2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIn from canvassing, Bernie supporters said media says HRC is nominee, why vote
My husband repeated this when I got home. He said the news he saw said
NBC said that Hillary now had enough delegates and had won the nomination.
This is unbelievable treachery.
If Bernie loses California, this is on the HRC campaign and the corrupt media.
Totally unconscionable, unbelievably corrupt, to try to depress the Bernie vote.
If HRC wins California, it's because of this outrageously evil tactic
Hillary supporters, think about this: a candidate who resorts to this does so because they can only win by these means.
Believe me, I and the canvassing team tonight are enraged.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)and other media followed.
larkrake
(1,674 posts)larkrake
(1,674 posts)eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)That would come in handy as president.
JSup
(740 posts)...her and the media have been enemies for how many decades again?
There's a reason she's almost paranoid in her privacy.
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)They will always protect what they've got.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)warrprayer
(4,734 posts)apcalc
(4,463 posts)The media is not her friend. Never has been.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)FourScore
(9,704 posts)Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)she is scheduled at a major event in NYC tomorrow...
versus a small event in California today.
So her choice would have been tomorrow night after NJ polls closed in her own backyard...
Long Beach Community College or Brooklyn Navy Yard..
Think about it
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)Now it will be a late, forced 'victory' party...and to top it off, her voters won't come out as expected in either NJ or CA, so she may lose some of her expected delegates in NJ (where she previously had a large lead)...and could lose CA altogether.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)They'll believe pretty much anything you tell them if it makes their hero look good.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)FUCK THESE ASSHOLES!
Tortmaster
(382 posts)The all caps should be a clue.
The fact that the claim by the OP is out-and-out Conspiracy Theory should be a clue.
But there are others who either believe the Conspiracy Theory or pretend to in order to further their agenda.
I'm stumped.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)BreakfastClub
(765 posts)still_one
(92,168 posts)any trace of critical thinking.
Anyone who says they are not voting because of the AP announcement in California, where I live, is saying they do not care about the other offices or issues on the ballot. That itself speaks volumes about the type of voter they are.
The Field Poll has been very accurate, and since the majority of the other polls confirm the Field Poll, California will be no blowout for any candidate.
While people like to believe their own propaganda, that their candidate was going to win huge in California, that does not correlate with the facts.
Those who were registered Democrats in the last election are overwhelmingly for Hillary. That is NOT a small number. The wild card are the newly registered voters and those registered as NPP. What the majority of polls indicate is that there is a 2 point spread between the candidates in the final result. In other words, no one is going to have a blowout win in California
While I have no doubt that some will use the AP announcement as the excuse why there wasn't a blowout in California, the polls have been confirming this for the last two weeks.
rock
(13,218 posts)Thanks.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)I would probably not push that "Hillary had no idea" bullshit if I was a Hillary supporter; and that's a pretty big If.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)its sort of like the spontaneous demonstrations Bernie supporters intend for the convention.
Being spontaneous takes a lot of planning.
So does being prepared.
quickesst
(6,280 posts)... about vaccinations.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)but feel free to enjoy the conspiracy of the moment
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)If you were on the receiving end you would see it.
Land of Enchantment
(1,217 posts)Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)nt
Land of Enchantment
(1,217 posts)I was likely voting before you were born. I have run state volunteer campaigns, donated thousands to D candidates and canvassed in 100 degree heat.
Want a fresh start? You are not going to get one with the establishment. Good luck to you because you are going to need it down the road when the flash flood of the FBI and Clinton Foundation pay to play come in.
It will be like watching Archibald Cox and Nixon back in the early 70's. Been there, done that, got a LOT of tee shirts.
alittlelark
(18,890 posts)Jarqui
(10,123 posts)msongs
(67,395 posts)still_one
(92,168 posts)Is it being suggested that they are single issue voters? If so, that speaks volumes
BzaDem
(11,142 posts)Frankly, the press has been very deferential to Bernie by not candidly explaining he had no shot months ago. The idea that they should not report factual information about who reaches what delegate counts (in the same way they have been doing so for DECADES) is absurd.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)BzaDem
(11,142 posts)apcalc
(4,463 posts)Evident Super Tuesday in March that he could realistically statistically catch up ...check Nate Silver.
amborin
(16,631 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)FourScore
(9,704 posts)where a nominee's win was decided by the media before the PLEDGED delegate count had been attained.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)the convention. Just this year, the news media recognized Trump months ago. It's all good.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)I have tempered my emotions until more certainty was attained. Tonight I'm in a celebratory mood. It's all good.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)a common sense of purpose.
