Is this a new precedent?

[Sparkly]

The loser of the primaries gets to hold the party hostage, making demands and refusing to concede unless they are met? (And even then, "taking it to the convention?&quot

Could you imagine if Hillary Clinton -- who ended up MUCH closer to Obama than Sanders is to her now -- had refused to concede, instead making demands?

Is this the way it goes from now on?

If so, why did Sanders run as a Democrat rather than an independent?

And does Clinton need to weaken her position in the general election against Trump in order to "win over" the Sanders supporters who vow not to vote for her, or should she just jettison them and take her chances?

What a fiasco.

[boston bean]

1. Only when a woman wins. If she loses she must drop out for unity. Its a fucking disgrace.

[CBGLuthier]

4. Bullshit. Pure bullshit. Pathetic .

[Sparkly]

7. Then what is the reason?

How is this primary season different than others, past and future?

[panader0]

57. HRC still does not have anything more than "presumptive" status.

Bernie is representing his constituency the best way he can. What is so difficult to understand?

[Sparkly]

61. So from now on, nobody concedes and every convention should be contested?

I'm asking.

[panader0]

63. He'll concede when the time and the terms are right.

[Demsrule86]

82. Ransom

Well, I say give him exactly nothing...let him continue with his basement podcasts...and we will move into the GE...no speech for Sanders either.

[panader0]

83. Need a tissue?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

91. According to his questionable judgement.

[Maru Kitteh]

102. The outcome remains the same. He lost.

He can sit on his terms as his fulcrum draws nearer and nearer by day.

[riversedge]

77. That is what Obama had at this time in 08--until the Convention. It is the way it works

[boston bean]

8. Uh no it isn't. Hillary as much closer and had a better case to fight on. She was ridiculed in the

Press and called upon since late feb the 2008 to drop out.

[leveymg]

64. She got her deal in June and ran around wrecking the Mideast for 4 years.

It's still wrecked, and she'll wreck it a lot more in the next four years. Along with the rest of the world. Bernie doesn't get a deal, so people just get mad at him instead of writing checks to the Foundation.

[Sparkly]

70. Are you going to vote for her?

[leveymg]

73. That will be difficult. That's surely not surprising, is it? nt

[Demsrule86]

84. Since none of you will vote for her anyway. I see no reason to continue

tolerating Bernie's reckless demands...time to cut our losses and move on. He lost the primary...he may never concede...some sore losers won't. Case closed. I for one am sick of this...on Monday we are in GE mode...and I guess since Bernie has not conceded...he can't be campaigned for here anymore than Trump can.

[leveymg]

87. We've survived the self-destructive impulses of the party leadership, and we'll survive her too.

Go play in your Magic Kingdom. Just stay away from the edge of the Lagoon. Tick tock, yourself.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

101. Did Hillary drop out in February 2008? Thought she defied the press to the glee of her supporters...no?

[GoneOffShore]

112. Ah, but that was then and this is now and .....

and and and....

It's her TURN goddamit!!

She doesn't have to play by the same rules, because Hilary.

[zonkers]

108. total bullshit

[Squinch]

9. EXACTLY!

[k8conant]

20. She made that choice.

[Sparkly]

23. It's the right thing to do

Not only to be gracious, but also to unite the party as much as possible to defeat Republicans.

[boston bean]

25. And if she hadn't??

[k8conant]

31. It wouldn't have mattered.

[Demsrule86]

37. Bernie is not a Democrat...can't they just kick him out?

He needs to go...the man is delusional.

[NWCorona]

43. You do realize that it took Hillary 4 days after the last vote was cast to drop out right?

[Sparkly]

48. Yes.

Four whole days.

[NWCorona]

49. And how long has it been since DC?

[Sparkly]

76. She had the delegates before DC

and the writing was on the wall long before that.

[Demsrule86]

85. She never threatened to go to the convention. nt

[rjsquirrel]

51. Agreed eom

[uponit7771]

69. Yeap, some people still think its the 50s or 60s or some shit

[niyad]

88. you nailed it!

[AntiBank]

92. why you calling the wahmbulance?

You said she definitively has won anyway. And that Hillary needs fuckall support from any Sanders people. Why do you care what he does? He is a nobody to you Clintonians.



PS, before tou get yer knickers in a twist, I AM voting for Clinton. I just fail to see why you sore winners have to keep on attacking. It's petty
and childish.

[NurseJackie]

114. I believe you're correct. And apparently you've touched a NERVE too!

[CBGLuthier]

2. Oh Grow up for fuck's sake. You people won. Quit your bullshit

Move the fuck on and shut the fuck up.

[Agschmid]

14. ...

[sheshe2]

36. It was a leave.

I was on jury.

[Agschmid]

94. #Notshocked

[sheshe2]

95. Me either.

[Demsrule86]

19. Apparently not

Weaver says Bernie is still in the primary...and plans to win somehow.

