2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy does the HRC campaign do self-sabotaging behavior like this?
Last edited Tue Jun 7, 2016, 12:24 AM - Edit history (1)
You guys have to know that it hurts your candidate's chances of unifying the party(something she has to do, because Trump's support is never going to stop growing...fascist movements never lose steam anywhere once they've started) by trying to deny Californians a say in the the process and by engaging in heavy-handed, spiteful, arrogant gloating of the sort we are seeing tonight.
Nothing you are doing here is going to help us in the fall.
Nothing but good has come of Bernie's presence in the race...and the Sanders activists and voters out there need to be made welcome and kept involved in this party. We can't win in the fall if your attitude is "shut up, do what we tell you, know your place and take what you are given". Politics needs to be different than that.
And keeping the left powerless in the party is NOT more important than doing what you should be doing to create a united front. There simply aren't any votes to be gained by the party telling the left, the idealists, and the young to "pound sand and peddle it walking", as the troll once put it.
Nobody is asking you to kiss anyone's ass. No one is asking that Sanders people be treated like "special snowflakes" or any of that crap. Just to show class, magnanimity and creativity.
Just be your best selves.
Or, as someone else put it "Kindness and Love".
lastone
(588 posts)And I highly doubt this bs gets swept under the rug of she ever wants Bernie's (actual progressive) votes to support her.
GoldenThunder
(300 posts)...for all of her tireless efforts towards launching the brand-new Progressive party.
The working class of America thanks you.
DURHAM D
(32,595 posts)Not the campaign.
This does not help Democrats. It is to keep us divided.
FUCK AP !
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Loo slips stink ships.
DURHAM D
(32,595 posts)They call them all of the time but I would like to see the list. NBC seems to have decided to make the call without any information and AP did not share.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)People are putting their careers on the line crossing the Clintons and they know it.
Don't buy it for a minute, the campaign wanted this out for their own purposes.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)CNN called it today too.
But there is something going on behind this. Why tonight, just before the remaining states vote?
LiberalFighter
(50,478 posts)All reports have it that the AP did the research and report.
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)think some pesky little facts will stand in their way of demonizing Hillary? They haven't let facts or math stop them before, and I don't see it happening now. They've made up their own narrative and are living in an alternate reality. Facts, math and reality be damned!
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I'm talking about all the "eff you, Bernie" threads going on here tonight. There's no excuse for any of that.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)None of you have any reason to be ugly about this news.
And you're making it hard for people like me, who are going to be spending the fall(assuming this holds)doing all we can to get young Sanders people not to vote Stein.
It's in your campaign's interest not to be meanspirited tonight. And you should be better people than that.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)to anyone being spiteful and ugly. I haven't seen it at all. Unless you consider acknowledging that she has won the nomination before you are ready to hear that news spiteful and ugly.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)more with every week that goes by. And that includes her immediate, inner-circle honchos, the "party elite".
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Most probably longer than you.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Or still won't, if only you guys can refrain from being heavy-handed.
It's in your interest to reach out to the Sanders people and make it clear that what we have fought for will be part of the fall campaign.
We're the only place you can gain votes from. No Republican will really refuse to vote for Trump in the end, they will all fall in like. So you have nothing to gain from taking a "fuck you, progressives!" stance.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Yes. Some of their issues should be considered and integrated. But I boted for Hillary, not Bernie. I do not want his policies dominating.
adigal
(7,581 posts)They think they will lose their own comfort.
msongs
(67,193 posts)seekthetruth
(504 posts)......she openly stated that she has lost her focus as a progressive and if she adopts every one of Sanders'policies and stances.
If not, she shall not have my vote. It's the hat simple.
To me, anything less is just a prettier version of Trump.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Since you're willing to sell out all the people you claim to stand for and impose President Trump on them.
Very much in the spirit of your avatar, or the murderous movements that have taken his name.
Power to the people! La Luta Continua! El Presidente Trump will make America mas grande de neuvo!
seekthetruth
(504 posts)to the highest bidder. Not saying you, personally, are selling out your values but those who are behind Hillary who are far greater than you or me, in the grand scheme of things, are taking this country into their oligopolistic hands piece by piece. The environment? Still fracking, still sending oil trains through populous areas that have the potential to destroy whole towns. I live right by such a railway (within blocks) and it's not fun thinking that one of the things can explode. With Trump? I get that for a very long time. With Hillary? I get that for a long time. I'd prefer neither. Or perhaps you live in a McMansion and check your iPhone while driving your SUV hoping someone replies to your DU post because at work and in your personal life, you're the center of the world (or "Ah-MAYR-ri-cuh" . You're making assumptions of me, so I'm making one of you.