RandySF
(58,777 posts)Four pages worth here on our SF ballot.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)As far as the excuses for losing, I'm sure that Berners would have been able to come up with plenty of them even if this hadn't happened, like they have for all the other states he lost.
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)It doesn't help them. Hillary was winning every poll in CA. Her campaign predicted she would win. Sanders camp was sending signs that the end was near. It is riskier for Hillary's supporters to not show up than it is for Bernie's. I'd say that if Bernie wins it's the medias fault. Her campaign wouldn't predict victory if they didn't expect to win.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)What? You think they contact all 700+ supers every day?
No. Clinton gave them the list of the reported 40 supers they were holding onto.
This was a setup to avoid/frame an embarrassing CA loss.
Renew Deal
(81,856 posts)The delegate lists are public
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Democratic_Party_superdelegates,_2016
But it wouldn't surprise me if they picked up commitments days or weeks ago and sat on them.
msongs
(67,395 posts)having to be told by a campaign. ya think?
TwilightZone
(25,467 posts)You really should learn something about how the AP operates in regard to elections so you don't look silly.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/4c9c850385c84b12ad5b85fda49743f9/after-weekend-wins-clinton-cusp-democratic-nomination
"The AP surveyed all 714 superdelegates repeatedly in the past seven months, and only 95 remain publicly uncommitted.
(snip)
While superdelegates can change their minds, those counted in Clinton's tally have unequivocally told the AP they will support her at the party's summer convention. Since the start of the AP's survey in late 2015, no superdelegates have switched from supporting Clinton to backing Sanders."
apcalc
(4,463 posts)All he news organizations routinely poll supers. Several days ago CNN's John King said on air that Hillary had 40 unannounced supers that we're going to make themselves know tonight .
AP jumped the gun on them.
Zynx
(21,328 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)increased Bernie's ability to correctly argue that she must not be the nominee
HRC and media were desperate to prevent this
Zynx
(21,328 posts)or basically tied. A "significant" margin was a fiction invented by the Sanders supporters.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)She has done it from day one. The first tactic was having the hundreds of supers lined up, which made her look "inevitable" before the race even started.
She and the party haven't done one thing in a fair way through this whole election. It's because there is nothing honest about them. They literally ARE the corruption in our party and in our government (along with the Repubs' counterparts). They acted it out for us, and showed us beyond all doubt.
This would have never come to light unless someone like Bernie had run. He has caused a number of things to become very clear, and that is why they hate him. And oh yes, they do hate him, that's easy to see, they can't even hide it.
msongs
(67,395 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)He did not.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)We don't need anyone to TELL US what we saw and heard. There isn't any way to spin it.
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)JudyM
(29,233 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)shameless stunt tonight is that Hillary's internal poll numbers tell her she is losing California bigtime. This is going to motivate Bernie voters like you wouldn't believe. He is going to blow her out of the water tomorrow in California, and it will be a sweet sweet victory.
JohnnyRingo
(18,628 posts)Said they were canvassing and people were giving up on Sanders.
Sounds like all but the Bernie or Bust crowd see the writing on the wall. That's not a majority of supporters.
This will really hurt Bernie in donations. You should send in the rest of your $2500 maximum. You'll feel better for it.
amborin
(16,631 posts)the actual nomination is at the convention, this year more than ever, due to the FBI investigation, etc.
many people are very stressed and have very little time and ability to read thoroughly and get credible info
so they rely on M$M so if they hear this, they incorrectly think it's final
JohnnyRingo
(18,628 posts)...and give the primary to the candidate with fewer votes and delegates. The convention is just a formality for what has already been decided by the voters.
Maybe you pray to God each night before you sleep that Hillary will be in handcuffs later this month. You should petition for a cure for cancer instead. That way if your miracle somehow comes to pass the world will be a better place.
If Bernie supporters or Republicans had anything on Clinton, she'd already be indicted. Everyone else has moved on to the general election.
