I had a conversation with a right to lifer, and he said I should vote against Hillary

[JRLeft]

because she's a baby killer, and wants to destroy the pro life movement. I replied if she did that she would become my favorite president of all time.

He said why and I replied because the right to life movement doesn't work to reduce abortions or attempt to educate people about contraception.

Reduced pregnancies equals less abortions.

His response was contraception usage is preventing life, by playing God.

WTF?

Those people are insane.

😂😂😂😂😂

[Wounded Bear]

1. Hysterical laughter sometimes works....

[JRLeft]

2. Believe me I laughed in his face because the right to life crowd is irrational.

[Wounded Bear]

5. Good for you...

[JRLeft]

8. The sad thing is he truly believes he has the better position even though the numbers are on our

side and not his.

[meadowlark5]

3. My cousin posted some picture of FB - she's a big right to lifer (that's a misnomer)

The picture said something to the effect of "my body, my decision" then next to that was a picture of a baby over a sign that said "then make that decision *before* you conceive me". I wanted to respond, "then give women the education and tools to do just that. Abstinence only is not education as people will have sex whether you want them to or not. Sex education, affordable birth control. Then maybe that would happen."

But I have decided not to engage any crazy. I've done it in the past. It does no good and only frustrates me.

[JRLeft]

4. They just dig in. Reason and logic have no impact at all.

[LisaM]

26. Which brings up a larger question....

Why does the right-to-life crowd only blame women for these pregnancies? If they care so much, they should be intent on tracking down and "shaming" the fathers too. With the DNA tools we have, this should not be difficult.

[vlyons]

37. Because for thousands of years, the church

especially the Catholic church, has preached that sex is sinful, unless practiced within marriage. Women are viewed as tempting and seducing men, because men cannot control themselves. Also a long long history of not understanding how babies are made. That is, a patriarchal society needs to insure that property and wealth are inherited by the father's children. There's no way to insure that, unless women are isolated and controlled. For a very long time, women were even blamed and considered defective for not producing males, producing only daughters. When we know now that it is the male parent that determines the sex of babies, while it is the female parent that determines the number of babies in each pregnancy. Not easy to over-ride thousands of years of stupidity. That's why we have to do a better job of making a woman's right to control her own body to be the higher moral position. If a woman chooses to take a pregnancy to term, that is her right, but not to impose that decision on others. We need to insure that we control the Supreme Court. It is the court that the RWers most want to own.

[LynneSin]

53. Why do we shame undocumented workers when it's Americans that hire them

It makes no sense whatsoever but people do it anyways.

In the end it's essentially white men making these choices and they do it because they know they can get away with it and no one will shame them for it.

Not all white men are like that, but enough of them to make our lives miserable.

[Delmette]

66. What you wrote!!

I have been telling friends and family since Donald Trump's first announcement to run for president. It is not the undocumented immigrants fault they got hired for a job. It is the fault of the manager or CEO who allowed undocumented immigrants to be hired. Usually these immigrant's are paid below minimum wage.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

35. And the fact that contraceptives sometimes fail,

or that rapists usually aren't considerate enough to use a condom, matters not a bit to these idiots.

[napi21]

6. Must havee been an older Catholic. I'm 73 and thatt's what I was taught.

I imagine all Catholics were taught that at one time, but VERY, VERY FEW practice it anymore.

The theory of playing God" could be applied to almost anything: taking medicine, surgery, wearing glasses, or anything that would alter your life. Of course they don't agree with that. When I ask what the difference is, I'm told that God gave man the ability to discover medicines and procedures to help yourself. Of course, I guess that doesn't include BBC pills, huh?

[JRLeft]

10. The right to life movement is about control.

That is the underlying issue, women must obey men. The Catholic Church has always been against masturbation and sex for pleasure, that's what my ex's grandfather told me.

[charliea]

38. The Catholic upbringing!

I'm 10 years younger than you, attended Catholic grade schools and a Catholic high school run by the Jesuits. The rhythm method was mentioned as the approved Catholic means of birth control but by the late 60's when I was in high school we got what I thought was broad survey of sexuality and human reproductive biology as part of the our biology class. It specifically showed that the rhythm method was inherently unreliable. What do you call people who rely on the rhythm method? Parents.

