What does Bernie Sanders really want? What he said he wants. Read his speeches. Go to his website

[imagine2015]

And check his consistent record in Congress going back 25 years if you really don't know.

If anyone on DU doesn't know where Bernie stands on the issues they either haven't been paying attention or they are just using that political line to slam Bernie and his supporters even more! That sure encourages unity against Trump!

[Demsrule86]

1. And exactly how can anyone deliver that?

We have a GOP Congress...maybe you all should investigate how laws are made.

[QC]

4. You begin by building support for them.

Think of how both Clinton and Obama are now talking about expanding Social Security. That was a fringe idea a year ago--the only person talking about it was a self-declared socialist from Vermont.

Everything we take for granted was once a fringe idea until people started talking about it first and then organizing for it. Women voting, public education, the minimum wage, the 40-hour week--all of those were far out crazy stuff until they weren't.

Honestly, sometimes I wonder if Homer Simpson is on the DNC now....

[Demsrule86]

12. And with the GOP having the Senate and House there is zero chance it will become law.

All this stuff is great...who doesn't believe in it. But you have to have Congress to do it. The only thing that matters this year unless we have a landslide victory and take the House and Senate (probably will get the Senate)is the courts. We can not allow the GOP to pack the courts.

[QC]

14. There was enormous resistance to everything good at first.

The Supreme Court struck down early attempts at outlawing child labor. The first women who tried to vote were beaten and force-fed. People like my grandfather, a United Mine Worker in the bad old days of company goons, had to fight for the 40-hour week and a pension. Medgar Evers was shot down in his own driveway for registering black voters. And so on.

All of the things that we take for granted as parts of a civilized life began as aspirations. I take your point about practicality, but we need both of these things. Yes, we need to think about the mechanics of getting something now, but we also need to show people that there's a chance at even better things later.

[Demsrule86]

68. All those things became possible

because of huge wins by Democrats so if you have aspirations, roll up you sleeves and lend a hand in order to elect Democrats...and I have news for you...most of us have long had those aspirations...Bernie acts like he discovered something new...he didn't.

[Demsrule86]

75. You are missing the point

We had a way to enact those things. At the moment with Congress and the gerrymander, we don't. All this energy fighting Democrats...when you should be fighting Republicans. My Grandpa was shot at for the right to unionize...different times.

[highprincipleswork]

28. I'm frankly sometimes embarrassed to be on the same team as those who wail

"But we're going up against the Bulls and they've got Michael Jordan and then there's Scottie Pippin and ooh Dennis Rodman, boohoo, they're so scary! You just can't beat them!"

OK, these players may be before your time, but they were awesome, and still they lost some and eventually they were out of the game. That's life. You win some and you lose some but you don't win any if you don't try and work together but stay at home with the boohoos.

[Demsrule86]

73. The way to win is to change Congress and keep the presidency...it is the only way to win. nt

[Demsrule86]

74. How about those Cavs? nt

[Armstead]

65. That attitude epitomizes the problem

The GOP has so much power because they push, and push and push on their goals, they sell them to the public -- and they NEVER GIVE UP.

They don't whine about those mean old Democrats. They tell the Democrats "Screw You. This is what we want and we're going to fight you for it."

They don't get EVERYTHING they want -- but cumulatively over the last 40 years they have gotten a much larger share of what they want than Liberals have. And when they lose, they refuse to lose.

Democrats have dcone one of two things. Either cower in the corner and only venture out with "75 Percent Compromise to the GOP" which they believe the GOP might possibly maybe accept.......And/ or they take the attitude "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" and give us scams that have been given the Seal of Approval by Corporate America.

As a result the Conservative Agenda has advanced steadily, while the Liberal Agenda has been struggling on life-support since the 80's.

