I side with which candidate?

[Johnny2X2X]

http://www.isidewith.com

A little perspective. There's a lot of misinformation going around about Sanders and Clinton. The reality is there is almost no distance beaten the two on the issues.

Take this quiz for perspective. I did. 99% with Sanders and 98% with Clinton for me. But how can this be? I thought there was such a huge chasm between the two? I voted for Bernie, but am happily supporting Clinton this Fall.

Try to keep an open mind and let go your assumptions. Reality paints a different picture.

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[Squinch]

1. Excellent point. One that some find very difficult to bellieve, but one that is perfectly true.

[Nye Bevan]

2. I did one of those tests and apparently I should vote for Jill Stein.

I refuse to waste my vote on a no-hope candidate, however.

[Johnny2X2X]

3. Voted Bernie

Like I said, I voted Bernie, but he lost so thankfully I have two other candidates who represent me in almost every single issue.

And to the loons saying there is no difference between Trump and Hillary, I dare you to take the quiz and then still claim that. For me, 98% with Hillary, 6% with Trump, the difference couldn't be bigger.

[NurseJackie]

26. Yep! I'm like you ... I vote to WIN. Strategy and victory is more effective than ...

... simply "sending a message". The only "message" that actually means anything after election day is the one from the winning side.



Go, Hillary! Beat Trump!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. 92% Jill Stein 92% Bernie 89% Hillary

[Johnny2X2X]

5. I find this quiz useful

I find this quiz useful not just for picking a candidate, but for really thinking about the issues and their importance to me. Rating each question by importance made me realize that some things aren't all that big of a deal to me and others are a huge deal. Often times we get stuck thinking on absolutes when maybe we do disagree on something, but in further inspection it's not an issue with much importance to either party.

[Cooley Hurd]

6. I side with Senator Sanders:

Candidates you side with...
99% Bernie Sanders
Bernie Sanders Democratic
on social, environmental, foreign policy, economic, immigration, domestic policy, healthcare, criminal, education, science, and electoral issues.
compare answers
98% Hillary Clinton
Hillary Clinton Democratic
on social, healthcare, domestic policy, economic, environmental, immigration, criminal, foreign policy, education, science, and electoral issues.
compare answers
95% Jill Stein
Jill Stein Green
on environmental, economic, social, foreign policy, domestic policy, immigration, healthcare, criminal, electoral, and education issues.
compare answers
55% Gary Johnson
Gary Johnson Libertarian
no major issues.
compare answers
2% Donald Trump
Donald Trump Republican
no major issues.

But, since I've been banned from that group because of this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280213863 ...which was a plea for unity, I cannot express that there anymore. People talk about "Camp Bansalot" and "Camp Weathervane" but they haven't banned me.

Oh, the "host" that banned me? I PM'd them to appeal, but they haven't had the class or dignity to respond.

[Johnny2X2X]

7. I bet

I bet most people don't agree with their spouses at the same rate they agree with the two main Dem candidates. And yet here we are with the Clinton derangement syndrome in full effect for people who agree with her on almost every single issue.

[Johnny2X2X]

8. The last few weeks

The last few weeks has convinced me there are several dozen republican plants posting here. The denial of Hillary's hardcore liberal history has been rampant.

[Motown_Johnny]

9. Which Hillary?

She changes positions constantly. The only way to say there is no difference between them is to ignore half of Hillary's positions.



How about considering how each of them would respond if/when pressured to send troops into Syria?


Do you see a difference now?

[bettyellen]

10. Bernie will continue droning overseas- he just claims he'd be "better at it". Nope.

[Motown_Johnny]

11. Ah yes, the one who gave a 19 minute pro IWR speech

will be better than the one who gave a 5 minute anti IWR speech.


(note, Hillary got more time because she was in The Senate while Bernie was in The House and limited to 5 minutes.)


There is the potential for Hillary to be a horrible President. Anyone who changes positions so often just doesn't have what it takes to be a good President.


Remember this. You were warned.

[bettyellen]

13. Sanders foreign policy is non-existent. Like everything else he toes it to economics.Was for regime

Change but thought what? That magically that would cause no violence? It's hard to take him seriously at all.

[pinebox]

35. And Hillary never condoned the use of drones?

[bettyellen]

48. We are talking about Sanders willingness to use drones as well....

Try and keep up!

[NorthCarolina]

17. The campaign Hillary.

Kind of like the campaign Obama, the one who was for a public option before he was against it post election Obama.

[Johnny2X2X]

20. SMH

You don't think Obama wanted a public option??? He got all he could and it barely passed as it was.

[Lord Magus]

22. Are you referring to meme Hillary or real Hillary?

It appears you're talking about meme Hillary.

[uponit7771]

50. +1

[LWolf]

12. This particular survey has been posted over and over.

Last edited Sun Jun 19, 2016, 04:01 PM - Edit history (1)

My results: Sanders, 96%; Stein 95%; Clinton 88%; Johnson, 46%; Trump, 13%.