If I recall correctly, surveys from the time indicated something like 90% of American Catholics disagreed with doctrine by then, it may have gone down some by now after more than 40 years of propaganda against Roe v. Wade but it's still an overwhelming majority ( https://thinkprogress.org/birth-control-goes-against-catholicisms-teachings-but-most-catholics-use-it-anyway-d22f2da560a1#.13say2tkq )

It sounds like most Catholic women want to be in charge of their lives, excellent.

[napi21]

47. Do you really think it's still an overwhelming majority? Im not so sure. The really strict

supporters of the no contraception rule are getting old and dying off. I know my sons, age 50 & 47 both don't believe in it, and never have. I too went to Catholic grade & high school, and none of my former classmates (that I know of) believed in it either. We ALL were on the pill and that was 50 years ago. I don't think it's a majority anymore. Its just a very loud minority that keep the belief alive.

[csziggy]

7. Ask him why the "right to life" movement wants to KILL women

In Florida they have introduced a bill to allow the death penalty for women who have abortions.

Ask him (aside from the issue why HE has any right to control any woman's body) how a so called "right to life" movement is in favor of the death penalty at all.

Ask him why the "right to life" movement does not advocate for pre- and post-natal care for ALL women and children - which would save far more lives than banning abortion and contrceptives.

Then ask him if he masturbates, because masturbation is preventing life - every single one of his sperm should be making another baby.

If he doesn't want to answer the masturbation question, then ask him why he should have any say in any women's control of her own body.

Then tell him to fuck off.

[JRLeft]

9. He believes masturbation is a sin; which means he probably does it a lot.

Fundamentalists are the biggest consumers of porn.

[csziggy]

13. Well, I believe men should not control women's bodies

In addition, studies over the last forty years have proven that making abortion illegal does not reduce abortions, it only causes more women to die from botched abortions. What reduces abortions is better sex education and more availability of contraception. Keeping people ignorant and not giving them choices leads to many bad results including more unwanted pregnancies and more abortions to get rid of unwanted fetuses.

[JRLeft]

16. That makes 2 of us. I agree with you 100%.

[PatSeg]

46. And I think more men should have

control over their own bodies. If they are so against abortions, perhaps they should choose to abstain from sex.

[3catwoman3]

52. If I were a man, I would be highly...

...insulted by the supposition that I could not control my behavior.

[PatSeg]

60. Yet some men

appear to take pride in their lack of control evidently equating it with sexual prowess. Obviously I know this does not apply to all men, but I think it does with the ones who are always trying to control women and their bodies.

[csziggy]

67. Or get THEIR tubes tied!

Many men are not taught to take responsibility for themselves - that is why we see so many people who have to blame all their woes on others.

I am lucky. My husband was very well taught by his mother to be responsible and to respect women and their wishes.

[PatSeg]

70. Seriously

So often I've seen situations where when an unmarried couple get pregnant, guys are treated as if they aren't really responsible - "guys will be guys" attitude - but the girls/women are often raked over the coals, heavily criticized, and scorned. After all, the boys/men just can't help themselves, it apparently being their nature.

I raised a son on my own and my primary objective was to raise a "good man". He is far from perfect, but he is a devoted husband and father, taking his share of responsibility in the relationship. There were a number of dire warnings from me when he was a teenager!

[JRLeft]

71. Two engaged in the act of created a child both parties should be held accountable.

It's rarely the case women are mistreated just from having more than one sexual partner where men are treated as conquerors.

[demigoddess]

22. I have a relative who believes that all the male descendants of her father are great

all the females they marry are trashy. She even disrespects her own mother. Doesn't make sense, does it?

[csziggy]

68. I'd ask why her father did not teach his daughters better

And why his sons have not taught THEIR daughters better! There has to be some disfunction in that family if her premise is true or to lead her to believe that.

My father had a mother and an aunt who were college educated in the early 1900s. His mother left her first husband, got a divorce in 1916 and worked on her own until she remarried in 1921. Her sister never married and was a college professor. He married a woman who is really smart and outranked him when he was a submarine officer and she was a Navy Nurse.

