had reason to accelerate it because she wanted to depress the extremely enthusiastic and very large support for Bernie especially among the young in California.
Now the California polls have been rigged and possibly depressed by this announcement.
And she thinks that because Trump is such a boogieman she can get by with this.
TwilightZone
(25,342 posts)The AP can count to 2383, unlike seemingly 80% of DU. They did so and declared Clinton the presumptive nominee. Their counts are based on communications with the delegates.
Clinton had nothing to do with it. Continuing to insist that she did just makes you look ridiculous.
Further, insisting that the AP should have sat on the results for 24 hours as some kind of special exemption to Bernie voters is similarly ridiculous. Sitting on the results would have been irresponsible, certainly more irresponsible than counting to 2383 and reporting the facts when they became available.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 7, 2016, 03:42 AM - Edit history (1)
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)in unison, the night before Cali's big vote? If you think that wasn't a setup (and not by the media) then you are dreaming.
You know, every time there has a big vote coming up, Brock has pulled some shit to try to delegitimize Sanders and suppress votes for him. This is just par for the course.
liberal from boston
(856 posts)Really? New poll showed Bernie pulling ahead of Hillary in California. If Bernie wins California it will be big.
http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/06/03/new-usc-poll-shows-senator-bernie-sanders-suddenly-ahead-of-clinton-in-california/
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)it was evident from the beginning.
Scheduling the first Dem debate two months after the Repubs and after NY voters had to chance to switch their party affiliation, three million independent voters in NY could not vote in NY and many others were told they were no longer registered.
The Democratic party did absolutely nothing to try and engage the younger generation, I know my children are not inspired by the choices. We just all might be busy on election day and the Dems can roll the dice in hopes people will once again for vote the lesser of two evils, but that line and false choice is getting old, many in the younger generation know that as well.
If Trump wins, the Dems need to take a hard look in the mirror.
Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)maimed and killed by our interventions, we like those cluster bombs, not to mention the soldiers we send into harms way and the blind eye we turn towards the shrinking middle class in our country.
Are those the people you cry for?
Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)We are only good for bullet fodder and the occasional vote . Other than that we are on our own , the DNC has made that abundantly clear .
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)my Dad was a very proud Marine in WW2, but he understood more clearly years later and offered to take my cousins across the border to avoid the draft in Vietnam.
Guess he finally learned that 'war is a racket.'
onecaliberal
(32,471 posts)Else.
onenote
(42,373 posts)and those votes helped get her a big lead in pledged delegates that Bernie wants to override by getting SDs to support him.
I guess Sanders doesn't care about first time (or many time) voters -- at least not when they don't vote for him.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)This announcement was aimed to cheat California voters, not voters in the earlier states.
onenote
(42,373 posts)How, exactly does it cheat them? If they choose not to go to the polls, its on them. Just as it would have been on anyone who would have chosen not to go to the polls in California after New Jersey put Clinton over the top without the announcement of new SDs.
Sanders has exactly the same chance of preventing Clinton from getting a majority of the pledged delegates tomorrow as he did before tonight's announcement. Wasn't that the goal? Or was it just to lose by a smaller amount?
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Apparently she has been also talking to super delegates about just when they would confirm their support for her.
Anything can happen.
Hillary is a very weak candidate. She can hardly speak without a teleprompter. She reads her speeches. Her positive ratings in the polls are very low compared to Bernie's.
She does not strike people as being authentic or honest. She has so many problems.
Anything can happen in this election.
But strongly encouraging the media to announce that she had won (when she knows very well that she has not won until the convention says she has won) the evening before the California election is very, very Hillary and one of the reasons people don't trust her.
onenote
(42,373 posts)Sanders' strategy hasn't changed because of the announcement. His strategy going into today was to try to win CA and other states, cut into Clinton's pledged delegate margin, and using those outcomes plus GE polls try to convince SDs to switch to him from Clinton over the next month or so.
That is still the strategy he announced last night. But a number of his supporters now are proclaiming that California has been rendered meaningless and that his supporters will stay home. But those supporters should have exactly the same incentive to get out and vote today that they would have had if no announcement was made last night -- Sanders needs a good showing in California just as much today as was the case yesterday.
Why are so many of his supporters declaring defeat when he is going forward with the same strategy in essentially the same circumstances as would be the case had no announcement been made? Low information voters? Fairweather voters? Poor GOTV communications?
