2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBrexit is not good news for Hillary. She had better
start talking more about anti-austerity, anti-Wall Street, pro-Main Street, pro-labor, jobs, jobs, jobs that pay well. She needs to get adamant about defeating the TPP. She had better start using Bernie's playbook, and mean it.
Brexit was an anti-establishment vote. Right now 22% of Sanders voters say they will vote for Trump.(I am not one of them). We talk a lot about the "women's, Hispanic, AA vote". We need to start looking at another class of voter called the anti-establishment vote. That is a powerful voting bloc in this country, and many of those voters don't care if the anti-establishment candidate is a Republican, Democrat, Independent, Socialist, etc.
This post is critical of Hillary in an attempt to help her. Please, Hillary, fuck Wall Street, choose Warren as your VP and start running on her's and Sanders' economic policies. Otherwise, we just might be waking up in November as surprised as they are in the UK today!
Edit to add:
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-06-22/nearly-half-of-sanders-supporters-won-t-support-clinton
randome
(34,845 posts)Austerity is not the answer but neither is seceding from international agreements and generally throwing cooperation out the window.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Other ways could have been found to ease the economy. Cutting back on national defense, for one. People should have been focused on that instead of being given the opportunity to trash their own stock market.
I'm not British but the ripple effects of this will be profound. And the local affects will now be austerity without the opportunity for easement.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Our economy is intewoven as can be and yet we spend most of our money on "defense". We are not peaceful at all.
randome
(34,845 posts)We have far more weapons than we know what to do with, that's certain, but most aren't put to their intended uses.
And I was mainly talking about the U.K. They could have found other ways than austerity to ease the concerns of the people. We can do the same, all it takes is political will. In the U.S., that means dumping the lazy-ass GOPers.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Do extra weapons bring peace, is that the theory?
Peaceful for whom is a good question too, whom is it peaceful for? There are certainly plenty of displaced people, it's not peaceful for them. What is the metric for "peaceful" that says this is a peaceful era? I think that is depraved bullshit, the modern world has become much more efficient at killing, peaceful my ass.
It's kind of like the EU. the people who voted to leave the EU clearly don't think it benefits them, so all the points about how they are screwing themselves fall on deaf ears.
randome
(34,845 posts)We could cut our military expenditures in half and still feel secure. This is the 21st century. No one's going to invade the United States. That's ridiculous to even imagine.
And the evidence for Great Britain's 'mistake' is already being felt with the stock market plunge and the devaluing of the British pound. The people in this instance were wrong and I don't think it will take them long to see it.
God help us if Trump is President and starts trashing all our international agreements. Our economy is larger than Great Britain's so the effect would be larger, too, I think.
As for this being the most peaceful era in human history: http://www.salon.com/2014/01/15/were_living_through_the_most_peaceful_era_in_human_history_%E2%80%94%C2%A0with_one_big_exception_partner/
Dr. Steven Pinker, Pulitzer prize-winning author and Harvard psychology professor, writes, Today we may be living in the most peaceful era in our species existence. He acknowledges: In a century that began with 9/11, Iraq, and Darfur, the claim that we are living in an unusually peaceful time may strike you as somewhere between hallucinatory and obscene. Pinker points out, wars make headlines, but there are fewer conflicts today, and wars dont kill as many people as they did in the Middle Ages, for instance. Also, global rates of violent crime have plummeted in the last few decades. Pinker notes that the reason for these advances are complex but certainly the rise of education, and a growing willingness to put ourselves in the shoes of others has played its part.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,494 posts)of our tax dollars. They pay the politicians to vote for more and more military spending when probably half of the Pentagon's budget can be classified as waste, fraud and abuse!
lastone
(588 posts)Which, I'm sorry but isn't peaceful for them at all... the "peace" we have attempted to shove down the throat of the mid east is the cause. We are not a peaceful country.
randome
(34,845 posts)Still, by the sheer numbers, this is a more peaceful era than in the past.
lastone
(588 posts)Affected Syria, anyone who claims otherwise is sadly uninformed.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Why did no one stop Cameron from letting this happen? Why does the GOP continue to make our own economy "hold its breath"?
