A revolution in the sense Bernie refers to it, isn't instant oatmeal.

[cali]

And historically it never has been. Clearly Bernie is referring to a non-violent revolution, one I think is better referred to as building a movement for real, substantive change.

It's something that takes time, dedication, direction, leadership and dogged determination.

Will it take hold? I feel hopeful that that it will. I hate to refer to the tea party or make comparisons with such an odious movement, but there can be no doubt that it transformed the republican party- for the worse. But the millions of Bernie voters despite the largely bullshit meme about Bernie bros, overwhelmingly support racial equality, women's rights, economic reform and other issues that have been staples of democratic politics for decades- before the big money interests gained such purchase within the democratic party.

It doesn't matter who leads the movement nearly as much as the involvement of people who support the goals voiced by Bernie and others.

You can support Hillary Clinton wholeheartedly and still believe we need serious election finance reform and other issues such as reducing college loan debt and providing opportunities for the far too many impoverished children that live in this country. One can support Hillary wholeheartedly and still believe in raising the Social Security cap. One can support her and still believe in limiting, not expanding fracking.

The eagerness of the establishment and MSM to pronounce Bernie's revolution dead and to bury it with haste is premature as all hell.

Only time will tell.

[geek tragedy]

1. there's a fine line to walk--they can't just fall in line and say "whatever Hillary says, goes"

on the other hand, if they sit on their hands in the campaign vs Trump, they'll isolate themselves from a lot of potential allies and find themselves very easily marginalized

the best model remains what the GLBT movement did with Obama--support him strongly in the general election, become stakeholders in his administration, and then give him hell when he fucked up.

[Betty Karlson]

5. well, if that is the model for how we deal with the present stuation -

support him strongly in the general election, become stakeholders in his administration, and then give him hell when he fucked up

I hereby predict that any positive change during a new Clinton administration will happen by infernal means and under Hadean circumstances.

[Florencenj2point0]

7. Why can't we have like buttons as we do on face book?

because I would "like" your comment.

[Fumesucker]

9. Welcome to DU....

Where every single thing Obama ever did or said was defended unto the ultimate breath.

So much for giving him hell when he fucked up.



Every single criticism of Hillary is either sexist, misogynist, racist or most likely all three, you don't need a crystal ball to see the next four or eight years coming.

[geek tragedy]

13. lol, yeah no criticism of Obama here at DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5345470

[Lars39]

12. Do you think she will ask us to hold her feet to the fire, a la Obama?

Not sure I see her doing that.

[geek tragedy]

14. Hillary Clinton probably does not need to worry about a lack of criticism nt

[Lars39]

16. It can also be considered feedback.

[geek tragedy]

17. the same people who've been on Obama's case will be on her case nt

[Lars39]

19. And she still needs to be open to legitimate feedback if she's to represent all US citizens.

[Trust Buster]

2. Fine analysis and nicely stated Cali.

[HassleCat]

3. The Tea Party was a good thing.

When it first started, before becoming nothing more than the crackpot wing of the Republican Party, the Tea Party was a small movement of people dissatisfied with the candidates they were offered. They were unhappy with their party's cozy relationship with big special interests, and were looking for a more populist slant, some way to gain attention for issues important to ordinary people.

[Betty Karlson]

4. I agree, except for one thing:

The eagerness of the establishment and MSM to pronounce Bernie's revolution dead and to bury it with haste is premature as all hell.

it is not premature. It is still-born. It is indicative of their desire to make the whole movement go away. It won't. And they will continue to dread it, every day of their 1% water-carrying lives.

[Florencenj2point0]

6. Actually

You can support Hillary Clinton wholeheartedly and still believe we need serious election finance reform and other issues such as reducing college loan debt and providing opportunities for the far too many impoverished children that live in this country. One can support Hillary wholeheartedly and still believe in raising the Social Security cap. One can support her and still believe in limiting, not expanding fracking.

Hillary believes in all of these things. She has said so. If you would take the filters off your ears you would hear her.

In the meantime the real revolution has been with the people who have voted for her, the people who need one. The Poor, Women, People of Color, LGBTQ, Men with Soul who are feminists not sexists, women who are feminist and have not swallowed the humanist leftist crap that if only we get income equality all good things follow. That has never been true.
The real revolution will continue to be with the Middle Class and the Poor, with Senior Citizens and African Americans, Latinos, Asians, etc... not the upper middle class white people who THINK they care about the downtrodden, but then mock them for not voting right.

[cali]

8. Actually, you're wrong. She is very pro-fracking, for example.

She has almost entirely cut out discussion of election finance reform from her stump speech.

You, dear, are the one with so much wool over your eyes and stuffed in your ears,

and so much virulent dislike for Bernie and his supporters, that you are blind and deaf to what was actually written in the op.

[qdouble]

20. You're so unbelievably biased it's ridiculous.

Whatever Hillary's position on fracking is, doesn't mean that she doesn't advocate many liberal policies... this is why Bernites often aren't taken seriously.

[cali]

21. far less biased than you, dear.

I've defended Hillary here frequently. I certainly accept that she's the nominee. I've said over and over that she's far, far preferable to any republican. Do I think she's progressive on many issues important to me? No. Do I think she has some very real ethics problems, sure. Does that make me the kind of vituperative person you are regarding Bernie and his supporters? Certainly not.

And I assure you, I'm taken a lot more seriously here than you ever will be.

[RBInMaine]

10. The "establishment" has been PRAISING Bernie's campaign. Will it be a fair weather "revolution"?

Or will people be in it for the long haul? And how are YOU going to be involved?

[cali]

11. In the ways I can be involved.

Not that I'd ever bother really engaging with you. I don't like how you play games. I have no use for it. I don't hold your opinion in high esteem.

That can't be a surprise to you.

[NurseJackie]

15. I wonder how people who intentionally isolate and alienate themselves from the party ...

... actually expect to change or guide the party. It's like the goth-emo-kids who refuse to go to the prom because it's too "establishment", but they'll stand outside the gym and complain that they can't hear the music inside, and can't understand why the band won't take their requests.

It doesn't matter who leads the movement nearly as much as the involvement of people who support the goals voiced by Bernie and others.

I agree.

The eagerness of the establishment and MSM to pronounce Bernie's revolution dead and to bury it with haste is premature as all hell.

Not if you listen to, and believe, those voices who are "never voting again" and who "quit the party" (yadda-yadda-yadda).

[seabeyond]

18. He has huge ass rallies and he does not define and encourage the path to obtain this revolution

you speak of. I was surprised as hell, early summer, Sanders not educating what the revolution should look like and the steps to take. Why he did not go community to community and build a base. This is what told me Sanders was to weak to be this leader. We will find someone, Sanders wasn't it. He was not willing ot put the time and energy into his and his peoples education. He took no steps to do the work that would actually accomplish what he was talking about.

I can stand up and say the same things as Sanders. That creates shallow, that will wear out. If you simply see peoples anger as a revolution, then you are wrong. That is not. I am now having conversation with my youngest son to not be that anarchist. As he is showing me the shit of anger. It is no longer about doing the work, in adult fashion, to gain the progression we desire. It is where I am telling my young first time voting son, this violence between Trump young male and Sanders young male is not ok, an mostly, says what a weak and stupid person he would be. He is much more capable of that.

So yea, I have to use this as an example of my son, what rebelling and speaking up really is. Seeing he and I, even my oldest son, are genetically inclined towards. And yet, almost 19 and stepping into university of almost exclusively white, farmers, Texas conservatives. Speak out, fight against. Do it with the brain, not being a punk.

Obviously, I have been thinking about this issue.