[Demsrule86]

67. You can not even bring up a bill in the House unless you are the majority Party

Do you even know how the government works? The GOP has the numbers. Thank God we have the president, and they don't have a filibuster-proof Senate...but should they win the presidency, they will abolish the filibuster and go for broke. Tell me concretely what Dems could do given the Congressional makeup. And I have never in my lifetime seen such obstruction. As soon as the election is over, it will start all over...God help us if the GOP has all branches of government...thanks to Bernie. Personally, I think the Dems have done a great job...they save the economy and gave us health care. Do I want single payer..sure. However, Obamacare is what we could get given Lieberman and Kennedy's death...and it has saved thousands of lives.

[Demsrule86]

72. And that is exactly what we have done under Obama

We have health care...for the first time...not perfect but we have it and can build on it...Retail can not force people make $20,000 to work massive amounts of overtime for no pay. Obama save the economy...when the GOP had every intention of destroying it. These things matter...so tell me how we get even one of the things Bernie advocates through Congress as it stands now.

[QC]

80. You win the thread. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

70. This is the refrain of the "No We Can't", do nothing, stand for nothing, excuse anything wing

Of course on the flip side if we had Congress the argument flips to "ground work needed to be laid years ago if we wanted to do ____" and you can't get from where we are to where you want to go".

The reality is you folks want what the right wing wants without the hateful bigotry and no sense playing hurt or denying because the "Free Stuff" chorus has been heard loud and clear.

[Demsrule86]

71. It is reality

If Congress flips then get rid of the filibuster and go for it...but short of that...

[Lord Magus]

16. Do you honestly believe President Obama is taking his cues from Bernie Sanders?

Also it seems that Bernie has done little over the last 30 years to build that support. And he's not laying out any plans that I've seen on how to build it going forward.

[w4rma]

45. Yes. I do. Everybody is taking their cues from Sanders, right now.

They are trying to figure out how to replicate his fundraising machine. They are looking at the issues he proposed and how they can, as candidates, run on these issues.

The only people who aren't taking any of their cues from Sanders are the folks who think that they can continue getting the vast majority of their campaign contributions from strings-attached super-wealthy sources - and are fine with that.

Even the GOP is trying to figure out how to peel off some of Sanders's supporters. Sanders voters are the kingmakers in the general election of 2016.


Btw, you're either lying or ignorant by saying that Sanders didn't get much done. He got so much done that he was labeled the Amendment King.

[lancer78]

54. The Kingmakers

will be PoC this election cycle. They were not Sanders supporters.

[w4rma]

62. Don't play these racist games. Hillary 'won' more delegates through voter suppression.

But Democrats LOSE general elections when the vote is suppressed.

[Lord Magus]

77. Reporting a candidate has won when they've won is not voter suppression.

It's also not voter suppression if the general election gets called when Alaska and Hawaii or even the West Coast still have their polls open because of a candidate already reaching 270.

[lancer78]

82. Every time a Sanders supporter

complains about his vote being suppressed, that person is making a mockery of people who have been truly disenfranchised. Like that 86 y/o AA woman in Tennessee, who had been voting for 60 years in every election, being barred from the voting booth because she lacked a photo ID.

[w4rma]

88. Everytime a Clintonite defends voter suppression, it outs them as political hacks.

Political hacks who would be fine with disenfranchising PoCs who disagreed with them.

[lancer78]

89. Lol, read some of my other posts

I am not a big fan of HRC. Hell, I started an OP "Look out Billary, Sanders is getting mighty!" It got hid fast

[Lord Magus]

78. Or maybe they were just already progressive and you couldn't (or wouldn't) see it.

BTW who was it that labeled Bernie the Amendment King?

[Live and Learn]

17. +10,000 nt

[Demsrule86]

69. What a victory!

Be still my heart...why Obama and Clinton are talking about expanding social security...the reality is they will have to fight like hell to save it from the GOP ...but you all just know...it could happen if the mean Dems just did it already...wag their fingers and presto...it is done.

[senz]

23. He knows Congress and works well on both sides of the aisle.

People don't hate him like they do Hillary.

[merrily]

29. +1 He attacks Republicans only on their stands on issues; Hillary often goes ad hom.

[merrily]

26. Maybe you should investigate the Constitution and history. Congress is not always Republican and

can change every two years. When it tended to stay Democratic was when it included a healthy New Deal contingent.