Something has to give but it looks so far as if it's just random foot-stomping instead of any true leadership.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)to counter the threat from the right (UKIP) and get himself reelected.
Monumental miscalculation. He will justifiably be vilified by future generations as the demagogue who destroyed the UK and facilitated the dismantling of the EU.
randome
(34,845 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)to present the real black and white "divorce" terms to the British people for their ultimate approval, once the nuts and bolts have been negotiated with the EU.
For the moment, there is no plan, no way forward. It's all a lot of speculation.
HOW MUCH WILL THIS DIVORCE COST THE BRITISH NATION? WILL THEY BE WILLING TO PAY THE PRICE? That's the unaswered question.
At least for the moment, the price seems to be very steep indeed.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)Shall I start listing all the wars fought over trade issues? Remember the American Tea Party Rebellion? It was the spark for the Revolutionary War. It was about tea. And the confederate war was about labor - the use of slaves. And allowing immigrants unfettered access to a countries' labor markets will reduce everyone's wages. And arguably the French Revolution would Not have happened if the royals had made bread available at low prices.
The opium wars, even the Roman wars were about getting more products and wealth into Rome.
Then of course being intertwined, an economic crash in one country will lead to a crash in another country. To say that economies being interwined is a good thing, is to ignore almost all of history.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)You need to read this:
Secondly, the younger generation has lost the right to live and work in 27 other countries. We will never know the full extent of the lost opportunities, friendships, marriages and experiences we will be denied. Freedom of movement was taken away by our parents, uncles, and grandparents in a parting blow to a generation that was already drowning in the debts of our predecessors.
Thirdly and perhaps most significantly, we now live in a post-factual democracy. When the facts met the myths they were as useless as bullets bouncing off the bodies of aliens in a HG Wells novel. When Michael Gove said, The British people are sick of experts, he was right. But can anybody tell me the last time a prevailing culture of anti-intellectualism has led to anything other than bigotry?
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/24/12023544/brexit-uk-young-voters
fasttense
(17,301 posts)Perhaps they have just traded out oligarchs but they have a better chance of changing things at the local level then at the EU level.
Do you feel your freedom of movement has been restricted here in the US? You have to get visas and passports to leave. We use to be able to go to Canada without passports but the bushes changed all that with the fear of terrorism excuse. Yes, I agree it's a hassle but the UK could set up agreements so that passports and visas are not required.
I don't get what you mean with your anti-intellectualism argument. Stupid people are more likely to be bigots? Is that what you are saying? If so I agree. The reason the crazy right wing is able to con so many into hating so few is because the EU has destroyed their economy and immigrants are an easy excuse.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)ill-informed and misguided vote.
Ignorant, zenophobic Brits are putting the whole European Union and Euro-Zone in jeopardy.
We live here and we know what that means.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)Yes, you have some awful people exploiting a big problem in your governmental economics. I suspect it will happen here in the US too what with Trump and all the crazies.
The only good to come of it is that it will reduce corporatism and free trade BS. Let's hope it gets rid of austerity politics too.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Are you completely unaware of what has just transpired?
The Prime Minister has announced his intention to step down, in which case he is likely to be replaced by the dangerous, extreme RW Boris "the Trump" Johnson.
If you think he has any plans to "reduce corporatism and free trade", or "get rid of auterity politics", you are sadly mistaken and have been sorely duped by somebody.
As for losing the vote? I do NOT live in the UK and am NOT a UK subject. Therefore, I did NOT vote in the referendum yesterday.
Your sincere "concern" is well noted:
"I suspect it will happen here in the US too what with Trump and all the crazies."
fasttense
(17,301 posts)I'm sorry you could not vote.
Yes, even the crazies have to pretend to do what they claim or they will be gone too.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)is because the EU has destroyed their economy."
Utter balderdash. Inform yourself else you appear silly.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2215995
Response to Surya Gayatri (Reply #106)
Post removed
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)present a study of wars occurring between trading partners and between those who arent and prove that there is the same or more between trading partners. An anecdotal response like you just wrote doesnt prove that.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)And if you could control for every variable, it would probobly be inhumane.