If Sanders' voters don't come out to vote today, it's on them and no one else. They are needed the same today as would have been the case had there been no announcement yesterday.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It was incredible. I was wearing a Bernie tee shirt and horns were honking and people were yelling Bernie. I'm 73 so it wasn't my beautiful self that was attracting the attention. People stopped their cars and thanked me for being out canvassing. I've done a lot of canvassing and hanging reminders on door knobs in my life. I never experienced anything like today in my neighborhood. Amazing and beautiful
But the election results will not be fully counted for another 21 days because a lot of voters (many Bernie voters I strongly suspect) were given provisional ballots that will not be counted for 21 days.
The frequency with which the provisional ballots were handed out looked very suspicious to me.
I'm hoping it was not blatant voter fraud.
Apparently many names of newly registered voters were not on the polls in the precinct I observed. And decline-to-state registered voters were being given the provisional ballots although they had the right to Democratic ballots as I understand it.
The mess at the polls in a state governed by Democrats and a County led by Democrats makes me want to vote for Hillary even less than before.
lostnfound
(16,138 posts)Maybe her descendants too.
This has all been disgusting.
U.S. Politics is a rotting putrid mess.
brooklynite
(93,834 posts)Why don't you just tell them Super Delegates don't count?
Or not to trust the "corporate media"?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Were you ever young?
Sure they'll have to face disappointment, But they are smart enough to see the difference between an honest loss and a rigged corrupt system that favors the already wealthy and ;powerful at the expense of everyone else.
For decades, voters of all ages and ideologies have felt like the system has become stangnant and corrupt.
And this kind of crap makes younger people follow the same cynical path.
lancer78
(1,495 posts)need to come out when it counts, which IS NOT a Presidential primary.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Kamala Harris is running against 34 people, and in Nov there will be a huge amount of props.
onenote
(42,373 posts)than expected feels like the assassination of JFK to you?
Wow. Just wow and wow and wow.
Txbluedog
(1,128 posts)onenote
(42,373 posts)Leaves me pretty much speechless.
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)So every Dem. in those 6 states needs to get out and vote!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Hillary's campaign. No way will I ever believe that.
It's a typical Clinton ploy.
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)But it's in her best interest for there to be a big turnout tomorrow.
BzaDem
(11,142 posts)Usually candidates win months before the last voting takes place. In this case, it has been known that Bernie couldn't really win since March (though it makes sense the AP didn't call it then).
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)primary (and it is only true as long as Hillary holds onto her super delegates)?
Because Bernie is going to win or would win big tomorrow had they not made this announcement tonight.
And then Hillary complains about the demonstrations at her speeches.
Wonder why they occur?
I think this gesture tonight is going to make it all the more difficult for many Bernie voters to vote for Hillary.
And don't say Hillary had nothing to do with it. There is no way on this earth that AP would have announced this without checking with the Hillary campaign.
Hillary's poll numbers in California must be disastrous.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)is a conspiracy
PepperHarlan
(124 posts)I was so annoyed with the media for reporting 9/11 just one day before my birthday.
Shittiest birthday ever.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)petty.
MFM008
(19,774 posts)dont feel to bad.
Retrograde
(10,068 posts)open to all voters - like Senator (the first open CA Senate seat in 24 years!). And we especially need enthusiastic Sanders voters in Red congressional districts to vote for a Democratic candidate who can take on the incumbent in November.
If you think Sanders is the best candidate, show up and vote for him. Show the PTB in the Democratic Party that there is a large group of people who are not happy with the status quo.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Democratic side is so despicable.
Let people vote. Winning and losing is not the whole point.
The AP and, I strongly suspect, the overly eager Hillary campaign were completely wrong to announce this. Next-to-nothing actually changed. This was announced for psychological effect just to put down California liberal Democrats, to put young voters in their place.
Another nasty, mean act by a certain part of the Democratic Party and the establishment.
How hideous.
This only helps Republicans.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: People are trying to claim she's the nominee. They may use the word Presumptive, but they're still not correct. It is a simple fact that she is NOT yet the nominee.
This alert is ridiculous, and one more example of how the Hillarybots are trying to force her on us, long before this is really settled.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I cannot believe someone actually alerted on this. Oh, wait, yeah I can. Leaving it.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Let them vent until the cutoff.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't think the post is remotely alert-worthy let alone hide-worthy. A lot of people here love Bernie, and they are watching any chance that he has of fulfilling their dream slowly slip away. It's hurting them. Let them mourn. You'll get all the pro-Hillary talk you can handle here after June 15th.
Every single jury member voted to leave it alone. That says a LOT about the crap alerts we are all seeing here.
ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)Been voting since '96. If other people aren't interested in anything beyond their Sanders fandom, that's their problem.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)The best thing you all can do is to make sure those voters all get to the polls tomorrow. Their votes for Bernie will now be a loud vote of protest against this betrayal of democracy and the people.
