2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumalcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)The campaign is in the hands of professionals.
A wonderful and moving ad.
mcar
(42,298 posts)Gothmog
(145,079 posts)mopinko
(70,071 posts)hope it goes into heavy rotation.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)This is one for the history books. Seems like the HRC campaign is now switching from the diss Trump phase to the positive inspirational phase. Hope they run this ad everywhere.
MyOwnPeace
(16,925 posts)And compare that to what Drumpf says:
"I'd date my daughter..................."
Wow, what does THAT say about "Making America Great?"
sheshe2
(83,721 posts)TXCritter
(344 posts)THAT's the kind of campaign that I haven't been seeing.
niyad
(113,229 posts)TXCritter
(344 posts)Outside of DU and the convention, Clinton supporters are virtually silent. In contrast Berners we loud and joyous in their support. I've seen a lot of anti-Trump campaigning and I'm good with that. But I've never been excited about Hillary. (Quite the opposite - I seriously dislike that two families will hold the presidency for 28 years or more.) I would be excited to support Warren.
Part of the reason my support for Hillary is luke warm is that her own supporters are so quiet. I rarely hear why she is good only why the opponent is bad.
I'll vote for her, sure but she's never been a politician I'm excited about.
niyad
(113,229 posts)me that the msm in this country has been so vicious to her for so many decades that many cannot list any of her accomplishments, nor do they realize that she is one of the most admired people in the world (of course, the rest of the world is not subject to our msm)
TXCritter
(344 posts)I will vote for a competent candidate even though I'm not excited. Such candidates can be extremely effective legislators. But executives need to inspire. That's what made Obama such a great candidate, he really inspired people. People saw him as a way forward. With Hillary, a lot of people see her as a defense against the reactionary forces but not as someone who will move us forward.
So, in between the time that I reviewed records and made my decisions I have been watching her campaign and her supporters and too many have pulled the "it's not my job to educate you" line. They are defensive, not excited. It's hard to get excited about that situation.
niyad
(113,229 posts)do is look. it is not about being defensive (nice slam there, by the way) it is about people expecting others to do their work for them. use whatever excuses you like, but the insults (however subtly delivered) are old, and tiresome, as is the "I just cannot get excited" about someone who has worked tirelessly for women, for children, for a better world for all of us, for her entire adult life.
TXCritter
(344 posts)If I took that approach in the things I advocate for, I'd accomplish nothing.
"someone who has worked tirelessly for women, for children, for a better world for all of us, for her entire adult life."
I can list scores of people who fit that description or similar. Most are unknown. A few might make good presidents, most wouldn't. They excite me as people but they wouldn't as politicians.
This is POLITICS. It's about people and influencing people. It's not just about records and platforms and logic. It's about leadership. It's unsafe, dirty and scary. It's a fine veil between us and violence. If it's not your job to educate as supporters, then what the hell is your job? To give money and watch the Kardashians?
You've just proven to me that Hillary's small lead isn't her fault, it's because her supporters won't stand up for her as she stands up for them.
niyad
(113,229 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)now why are some voters responsible to educate and inspire you? They are just voters like you. You put yourself on some pedestal of special.
Leadership is the thing people use when they don't want to deal with all those complicated issues. We elect representatives, not leaders. It is not the President's job to inspire us; we need to get on with our own lives and inspire ourselves to do something useful. It's like Donald going on about "strength" and "leadership" - we aren't just followers in our system.
TXCritter
(344 posts)I didn't ask for you to educate me. I asked for you to show me your enthusiasm. I'll leave it to you to read the rest of my comments to find out I already did educate myself months ago. yet, for 22 years the argument I've heard from the Clinton camp is that "He (now she) is the only one who can win."
You don't win with platforms. You win by gaining votes. You can have the best platform on earth but, with no supporters, you can't win. If it's really about platforms then why all the yard signs? Why the bumper stickers? Why the phone banks?
