FBI: Everything on Clinton is 'evidence' or 'potential evidence'

[JudyM]

The FBI is treating everything on the private server used to run former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s personal email account as evidence or possible evidence as part of the federal investigation connected to the machine, the bureau said in a court filing this week.

“All of the materials retrieved from any electronic equipment obtained from former Secretary Clinton for the investigation are evidence, potential evidence, or information that has not yet been assessed for evidentiary value,” the FBI said in the filing. Release of any of that additional information “could reasonably be expected to interfere with the pending investigation,” it added.

The FBI refused to publicly confirm other details of its investigation, and in the Monday evening filing declined to outline what, if any, laws it believes may have been broken to prompt its investigation. It also would not say who the target of the investigation is or confirm reports that multiple senior Clinton aides had been interviewed as part of the probe.

Still, the claim that all material is being treated as current or potential evidence could bode poorly for Clinton, who this week clinched the role of presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/282709-fbi-everything-on-clinton-is-evidence-or-possible-evidence

Despite folks here denying the significance of its investigation, this certainly doesn't appear to be a small security review if they are speaking about it in this way.

[NWCorona]

1. Yup

[Purveyor]

2. I'm ratcheting up my prediction that we won't be voting for either of the

current 'presumptive' candidates come Nov.

[grasswire]

59. I will join you in that prediction

I cannot imagine the damage it would cause if HRC is not held to the rule of law.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

109. Certainly possible... but, some elites are above the law, dontcha know?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Your signature of Hillary morphed into Trump is grotesque, The 16th can't come here quickly enough.

Your signature of Hillary morphed into Trump is grotesque. It certainly won't be allowed after the 16th.

[LAS14]

71. How come I don't see that in the OP?

[R B Garr]

4. The Bernie group has a thread to keep posting spam about investigations:

"Please kick and rec and kick again the threads about investigations"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280201565

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. One would need a tetanus shot before entering.

[R B Garr]

8. True. I enter so seldom, but it's always interesting to see the different versions

of reality.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Too many showers dry the skin and that is what one needs after entering.

[Codeine]

11. That's both disgusting

and telling.

[R B Garr]

19. Absolutely, I thought so, too. n/t

[JudyM]

13. Are you so biased to believe that posting a legitimately factual news story is spam?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Eight more days

[R B Garr]

23. But that's not what it's really about. It's just an excuse.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons."

[R B Garr]

88. lol, so true. "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things

before breakfast.”

[Ineeda]

102. One of my favorite Emerson quotes. n/t

[Capt. Obvious]

45. Jury Results

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
On Wed Jun 8, 2016, 04:07 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Are you so biased to believe that posting a legitimately factual news story is spam?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2160390

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

stop using the infused photo

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jun 8, 2016, 04:16 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Whut?
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Tired of this stuff.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: huh?
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Another dumb alert

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[leftofcool]

55. Are you so biased that you need a photo of Hillary morphed into Trump

Please leave DU

[Renew Deal]

57. It is hateful

[Number23]

61. I've been alerting on every single one of them that I see. Every last one of them

Considering that Hillary beat Bernie like he stole something among the black, Hispanic, female and other minority vote and minorities are running like hell from Trump, it makes that photo every bit as tasteless and ignorant as it is deliberately offensive.

Not that I expect any of the morons sporting that image to give the first damn.

[LuvLoogie]

21. The Revolution from London to Ibiza

[Jack Bone]

6. Here's to Justice

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Here's to clapping harder, jack

[Jack Bone]

14. I fought for Justice...so I can clap for it too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Good for you... We all did.

[Jack Bone]

24. If you did, one could ask you..."what happened then"...

or "why stop now?"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. See Post 25

" "

[JudyM]

9. Even if delayed...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Maybe if you both clap in unison

[Number23]

64. The Indictment Fairy has very thin, wispy hair. Rogaine candidate?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. I had it custom made.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107151664

[Number23]

73. She's beautiful, DSB and you know I love you like a play cousin. But maybe some Viviscal could help

[LexVegas]

15. Losing hurts, huh?

[tex-wyo-dem]

33. Denying the Iraq war was wrong...

Denying climate change is real and man made...