My response was NOT anecdotal because I had such a huge amount of examples on my side and you had...nothing but your word. Only one example is required to disprove the hypothesis: "intertwined trading partners are peaceful". Add in the weasel word generally and 5 examples should be enough to disprove the hypothesis.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)30 years of neo-Con. Thatcherism? Dream on.
You are mistaken and misinformed.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)...overnight, equal that?
fasttense
(17,301 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)But the austerity was not imposed by the EU, it was imposed by the UK's own government.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)But EU support of austerity made sure the UK followed along.
I really think those people who lost the most and sank into pverty voted to exit because they blamed the EU.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)It was all the Tory government.
The EU imposed austerity on Greece as a precondition for bailout loans, but Britain didn't need any loans or anything. And the Brits have their own currency, they weren't stuck with EU monetary policy like Spain is. UK's austerity was Cameron's doing.
I agree that the austerity contributed to the vote, but it's not factual to claim there is some kind of link between them.
Renew Deal
(81,842 posts)And the fringe will do what it does despite what reasonable people say
PJMcK
(21,988 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Still think anti-establishment is "fringe"? Looks to be the prevailing sentiment to me.
Renew Deal
(81,842 posts)People that vote for Trump are clearly fringe
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,660 posts)on them being fringe. I was shocked at a large get together the other weekend. People I thought were rather informed on politics said Trump supports thier views. These are people that I thought were not racists, not xenophobic, not really conservative and yes a couple did vote for Bernie Sanders in the primary.
My wife and I did not try to change anyone's position, but rather used the opportunity to learn a little about the why's and wherefore's.
The one most common point that was brought up again from person to person was the distrust of career politicians and the dwindling aspects of the middle class.
They figure Trump, as scary as he is, will be a move away from those problems.
I don't agree with that POV but I'm getting a little worried that we tend to dismiss Trump a little too lightly.
Take this anyway you want. But I'll tell you, it opened my eyes way too wide and I will do anything I can to dissuade anyone from taking this election too lightly.
BTW, I live in suburban Detroit and still am a Bernie supporter. I will vote for and support Hillary Clinton in her quest.
Mr Maru
(216 posts)But willing to do "anything you can" on DU. Got it.
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,660 posts)I either did not state it correctly or you misunderstood. At the party, we had no want to get into a heated political discussion.
At DU, I'm trying to voice my opinion on taking Trump too lightly. Plus these people cannot be considered "fringe".
I figured all here do not need persuasion to not vote Trump.
Excuse me for not being clear enough for you.
Thank you for your reply.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Trump supporters make up a pretty large bloc of Republican voters who are themselves roughly half the country.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Renew Deal, on both the right and left. Although I fail to see why Brexit is a special problem belonging to Hillary, I'm afraid Rateyes is right that many of these populists care far less about who gains power than in kicking the "establishment" they feel has failed and betrayed them in the teeth.
I despise the kind of destructive resentment that causes people to run out and burn their own grocery stores or vote for a Trump out of spite, but when many millions of people are regarding the ballot as a punitive and/or purifying torch they are far too dangerous to ignore.
ismnotwasm
(41,955 posts)Well said
rateyes
(17,438 posts)problem for Hillary is because of how Bill won in 1992. "It's the economy, stupid" was the theme of that campaign.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)any downturns, or any perceived problems of any kind, as the election approaches. As far as economic wellbeing goes, though, according to one major poll a few months ago, don't remember which, a surprising majority felt they're doing okay or better. Millennials, the less educated of whom have gotten a really bad economic deal of the cards, mostly feel optimistic about the future.
brush
(53,726 posts)a fraudulent vitamin seller, a poor businessman who bankrupted casinos, a racist who is hated by Latino Americans, the largest minority voting block in the country, not to mention African Americans, the second largest, who knows little about actual governmental policy, who knows little about Brexit issues (he arrive in Scotland for his golf course opening and began cheering the leave vote, even though Scotland voted to stay, if he had a staff of more than 30 people for the whole country who would have told him that Scotland voted to stay (Hillary has 130 people in just one state), if he had money to run national ads, he might have a slight chance at winning.
But all of the above are true.
He has no chance of winning because of who he is.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)not support him because of who he is but because of what they are and how they are reacting to things that have nothing to do with him. A classic populist movement coalesced around a seemingly "strong" man who expresses resentments and promises very simply with great conviction.