LMAO. The math does not matter for Bernie supporters. It is always a robbery if Bernie loses.
senz
(11,945 posts)Hillary doesn't mind cheating. Just look at her life. All that "baggage?" That's karma. She doesn't care.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)a lot of people are tired, they work two jobs, they're stressed; kids are crying, people are crammed into apartments, they like Bernie and planned to vote for him. But that means finding time, standing in long lines, finding time from their jobs, finding infant care, getting to the polling place. If the media says it's all over, then many may reason: will my vote really count? doesn't sound that way, i'm tired, I was planning to vote but now it's a done deal and instead of more hardship and stress, i'll skip it
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)apcalc
(4,463 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)but breaking an important story is always going to be a huge motivation for journalists.
I hope you pointed out to the voters you spoke to that downticket candidates need their votes more than either presidential candidate does at this point. We need wins all the way down the ticket to have the kind of programs that are in both presidential candidates' platforms.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)enraged Bernie voters at the polls in California telling Hillary and the media to shove it, that he'll win handily. I can't stand Trump, but his characterization of Hillary as crooked is right on the money. She's about to get her ass whipped in CA, so what does she do? Convinces the equally corrupt press to preemptively declare her the winner to try to stave off an embarrassing defeat in the most populous state. It's sleazy and deceitful, but about what I've come to expect from the bottomfeeders who run her campaign.
writes3000
(4,734 posts)Hillary will win the majority of pledged delegates tomorrow. In New Jersey. The press would have declared her the Presumptive Nominee before polls closed in CA. Even if Bernie wins CA, it won't change where this is headed. Superdelegates will not bail on Hillary unless something catastrophic happens. Losing CA isn't that.
So Hillary has no reason to secretly tell a bunch of Superdelegates to reveal their choice and SPOIL her victory speech. That's just a ridiculous theory.
PS - I see people connoting a theory that 20 or more Superdelegates all revealed their support for Clinton today. No one knows that to be true. It could have been five Superdelagates today and several others within the last week or so. Just being pissed and buying into the latest victim theory doesn't make any of those assertions a fact.
amborin
(16,631 posts)crippled her; the major mortification of losing a huge western state would have underscored what a weak and disliked
candidate she is and would have made even the bought and paid supers think twice
senz
(11,945 posts)To win the 2016 Democratic primary, a candidate must have 2383 delegates.
Hillary currently has 1,812 pledged delegates. Bernie currently has 1,526 pledged delegates. To reach 2383 before the convention, Hillary needs 571 more pledged delegates and Bernie needs 857 more pledged delegates.
The states that vote on Tuesday and the number of pledged delegates available from each:
CA -- 475
MT -- 21
NJ -- 126
NM -- 34
ND -- 18
SD -- 20
D.C. has 20 delegates and votes on June 14.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/
It is virtually impossible for either candidate to reach 2383 pledged delegates from the remaining states.
Therefore, Hillary has not won and she cannot win without superdelegate votes. The superdelegates vote at the convention. Superdelegates can change their minds. There are some good strategic reasons why they may want to vote for Bernie rather than Hillary.
The fucking media is playing with our fucking heads. They had the gall to announce this before the remaining seven primaries. Those primaries could have made a difference. California could have made a huge difference for Bernie. This is sabotage.
They know most people don't understand this stuff. Heck, a lot of people here on DU don't understand it -- even though it's not complicated.
anigbrowl
(13,889 posts)Really, lecturing Hillary supporters about delegate math is cringe inducing.
senz
(11,945 posts)I was not lecturing anybody; I was sharing information and dispelling some widely held misconceptions that have been floating around DU. But come to think of it, Hill fans have seemed the furthest off.
You can go ahead and "cringe" all you want. Feel free.
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)Anyway at any cost .
marlakay
(11,451 posts)She said she heard Hillary already won....
Ugh!!!
senz
(11,945 posts)Really sad how they're discouraging voters.
gopiscrap
(23,757 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)now get to learn how election fraud works in America. States haven't voted yet, let them vote before you declare a winner.
You HRC people DARE to call for UNITY?? Prove you actually believe in democracy and at least act like everyone's vote counts.
djean111
(14,255 posts)Hillary will swing hard right - where she belongs - and woo GOP voters.
Really, what other group will cheerfully vote vote war and the TPP and fracking and slashing social programs for the Third Way, and other RW stances Hillary has?
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)REGARDLESS of today's results (realistically), she will have a majority of pledged delegates today. Welcome to the real world. Bernie could win CA by 20 points today and still lose. In the end, this doesn't matter at all.
amborin
(16,631 posts)candidate that she is, in an even more obvious way
onenote
(42,700 posts)And a close win doesn't change things for Sanders.