Denying Clinton is under a serious FBI investigation...

All victims of the same mental condition.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. Losing hurts, huh?

[tex-wyo-dem]

35. Yeah, losing does hurt...especially when it's in Nov...

And Hillary has managed to get indicted during the GE and blows Dems chances up and down the ticket.

Hello president trump

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. A wager. ..If Hillary loses the G E I leave DU forever. If Hillary wins you leave DU forever.

[tex-wyo-dem]

42. Whatever...I will say one thing...

I've been a Dem all my life and have dedicated my money and time to advance the principles set out by the party and the candidates I felt promoted those principles. If Hillary blows the election because of the FBI findings, I will not only never forgive her, I will never forgive her ridiculous supporters blinded by cognitive dissonance and Confirmation bias.

We're all Democrats, liberals and progressives on this site. We're supposed to be better than this...ignoring facts over hero worship is something my idiot repub relatives would do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. At the end of the day the DOJ isn't going to embarrass President Obama by indicting the president

At the end of the day the DOJ isn't going to embarrass President Obama by indicting the person he is working to elect. It would be a black mark on him and his administration.

Plus, she didn't have criminal intent or mens rea which is necessary to sustain a conviction in this instance:

He was equally succinct when asked if her use of a private email server, now the subject of an F.B.I. investigation, was a legitimate issue.

“No,” said Mr. Weld, a former prosecutor, adding that he had read of no evidence that would clear the bar for criminality. “I think it’s a nonstarter.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/02/us/politics/libertarian-party-gary-johnson-william-weld.html?_r=0

[tex-wyo-dem]

49. Intent is open for legal interpretation...

She knowingly received and sent classified material from/ to someone she knew had no kind of security clearance, and did not report the violation. That is an obvious violation of the law and could be interpreted as intentional.

And that is just one example.

On edit: once again, if reality denying Hill supporters are wrong about this, forgiveness is not an option because the consequences are unthinkable.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. I knew my answer would pull me into this morass... That's why I stick to memes and gifs.

What part of Obama's DOJ Is not going to indict his hand picked successor and put a black mark on him for life don't you understand?

And she broke no laws to boot.

If Hillary is indicted I leave DU. If Hillary isn't indicted you leave DU. To show how firm I am in my conviction she won't be indicted I will cut off my thumb and eat it on youtube if she is.

[tex-wyo-dem]

54. Well, if uncomfortable facts are a "morass" to you...

Then I guess our conversation is done.

Btw, I could care less if you leave DU or not. I've been here since 2004 and its not the same place I used to love, anyway.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. Because it's an academic exercise in every sense of the word...

You can do a search...I made the same wager she would win the nomination...I made the same wager she would win my state of California. I was right and my nemeses were wrong.

I will be right about this and my nemeses will be wrong again.

[Whimsey]

65. BS stands for more than bull shit

None of the e-mails she sent to non security personnel were identified as classified at the time she sent them. The state department retroactively classified them once the FOIA requests came in. read the papers once in a while.

[tex-wyo-dem]

70. I'm not the one who needs to read...

The information received by Hillary from Blumenthal was considered "born classified" as some of it was only hours old and had originated from the NSA.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that certain information is sensitive and should be considered classified even if it's not marked as such...especially when you're dealing with information from security agencies.

Unless you are claiming Hillary is just dumb and didn't know any better.

[Voice for Peace]

74. you need to get up to date on the facts

Last I read there were 22 emails containing top secret -- including SOP -- information that she turned over..
Who knows what else they've found that she thought she'd deleted? It is delusion that she's been cleared.