Perhaps you're not noticing that your rights to work are slowly being eroded away, your country's jobs are being stolen by those at the head of Walmart and other such companies that are destroying our economy for their profit piece by piece. Your candidate's line of thinking has long deep roots in the for-profit prison system in this country. "HER" line of thinking gave us the highest rate of incarceration on the planet. "HER" line of thinking has taken manufacturing out of this country in the aims of making corporations more profitable, and refuses to admit it. "HER" line of thinking has given us the most disastrous war in the history of the country, and all she does is brag about how awesome "Ah-MAYR-ri-cuh" is without admitting that her foreign policy will take us into more debt, more innocent lives lost, and more harm to our society. I watched her "foreign policy" speech, and if you say you're proud of that, you're basically a fascist in a quaint blue color. You need to understand the big picture of history, and understand that Ah-MAYR-ri-cuh cannot continue this path pretending that we're somehow the leader of the world. Humility is what Clinton sorely lacks, and that is why so many abhor her attitudes and policy stances.
But, please, go ahead and shout "RAH-RAH" from the rooftops since we have our first female president. I'm sure the first troops who find themselves in Syria or Iran are going to fucking hate her for sending yet another generation into an unnecessary war.
Who's willing to sell who out?
AGAIN, for the 15th fucking time......Trump or Clinton.....SAME THING.
seekthetruth
(504 posts)Shall I go into the atrocities that Ah-MAYR-ri-cuh has committed in its short, globally-speaking historical existence?
Should I? If you disagree, then you really are the problem.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)You weren't voting Democratic anyway
hedda_foil
(16,368 posts)seekthetruth
(504 posts)part of the problem. You weren't voting Progressive anyway.
Gman
(24,780 posts)You guys are welcome to join. I cordially invite you to join in beating Trump. I happily joined Obama in 08 in spite of the animosity.
I would love to see Warren on the ticket too because she's that good, and because I think she would give Sanders folks the message that what they think and fought for matters.
LiberalFighter
(50,478 posts)But especially the Senate. She would be more effective there. Remember that the VP doesn't really accomplish a lot.
Gman
(24,780 posts)Rather than 8 years and go write a book. She could be a force for 20 more years. But if it makes Sanders people happy to have her in the ticket then that's where I want her. MA can elect another progressive v
LiberalFighter
(50,478 posts)Gman
(24,780 posts)So then it's a question of who is available and willing to be appointed then run for a full term.
MA's governor is a Republican.
Warren needs to stay where she is.
Wouldn't they have a special election too? Seems to me that's what they did when Ted died. I'm probably wrong.
beac
(9,992 posts)ever-odious Scott Brown for two years.
That was before I moved here, but I have learned that MA politics is weird (went over 52% for Trump in the primary!) and I want to keep my excellent Senator Warren right where she is.
Gman
(24,780 posts)Senators like her don't come around very often.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Make Sanders people happy, that is.
At least not a pretty damn big swath of them. We don't believe for a moment that having Warren in a ceremonial position would have the slightest effect on anything Hillary actually does. And we already don't believe a word she says. For many of us, the VP choice is actually irrelevant. The top of the ticket is unacceptable, regardless.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)And put her in a ceremonial position where she can no longer annoy and harass the Very Serious People as they get on with the business of squeezing the last few remaining shekels out of the middle class.
A real twofer, Mission Accomplished you could say.
Gman
(24,780 posts)Especially when a Warren is not the type of person who would tolerate being bottled up.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I said on another thread that I'm going to stick around for just enough grave dancing where I won't want to come back for a long time if ever but not so much that I become someone I don't wish to be.
I hope I recognize the cutoff point.
Nothing personal, I'm tired of this and want to stop fighting, politics and DU isn't really good for me. I have a remodeling project I want to do so I'll concentrate on that.
Gman
(24,780 posts)And not just here. The last two weekends Thurs-Mon I had no idea what was going on in the world while on a camping trip. And I liked it.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And she ended up as SoS, effectively controlling US foreign policy(which is probably the only reason we are still fighting in the Middle East, despite the fact that it is utterly pointless for us to do so).
Gman
(24,780 posts)In fact worked as hard as anyone including their machine on the process. She accepted the loss immediately. Her and Bill were key to getting him elected. Sanders has not been as magnanimous.