Moreover, Presidents do have a lot to do with getting the laws they want passed. People can deny that reallity all they want, but, again, disproves the denial.

God, these false memes, posted week and week out, as though they were not only true, but carved in stone, is getting old.

[senz]

33. Talking points are incredibly boring.

[merrily]

36. +1 False talking points are even more boring.

[senz]

39. True, they're stupifying. We've had too much of that around here.

[merrily]

41. Was woo me with science still posting when you started?

OMG, do I miss her!

Anyway, she posted over and over that the point was not to convince us of anything. It was solely to disrupt/prevent discussion that might be useful to us.

While we're trying to convince people we will never convince, we are not discussing how to improve anything and we sure are not taking action. I'm over it.

I am also over article after article that "reveals" another version or another example of what we already know and what could not be more clear to an honest person: the system is fixed and not in favor of the majority of Americans. I get already geniuses. If you really want to be paid for your commentary, comment on what the average American can do about it.

[senz]

46. It took me a long time to get a mental map of this place.

I got lost a lot and tended to stick to the front page and lightly stumble through some of the threads without focusing on individuals. I knew nothing of the jury system and had no idea there were flame wars. I got a hide months before I understood about alerts, juries, the five hide rule, etc. For a long time I wasn't aware of the tabs that show "my posts," etc. and couldn't find threads I'd posted in previously. It was so confusing. I didn't get heavily involved here until Bernie announced and then it began to open up for me, perhaps from pure motivation. Once I grasped the layout and operations, I was blown away by how beautifully and intricately programmed it is. One person who helped me feel more at home here was bmus, and after I got to know her, other people came into focus and I began forming impressions of them.

I've seen mention of woo me with science and wish I'd been aware of her when she was here. I never know how to deal with those whose motive is to disrupt/prevent discussion (perhaps that's where ignore comes in handy). It's pretty much the definition of troll. Sometimes it's obviously an act of hostility and disruption, e.g. Hill supporters who pop in to say something inane and demeaning of the entire discussion. A good example is a comment toward the bottom of this thread. Sometimes it might just be someone who impulsively blurts out whatever they're thinking. I plead guilty to having done that occasionally.

I think sometimes people, myself included, will repeat the obvious for the simple purpose of getting the truth out to the public, to anybody who happens to stop by and lurk a while. I think of web forums like this one or Facebook as "media" capable of influencing the national conversation and thus the national consciousness, so there's a certain responsibility involved. Yes, I believe that. I know for a fact that one can get memes started by putting them out on "the internet" a few times. Because of what I studied in grad school, I pretty much always see public communication -- like this -- as potentially rhetorical. Now private communication -- private forums, email -- is a different thing.

Okay, I'm getting fatigued.

[merrily]

48. I'm sorry you're fatigued. Yes, I know for a fact that memes can start by posting. I've done it,

though it was not my intention. I'm intending to be very clear, or somewhat funny, or save myself some typing. So I make up a term that seems to me to fit that need. Then, sometimes, I start seeing what I posted outside the board I posted it on, probably because some people post on more than one board. Given enough time, it becomes part of the general vocabulary. That's never happened to me with an entire concept though. Just a name or verb or whatever.

[lancer78]

55. Historically you are correct

But there has never been this level of Obstruction by the Congress, Look at the number of filibusters. Out of 1,726 motions filed in the last 100 years, 601 have been filed while Obama has been President.

[MattP]

2. Google his Lou Dobbs interview

[Demsrule86]

13. Why would any progressive ever google Lou Dobs? nt

[lunamagica]

58. To see Sanders and Dobbs maligning immigrants

[lunamagica]

57. Yes. In the segment in which he appears. Dobbs and Sanders are like two peas in a pod

nodding at each others words, agreeing on everything...very telling.

[virtualobserver]

3. Exactly.....he didn't run for President for shits and giggles....

It is about the issues. He felt that in terms of a number of issues, we were reaching the point of no return.