I agree you're going to be right, though, because most conservatives are not the type who support him, and he's making it ridiculously hard for most of those to do the usual conservative thing of getting behind their leader.
Assuming he's on the ballot in November, my guess is an appallingly large number will vote for him but that a sufficient number will just stay home on November 8, with only some crossover voting for Democrats. I'll even bet a whole fiver that turns out to be the case.
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)COMPLETELY STUPID or were never real progressives in the first place, just angry ignorant goofballs shouting "anti-establishment anti-establishment anti-establishment" hysteria with no concept at all of
political theory and the policies which constitute political theories. Trump isn't anti-establishment. He is the poster boy of the CORPORATE ESTABLISHMENT and an ultimate CORPORATE INSIDER. No real progressive with a brain could vote for Trump.
still_one
(92,058 posts)DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)rateyes
(17,438 posts)Their number is legion. There is a reason they are angry. Same reason I am angry. I lost half my retirement value because of Wall Street. I work harder for less. And those with good money had better start paying attention to the angry masses.
TwilightZone
(25,423 posts)rateyes
(17,438 posts)are the same ones Hillary got rich off of, and who are funding her campaign.
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)The "anti-establishment for the sake of anti-establishment" loons can safely be disregarded.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)FSogol
(45,431 posts)Otherwise, I call Bullshit.
still_one
(92,058 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)still_one
(92,058 posts)a hard fought primary, and before the Democratic Convention.
Anyone who is voting for Trump, whether they call themselves Democrats or not, has a bigotry problem.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)trying to nominate the easier Dem candidate for Trump to beat.
Which is why open primaries are a bad idea.
Ilsa
(61,688 posts)I supported SBS, but it isn't even close; HRC has my vote in November.
realmirage
(2,117 posts)rateyes
(17,438 posts)FSogol
(45,431 posts)If you can't see how that doesn't equate to 22% of Sanders supporters saying something, then I certainly can't help you.
rateyes
(17,438 posts)Good news there for Hillary as well. It wasn't a push poll, either. But, since you see something there that I don't why won't you at least try to "help me?"
Here's what I see: I called bullshit on your bullshit, and have no better response from you than more bullshit.
TheBlackAdder
(28,160 posts)rateyes
(17,438 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I pretend people who disagree with me are part of the mythical 'censorship squad' as well. Granted, it's an irrational premise containing zero objective evidence, but it validates out biases, and that's all we need.
Active doody, indeed.
TheBlackAdder
(28,160 posts)rateyes
(17,438 posts)liberal N proud
(60,332 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,365 posts)F***ed themselves. The world will survive.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)Response to rateyes (Original post)
Post removed
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)She better
She better
She better
eom.
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)Because HRC doesn't harangue about what you want, it's now "she had better"? Try paying attention to what she says and what she's been running on, please.
sorry, wasn't in response to you, Her Sister, was in response to the OP
rateyes
(17,438 posts)Her Sister
(6,444 posts)Authoritarian tone is so charming! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE IT!
rateyes
(17,438 posts)you haven't had much to say about the content.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Assume you also realize this will not bode well for Don the Con?
rateyes
(17,438 posts)despite the warnings of what it would do the economy.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)joshcryer
(62,265 posts)He literally called it a great thing in Scotland not even an hour ago right after Scotland called for a second independence referendum. You can't make this up.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)and these morons have no idea what leaving the EU is going to do their country financially...and why you should have a vote like this to begin with
randome
(34,845 posts)Let the people decide these things! Then Great Britain will have government "small enough to drown in a bathtub".
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Everyone gets to see in real time what Trump would do to the economy if elected.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Wall street is gonna take a dive over this too I bet.
There goes a bunch of 401k money. Bye-bye!
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Trump presidency would entail.
ismnotwasm
(41,955 posts)She does. She has a LOT of labor backing her.
I don't agree with your premise, that "she had better" or that Brexit is "not good news" for Hillary, because repeating one word memes as talking points to describe complex situations is a not a valid argument.