Are you suggesting I vote for the person on the November ballot I get the highest results from? Because it's not Clinton, and it's a full 7% difference, according to this survey. Personally, I prefer this one:



https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016

I've found it to be the most accurate since I first ran across it 15 years ago or so. I like that it's not U.S.-centric, and I like that it's based on record, not just speeches. I fall in the center of the green "left-libertarian" quadrant.

It points out that Sanders is not nearly as radical as he's been painted, and that Clinton is a very, very long way away from me.

Clinton, of course, is opposite me in the authoritarian right column. Really, quite a bit more than 7% difference.

It's interesting to me that the site's analysis of the compass notes that BOTH economic and social issues have to be included, as Sanders and his supporters have done, while the "other side" has demanded separation of those issues.

This part of the analysis is on point:

The usual understanding of anarchism as a left wing ideology does not take into account the neo-liberal "anarchism" championed by the likes of Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman and America's Libertarian Party, which couples social Darwinian right-wing economics with liberal positions on most social issues. Often their libertarian impulses stop short of opposition to strong law and order positions, and are more economic in substance (ie no taxes) so they are not as extremely libertarian as they are extremely right wing. On the other hand, the classical libertarian collectivism of anarcho-syndicalism ( libertarian socialism) belongs in the bottom left hand corner.

As is this:

A Word about Neo-cons and Neo-libs

U.S. neo-conservatives, with their commitment to high military spending and the global assertion of national values, tend to be more authoritarian than hard right. By contrast, neo-liberals, opposed to such moral leadership and, more especially, the ensuing demands on the tax payer, belong to a further right but less authoritarian region. Paradoxically, the "free market", in neo-con parlance, also allows for the large-scale subsidy of the military-industrial complex, a considerable degree of corporate welfare, and protectionism when deemed in the national interest. These are viewed by neo-libs as impediments to the unfettered market forces that they champion.

A look at other world figures is instructive.



https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2

[Juicy_Bellows]

14. Great post. I'm way out in left field.

Here's where I ended up -

[LWolf]

15. I've done this a bunch over the years.

I always end up somewhere right in the middle of the green.

Interestingly, in the old days when DU was not so blatantly neo-liberal, most DUers who took it ended up in the green, and the Democratic nominee was always in the blue. At that point, of course, numerous rationalizations for the blue candidate would be trotted out, and more U.S.-centric placements designed to make that blue quadrant look like the liberal left would appear.

[Juicy_Bellows]

19. That is interesting.

There certainly seems to be an uptick in Neos and I don't mean Keanu.

[AgadorSparticus]

24. I think most DUers would still end up in the green.

I don't put much stock in this though. Clinton and Sanders voted similarly on many issues and are miles apart. It doesn't add up.

[Lord Magus]

23. "Political Compass" is quite awful.

How do they assign their positions on their "compass" for historical figures and current politicians? Apparently they just plain make it up.

[LWolf]

25. No, it's the most accurate I've ever found.

And they explain quite clearly how they assign their positions.

Systems that assign positions based on speeches rather than actions are "making it up," just as so many politicians make up positions in speeches.

Just because you don't like where "she" lands doesn't make it wrong.

[stevenleser]

30. Accurate based on what? Because it dovetails with your expectations? This graph is a libertarian

invention, designed to undercut Democrats and Liberals and to try to portray everyone as libertarian as possible.

[LWolf]

31. Because they use record, not speeches. nt

[Lord Magus]

32. They LIE about how they assign their positions.

Because the positions they assign to politicians have no basis in reality..

[LWolf]

34. No.

I'm sorry that you can't acknowledge reality. The reality is that looking from outside the U.S. in is going to be more accurate and truthful than anything from within the U.S.

The personal bias is gone.

I'm sorry that your bias is so entrenched that you have to cling to the fantasy of LIE.

[Lord Magus]

40. Their site is entirely based on personal bias.

And simply being outside the US doesn't make them accurate.

[LWolf]

41. Sigh.

You somehow think that if you say it, that makes it so.

It really, really doesn't help convince people to take you seriously when you refuse reality.

[Lord Magus]

46. And you think because their chart validates your own biases that makes them unbiased.

Your counter-factual insistence that Hillary is actually conservative is not reality.

[LWolf]

47. No.

I think that they are unbiased because U.S. elections are not about their government, and I think they are accurate because they use actual records instead of speeches...the walk, not the talk, to determine placement.

This has devolved into comedy; do you perform regularly?

[LanternWaste]

36. The most accurate online tests validate my beliefs as well.

The most accurate online tests validate my beliefs as well. If they don't, then they're not valid. Formal Logic is no match for our circular reasoning borne of bias confirmation.

"Just because you don't like where "she" lands doesn't make it wrong."
One wonders if the corollary is true also?