And it doesn't really hurt Clinton. She'll still have the majority of the pledged delegates, still have won the most states, still have won states that made up the Obama electoral majority with more electoral votes than Sanders, still have more popular votes.
The only thing Sanders has in his toolbox for persuading SDs to switch under those circumstances are GE polls that are notoriously unreliable this far away from the election.
amborin
(16,631 posts)so they had to prevent this at all costs
onenote
(42,700 posts)Why does it matter that she was proclaimed the presumptive nominee last night instead of at 8:30 tonight (after NJ is called).
Bernie's strategy and his need for California votes is no different because of the announcement last night. So why are his supporters bailing out on him? Did they not understand the strategy? Were they just fairweather supporters?
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)That's why he is 3 million votes and a bunch of delegates short,. However now we have a reason why they didn't vote, it's Clinton's fault.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Damn straight.
amborin
(16,631 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)all it would do is show Hillary to be precisely the kind of political hardballer who could beat Trump, while exposing the Bernie camp as innocent babes in the woods who Trump would eat alive. I mean, listen to yourself: "Hillary was going to lose California big, but now will win because she invented an 'evil' machination to change the result." So Bernie's camp was so dumb and inexperienced to get caught off-guard by this? And we should believe he can beat Trump if he's that naive and innocent.
You really have to make up your mind: either Hillary is a brilliant schemer who can turn elections on a dime, or she is a weak candidate who is unable to win. Which is it? It can't be both.
Either Bernie is the strong candidate who will overpower Trump with his force of good, or he's a vulnerable naif who gets outmaneuvered by political treachery. Which is it? It can't be both.
amborin
(16,631 posts)she is a weak candidate who can only win through these tactics
she was slated to lose CA after she originally had a 63% lead over Bernie
you'll see: if she is the nominee, she will lose the GE
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)You can't have her so strong that she turns California on a dime, but so weak that she loses to Trump. Similarly, Bernie can't be so weak that his support collapses over the AP report, but so strong that he'd stomp Trump in the fall. Your theory is internally inconsistent. It doesn't even make a lick of sense on its own terms.
I don't even think you've been canvassing or heard this stuff, quite frankly. You're just super worried about California so you're making this up as the next excuse for a Bernie loss. Every Bernie loss has some pathetic excuse attached. It's pretty transparent and sad, actually.
onenote
(42,700 posts)The reality is that if Sanders voters don't show up today it's entirely on them. Bernie's strategy today is exactly the same as it was yesterday before the announcement. That strategy has two parts:
1. Protest the media's proclamation of Clinton as the presumptive nominee based on pledged delegates and SD commitments. Sanders expected that proclamation to come tonight as soon as NJ was called for Clinton (he has acknowledged she's going to win there). Instead, it came a day early. So he made his protest a day early.
2. Fight to get the biggest wins possible in CA, NM, SD, ND and Montana -- especially in CA -- in order to cut into Clinton's pledged delegate margin (which likely will be over 300 delegates after NJ is called) and use those results and GE polls to try to convince SDs to switch before the convention. Nothing about yesterday's announcement changes that strategy one iota.
Oddly, its the Sanders' supporters that are saying California is now meaningless, even though California is exactly as important as it would have been without last night's announcement.
Txbluedog
(1,128 posts)His voters can talk the talk but can't walk the walk. I thought Bernie had a movement? What about going to vote for down ticket candidates that are "progressive" enough? I guess the revolution was only dependent on getting Bernie the nomination.
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)Hope you've enjoyed your first weeks!
apcalc
(4,463 posts)And blaming her or her campaign is just ridiculous.
RandySF
(58,777 posts)Yeah, because it means Hillary won.
randome
(34,845 posts)Otherwise, it just looks like you backed a winner, and do you really want to be known for that?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
jalan48
(13,860 posts)Bernie's message offends those who own the county. He's had his say, now it's time to get back to business!
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)... you are calling winning too many votes and delegates her fault.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Canvassing is going door to door (or, more atypically, by phone) to gather voter information for IDing supporters. That should have ended weeks ago. On election day, one does phone banking to get already identified supporters out to the polls.