[Whimsey]

100. YOU need to get up to date

Defining them as top-secret came after the State department reviewed them in the wake of a republican initiated FOIA request. They were not defined as top-secret until the State Department refused to release them as part of the FOIA request. They were not classified as top secret at the time she sent them.

Can you imagine a world where something was innocuous six years ago but intervening events caused them to be more significant? Can you imagine a world where women actually have power over men?

That would be a more peaceful world.

[Voice for Peace]

106. look up "born classified"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-clinton-emails-idUSKCN0QQ0BW20150821

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-clinton-emails-idUSKCN0QQ0BW20150821

It is not for no reason that once the State Dept begain looking into this,
and were joined by a very concerned Intelligence Community (who will soon
issue their own report, independent of the State Dept) -- and these guys
apparently found some evidence of SOMETHING OR OTHER such that it
was turned over to the FBI and became a criminal investigation on top
of a security procedures and protocols investigation. This is all independent
of the republican efforts. It just happened the republican request led to the
revelation of the Secret Server.

So time will tell..

[Dem2]

17. .

[stopbush]

18. Er, the reason they are "speaking about it this way" is because that's what you do

if you don't want potential evidence to be thrown out of a case because you didn't treat it like evidence, both in your characterizations and in the evidentiary chain of custody.

You guys are grasping at straws.

[leveymg]

37. There hasn't been a legal development in months that gives HRC cause for hope. Grasping at straws?

Even the State Dept. report was unambiguous. She broke many rules. Now comes the far more serious Intelligence IG and FBI reports. Based on everything we know, confirmation of her many violations of law will be devastating and effectively end her quest for the Presidency.

[tex-wyo-dem]

43. +1

[stopbush]

50. Rules are not laws.

And some of the rules were out in olace long after she was out of office.

She has broken no laws. There is no confirmation of "everything we know."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. I couldn't be prouder of my fellow Clinton supporters for refusing to be pushed around.

[geek tragedy]

26. 8 more days. nt

[Bleacher Creature]

27. That poor horse.

It's dead already, so please stop beating it!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. ...

[leveymg]

38. That horse is very much alive and kicking, and hasn't even been let out of the stall yet.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. My love is stronger than your hate...Let's clap as hard as we can...

[leveymg]

46. You really like that wispy cartoon fairie. Maybe, too much.

Get some new material, please.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. No thank you.

[Bleacher Creature]

95. I'm a fan of your material.

Just saying.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

97. I am flattered. Thank you.

[Whimsey]

30. Bernie supporters are a lot like Bernie

as reported in the Politico article. Sense of entitlement and vindictive. Good for you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. That's a poisonous and combustible mix.

[JudyM]

48. "Entitled and vindictive" ... hmm, those words have been reported to be prominent descriptors

for someone else in reports of those who have worked with her...

[Whimsey]

58. Cite them

The Politico article has been cited on DU. What's yours?

[CanonRay]

32. That might just be a handy way

Of keeping shit out of the press. We cannot discuss active investigations etc etc blah blah blah. I find it very difficult to believe she is in jeopardy for something previous SoS have done.

[leveymg]

39. The Bush Administration also destroyed emails en mass. But there's a Statute of Limitations

that applies to most of that which presents a real restriction to any prosecution of Bush-era violations. That's an important practical, as well as legal difference.

There is another difference, one of degree as well as whether the offenses can be prosecuted. The destruction of records crimes of Hillary, I think, is secondary to her disregard for normal procedures of protecting classified information from unauthorized disclosure. The continued use of her Blackberry hooked up to an uncertified private server for all of her official communications, after being expressly warned about her unsecure handheld, is a new low in wholesale disregard for information security rules.

But, far more serious is her violations of Sec. 793 of the Espionage Act. Her private server contained over 2,200 messages and attachments containing classified information. She, herself, not only sent 104 of these classified messages, but encouraged others to do so, as well, in spite of laws that make it a felony to fail to report the observed mishandling of classified materials by others. Perhaps most legally significant, are 22 emails containing information that originated with other agencies previously classified at the Top Secret/SAP level, and five have been identified to reveal the identities of intelligence officers.