So when Dad had four daughters, he and Mom made sure we all got college degrees. They taught us to think for ourselves and to be self reliant. Mom repeatedly told us to never have to rely on a man for a living.

So hearing about women who don't respect other women disturbs me. I suspect your relative does not respect herself at all. Someday I hope she gains more self respect and understanding of her attitudes.

[packman]

50. Dammit, you beat me to it

I was about to post the exact same video - love my monty

[Vogon_Glory]

11. They're Against Birth Control? And You're Only Finding This Out NOW???

You're only finding out NOW that anti-abortion zealots are also against birth control?


Wakey, Wakey! Many of us who've been in the reproductive rights struggle for years have been aware that anti-abortion fanatics are as hostile to the pill, IUDs, condoms, and diaphragms as they are to abortion and have been for DECADES. What on Earth took you so long to realize the obvious?

Anti-abortion zealots want to use the threat of pregnancy as a tool to punish sec for recreational purposes and to keep women strictly as mothers and house-wives. There's no reasoning with them. Look what happened to pro-choice Republicans: they've been sidelined or silenced.

There may once have been a time when Club Pachyderm allowed dissent from anti-abortion dogma. But that was then, this is now.

I could go on as to how they've become a threat to public health. My state, Texas has a mothers' child-birth mortality rate approaching several Third World countries--thanks to the anti-abortion zealots in the Texas legislature and the Texas governor's mansion.

[JRLeft]

12. I was surprised about them being against masturbation.

I knew about that because of the Hyde amendment, but I hadn't realized how deep it went with a lot of the supporters.

[Martin Eden]

40. They think it causes blindness

... but Ma, can I do it just until I need glasses??

[hamsterjill]

14. They are insane.

They've been indoctrinated to the point that they cannot listen to any opinion that is different from what they've been fed.

Don't waste your time. Move on. Be thankful you are not as easily led to slaughter as those types.

[JRLeft]

18. You're right because the more evidence you provide them, the

more it reinforces their wrong belief system.

[hamsterjill]

20. I live amongst them.

I'm in Texas and we have a big share of these loonies. They scream prolife, but they are very eager to eradicate anything that doesn't agree with them.

We just have to out-vote them! Go vote yourself, take as many like-minded people with you as you can. I'll be doing the same. Accept my thanks for doing your part!

[JRLeft]

21. I live on the coast of California, cons have no chance in the bay area and

no chance in Santa Monica where I'm moving to.

[workinclasszero]

15. Show the "right to lifer" this article

Hillary Clinton Is the Best Choice for Voters Against Abortion

http://www.christianpost.com/news/hillary-clinton-is-the-best-choice-for-voters-against-abortion-170258/#rZk73SPuTeD0RzAp.99

[JRLeft]

17. If I see him again I will show him the article and ask him if I could record him.

[workinclasszero]

48. I just have to bet the "pro-life" person will still be

a reliable republican voter anyway.

[JRLeft]

62. The Republicans lie to them every election, but I believe Pence would actually push for

those draconian measures.

[workinclasszero]

63. But here's the thing

If the republicans actually outlawed all abortion, these wingnuts would wake up and realize the party only exists to screw them and their families out of everything they got.

The republican party outlawing abortion would be party suicide IMO.

[JRLeft]

72. Exactly it's a scam.

[workinclasszero]

74. That's been my opinion

for a long time.

[JRLeft]

76. If they get rid of abortion it's one less issue to fundraise from.

It's a big money pull.

[wildeyed]

19. How many kids does he have?

If he thinks that contraception is playing god, I would expect that he has many. But usually what they mean is that slutty women (but not their wives or girlfriends) need to be punished and controlled. What better way to do that than forcing them to bear children they are not equipped to raise, then cutting off all the social safety nets? It is disgusting and cruel, but that doesn't seem to occur to them at all....

The modern IUD could render abortion nearly obsolete in this country. They are much safer now and pretty much goof proof. If we provided them for free to any woman who asked, we could dramatically decrease abortions and dramatically improve the lives of so many women and existing children.... It hurts my heart when jackasses like the guy you were debating say such ignorant, cruel things.