So I'm not even buying your story.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)The whole story is bullshit.
amborin
(16,631 posts)Bernie supporters have been canvassing throughout; my OP was posted Monday but there was also canvassing TODAY ELECTION DAY
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Sure.
amborin
(16,631 posts)totally bizarre responses but consistent with the other supporters
amborin
(16,631 posts)how dare you write such total bs!
canvassing the last week has been GOTV canvassing; we covered every block in California, making repeated visits to voters, including TODAY, ELECTION DAY
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
senz
(11,945 posts)He said he's here to launch a revolution, not complete one. Get one started.
But as we both know, unintelligent people always think in simplistic terms of win/lose.
randome
(34,845 posts)Sanders' supporters spend more time being against someone (Clinton) than they do being for someone (Sanders). His supporters were always his worst enemy.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
senz
(11,945 posts)For most of this primary season, Sanders supporters have sung the praises of our excellent candidate while Hill fans have dive-bombed our happy threads with taunts, jeers, condescension and putdowns.
Only lately have we begun to analyze Hill because many of us think the American people need to know more about her.
You don't need to talk about Bernie and his supporters in the past tense. The Democratic primary is not over.
It feels like I'm being a thousand times nicer and more reasonable than is justified. Funny, that.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Neither can get 2383 pledged delegates. To have a winner, we will have to wait until the convention when SDs can vote and bring one of the candidates up to 2383.
Response to senz (Reply #100)
asuhornets This message was self-deleted by its author.
senz
(11,945 posts)It takes quite a bit to make me do that.
But I did want to make sure you understood that no one has won the nomination yet because a candidate needs 2383 delegates to win it.
Neither will reach 2383 before the convention.
And then I complimented you on your concern.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)As of June 6th, Hillary has 1,812 pledged delegates and Bernie has 1,526 pledged delegates. That's a difference of 286 delegates.
To reach 2,383 before the convention, Hillary would need 571 more pledged delegates and Bernie would need 857 more pledged delegates.
The states that vote today and the number of pledged delegates available from each:
CA -- 475
MT -- 21
NJ -- 126
NM -- 34
ND -- 18
SD -- 20
D.C. has 20 delegates and votes on June 14.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/
It is virtually impossible for either candidate to reach 2,383 pledged delegates from the remaining states. Since the pledged delegates alone don't confer 2,383, the superdelegate votes at the convention will make up the difference and decide the nomination.
senz
(11,945 posts)They were worried about today's primaries.
JI7
(89,247 posts)MFM008
(19,806 posts)back in 88 Bush was ahead in the polls expected to win. I walked a mile at least to vote at our towns community center to vote for Dukakis and nothing was going to stop me.
Washington State went for Dukakis, That pleased me personally very much .
NOTHING should stop you from voting.
Quit WHINING and GO VOTE.
Time for change
(13,714 posts)these Democratic primaries, from beginning to end. They resort to whatever they have to do to win.
marlakay
(11,451 posts)I just came back from canvassing and all the Bernie folks voted already and said media sucks!
I did meet some Hillary folks we were both nice to each other.
Only one person said no vote and shut door but they looked like type of person who wouldn't normally vote.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Some people really did not want California to vote. I wonder if the voter suppression will backfire on the Clintons in November. Lucky she's running against trump.
tarheelsunc
(2,117 posts)If you choose not to vote because the nomination is already sewn up, that's not on the media for reporting the situation. That's on you for thinking your vote only matters if you're voting for a winner.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)But regardless of today's vote she has it in the bag. If the media sad otherwise they would be wrong.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)vote either since their candidate has it in the bag according to the MSM. In fact I think I remember reading somewhere that the Clinton camp is concerned about that possibility but I don't have a link.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Me? I'm out of the country on the day of my primary, but I took steps to get a mail-in ballot ahead of time so my vote got counted. Not even the Atlantic Ocean would keep me from voting, but Bernie supporters get bummed out by a news article? Small wonder that Bernie lost, if those are the kind of ground troops he "inspired."
And the delicious irony is that I had to listen to months of "enthusiasm gap" nonsense, when it turns out that Clinton voters were the most enthusiastic of them all.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)And it looks like the Sanders campaign isn't going to have enough funds leftover to send out the participation trophies.
treestar
(82,383 posts)And as pointed out upthread, if they don't care at all about the other races/issues, they are also very shallow voters.
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)And money.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Ask yourself why.
treestar
(82,383 posts)They can still vote, no matter what the media says.
LexVegas
(6,059 posts)Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Hillary had already won before this, so stop the conspiracy theories.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Un believable.
Thanks for your volunteering efforts though.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Amazing so many people still trust the media with their projections.