Kennah
(14,234 posts)forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)except that the Brexit vote was largely a vote against POC immigration, with "anti-establishment" and "sovereignity" used as the fig leaves just like "abstract stuff like taxes" was a fig leaf for Atwater (except Trump has ripped off the fig leaf and is spinning it around)
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)riversedge
(70,033 posts)NOT.
Tarc
(10,472 posts)This is an anti-Europe, pro-British Nationalist vote, the British version of Trump's Brownshirt radicals carried the day over there, it isn't something to celebrate, and certainty isn't a negative to Hillary. If anything, she uses this to show hoe dangerous Trump's fear-based nationalism can be.
riversedge
(70,033 posts)these folks are claiming Trump can win--and the way to avoid it is for Hillary to adapt Sanders views on many items (free college and health care to name a few). They are using the Leave Vote as a fear factor.
I expect to hear more of this.
Later--work is calling.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Skinner
(63,645 posts)It's not a death blow by any stretch of the imagination. But I think it should be considered a shot across the bow for her campaign.
The fact that the leave side outperformed expectations is problematic. Brexit is clearly analogous to Trumpism: Against greater international integration, against immigration, against establishment elites.
Obviously the UK is a separate country, so the analogy can only go so far. But clearly this has tapped into something very powerful and very raw. Hillary needs to offer an alternative to people who feel they have been screwed by the global economy.
swhisper1
(851 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)And I hate to say it, but those are the ideas that appealed to the Brexiters and the Trumpsters. The reality of how to live in an inevitably globalizing world is way more complicated than hating the other and passing punishing tariffs.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)My point is that Hillary Clinton needs to offer something that appeals to people who feel they have been screwed by the global economy, and who are therefore receptive to the Trump/Brexit message of isolation, nationalism and nativism.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)At least, I don't know what can be presented in simple slogans. I think there are ways to deal with this, but I guess I'm trying to say that a lot of folks feeling that way want a simple solution... with someone to blame. The real solutions don't lend themselves well to stuff like "Make America Great Again." It's more like "Participate in a complicated global economy while protecting worker rights and environment!" That doesn't fit on a hat!
w4rma
(31,700 posts)Open your ears and listen.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)But the primaries are over, right?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Brexit, which was engineered primarily by the far-right UKIP party, which is a fascist party, is not going to make any kind of improvement in the lives of folks in the UK. I use the analogy that Brexit as a measure to help the lives of those who feel left behind by the global economy is like reacting to a fly landing on your forehead by smashing yourself in the forehead with a sledgehammer. There is a chance you might kill the fly, but there is a greater chance you wont and you will have the damage from the sledgehammer besides which is far worse than anything the fly might normally do.
As bad as UKIP is, they actually have some folks who have some policy ideas, as terrible as they are. Which makes them marginally better than Trump.
Hillary is going to have a lot of help by folks on the left and right who realize that they may disagree with Hillary on the issues but she is not going to be the disaster Trump would be. Sadly, the issues facing our economy in terms of the folks who feel left behind are not simple, can't be solved quickly and are certainly not going to be solved by blunt measures like Brexit or anything Trump has in mind.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)The EU took control away from individual countries and gave it to corporate backed politicians who thought austerity was a good thing.
Yes, some crazy right wingers also supported it but they tapped into the unfettered cheap labor undermining wages anger. People know unfettered immigration is a way to reduce wages. But the crazy right wingers turn it into racism.
But corporations love cheap labor and don't mind destroying the middle class and crashing economies to boot. If the EU was such a great thing, why did they suffer the crash and promote austerity as the solution?
.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)two things.
1. UKIP promised that Brexit would free up a ton of money for things like additional healthcare expenditures. They have already admitted that this was not true
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/nigel-farage-admits-his-bold-brexit-claim-was-mistake
2. Isolationism - Folks were upset about immigration and were told all their problems were because of, as you put it, cheap labor elsewhere in Europe.
In other words, this entire event is a sad victory for extreme far right politics. Genuine Fascism, which is what UKIP is all about.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)are also the arguments I hear about free trade agreements. Unfortunately we can't op out of those awful agreements.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)fasttense
(17,301 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)They just didn't realize it.
glennward
(989 posts)is really really bad...wait until it isn't.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)This decision affects Trump much more than Hillary.