No Secretary of State or other high government official has ever mishandled classified materials on this scale, and none is ever likely to again.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. One...Two... Three... Let's all clap at once !!!

[JudyM]

51. And yet, her supporters choose to not see the gravity... every excuse under the sun...

I guess they think rules are for other people and national security doesn't matter. Seems to be a parallel there with the perspective held by the subject of their fealty ...

[Whimsey]

62. What is your agenda?

I was a school board member in 2009. We all used private e-mail and as an attorney I knew my school correspondence was subject to the Illinois FOIA. But it was easier to use my private e-mail than trying to figure out how to toggle back and forth between two e-mail accounts. And I still have my e-mails although at this point the statute of limitations has expired.

There was no rule against a private server at the time Hillary became secretary. From what I have read this is going to be an intent investigation. Did Hillary set up this e-mail account to keep her official e-mails from being discoverable under the FOIA? Also from what I read, her real concern was to keep her private e-mails from being subject to the FOIA if received on her state department account. Two very different things.

In Illinois, Rahm Emmanuel, Chicago mayor, has been sending city business e-mails on his private account and is arguing those are not subject to the FOIA because his server is private. I think he is wrong and a judge recently ruled that way. Hillary has never claimed her state e-mails are private and not subject to the FOIA.

Technology was very different eight years ago and Hillary was more concerned with her convenience ( and time management I'm guessing). That does not make her a criminal.

And Sanders clearly feels he does not need to follow the rule that presidential candidates do not release their tax returns. Like Trump. Why is that? Information that may disillusion his supporters? Like he was in the top 1%?

[JudyM]

67. "There was no rule against a private server at the time Hillary became secretary."

Classified documents offsite was forbidden.
The investigation includes but is not limited to intent, it appears.

[Tarc]

72. The documents weren't classified, but then again you knew that.

Whoops! I guess there will be no rebuttal here....

[Voice for Peace]

75. the rules on classification are specific about

"classified" markings not being required for something to be classified requiring protection. As Sec of State she is one of the main people responsible for classifying information and she KNOWS what is classified, she doesn't need it to be stamped. You're not following the story closely enough, or I think you'd not be cocky about it.

[Tarc]

76. If it wasn't classified at the time, it doesn't matter

We've been over this.

[Voice for Peace]

78. look up "born classified"

[Tarc]

81. Debunked again, as none of this material falls under that

You have 8 days to get this all out of your system though.

Use your time well.

[Voice for Peace]

83. I am using my time well, thanks!

But I do believe you are incorrect, anyhow, and time will tell so no point in debating.
Hey I may have only one day left on earth, so it is precious to me.

[Tarc]

86. 8 days to keep peddling Emailgate on the DU

Then it will be gone



No indictments.
No "gross negligence"
No "RICO".

[Voice for Peace]

105. time will tell... be of good cheer.

[Voice for Peace]

82. here's a bit

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-clinton-emails-idUSKCN0QQ0BW20150821

[grasswire]

63. that's very frightening......

...the idea of justice for SOME, but not for the powerful.

We use to mock the totalitarian states for that kind of view.

[leveymg]

108. That kind of lack of rule of law led to the self-destruction of the Soviet Union

and why the rest of the world will never again trust us at our word if we ever do the same.

We have choice, and it has nothing to do with our elections.

[Whimsey]

111. Socialism led to the fall of the soviet union

It is too much government which leads to totalitarism.

[emulatorloo]

60. What's plan c for you when yr "RICO violations" and "espionage charge" speculation falls apart?

I understand that you write in a very authoritative manner, but bottom line all you have is speculation.

The FBI is not leaking.

They are not leaking to the press.

They are not leaking to me.

I doubt they are leaking to you. (Feel free to correct me if you have a source in the FBI investigation who leaking information to you)

All any of us have is speculation. No matter how loudly we speak.