[geek tragedy]

34. Why is it that you can say Clinton won, but Bernie Sanders refuses to say so? nt

[bigtree]

44. you and the jury that left this tripe of yours

...this can't end soon enough for me.

[Sparkly]

78. Wow.

You can't say Bernie is a "sad case" -- that gets hidden -- but you can tell people to shut the fuck up and that gets a "leave."

It all depends on who's saying it about whom.

[Number23]

100. How very telling, isn't it? And you'll be accused of being a "sore winner" because you didn't

declare Sanders the greatest thing in politics any second now!

[leeroysphitz]

118. Then leave. n/t

[Blaukraut]

86. the fact that your post was voted to be left speaks volumes

about who is running the show on this site. Funny how Hillary supporters are now expected to shut up and be gracious winners while Bernie supporters still have free reign to act like jerks AND get to complain about the other side being "sore winners". Must be nice.

[Surya Gayatri]

103. Touchy, touchy...but, then, I'd be hyper-sensitive, too. Must be hard to watch the death throes of

a once-respectable and viable campaign. Not easy to see a hero descend into irrelevance.

[madamesilverspurs]

3. The game plan:

[comradebillyboy]

46. Perfect...

[Surya Gayatri]

104. Wow, how perfect is that? Every woman recognizes that put-down posture.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

105. +1000 nt

[leeroysphitz]

119. Delusion after delusion from you people. n/t

[Autumn]

5. hostage, ransom.

good fucking grief.

[Sparkly]

11. I didn't say ransom.

I said he's making demands, and not letting the party move ahead with his support UNLESS his demands are met.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Autumn]

21. You said "hostage", your buddies are crying ransom. They just go together don't they. nt

[Sparkly]

29. What would you call it?

[G_j]

65. Are there any rules against bringing his policies and ideas

to the convention? No.

[randome]

111. Know how you do that? By talking WITH people instead of AT them.

That's been Sanders' problem his entire 25 years in the Senate. He doesn't relate well to his coworkers.

[tk2kewl]

79. It's called politics

[QC]

24. Shall I fetch a pallet of smelling salts?

It's gonna be a long night here!

[Autumn]

40. A pallet of smelling salts won't be nearly enough. Make it a boatload

The angst is delightful.

[QC]

58. Here's what I can't figure out --

Is the idea of someone approaching politics as a matter of issues and human needs, and wanting to use pressure in accordance with those things, so foreign to these people that they genuinely can't comprehend it, or are we just seeing indignation addicts and poutrage junkies getting their last fix while they can.

Your opinion?

[Autumn]

62. I'm gonna go with poutrage junkies getting their last fix while they can

There people all know how things work.

[Sparkly]

66. It's a matter of effect.

Effectively, he is holding back progress rather than advancing it. That's how I see it anyway.

[QC]

81. What progress is being held back by insisting, say,

that we stop poisoning our drinking water with fracking chemicals?

Issues do matter. There's more to politics than Hillary filling in that last blank on her resume.

[G_j]

67. spot on nt

[oswaldactedalone]

6. Bernie is a disgrace

I voted for him and now regret it.

[AgadorSparticus]

124. Me too. The last month has been a real disappointment.

[LexVegas]

10. His place in history is as sore loser. nt

[Pharaoh]

12. This is totally trolling

[Sparkly]

16. No, it's a serious question.

From now on, the loser doesn't concede? And instead, makes speeches and demands and threatens a contested convention?

Or not?

[Exilednight]

52. You act like this is the first time this has ever happened within the party.

Do a little research, you might learn something.

Also, you're naive to think Hillary didn't ask for something from Obama in exchange for her dropping out.

[MyNameGoesHere]

13. He ran as a Democrat

because he lacked the fortitude to practice what he preaches. I feel he took the cowards way out.

[Surya Gayatri]

106. A-friggin'-men! All bluster and bombast. Why the hell didn't he run under the auspices of his

own damn party...the Democratic Socialists of America, where he's a historical member in good standing?

Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) is a democratic-socialist and social-democratic organization in the United States, which is a member of the Socialist International, an international federation of kin political parties and organizations.

Leader Maria Svart
(Executive Director)
Founded 1982
Merger of Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee
New American Movement
Headquarters 75 Maiden Lane, Ste 702
New York, NY 10038
Student wing Young Democratic Socialists
Membership (2014) 10,000
Ideology Democratic socialism
Social democracy
Political position Left-wing
International affiliation Socialist International
Website
dsausa.org

[BootinUp]

15. Clinton is not going to damage her campaign for Bernie

and Bernie will have much fewer loud supporters in August than people think.

[YouDig]

17. It's all gone to his head. He thinks that losing by double digits makes him the most

righteous person in the party. Hopefully he snaps out of it.

