Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Justice

(7,185 posts)
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 07:47 AM Jun 2016

Sanders targeted young people with promises of college debt forgiveness and free college



I really wonder how many young people were drawn to Sanders thinking he would make their college debt disappear. If you took that
out of the platform he was offering, I wonder if young people would have supported him as strongly or as early.

Seriously.
41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Sanders targeted young people with promises of college debt forgiveness and free college (Original Post) Justice Jun 2016 OP
Free Stuff portlander23 Jun 2016 #1
Yeah, that's it. TheBlackAdder Jun 2016 #2
Not empty promises but real ideas randr Jun 2016 #3
Bernie explained very clearly where the money would come from. djean111 Jun 2016 #4
65 years old here! I found Bernie inspiring! No college debt here, but B Calm Jun 2016 #5
It's the "I had to pay for mine, why should I have to pay for you?" mindset, Very Libertarian. TheBlackAdder Jun 2016 #8
Bingo! I worry about the direction my Democratic party is headed. It's like B Calm Jun 2016 #12
That's what the purpose of the Koch-funded DLC was for--to assimilate the Democratic Party. TheBlackAdder Jun 2016 #16
Tell people dream big, get them into debt, then get them fighting among themselves while you prosper EndElectoral Jun 2016 #25
Late 50s and in the 2% income bracket FreakinDJ Jun 2016 #14
Some no doubt, but most students simply recognized a Hortensis Jun 2016 #6
What did hrc promise Goldman Sachs elehhhhna Jun 2016 #7
All the spin in the world, all of the attacks of Sanders in the world... Miles Archer Jun 2016 #13
Bunch of damn freeloading bums looking for free stuff are they? Autumn Jun 2016 #9
Of course they owe debts. Almost everyone has debts leftofcool Jun 2016 #18
At the end of 30 years seabeckind Jun 2016 #22
If that line of thinking is now what fuels the Democratic Party, NorthCarolina Jun 2016 #32
The thing is... ljm2002 Jun 2016 #35
And that's bad? TheCowsCameHome Jun 2016 #10
"Targeted?" Miles Archer Jun 2016 #11
Yeah, what an awful plan. 99Forever Jun 2016 #15
Another establishment attempt to protect the status quo by delegitimizing those seeking change Teamster Jeff Jun 2016 #17
Is this a bad thing that people vote for their own self interest? pinebox Jun 2016 #19
I look at it more like a societal investment in the future seabeckind Jun 2016 #20
Congrats on 5,000 posts! bigwillq Jun 2016 #21
Yup. Bernie poll tested what young people wanted, then gave it to them. But he's just 'honest'. CrowCityDem Jun 2016 #23
I can't decide if this is stupid, cynical, mean-spirited, or Beowulf Jun 2016 #31
This is just conservative Jbradshaw120 Jun 2016 #24
Its a good idea etherealtruth Jun 2016 #26
And WTF is wrong with the idea of a society educating it's people glowing Jun 2016 #27
Sure.... Buddyblazon Jun 2016 #28
Nothing so dear should ever be free, or even affordable. I gotcha. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #29
It's climate change issues that I hear most from young Bernie supporters Arazi Jun 2016 #30
The kids are going to get total college debt forgiveness, one way or another. reformist2 Jun 2016 #33
bullshit. He's been saying this for fucking decades. He promised nothing cali Jun 2016 #34
Goddam kids! Always wantin' free stuff and cuttin' across my grass! n/t QC Jun 2016 #36
Seriously? GeorgeGist Jun 2016 #37
DU rec CorkySt.Clair Jun 2016 #38
do you realize that's the same thing Republicans say about black voters and welfare? n/t JustinL Jun 2016 #39
I wonder how far right some will wander TheKentuckian Jun 2016 #40
"debt forgiveness"???? I guess I was not paying attention - I do not remember any debt forgiveness DrDan Jun 2016 #41
 

portlander23

(2,078 posts)
1. Free Stuff
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 07:52 AM
Jun 2016
How the Republican Obsession With 'Free Stuff' Could Backfire
Sahil Kapur
Bloomberg
October 19, 2015 — 5:00 AM EDT

It has become a familiar Republican refrain. Senator Marco Rubio on Wednesday called the first Democratic debate a contest over “who was going to give away the most free stuff.” New Jersey Governor Chris Christie quipped Friday in New Hampshire, “There's gonna be more free stuff for more people than you can even imagine sitting and listening to Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton and the rest of the crew up there.”

Last month, Jeb Bush characterized Democrats' message to African-American voters as “get in line and we'll take care of you with free stuff.” A few days earlier, Senator Rand Paul mockingly accused Sanders of promising voters “free stuff.” In 2012, Republican presidential nominee-in-waiting Mitt Romney told a voter, “If you're looking for more free stuff, vote for the other guy.”