Also, if he think that Trump gives a shit about the "unborn", he really is gullible.

[MrScorpio]

23. If there were no abortions, these people would lose their will to live.

Right to life is pro-abortion.

[Stonepounder]

24. I grew up in the '50's and '60's

When I was a kid we had a catholic family living next door. Back then, Catholics did believe in no birth control and no abortion. We started laughing when they had enough kids for a baseball team and started getting concerned when they had enough for their own football team.

The two things that really, really get me about the 'right to life' crowd are:

-there is still the attitude that a guy who has numerous 'conquests' is a real man, but a woman who has sex outside marriage is somehow 'immoral'.

-they really are not 'right to life' they are 'right to be born' and then it stops. They are violently against any sort of welfare, be it SNAP, TANF, welfare, paying for post-natal care, paying taxes for better schools, etc. And if a woman wants child-support from an absent father who has to jump through all sorts of hoops. There is absolutely no logic to it at all.

[Mz Pip]

25. We "Play God" all the time

It's not just about contraception. We vaccinate to prevent disease, we take antibiotics to cure infections, we use electricity to keep away the dark, the cold, the heat. All of these advances in science circumvent the will of God, if that's the point he's trying to make.

He's singling out contraception when I suspect he uses plenty of things that allow him to "play God."

[3catwoman3]

80. My glasses are interfering with...

...Gawd's will, if we want to take things to a ridiculous extreme.

[apnu]

27. Don't argue on their terms, its giving them a win. Instead try this...

Argue about free will and choice. Anti-Choice is about restricting free will. Free Will, to the Christian is what seperates us from the Angels and puts us special in God's eyes.

Or go with Tim Kaine's approach.

Asked/said directly to Pence:

“Why don’t you trust women to make this choice for themselves? We can encourage people to support life, of course, we can, but why don’t you trust women? Why doesn’t Donald Trump trust women to make this choice for themselves. That’s what we ought to be doing in public life — living our lives of faith or motivation with enthusiasm and excitement convincing each other, dialoguing with each other about important moral issues of the day, but on fundamental issues of morality, we should let women make their own decisions.“

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/10/5/1578030/-What-Democratic-VP-nominee-Tim-Kaine-said-that-won-the-debate

[radius777]

75. the Kaine/Biden approach is best, also the Bill Clinton 'safe, legal and rare.'

Because it casts the abortion debate both in abstract terms (the role of gov't over health choices) and pragmatic terms (unplanned pregnancies are inevitable, don't want to back to the days of back-alley abortions).

When it's cast as too much of a religous warfare or gender warfare issue - that immediately divides Dems (many of who are more socially conservative, i.e. Catholics) along religous and gender lines - as it did in the 70's and 80's before Bill Clinton came along and found a way to 'sell' it to middle America.

[Kablooie]

28. He should learn how many times Trump has paid for abortions.

Quite a few I'd bet.

I wish some news investigator would research this.

[vlyons]

29. Abstinence is also a form of birth control

It's just not the ONLY form, and has been proven to be not very effective, because humans all to frequently can't live up to prolonged abstinence. How in the world did we let pro-lifers own this issue for so long? We need to do a better job of making a woman's right to control her own body to be the more moral position.

[Kablooie]

31. Hell, for that matter, having sex is playing God.

[keithbvadu2]

30. The supposed pro-lifers have no qualms about playing God

ChristianPost: Hillary Clinton Is the Best Choice for Voters Against Abortion

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512473026

------------------------------

The supposed pro-lifers had no qualms about playing God when the State of Texas deliberately killed living baby Sun Hudson against the mother's wishes because the baby was an inconvenience to the state.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

32. "Playing god"? But they are real comfy with high black deaths by cop and brown deaths by drones.

They are happy to play god by proxy.

They are also happy to strangle programs that prevent deaths and misery among the children they claim they want to save.

Pro-Birth:

[rivegauche]

36. LOVE THAT QUOTE! Wow, thank you! nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

43. Welcome. I found it quite striking too. Here's some more

[Motley13]

58. exactly, they want YOU to have them but They wont take care of them

taking away food stamps for one thing

If men had the babies, it would be a different story.,

[avebury]

33. And just how many right to lifers are also pro death penalty

and pro war. If a person claims to be a right to lifer he/she can't pick and choose when to push their beliefs on others.