La Lucha Continua!
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)released Bin Laden threats Friday before 2004 election. I think that beat Kerry, and it hurt like hell. But, it was the right thing to do. Withholding news is seldom right thing to do, even if it influences voters to make mistakes.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)andym
(5,441 posts)Why would anyone who likes Bernie let the media run by large corporations dictate his/her vote.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)I'm sorry you feel your hope taken away while others feel a renewed sense of hope.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)If you like fracking, unabated income inequality, neocon wars, secret speeches to bankers, high college tuition, out of control health care costs -- if those things give you hope, by all means vote for Hillary. But not because she's a woman. Jeez.....
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,780 posts)You talk about unabated income equality -- there is no larger income inequality than the gender pay gap.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/hillary-clinton-makes-history-n586906?cid=sm_fb
MFM008
(19,774 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)national economy in the world if a separate nation.
But the rest of the US relegates our primary to one of the final dates of the primary year and thereby makes our votes inconsequential and worth less than, say the votes of people in great states like Rhode Island or Maine.
California, in spite of the large size of its population, is also limited by our Constitution to the same two senators that very small states like Montana and relatively small states like Kansas have. Thus citizens and voters of California as individuals and voters have far less say in the making of the laws and the picking of the presidential candidates than individuals and voters who live in most other states.
This is the reality. It is an extreme injustice to the people of California. We are a huge state and we as citizens of this state are not given by our establishment and traditions, the voice that would make us equal to citizens of other states.
gopiscrap
(23,673 posts)corporate media sucking up to the one who sucks up to the. I have the feeling that Bernie probably was ahead in the internal polls
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)for Hillary.This happened for one reason only: to try to prevent an embarrassing defeat in the most populous state. And you know what? it's going to backfire. Californians aren't stupid. They know a scam when they see one, and this is a beaut.
I think Bernie voters will see right through this and will deliver him a big win in California tomorrow. It's gonna be sweet watching the corporate whores try to explain why the presumptive nominee is getting her ass kicked by her own party. LOL
brooklynite
(93,834 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)The Clinton campaign has pushed literally millions of new voters away from the party. It's sickening
Sancho
(9,065 posts)As an educator (going on 40 years now!), I see this voting age every day. The majority don't register. If more would get involved it would be useful for the Democratic party in the long run.
The AP projection of a winner is nothing. All elections are called early (since the 1950's when Cronkite used to call elections before California polls had closed)!
Among a subset of activists, Bernie has been popular with some of the young, but there are a lot of "invisible" voters (young women, minority single-mothers, new immigrants) who prefer Hillary. They don't have time or resources to attend rallies or a car to hold a bumper sticker.
Hillary will be the nominee this primary. She got the most votes.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The enthusiasm for Bernie was so great that one of the professors came up to us at the Bernie voter registration table and excitedly told us about it.
Wait and see. I'll be interested in the numbers.
The numbers today will not reflect the total number of young people who registered and voted in California.
That is because, try as we did to encourage them to register as Democrats, they often registered as decline to state party affiliation. And today, at the polls (in two that I visited and in which I observed the voting), the poll workers were handing out pink provisional ballots to voters for a number of reasons, some legitimate, also incorrectly as I understand it, to voters who requested a cross-over Democratic ballot but were registered as decline to state party affiliation.
The provisional ballots (and many, many were imposed upon people by the poll workers) will not be counted for 21 days.
Now my area of Los Angeles may be particularly full of Bernie enthusiasts (it was just unbelievable walking down the street in a Bernie shirt in my neighborhood and area today), but the total for Bernie may rise considerably in 21 days when the provisional ballots are counted.
That's my take on it.
IronLionZion
(45,250 posts)for all the new first time voters and renewed hope in liberals everywhere who had been discouraged in past elections. Also to give a powerful voice for democratic socialism and the show the tremendous nation-wide support for liberal policies in rural and urban areas, big and small states.
And currently the Pivit prediction market has Hillary favored to win the general election 80% vs Trump's 20%. Hillary has a much better chance of co-opting at least some of the liberal policies Bernie has championed since it is apparent how popular they are.
ecstatic
(32,566 posts)Nothing you say is credible if you're starting with that premise.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)checking with Hillary's campaign for approval.
Generic Brad
(14,270 posts)So you were on the short end of the stick. I have been there more times than I care to count.
The sun will shine tomorrow. The birds will still sing. The reality is that not everyone agrees with your point of view. Accept and live to fight another day.