TheBlackAdder

(28,155 posts)
2. Yeah, that's it.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 07:55 AM
Jun 2016

.


It's not that the majority of younger people have stronger democratic values and as they age, become slightly more conservative, especially when people become situated in life and develop assets.


It's gotta be about the "free stuff." Nothing else could explain it. Not the fact that they are inheriting $17 Trillion in debt that their elders placed on a charge card so they could live easier. It's not that most jobs are barely above minimum wage, and even some legislators want to eliminate it. It's not that they are the generation truly living under the off-shoring umbrella, which is conveniently renamed "globalization" to make it sound like the world is one community. When globalization is just the rebranding of outsourcing, offshoring, etc.

It's the "free stuff."


.

randr

(12,409 posts)
3. Not empty promises but real ideas
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 07:56 AM
Jun 2016

Progresssively advanced countries offer their citizens these choices. Especially where the MIC and world dominence are not so important. As a Democrat, I think these are prepositions our candidates should be putting forth..

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
4. Bernie explained very clearly where the money would come from.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 07:58 AM
Jun 2016

And there was a lot more to Bernie's platform. A LOT more. Not just empty slogans and "more of the same".

Your assumption is that young people are stupid. And that Bernie was making false promises.

You know, even if Bernie had never run, those young people would not have crossed the street for Hillary. They know that war and fracking and the TPP and crushing college debt, among other things Hillary proudly stands for, are killing them. They won't show up or vote for that. They do their due diligence, they don't just "vote for the "D" or because WOMAN or because "it's her turn". Or all the other stupid shit that Hillary's campaign rolled out with - no issues, just silly meaningless slogans like "I want to be your champion". Against what? The thing she stands for? Increased H-1B visas, for instance?

They know what Bill's NAFTA and deregulation of Wall Street did. And Bill is, otherwise, kind of a joke. Not able to control himself, in the damned White House!

Seriously.

Is this the meme of the day?

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
5. 65 years old here! I found Bernie inspiring! No college debt here, but
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 07:58 AM
Jun 2016

I when I paid for my sons college education I did find out how damn expensive it is.

TheBlackAdder

(28,155 posts)
8. It's the "I had to pay for mine, why should I have to pay for you?" mindset, Very Libertarian.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:03 AM
Jun 2016

.


Instead, it's rebranded as a bunch of sit-at-home moochers expecting free handouts from the government.


It's better those handouts go to private prisons, the defense industry, Big Oil, and Big PhRMA. After all, they are the "job producers" and aren't a drag on the economy. (Dang, that sounds like FOX News)


My one sister said that she had to pay for college and it wasn't that bad, back when the minimum was $2.65? or something. But, when she went, the state school was mostly funded by the government and she had to only pay $100 a credit hour. She graduated right before college costs started to skyrocket in the 1980's. Minimum wage goes up 3.5 times, but that same tuition leapfrogged that. Not to mention, it was easier to find jobs that paid higher thanminimum, with a college degree. Now, you're lucky if Cotsco is hiring, else it's Wal*Mart.

.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
12. Bingo! I worry about the direction my Democratic party is headed. It's like
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:08 AM
Jun 2016

we've been taken over by republicans.

 

FreakinDJ

(17,644 posts)
14. Late 50s and in the 2% income bracket
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:10 AM
Jun 2016

Bernie is absolutely right about the "Rigged Economy" and I really hate to see America go down in flames over the greed of a few

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
6. Some no doubt, but most students simply recognized a
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:01 AM
Jun 2016

serious problem that needs to be addressed because it was theirs. And good for them for thinking they should do something about it. We now know that a lot of the young people attending those rallies did also come out and vote.

As for Bernie, he did inspire people to become involved and demand change, and that is very, very good.

But please do not take this as excusing his deliberately deceiving the American people about what he could accomplish. He did that a lot, and it's not okay.

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
13. All the spin in the world, all of the attacks of Sanders in the world...
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:10 AM
Jun 2016

...can't erase this image from the minds of people who don't see Goldman Sachs as a "selling point." It's not hate, it's not an attack, it's not misogyny.

IT'S A PHOTO. And it's a controversy at the heart of Clinton's campaign, no matter who likes it and who doesn't.



Autumn

(44,958 posts)
9. Bunch of damn freeloading bums looking for free stuff are they?
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:04 AM
Jun 2016

Seriously.
How do you people think like that? Do you not realize the debt these young people owe?

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
18. Of course they owe debts. Almost everyone has debts
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:38 AM
Jun 2016

Do you think that student loan is the only debt? How about we pay off people's mortgages? Car loans maybe? What is the difference in the student who leaves college with 200K in student loans and the couple who owes 200K on their home? Both take about 30 years to pay off and both are loans taken out in good faith.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
22. At the end of 30 years
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:50 AM
Jun 2016

the home owner has put a roof over his head for 30 years for the cost of a monthly mortgage that is probably less than rent he would have been paying without taking the loan.