Demsrule86
(68,347 posts)And George Bush destabilised the middle east...there are no good solutions.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)Let's pretend that Bernie and HRC hold each others' positions right now.
Let's pretend that BS is ahead by almost 300 delegates, millions of votes, and the majority of SDs have declared for him.
We can all imagine how gracious the BS supporters would be at this point. They would all be insisting that it's not over until the Convention. They would all be showing class, magnanimity and creativity.
Who's zoomin' who, Ken?
"And keeping the left powerless in the party is NOT more important than doing what you should be doing to create a united front. There simply aren't any votes to be gained by the party telling the left, the idealists, and the young to "pound sand and peddle it walking", as the troll once put it."
You assume that "the left" are all BS supporters - a ridiculous notion to begin with. And BTW, who has been preaching to those "young idealists" that the Democratic Party is a corrupt cabal that has been "cheating" and has engaged in backroom deals to ensure that a certain candidate cannot win?
HINT: It wasn't Hillary who has been promoting that idea from day one.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)We would recognize(as the Obama campaign did)that we need partner to them in order to create the conditions for victory in the fall and real change after that. We wouldn't cut off our noses to spite our faces.
After all(despite the smears)Bernie is just as committed to the issues HRC is progressive on (women's rights, choice, LGBTQ issues, and that's pretty much it), so we would have no problem incorporating those themes even more broadly into the fall campaign.
Why is it such a big issue to you that Bernie has called the party corrupt? A lot of Democrats call the party corrupt every single day. Why shouldn't Bernie have said that? He wasn't attacking you or me as individuals, Nance-he's attacking DWS(the most conservative, ineffectual person we could possibly have running the DNC)and the Beltway insiders.
Even if you don't think the process was rigged against him, can you truly say what we have is a clean party leadership? Why do you take what he says about the party so personally? Can you really, honestly tell me you haven't ever said it yourself?
And yes, a very small group of progressives support HRC(almost entirely on the belief that she is more "electable" . Fine. You can't really expect me to believe that even most of those folks think she would do anything bold or transformative as president. I get it that she's competent, but, given her thirty years crusade(since she helped found the DLC)to drive the left OUT of this party, why would you expect her to actually(unless forced to by something close to a general strike)to even try to do anything the rich didn't like? Or ever support labor against the bosses? Or choose peace instead of war?
All I'm saying is, the Sanders movement(not the 'bros, who had nothing to do with the actual campaign)was the major force for change in this campaign...the only campaign that cared about the poor and the powerless. What is the harm in keeping the spirit of what Bernie and his supporters have fought for alive in this party? Why sneer at the very idea of that?
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)Because an honourable person doesn't ask to run on the Democratic ticket in order to tell voters how corrupt the Democratic Party is. Because an honest person doesn't claim they've brought new voters to the Party when he has consistently told those new voters that the Party is conspiring against him, and is cheating him out of votes.
"A very small group of progressives support HRC (almost entirely on the belief that she is more "electable" ." "The only campaign that cared about the poor and the powerless." Spoken by someone who is drunk on the kool-aide.
I note you have never weighed-in (and if you have, I stand corrected) on the hypocrisy of Bernie saying the SDs are undemocratic and unfair - while now saying he will appeal to the SDs to overturn the will of the voters and hand him a nomination he failed to win on his own merits.
Where do you stand on that, Ken? I'm interested in knowing how you reconcile that blatant hypocrisy with your "Champion of the People" candidate.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)LenaBaby61
(6,965 posts)I have friends who are dyed in the wool Bernie supporters who I've even seen give "eye rolls" when we've all been together and watching Bernie alleging that the party was conspiring against him One Bernie supporter pal said out loud to the television "Bernie, why didn't you run as a 3rd party candidate?" I told my friend he'd not even be in the race if that was he case. My friend looked at me and said "Exactly," which is why you don't come into a major party and co-opt the party."
Marriages of "convince" on this level very rarely if ever work out that I've ever seen.
TeamPooka
(24,155 posts)This was all about the AP wanting to be first like they were with Trump nominee win.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)As has MSNBC.
Although maybe not on the air...just opinion pieces? Still, everyone is running with it.
I'd be pretty pissed if I were in Cali.
TeamPooka
(24,155 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)MSNBC is out too.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)...refuses to comply with harmless FOIA filings...sets up unnecessary secret basement servers without approval. She's a narcissist.
Demsrule86
(68,347 posts)You all were never going to unify...now it is over and hopefully as the bitterness recedes, many will understand that this is the most important election in our lifetime...with five court picks. Also, what makes you think Hillary had anything to do with it...I think Obama put it in motion ...he is sick of waiting for Berne to face reality. Obama is fired up and ready to go.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It's enough that it's done with after that.