[djean111]

5. I sure reached to point of no return. No return to the Democratic Party. n/t

[QC]

6. What's astounding--and not in the good way--

is how the idea of being involved in politics because you want to make changes in the world so that people's lives can be better is so far outside the mental universe of so many people here that it never occurs to them.

They approach politics like obnoxious drunk fans approach football--as a chance to cheer their team and witness the humiliation of the other one.

[vintx]

7. This ^

And it wasn't always this way here. It's sad.

[QC]

8. No, it wasn't always like that around here.

When I first came here, in 2001, I would tell people things I had learned on DU and they would say, "Gee, how do you know all this stuff?" and I will tell them about Democratic Underground.

Now, it's more a place to watch car wrecks.

It's sad.

[Live and Learn]

18. Yep, I quit recommending it a few years ago when it became downright embarrassing at times. nt

[QC]

20. Same here. I don't tell me IRL friends about this place anymore. n/t

[virtualobserver]

9. the fact that some people have actually referred to Bernie as a con man.....

shows just how out of touch that they have become.

The thing that disturbs me most about a Hillary candidacy is that her words are based on how things will "play".....I can't really figure out what she actually believes.

My view is that when you wake up each morning thinking about how you can spin reality in your favor, you lose touch with any actual beliefs. The only thing that you believe in is your personal "rightness". Hillary herself is the answer, not any particular belief or policy.

[QC]

10. Yep, it's a very ugly kind of moral nihilism, and while it's sad

that politicians would hold to it, it's double sad that ordinary voters, who aren't getting the money and power because of that nihilism would hold it too.

I mean, I can understand why a person would gladly abandon principle in exchange for wealth, power, fame, etc., but to sell out just so you can be shitty to people on a message board? WTF is up with that?

[senz]

27. Righties like to pick on liberals b/c we're reasonable & nice.

I think the same dynamic may come into play with corporate democrats and liberal democrats. Those who value money and status seem to be coarser than those who value fairness and egalitarianism.

[QC]

31. I think you're right. There's not much difference between the types

in terms of character.

A conservative in a blue shirt is not much different than a conservative in a red shirt.

[senz]

40. Yep. This place has proven it over and over.

I can't stand 'em no matter what color shirt they're wearing.

[senz]

22. Some people live in a bubble.

Your insights into Hillary's modus operandi are quite good. I've sensed this about her and it makes me nervous to think of her anywhere near the Oval Office.

[senz]

24. Yes, and it's disgusting.

I've stuck it out because of the casual readers, lurkers, and possible journalists who visit here. But I am so glad it is coming to an end. With the exception of some good issue threads a while back and the Bernie Group, it has been like wading through garbage.

[QC]

25. It wasn't always that way here. n/t

[senz]

32. Maybe it was easier when there was a common enemy like Bush.

Two very different Democratic candidates bring out people's innate differences. Although that doesn't explain the bot phenomenon.

I think Hill brings out bad things in her followers.

[QC]

34. That was a big part of it.

But there's also the fact that a huge new cohort showed up here in 2008 and were allowed to run roughshod over anyone they pleased. They set an ugly new tone for the place and for some reason the management made no effort to get them to behave--while kicking out a good many people who objected to being taunted, mocked, bullied, and stalked.

Does all this sound familiar?

[senz]

42. I wasn't hanging out here in 2008.

This past year must have been a really awful deja vu experience for old-timers.

It's hard to believe that those who behave that way are Democrats. But the meaning of "Democrat" has been horribly corrupted by the Third Way/ DLC/ Blue Dog contingent. They're just like Republicans: competitive, triumphalist, condescending, insulting, bullying. No soul, no depth. I wonder where they came from, how they got here?

I'm sorry for what was lost in this community. Maybe it can be recreated elsewhere.

[QC]

84. I think it's been nastier this time, with one exception,

which is that open and blatant homophobia is less tolerated here than it was then.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. GGGOOOOOOAAAAAALLLLLLLL

that is how many treat politics, I cover this shit, it si deadly serious.