[rivegauche]

34. Yeah I just LOVE when men think they have the right

to decide what women can do with their own bodies.



There is nothing that makes me to from 0 to 60 in rage like seeing those arrogant male assholes picketing PP with their fucking fetus photos. Totally makes me want to run them down with my car.

[4lbs]

39. You should have also asked this "right-to-lifer" why his ilk care more about the baby when its in

the womb, and then run away and abandon caring about it once it's born?

[workinclasszero]

41. They are actually pro birth period

The child can starve to death in a ditch with zero health care after birth and the so called pro lifers are good with it.

[sinkingfeeling]

42. I always ask them, "Then why does God abort 66% of all fertilized eggs by natural means?"

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101003205930.htm



Which fertilized eggs will become healthy human fetuses? Researchers predict with 93% accuracy
Date:October 4, 2010 Source:Stanford University Medical Center Summary:Two-thirds of all human embryos fail to develop successfully. Now, in a new study, researchers have shown that they can predict with 93 percent certainty which fertilized eggs will make it to a critical developmental milestone and which will stall and die. The findings are important to the understanding of the fundamentals of human development at the earliest stages, which have largely remained a mystery despite the attention given to human embryonic stem cell research.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

44. One in a three hundred would make all the difference

[Skidmore]

45. Crude, but every time he

has a wet dream untold thousands of babies are aborted. Member of the every sperm is holy club. Men like him tend to be controlling and even abusive.

[allan01]

49. Interisting that the Catholic church also preaches

against sex ed also.

[LynneSin]

51. Want to really piss them off - point out that Abortion rates and unplanned pregnancies

tend to go down during democratic terms in the White House.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

65. ^. Yes. Remember this point and throw it in their faces. n/t

[paulkienitz]

54. The anti-abortion movement is not pro-life, it's pro-pregnancy.

Most of them don't care a bit about killing lots of semiviable embryos during in-vitro fertilization, as long as one of them gets into someone's belly.

[ailsagirl]

55. Stop expecting reason or logic

...because it just ain't there

They are insane

[Spitfire of ATJ]

56. Actually they are the ones playing God....

What else do you call it when they are claiming to be His (yes, a HE) instrument?

They claim to be dispensing Divine Judgement.

That's "playing God".

Besides, the Republicans don't CARE about this issue.

They only use it to turn everyone against each other. That's what the Devil of the Bible does.

[PunksMom]

57. My mother is an 89 year old,

brought up in a strict Catholic home, and still is active in the church. She is voting for Hillary, and is pro-choice. She paved the way in a work force that was dominated by men, and was instrumental in making positive changes for women. She loves her catholic faith, but she also knows to separate church & state, for the good of our country.

[rbrnmw]

59. People dying of diseases and murder by cop don't matter though

It only matters that we preserve life before birth, after that who the fuck cares, as far as those right to lifers are concerned. They could care less about the death penalty and the chances of executing an innocent person.

[Yavin4]

61. And this person is willing to have his/her taxes raised to pay for the care of these children???

Has this person ever visited a foster care home?

[Cakes488]

64. This guy wants no contraception which leads to more babies that some people cannot afford which

would lead to welfare -- the dreaded "handout and free stuff"...and I'm sure he would complain about that.

[pansypoo53219]

69. no contraception is not pro-life. its pro-STUPID.

[calimary]

73. Here's something with which you can respond, and turn such arguments upside down:

From a publication called The Christian Post:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/hillary-clinton-is-the-best-choice-for-voters-against-abortion-170258/#rZk73SPuTeD0RzAp.99

Because actual statistics show, rather factually, that abortions drop when DEMOCRATS are in the White House!

[JRLeft]

77. I'll use it next time.

[calimary]

78. I'd be interested to know if it makes any difference.

FAR too many on that side of the aisle seem to be completely immune to the influence of facts.

[JRLeft]

79. Usually it doesn't with right wingers, usually dig in.