Demsrule86
(68,347 posts)Bernie would not quit...now that it is done...he has little choice. We need to move to the general. I think Obama has something to do with this...it is very clever...Obama plays 3-dimensional chess.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Only conservatives benefit.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)We just wanted it to be a progressive(which has to mean antiwar too)woman president. Stop pretending this was about sexism.
By itself, putting a woman in the White House transforms nothing.
We'd all have backed Sanders even if his name was Bernice and your candidate's name was Henry.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It's the issues. It's about her conservatism on economic and trade policy and her hawkishness on foreign policy.
Why is that so hard to accept?
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)on this forum.
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)I vote on policy , not what bathroom they utilise .
ruggerson
(17,483 posts)and i hope, for your sake, that you don't really believe it.
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)I can think of some people who'd be surprised by your assertion that being progressive means being antiwar too. For example:
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)That's going win friends and influence people.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)They thought back at the beginning of 2015 that this truly was to be a coronation. Alas, Bernie Sanders showed up and stopped that coronation in its tracks. They are clinging desperately to "But she has 3 million more votes!" and the old, discredited notion that she's more electable.
On top of that, she and her supporters and surrogates have made it crystal clear they don't give a flying fuck about anyone who hasn't drunk the kool-aid. If you're not blindly for her (what emails? What wars? What Foundation money?) then they don't care.
I won't vote for her. Period. Oh, and don't try to tell me that if she loses it's on me. No. It's on her. And her astonishingly high disapproval ratings. Her lies about so many things. Under fire in Bosnia my sweet ass. The Reagans NEVER discussed AIDs. Her server in her basement. It goes on and on.
I was listening to an interview earlier today with someone who is one of the reporters covering her campaign, and she commented about how totally unavailable to the press Hillary is, how completely shielded from anything at all.
I went to a Sanders rally a few weeks ago here in New Mexico, and about three different times he stopped and responded to someone in the crowd. I don't think Hillary has done that.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)It is not the responsibility of the Sanders supporters to protect Hillary's candidacy. She has forfeited any allegiance through deceit, trickery, ratfucking, arrogance and bullying.
Those who support an honest man who is infinitely more electable in the GE, who excites voters, whose honest and trustworthy polling numbers are the highest ever recorded owe nothing to Clinton, and a Republican victory will solely be credited to her foul campaign.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)November 8, election day, will be my 64th birthday. I had planned to probably hold my nose and vote for Hillary that day. After the out and out corruption and blatant attempt at voter suppression I witnessed today, I'll find something more enjoyable to do.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)up". They think we are like them. We are not. While they grovel at the foot of the Oligarchy, we fight for the 2.5 million homeless children. They choose profits for corporations over helping those struggling among us. Shame on them
zappaman
(20,605 posts)It's just parody now, eh Rick?
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)In some ways it hurts her, stealing some of her thunder from tomorrow, when she will probably give a victory speech. On the other hand, it could be that her internal polls showed that she is going to lose California and many of the other states that vote tomorrow and she wants to diminish the turnout and attention they get. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, especially since NBC called superdelegates to ask (rather than having them publicly announce).
Tarc
(10,472 posts)The BoBbers aren't needed, we already have the normal Bernie supporters on-board. Your 24/7 hate is not representative of Sanders base.
Buzz cook
(2,470 posts)She wouldn't leek this.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)She was going to do it tomorrow at the Brooklyn Navy Yard with many of her supporters in her own backyard
Where was she today? Long Beach Community College.
Does that even remotely sound like where she would choose as her number one location to celebrate her candidacy?
Response to Ken Burch (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
villager
(26,001 posts)Why would those apparatchiks start showing now that which they have been manifestly and ingloriously incapable of since the campaign began?
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)David Brock has infected her campaign and this is the result.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Who got caught red handed paying trolls to post
Beacool
(30,244 posts)The AP jumped the gun because they chose to do it and the other networks repeated their results.
She's not Putin, she doesn't control the media.
Gee........
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Beacool
(30,244 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)It keeps showing in every word Hillary and her supporters utter. It's literally sickening.
quickesst
(6,280 posts)To claim otherwise is just sheer willful ignorance.
AmBlue
(3,079 posts)And it's what HRC's best self wants from them. With all the scammery and nastiness going around, I've seen no evidence to the contrary,
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)I doubt any of them actually work for the campaign.