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)...would have to say it? And in how many places would they have to say it? I'm sure we can direct you to the right number of passionate and enthused supporters, in the places you want to see them, to make you easier about voting for this candidate....if you'll let us know what you're after. As for why it may seem that Hillary supporters so quiet...I think a lot of those supporters, like Hillary, are too busy working to get her elected to gush and enthuse about her on the internet. Unlike so many Trump supporters who seem to be doing nothing else In the end, however, you don't have to be excited about her.
Trump supporters are VERY excited about him. Does that make him a good candidate? Bush supporters were very excited about him, too. Did that make him a good candidate? And, of course, Reagan supporters were over the moon about him. It's awesome when we can feel that we have an excellent presidential candidate who also excites us like Obama. But it's dangerous to think that we MUST be excited, and, thus, end up ignoring candidates who could really do amazing things for us, simply because they aren't...exciting.
In the tortoise and the hare story, the hare is exciting. But if he can't finish the race, what good is he? We can get excitement from a lot of places. Getting someone who keeps going and wins the race for us...that rare. We don't often get that. And even if it's not in an exciting package, we ought to support it and be glad we've got it. Otherwise...all we'll end up with is a race between a lot of hares, and no winning anything.
TXCritter
(344 posts)What do they have to say?
"I'm really excited that Hillary is running and here's one or two reasons."
How many places?
Outside of DU and the Convention. Facebook, blogs. In the office. Really, in the same places I heard Berners yelling and Trumpers ranting. Given my circles I'd like to hear more Clinton support than Trump support.
How many people? I saw a never ending stream of Bernie advocacy. I see excited Johnson supporters, ardant Stein supporters and I have heard incoherent vocalizations from Trumpers... OK, I had to eventually block that last bit. Trumpers really are delusional.
From Clinton supporters I hear why Bernie was bad, why Trump is bad, why third parties are a waste BUT for all that traffic I never hear why they are FOR Clinton. I have had people I know outright refuse to do so. Sure I can find it if I look. I can find anything on the internet. But that's different from organic propagation through supporters.
Hillary should be up 20 points, not 5. This election should be a 1984 landslide in reverse. But, outside of safe spaces, her supporters are quiet.
nolabear
(41,959 posts)I was literally online stalked by several Bernie supporters and insulted for everything from my gender to my stupidity to my lack of caring for those who died in Iraq. I have never insulted back but they just wouldn't let up. My family of origin is unremittingly RW and we can't talk. Trumpsters...well, you can get hurt. I learned eventually that Bernie or Trump people will bulldoze you, so my many, many Hillary supporting friends work quietly and enthusiastically. We'll vote. And we'll do our best to support policies that will help everyone, even those who have made our lives hard this past year.
TXCritter
(344 posts)I have to acknowledge that your story is not uncommon. It frustrates me to no end. From Trumpers this doesn't surprise me though I have yet to meet this style of Berner directly. When I do I am going to have a man-to-boy "talk" with them about valid forms of advocacy. (Yes, I'm making a big assumption because these basement-dwellers plague several areas of interest for me and they all have the same demographic.)
I wish I had a better answer than that.
nolabear
(41,959 posts)I have always respected his ideals and think his contributions have been wonderful; it just wasn't possible to start that kind of change at the top. I hope the work begins at the ground level and the enthusiasm translates into action. Most of the people who've worked for him are being pragmatic and pushing through the understandable disappointment. Sadly, some have moved over to Johnson or Stein and continue to scream invectives.I'm not happy about the loss of those "protest" votes, but hey, America.
Thanks for the kind words. More than ANYTHING else we have to stop Trump. I can't BELIEVE I'm saying those words...
But one bad apple... as the saying goes. That one bad actor can drown out a thousand positive voices.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Predicating a collective enthusiasm on your anecdotal experiences is flawed reasoning and illustrates a dramatic lack of rational thought.