[Voice for Peace]

77. I think the only speculation is whether the indictment will be issued

and what it will cover, or if there will be a wash and coverup (which will trigger a huge backlash). There are enough facts already established, and the laws are already written.

It is similar to a simple math problem. 1 + 1 is most likely to equal 2.
However, these days, the way truth is butchered, we CAN only speculate that 1 + 1 = 2.

[emulatorloo]

103. The FBI is doing a thorough investigation, that's pretty the only fact I'm certain about.

[Voice for Peace]

107. it seems they are; and Comey's reputation is nonpartisan and fair, which is good

but could also work against Clinton -- based on evidence and legal precedent.

Because the question looms large in our land: is there equal Justice for all?

People have gone to jail for milder national security "errors." Having poor judgement doesn't fly as a justification in the Intelligence community. They've seen many of their own taken out for less.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

80. That is...

I understand that you write in a very authoritative manner, but bottom line all you have is speculation.

That is the sine qua non of the most practiced sophists, obscurantists, and casuists.

[JoePhilly]

79. If the FBI says something, it's proof Hillary is in trouble.

If the FBI says nothing, Hillary is in trouble.

For some BS folks, they start with their own conclusion, and then work backwards so that any eventuality proves their conclusion.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. William of Ockham says hi.

Would PBO give a fulsome endorsement to HRC if he thought she would be indicted and tarnish his image?

William of Ockham says hi.

[JoePhilly]

85. No argument here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

87. Folks here hate William Of Ockham.

That is why they are constantly chasing their tails and constantly wrong.

Occam's Razor>>>>>>>> Motivated Reasoning.

[greiner3]

93. Be careful when using the razor argument in terms of politics

[DemocratSinceBirth]

94. You can never go wrong by being parsimonious with your assumptions.

[One Black Sheep]

53. I don't get why people are complaining, this is a legit news story. It was posted today

I just checked the link.


This is a reality to face, however unpleasant to some quarters (Hillary supporters), until the FBI says its final decision.

Yea, it sucks that this potential sword of Damocles is hanging over Hillary's head, but it is what it is. All the wishful thinking in the world won't make it go away.

Maybe Hillary will skate by again, but we don't know for sure yet.

[RoccoR5955]

66. Remember, we cannot say bad things

about Queen Hilliary I.
So says the powers that be.

[larkrake]

89. some poor clerk will be blamed, another Manning, right?

[One Black Sheep]

91. who knows

All I know is that I trust the FBI to do the right thing, and if they find Hillary should face charges, then there is something there, for sure.

If the FBI clears Hillary, then I will accept that as well.

[larkrake]

104. YUP

[larkrake]

90. twitchy squirrels, ready to freak

[AzDar]

68. Tick-Tock...

[senz]

92. Gee, some people get really excited over this.

[Ash_F]

96. A pending disaster for the whole party

Not just Clinton, the whole party.

There were so many other people they could have run, that could have done as well or better at the polls. So many women. Women of color even.

[Tarc]

98. If wishes were horses, beggars would ride

Emailgate is a tempest i na teapot, a political football used by both the GOP and by Sanders supporters to advance an agenda, not out of any actual interest in the subject itself.

The Thread starter is now flagged for review, for the record. I think that should demonstrate the the shelf life of this topic on the DU as an instrument of criticism is coming to a close...

[Ash_F]

99. It was Obama's State Department that referred the FBI

Also I don't think the investigator's care what DU's moderators think. Censoring links to news stories won't affect the outcome.

But it would be a good idea for Democrats to discuss what to do if she gets charged.

[hopemountain]

110. yes. but some prefer to blame bernie for

bringing down the party - when his platform will restore it.

[amborin]

101. sounds ominous

[grahamhgreen]

112. I was speaking with a secret service agent the other day,

he said no one in Washington will ever indict a Clinton...

[brooklynite]

113. With all that "evidence" the President was willing to put his reputation on the line?