[anigbrowl]

11. We all know what he wants, the question is what can he deliver?

I'm not short of utopian ideas myself. But as I have been trying to explain for months, Bernie's plans for how to attain these goals seem disappointingly thin.

[senz]

21. His ideas are not utopian and yes he can deliver.

He has laid out his proposals here: https://berniesanders.com/issues/

He explains how he pays for them here: https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/

He got a lot done in his 25 years in the U.S. legislature and he was a busy, active 4-term mayor before that.

He knows how government works, he knows how to get things done, and he works well on both sides of the aisle.

[larkrake]

35. but Hillary wont get anything constructive through, she will "compromise"

at least Bernie has allies in both chambers. They all hate Hillary with few exceptions

[RobertEarl]

15. In one word: Democracy

What that means is everyone in. Everyone involved.

The royals do not want democracy. It took a revolution in the late 1700's to get a form of democracy up and running and the royals have been its greatest enemy.

[senz]

19. They're not used to candidates who say what they mean.

It's a foreign concept to them.

[larkrake]

38. it is terrifying to them

Bernie could lay groundwork, but not get much through. Ryan is the dangerous one. Bernie wont cave to him, Hill will swap with Ryan. I see a bleak future

[senz]

43. People tend to respect straightforwardness.

Bernie knows his way around Congress. He got a lot done even during Republican administrations. I could see him getting a little here, a little there from Ryan without selling out the people at all.

Yes, Hill would swap. I was amazed when she said not too long ago that she could compromise on abortion. She doesn't seem to think about the lives of those affected by these things.

Don't feel so bleak; she does not yet have the nomination. Anything could happen. Due to her own reckless actions, she has some heavy stuff hanging over her.

[larkrake]

50. fingers are crossed, but DNC does not want him, period

[Lunabell]

51. It isn't official yet.

Furthermore a lot of us care. Bernie has significantly changed things already. "Bernie Dems" have been elected to represent the Democratic party in November. Bernie has changed the conversation about minimum wage. Bernie has gotten the Dems to change on TPP. Bernie may have a key position in HRC's campaign should she be the official nominee.

I know you get angry at a lot of Bernie or Busters who joined the party just to vote for Bernie. But I am a lifelong Democrat and see this as an opportunity to save the party from corporate control. Let's face it. Bernie has changed the conversation and has a seat at the table whether you like it or not.

[livetohike]

76. +1000

[George Eliot]

44. Bernie wants more Democrats in Congress.

That's why he asked us to send money. I did. Lucy, Tim, Russ, Zephyr, Paul Clements, Pramila Jaypal, Eric Kingson. This is how we change the status quo and if any of these candidates win, they owe Bernie. I'm not rich but this is how passionate we Bernie supporters are about changing the country for the better. It is not about one person. It is about all of us. I know whbere Bernie stands on issues and I stand with him. I hope Hillary can command that kind of action. These are people she will need if she becomes our President.

[senz]

47. Are you assuming Hillary wants the same things Bernie wants?

Hillary already has a huge network of the wealthiest and most powerful in this country. I've seen nothing in her lifestyle, over the 35 or so years that I've been aware of her, to indicate that she is the least bit interested in changing the status quo or encouraging young progressives who are trying to do so.

I strongly agree with your aims and values but seriously doubt Hillary shares them. We know for sure Bernie does, but the establishment has been doing everything they can to get rid of him.

BTW, welcome to DU.

[Lunabell]

53. I think Hillary is closer to Bernie's way of thinking

than Trump's. And her message was influenced by Bernie during this campaign. If he endorses her I am ready to campaign for her.

So this Bernie fan will be on her side if he has a bigger seat at the table. He will be able to have a huge influence on the Democratic platform. Then we will have HRC under the gun, so to speak.

Please don't leave the party if Bernie doesn't win the nomination. He has already won more than was thought possible just a few months ago. We need more Bernie Dems!!!!!