As for the rest of your unsupported allegations and logical fallacies... well, they're merely unsupported allegations and logical fallacies, regardless of the specious irrelevancies of your given circles.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)...to enthuse about Clinton in order to get you excited about voting for her? I kinda think that'd be a little hard for us to do, as we don't know where you work and whether Clinton supporters there would agree. I mean, I *GET* what you're after. You're after that Bernie comradely. That feeling like you're marching shoulder to shoulder with fellow voters to change the world.
I can tell you there ARE Hillary voters like that out there, but there are also quiet ones, shy ones, ones who are in hiding because they were beaten up during the primary and don't want to go through that again. Also ones that fear that Trump supporters will kill their dog (happened to some very enthuiastic Clinton supporters). If Clinton supporters at your work ARE like that, worried that their tires will be slashed by Trump supporters if they speak up...then there's no way we can make them as you want and need them. They are what they are. And it's brave enough that they're voting for her, let alone speaking up and arguing for her.
What I can tell you is that I do have a Hillary campagin place near me, and there is a LOT going on there. There are evening talks every night of the week that people attend, and the lights are on late into the night for these. Supporters can watch the debates there, etc. Maybe it's not the office where you should be looking for these fellow voters to enthuse and energize you. Maybe you should drop in on one such place and see if you can find it there? Because, unfortunately, Trump supporters have become dangerous, and not all Hillary supporters feel safe standing shoulder to shoulder and shouting "We're with her!" Some don't even feel safe putting a bumper sticker on their car or a banner on their lawn. It's not because of any lack of enthusiasm on their part, it's simply the smart thing to do.
TXCritter
(344 posts)Totally by coincidence one of my facebook friends just posted exactly what I was looking for. I've found my one I shall spare Sodom and Gomorrah.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)don't feel we need to be loud and raucous like Bernners were
She has a very open and public record and it isn't hard to know the real Hillary.
The problem is that her detractors are louder and mostly selling lies.
TXCritter
(344 posts)But the fight is too important to give in to exhaustion.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)No one has given in to anything
athena
(4,187 posts)then what are you doing here? Seriously. The loudest side in this race is not the Democratic side.
If you really care to find out about HRC, there is plenty of information out there. Just do a Google search. Here is something to get you started:
Hillary Clinton Wants to Talk to You about Love and Kindness
TXCritter
(344 posts)I support her because of her record. Whether or not I'm "excited" about her - i.e. willing to donate time, money, energy or believe things will truly get better is a separate issue. And yes, whether her supporters are excited and how they demonstrate that support are important. That's why my time and money are going to a down ballot race instead.
athena
(4,187 posts)Why should the loudness or quietness of a politician's supporters influence your support in any way? If you go by loudness, then the biggest demagogue deserves your strongest, most heartfelt support.
Hillary's strongest supporters tend to be people who work hard all day long, sometimes at multiple jobs. They don't have time to argue about politics. If you wonder why they're quiet, then you don't know them at all.
"my support for Hillary" i.e. That I DO support her. THEN I said "is luke warm" which is an orthogonal component. All she needs is my vote. She has that. She could have my dollars. She could have my time.
I work all day. I have multiple jobs. The people I encounter certainly have the time to argue politics but they spend it denigrating the other candidate instead of expressing support for their own.
ColemanMaskell
(783 posts)niyad
(113,229 posts)meow2u3
(24,761 posts)SpankMe
(2,957 posts)Best quote ever, and really the way to go.
And, completely alien to conservative thinking. The Cons measure success by how much money they can get and how many guns they own.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,988 posts)UCmeNdc
(9,600 posts)Mme. Defarge
(8,026 posts)is not the brilliant concept, but its authenticity.
ProudProgressiveNow
(6,129 posts)oasis
(49,370 posts)C_U_L8R
(44,997 posts)Nice job Team Hillary
treestar
(82,383 posts)smorkingapple
(827 posts)I was wondering why she spent so much time bashing Trump in ads vs building herself up. Better late than never
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)They destroyed him.
The campaign knows a lot more than its various critics.