At the end of 30 years he most likely has a home worth at least $200k that he can retrieve and use to continue his life.

IOW, bullshit analogy.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
32. If that line of thinking is now what fuels the Democratic Party,
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 10:37 AM
Jun 2016

then the party has obviously abandoned the working class and poor for good.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
35. The thing is...
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 10:59 AM
Jun 2016

...we have never had a time when so many students owe such a crushing amount of debt.

And owing that debt, that you yourself liken to mortgage debt, means they cannot take on other kinds of debt -- like, for example, buying a house. Or a new car. So their 30-year student loan takes the place of a mortgage, and the housing market devolves into a small percentage of ownership, and a larger percentage of renters.

I will leave the consequences of that as an exercise for the reader. I'm sure you can work it out.

Miles Archer

(18,837 posts)
11. "Targeted?"
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:06 AM
Jun 2016

Seriously. "I wonder if..."

Stop wondering. Let me clear up your confusion right here and right now.

"Young people" aren't idiots, and a lot of them aren't sheep, even though you want to classify them as lemmings who are drawn to "something for nothing."

You can't reduce Sanders to the level of snake oil salesman just because he's not your candidate of choice. If you took college debt out of his platform, we'd be standing right where we're standing now.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
15. Yeah, what an awful plan.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:11 AM
Jun 2016

Allowing those insignificant little people to get an education so they can earn a decent living in today's world without burying them under a mountain of lifelong, soul-crushing debt. How the fuck are the .01%ers gonna turn an obscene profit on that?

Teamster Jeff

(1,598 posts)
17. Another establishment attempt to protect the status quo by delegitimizing those seeking change
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:27 AM
Jun 2016

They would like everyone to believe that Bernie supporters are exclusively made up of confused children and angry white guys.

Propaganda swallowed whole by many here at DU



 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
19. Is this a bad thing that people vote for their own self interest?
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:41 AM
Jun 2016

I don't think so and yet we hear Dems trashing Republican supporters and how they vote against their own self interests.
That doesn't fly here, sorry.

Why is it bad that kids don't want to be laden with debt the rest of their lives. The world is a much smaller place these days and thank to things like the internet, people can now talk with others at any given second with people from all over the globe and hey guess what? The veil has been lifted and America isn't all it's cracked up to be. People are discovering that in countries like Denmark and Germany, people are actually happier and they live better thanks to things like free EDU basically.

Tell us, why do you support a system that is intentionally done to make kids pay and be under the table for so many years, many of whom will never get ahead thanks to student loans. Tell us, why do you support keeping people down? It used to be that to get anywhere you had to have a college education, keyword 'used to be". That is a lie. In fact, many millions never ever will because they are paying more than amounts to a mortgage every single month for stupid student loans.

seabeckind

(1,957 posts)
20. I look at it more like a societal investment in the future
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:44 AM
Jun 2016

Progress requires educated people. Education is like seeds thrown into a field. There's no way to tell ahead of time which will flourish but some will.

Yeah, it's a very small percentage.

I'm going to go out a limb here and suggest that almost none of the major advances in our culture happened without educated people.

And there was no way to tell back when Wozniack was sitting in the 3rd grade that 15 years later he would have been doing so much with that basic arithmetic he was learning.

These days I am amazed that people actually believe that bullshit book about everything the guy needed to learn in life he learned in kindergarten (or wherever the f' it was)....

totally ignoring the word processor and computer communications he's using.

And people bought that. Proving we really need more, better education.

No matter what it costs.

Jbradshaw120

(80 posts)
24. This is just conservative
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 08:56 AM
Jun 2016

Bullshit. In addition to being agist. This is no better then Regan's welfare queen bullshit.

 

glowing

(12,233 posts)
27. And WTF is wrong with the idea of a society educating it's people
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 09:30 AM
Jun 2016

to be competitive in a global market? It's absolutely enslaving our young people, creating a huge financial nightmare in the making, not to mention the fact that it makes it nearly impossible for them to create new entrepreneurial enterprises of their own, buy a new car, think about participating in home buying (let alone getting out of their parents basement), or thinking about marriage or children. And if they don't go to college, it's nearly impossible to get many jobs these days. There are so many that insist on a college degree and only want to pay out $25,000 sallary. Add onto the fact that our healthcare system is an absolute nightmare, which makes it really hard to "start out on your own" or remain "competitive" in regards to employees who gain some experience and move on to an established corporation for the benefit packages.

I really don't think many people understand just how exacerbating it is to be a millennial in the "gig" job market that insists that you have a college education. Or that many of the Union jobs of yore, manufacturing, etc, and allowing the employees to start new hires at $9 or $10/ hr, that they won't be allowed a pension, or a guarantee of healthcare package upon retirement.