[George Eliot]

85. I can't make those assumptions.

If anything is to be accomplished progressively, we need more progressive democrats in Congress. And the people for whom Bernie advocates will be true progressives. I've been disappointed in the current progressive caucus. Haven't you?

[Skwmom]

49. They don't understand people who aren't in it for themselves and CAN'T be bought off.

[Lunabell]

52. Bernie or Busters,

If you were in the Democratic party before Bernie's run for the presidency, please consider staying in the party and continuing the fight.

We need the progressive left wing of the party to win it back. Bernie has already changed the conversation. Bernie and his message now have seats at the table. This is a party of the working class and we need your voice. A fractured party will have very little power to defeat billionaire interests that now rule the rethuglicans.

If this party is good enough for Bernie and he endorses Hillary Clinton, I am in it all the way!

[senz]

56. It's hard to imagine Bernie wholeheartedly endorsing her

after the dirty campaign she ran capped by the hideous AP announcement the night before six primaries in which Bernie, who was only 286 delegates behind, was expected to win enough delegates to at least pull even.

They fixed that.

I don't know what he will decide to do, but he wouldn't be human if he didn't feel, on some level, tremendous contempt for her at this point.

However, I agree that it would be excellent if progressives could take over the Democratic Party.

[brooklynite]

64. Show any case where "Bernie was expected to win enough delegates to at least pull even"

[senz]

86. A cataclysm was coming Hill's way. So the AP did what they did.

June 4th, three days before the six primaries --

The past week saw an abrupt change, however. The latest set of polls from California showed the two candidates in a dead heat, and a new USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times poll this week found that Sanders had actually taken a slim lead.

<snip>

This is no longer a hypothetical argument, either. David Shuster reported this week that many superdelegates are already preparing to leave Hillary Clinton and move to Sanders if he wins in California. So far, none have changed to the Sanders camp, but if there is growing concern among superdelegates, it could just take a handful changing sides to give others on the fence the justification they need to leave the troubled frontrunner.

http://www.inquisitr.com/3166572/bernie-sanders-erased-hillary-clintons-15-point-lead-in-california-and-could-be-headed-to-a-bigger-coup-there-is-evidence-that-clintons-nervous-superdelegates-are-ready-to-jump-ship/

The premature announcement of Hill's unearned "presumptive" status was deliberate voter suppression to rescue Hillary.

It, and many other oddities in this primary, will be investigated.

[brooklynite]

87. I repeat: how was she going to win enough DELEGATES to pull even?

Setting aside NJ, Bernie would have to win 80% of the California vote, and even then he'd be behind.

[Mike__M]

59. I'm undecided on this point right now

I'll watch how the state convention goes, and the national convention. Honestly, right now it looks like change will be more likely pushed from outside. We'll see.

[Lunabell]

60. This is the hardest decision I have ever made.

I guess I am also waiting on the convention and what Senator Sanders has to say. I just can't see leaving this party yet. I still want to fight for it!

[VulgarPoet]

66. I don't believe the party can be moved from the inside is the problem here.

As far as I'm concerned, there needs to be a movement from outside that shakes the party out of their kneeling supplication to Mammon. Something that ain't coming as long as the party has their thumbs on us.

[riversedge]

63. Well, Bernie came in second place.

[frazzled]

79. That was going to be my point

What if the person who came in second had been a real conservadem--Jim Webb, for instance. Just because he "wants" stuff, would that entitle him to demand those things be made the centerpiece of the winning nominee?

If Bernie wants all this, great. Let him go fight for them in the Senate. But he's not running this campaign. And even if a portion of what he wants is adopted in some form into the platform, it really means little: it doesn't mean we'll get any of them. Because we live in a democracy that doesn't have a strongarm dictator who imposes laws regardless of a mixed Congress.

[Orsino]

81. Imagine a candidate showing up to the Democratic convention...

...with a sea of delegates calling for these things. Imagine some of these things making it into the platform, and imagine the Democratic nominee verbally committing to them.

But I'm not the only one.

[brooklynite]

83. Okay, since a Convention doesn't write or pass legislation, what else does Bernie Sanders want?