You can go back to your corner now and strategize some more.
rateyes
(17,438 posts)looking at initial reaction from the markets. Yesterday the DOW rose over 200 pts. Right now it's down a little over 400. So, about 200 points down over 2 days. Let's see where it is a month from now.
Ok, now, back to my corner!
ALBliberal
(2,333 posts)I believe she will easily have large support of Democrats. I believe they will come out in force to vote for her. Bernie Sanders garnered a lot of support from Independents. Hillary can win these voters over with a more populist message. The Brexit outcome backs this up. It's not just about beating Trump. We have a golden.opportunity to engage Independents, new voters and young voters. The possibilities are huge for Hillary to expand the breadth of our party in sheer numbers as well as flip house and Senate seats. I believe she will take every advantage of the opportunity.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Cut it out session with unnamed corporate CEOs. Nothing is going to change. I think Obama truly thought he could and wanted to, but he was inexperienced with the way of the DC Beltway.
But then he did not speak before The Financial Establishment. An old Molly Ivin's saying in her southern drawl and vernacular ..." You've gotta dance with them that brung you."
God, I miss her and Keith Olbermann.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Unnamed. I bet the source was also "unamed". Please
ericson00
(2,707 posts)she can talk steady and predictable leadership. In fact, she just tweeted it https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/746352589407674368
timlot
(456 posts)Hell the news media has already moved on from Orlando.
sabbat hunter
(6,827 posts)Bernie voter turns around and votes for Trump, then they are fucking morons.
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)Given that she was opposed to the thing that is pounding the stock market, I think it makes her look pretty good. Her opponent supported it, which means that something he supports is already destroying our economy and he isn't even in power yet.
Response to rateyes (Original post)
Post removed
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)A President can't be "anti-Wall Street", they have to be working for everyone equally. Easy to say anti-Wall Street, but a lot harder to actually do anything. Hillary has held many public gatherings in smaller more intimate groups - Main Street if there ever was. Most labor unions have been backing Hillary all along. Of her largest contributors are building trades unions. They know who will help them. A President can't wave a magic wand an jobs of any pay level can't just appear. Those will take time, but can get moving with investment in our infrastructure - a point she has been hitting on. She has stated that she is against the TPP after reading what was in the agreement. Bernie's playbook? She schooled Bernie and his playbook by about 3.5 million votes.
She can't fuck Wall Street and should not even try. But with better control and regulation she can even the playing field. About that surprise? it really isn't a surprise. Polls were showing a very close vote and wavering between stay and go.
If I were you and other Sanders supporters, I'd be out trying to get as many of you to vote for Hillary as possible.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)You can pound away at immigrants in the U.K and still win a referendum after completely losing their vote, something which a majority of them didn't have to begin with. You can't do that in the U.S. You can't do that with the electoral college. Donald Trump can bring out all the anti-establishment white people in South Carolina, but if he does it by pissing off AA, women, and hispanic voters in other more diverse states, he is going to be royally screwed. As to how she should run the race, sure she's going to adapt her message, but it would be a folly for any politician to run on a playbook that couldn't win in a primary.
And another thing about this is that the Brexit, largely thought to something analogous to Trumpism, won by a slim 51% in a 87% white country. The U.S. is 72% white (and 64% non-hispanic white). Those messages only work when the majority ethnic group is large enough and solidified enough, which is not the case in the U.S., that they can overcome the votes of the folks you piss off.
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)and more jobs, jobs, jobs.
Women's, LGBT and. POC votes are anti-establishment votes.
She's got this.
RandySF
(58,432 posts)The Republicans said it spelled doom for Bill Clinton and tried to replicate the Tories' campaign. This Brexit vote was mostly a referendum on immigration.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)This is about the future of our country. If Hillary loses she will be just fine, thank you. It's the nation that will be screwed. I hope that the Brexit vote woke up those who are navel gazing and thinking whether they will or will not vote for Hillary.
And no, Warren shouldn't be her VP. She's far more valuable to Democrats in the Senate.
pansypoo53219
(20,950 posts)MAJORITY of humans.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Thanks.
rateyes
(17,438 posts)You're welcome!