[Squinch]

22. Not likely.

[Squinch]

18. It doesn't matter. His moment is over. Everyone cut to commercial during

his speech because he is no longer really a factor.

[k8conant]

26. There were no commercials on the live stream

[Demsrule86]

32. So he is goint to be a podcast candidate?

And do you think he will quit when the electoral college votes or when she is sworn in?

[k8conant]

41. He will no longer be a candidate for the Democratic nomination

after the Democratic nominee is chosen at the Democratic National Convention. Nor will Hillary.

[Squinch]

33. There were on CNN and MSNBC

[BobbyDrake]

35. That's not what they meant. Every NETWORK covering the stream went to commercial. nt

[k8conant]

38. Why would I watch it on network?

[BobbyDrake]

42. OMFG. The willful obtuseness of you.

Meet my Ignore button.

[k8conant]

45. Gladly.

[Demsrule86]

27. I think it is sad what has happened to Bernie...

He must really think he can still win to put on this show...disgraceful of course but honestly...very sad.

[Squinch]

121. The worst part is that he had a message. I supported much of what he

was pushing. He had a chance to help get support for good things.

Now he has squandered his influence. I do think Hillary's agenda will push most of what he named but did not have a plan for, and I do think she will achieve more than he ever could, but it would have been nice to have two voices calling for the things I want.

Now he's letting himself become a joke.

[Demsrule86]

122. He did have a message and had he worked on it instead

of turning it into talking points...and added detailed solutions...it might have been different.

[Squinch]

123. Yes, exactly.

[BobbyDrake]

28. Bernie believes he's enwhiteled to such behavior.

He's not, but that's not going to stop his privilege.

[panader0]

74. "enwhiteled"? Damn, you're a clever little poster aren't you?

You may get a bonus for that codswallop.

[AntiBank]

93. sod off with the disingenuous faux racism interjection

its foolish as is your attempt at cleverness

[LWolf]

30. I call it democracy.

And he has millions upon millions of us behind him, supporting him in this.

It's the limited thinking and understanding of some that demand that he "concede."

I'm sorry he didn't win the nomination. I conceded that loss awhile back.

He doesn't have to kiss her ring. That's not what the revolution is about.

You know. That revolution that isn't about him, or about any one person, but about moving that progressive revolution forward.

Why did he run as a Democrat? You didn't notice that he just spoke as a Democrat, and spoke about working within the party, strengthening the party? You didn't notice how many in the army he brings with him are Democrats because of him? You didn't hear him vow to make his first priority the defeat of Donald Trump?

Clinton is weak. She's the weakest nominee of my lifetime. She's going to need Sanders and his supporters to defeat Trump. And working with Sanders to win our support strengthens, not weakens, that effort. The only thing it weakens is neo-liberal dominance.

[Sparkly]

47. That all sounds good LWolf

but if it's not about him, progress is made by having power -- not by the ever-popular dream of a "revolution" when we're up against rightwing zealots in Congress.

I look forward to seeing Bernie support the Democratic ticket in defeating Trump and other Republicans.

[LWolf]

54. That's the point.

The power should be with the people, not the corporate-corrupted zealots in Congress, be they neo-cons or neo-libs.

[Sparkly]

71. Right - but

the people's voice in representative government is our votes.

[Matt_R]

97. And roughly 45% voted for Sanders.

Whats your point?

[NobodyHere]

99. The people voted for Hillary ya know

[GulfCoast66]

80. Democracy??

That is a joke. People voted, Clinton won, and Bernie and a very, very few of his supporters do not accept it. Do not confuse this site with society as a whole.

This was the week he could have gained the most by reaching an agreement. But his pride could not allow that. Hillary is going to treat him more and more like the crazy uncle we all have. Not be mean to him but he does not sit at the big table at Thanksgiving. The press will ignore him. And at the end he will have to concede before the convention or he will not be able to have a speaking role.

Many of we Hillary supporters actually want more of Bernies positions in the platform but have realized from the get-go that we are looking at a cult of personality.

Have a nice evening.

[LWolf]

109. It's not a joke if you have a clue

about what democracy is.

[one_voice]

39. I would only suggest..

that those thinking this in such a nifty idea, switch positions. Imagine Bernie being the presumptive nominee and Hillary doing exactly this. Not conceding, making demands, etc. I have a feeling they wouldn't be as calm as they're asking the Hillary supporters to be. I have a feeling Bernie wouldn't be as accommodating.

When does Bernie plan to get out there an campaign against Trump? Does that have to wait for the convention too? Do the voters have to wait for him to have his big moment at the convention before he gets to work for them? Did he mention that?