[LWolf]

38. Could be.

That's why I look outside the U.S., from more neutral sources, for these kinds of things.

[athena]

18. 96% Bernie, 95% Hillary, 94% Stein

I'm a Hillary supporter.

Take that, Bernie supporters who call Hillary supporters conservative.

[Haveadream]

21. Top 3 candidates

97% Hillary Clinton

95% Jill Stein

94% Bernie Sanders

[B Calm]

27. Bernie 99%, Jill Stein 98%, Hillary 95%, Trump 27%

I side with Bernie Sanders on most 2016 Presidential Election issues
Candidates you side with...
99%Bernie Sanders
Bernie Sanders Democratic
on social, immigration, foreign policy, economic, environmental, domestic policy, healthcare, criminal, education, electoral, and science issues.
compare answers
98%Jill Stein
Jill Stein Green
on social, immigration, foreign policy, economic, environmental, healthcare, domestic policy, education, criminal, electoral, and science issues.
compare answers
95%Hillary Clinton
Hillary Clinton Democratic
on social, immigration, economic, foreign policy, domestic policy, environmental, healthcare, criminal, science, and electoral issues.
compare answers
76%Gary Johnson
Gary Johnson Libertarian
on social, immigration, foreign policy, science, and electoral issues.
compare answers
27%Donald Trump
Donald Trump Republican
no major issues.
compare answers

[peacebird]

29. Their RECORDs are very different. Her votes, in her short senate career are few.

Her RECORD, on the other hand, is very long. she vocally supported Bills Crime Bill and Welfare Reform. Bernie was against both.
She voted for IWR, Bernie was against.
She is FOR more h1b visas, and outsourcing, Bernie is against
She is FOR monsanto not labelling gmos, Bernie is against
She pushed for regime change in Libya, Bernie was against
She promoted fracking, Bernie is against.

[Lord Magus]

33. Bernie was against the Crime Bill that HE VOTED FOR?

Now that's flatout comical. And no Hillary's votes in the Senate were not "few" at all. More than enough to have an actual voting record.

Now if you want to say that immigration is a bad thing and promote anti-science hysteria regarding GMOs, be my guest. But don't lie about her record.

[CrowCityDem]

51. If you think that about rather crime bill, you should research Bernie's record more.

[obamanut2012]

37. hahaha 6% Trump!

That shows what a wingnut he indeed is.

[andym]

39. Ontheissues.org is one of the best sites for seeing where a candidate stands now and before

Here is their write up on Hillary Clinton:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

Especially it is useful to look at the votematch section, which is too long to post here.
But here is a summary:

Strongly Favors topic 1:
Abortion is a woman's unrestricted right
(+5 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 2:
Legally require hiring women & minorities
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 3:
Comfortable with same-sex marriage
(+5 points on Social scale)

Favors topic 4:
Keep God in the public sphere
(-3 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 5:
Expand ObamaCare
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 6:
Privatize Social Security
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 7:
Vouchers for school choice
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 8:
EPA regulations are too restrictive
(+5 points on Social scale)

Opposes topic 9:
Stricter punishment reduces crime
(+2 points on Social scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 10:
Absolute right to gun ownership
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 11:
Higher taxes on the wealthy
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 12:
Pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens
(+5 points on Social scale)

Opposes topic 13:
Support & expand free trade
(-3 points on Economic scale)

Opposes topic 14:
Support American Exceptionalism
(-3 points on Economic scale)

Opposes topic 15:
Expand the military
(+2 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 16:
Make voter registration easier
(+5 points on Social scale)

Opposes topic 17:
Avoid foreign entanglements
(-3 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 18:
Prioritize green energy
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Opposes topic 19:
Marijuana is a gateway drug
(+2 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 20:
Stimulus better than market-led recovery
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Each of these opinions are backed by various very specific positions/justifications in the table-- it is very comprehensive...


Here is their graphical rating using American social and economic scales:
-- they use a clearly defined formula to create this graph-- look at the votematch section.




ps-- they have these charts for all of the candidates now and in the recent past

[Johnny2X2X]

44. Excellent site

And again, it shows the same thing, Bernie and Hillary are very closely aligned both in terms of views and records. It doesn't get much clearer than that.

I love Bernie too, but people have to really reach to find more than a few issues he and Sanders truly disagree on. And even with those, how important are they really to people?

[VulgarPoet]

42. Well, I'm vaguely horrified.

98% Sanders, 94% Stein, 94% Clinton. How does this site pull information on the candidates, are we going by speeches or legitimate voting record here?

[yardwork]

43. Mine: 99% Sanders, 99% Stein, 98% Clinton.

I support Clinton.

[surrealAmerican]

45. My results:

Sanders: 98%
Stein: 97%
Clinton: 90%
Johnson: 70%
Trump 28%

I guess it's as much a matter of what you rate as important as it is your answers.

[bigwillq]

49. Sanders, Stein

Clinton third