And this is an ALL American issue. If you depress wages and spending power of your "youth", the tax monies collected by the country will decrease, state and local tax collections will decrease. Mainly, the only people who will be gaining money off the $1.3 trillion and rising in student debt is the banks that lent the money on interest and insurance companies (since now one must have insurance or be taxed for not having it). What really harms America is the baby boomer generation retiring and drawing more money from the budget via Medicare and Social Security. A population on a retirement budget isn't going to become incredibly lucrative with their fixed budgets in stimulating the country. And their replacements, if a company even bothers to replace the position, will undermine the take home pay for that job of someone younger by a lot; not just a proverbial "starting pay" in a job position before accumulated pay increases over years of services, but a huge slash in what they expect to pay anyone because everyone is screwing over Americans. And the 50+ crowd is experiencing after the massive job loss of 2008, new job openings with similar job positions are paying so much less (maybe half of what they did make), less benefits, and with an expectation that the sallary will entail 60+ hours a week to do the job of what used to take 2 or 3 people. And yet, large corporations are sitting on trillions of dollars in capital, often offshore, and those same corporations tend to have so many loopholes, that they pay $0 in tax revenue, while also enjoying perks from the state or local municipalities in tax breaks that "Mom and Pop" (true small businesses) do have to pay. And many of these "new jobs" are in the service industry, which typically pay much less and resort to using govt agencies to help subsidize paying their employees to live in an apt or home (section 8- HUD after a 2 or 3 ur waiting list period, WIC (if applicable), expanded Medicaid (if the state decided to expand), SNAP (which now the govt and state govts are decreasing monetary payments, or in some cases, disqualifying people who do qualify for the program by denying them the program). All of this is tax revenue loss. How is it these baby boomers afraid of "changing the system" they are so desperately hanging onto, going to survive their elder years when the tax revenue coming in doesn't begin to cover the needs due to the fact that the younger generations behind them are not making enough to replace that tax revenue thru their pay OR to help pay within local, county, and states due to their lack of monetary resources in purchasing homes (property taxes), buying new cars (sales tax), or even buying food that isn't ramen noodles (keeping stores in the black and people hired). It's a perpetual downward spiral without a real injection of real money into the real economy most of America operates in.

And all of this because our politicians are bought! They side with corporations, literally write trade laws that allow corporations to easily leave the country, enslave a under-developed country, and turn around and sell back to the USA that makes them more money than operating in the USA that regulates work safety, environment, etc.

AND then we hear, "we can't"!?!? Seriously! We can't guarantee a fairer system for our citizens and other countries with far less, somehow can? We all live relatively short lives in the span of the Universe, and we can't make a system on this planet that allows people to co-habitate in peace and prosperity. That we can't change our energy system and other environmental necessities in a manner like we would if aliens had invaded and were attacking every nation. That we can't try to create a world where happiness and community togetherness is the benchmark of success and a job is a passionate pursuit of life OR doesn't encompass most of our waking life. Can't seems absolutely stupid when so many can easily connect with the world and see that it can and does happen in different countries in better ways. Is it any wonder that the BoB don't think it matters one way or the other of its Clinton or Trump? Neither one is going to make a real difference in their lives OR do a damned thing about the real crisis of climate change this planet faces. And besides the Supreme Court threat, Trump is almost seen as an easier "evil" to fight than a Clinton Presidency. Anyone saying anything against a Clinton policy will be met with "sexist" and not taken seriously with validity. Plus, it's probably easier to seek impeachment OR in 4 yrs to get a progressive congress and a progressive President since Facism looked so horrific. I'm not sure I agree, but I can see some logic in their thinking. Look at what's happened in the Primary season, we have democrats actually holding up ideals that are normally frowned against because Clinton doesn't support them. It's the craziest thing I've ever seen!!!

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
30. It's climate change issues that I hear most from young Bernie supporters
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 10:31 AM
Jun 2016

Our planet is fucked if we don't take aggressive action now (may already be too late in fact), The US needs to be the global leader on this issue if there's to be any chance.

Hillary Clinton's tepid incrementalism fails us as surely as Repugs.

Only 2 candidates would prioritize climate change - Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
33. The kids are going to get total college debt forgiveness, one way or another.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 10:40 AM
Jun 2016

They're either going to get it when Bernie is president, or after an(other) economic crash where people can't pay their bills. May as well do it before the next crash - it may even prevent the next one.
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
34. bullshit. He's been saying this for fucking decades. He promised nothing
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 10:46 AM
Jun 2016

and young people are not as stupid as you evidently think.

He made it clear that achieving his goals was not going to be easy and required effort and time.

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
41. "debt forgiveness"???? I guess I was not paying attention - I do not remember any debt forgiveness
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 02:43 PM
Jun 2016

proposal

can you provide a link

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Sanders targeted young pe...