[azmom]

50. Woohooo! Bernie is awesome.

[LuvLoogie]

59. Bernie relies upon the kindness and tolerance of others.

[ucrdem]

53. Here's how I look at it:

1. The Latin root of "senate" is senex, meaning old age, and the original concept was a body of respected elders to balance the annually elected tribunes (reps) and consuls (co-presidents). So fitting the definition of wise elder male Sanders gets automatic kid glove treatment.

2. Since he's activated the motor-voter crowd the Clintons don't want to alienate them though personally I think he activated them by bashing Democrats and they're already alienated, but hope springs eternal.

3. They don't want Sanders running as an independent so they're stringing him along until the filing deadlines have all passed in late August. IOW he's a problem but one they can manage.

[Red Mountain]

55. It's a tempest!

In a teapot.

Brought to us by those folks who demand absolute adoration.

Sanders can support Clinton without bowing down.

She's clearly the best of what's left, after all.........

[Rosa Luxemburg]

60. The party does need a big shake up and brush off the cobwebs

The party was becoming stale and people were going to sleep rather than voting. Now with all this energy we have to do something positive. I think by the end of the summer Trump will be 'dead meat.'

[Whimsey]

68. How many of his supporters will run for office?

That was part of his message. MSNBC last hour was asking 2 female supporters whether they would run for an office and they said no, they were supporting Bernie through the convention, not interested in running themselves, and if he did not get the nomination would reconsider supporting Hillary at that time.

It was actually sort of surreal because they were both in California and sounded like Valley girls.

[uponit7771]

72. Looking at their attitudes zero... I would be more surprised if he had 10 people running with

... his endorsement than zero.

Usually these guys are looking for the savior, the savior doesn't come the movement dies down fast

[Red Mountain]

75. no.....not a new precedent

Unique to the poor choices we have available to us this year.

[niyad]

89. he wouldn't have gotten even as far as he did, running as an independent.

[unblock]

90. neither new nor nefarious. politicians always wheel and deal, including with endorsements.

i don't know exactly what bernie is hoping to get, but it's entirely possible for hillary to promise him something that doesn't affect the general campaign at all.

such as promising to appoint bernie or his allies to certain key posts, or to back certain legislation or take other specific actions once she becomes president.


sometimes losing candidates do the gracious thing first and then get something in exchange later, but often it only *looks* like it happened in that order. especially when that candidate can sway a large bloc of voters.

[L. Coyote]

96. What an odd perspective. I'm more like, "Can't wait to see what these two have scripted next."

The candidates are just two people, the Democratic party is an army of seasoned politicos. We've got our game together far better than what you imagine.

What you describe is more like a Republican dream than the reality of this situation. Watch and learn from the masters.

[eastwestdem]

98. It will only become a precedent if the Dems give in. Stay strong DNC!!! Don't give him anything!

It's a bad example to set.

[Hekate]

107. A poll in California had 60% of Sanders voters saying they'd vote for Hillary in the GE...

If that holds true across the country, it sounds to me like the majority are actual Democrats making a mature political decision. That means Hillary can also make a mature decision and not bend over backwards trying to woo and win the minority of people who will not vote for her no matter what.

It's only a hostage crisis if both parties agree that it is. If one side (ie Hillary) says, "Thus far and no farther", they can walk away, having offered as many concessions as is reasonable, but no more than that.

So, best case, Hillary proceeds from a position of strength, and goes out to clobber the hell out of Trump and the spineless craven GOP politicians that are currently kissing his butt.

Sanders can fish, cut bait, or please stay out of the way.

[Demsrule86]

110. I can't decide if the best strategy is to kick him out or just ignore him.

At some point, he can't fund- raise off of a primary that is over...maybe the IRS will send him a love note.

[HumanityExperiment]

113. funny... lots of energy spent by HRC supporters as it pertains to 'loser' Bernie...

so is Bernie really a 'loser' is all this time and effort is being spent by HRC supporters on him to try to be dismissive and marginalize him?

[KoKo]

115. California's election has not yet been officially Certified...

And, won't be until the first week in July. He has every right to stay in until the election in California is counted and is finally Certified. And, to see how the lawsuit and investigations of voting ballot irregularities and disfunction of machines in New York and a few other states are progressing.

Plus Hillary's Server and Clinton Foundation are still under "criminal investigation" according to Obama's own Press Secretary and other sources revealed to Judge Emmet Sullivan in the FOIA Civil suit. I'm sure he has discussed this with Hillary and his Staffers. He is a US Senator and has standing as an elected member in a separate branch of Government to confront her with those issues.

[killbotfactory]

116. This is why I sent money to him, even thought I thought Clinton would win.

I want him to take every ounce of support he got during the primary, and move the democrats as far left as possible.

I'm sorry if Hillary supporters can't see the big picture take it as a sign of disrespect.

[leeroysphitz]

117. Not 'till November. n/t

[GeorgeGist]

120. Bitter winners.

Can't do anything without Bernie's blessing.