That time Molly Ivins indisputably explained late-term abortion—in 121 seconds

[babylonsister]

This is old but very applicable to today and my 'friends' who hold late-term abortions against Hillary.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/1/23/1342876/-Molly-Ivans-Explains-Late-Term-Abortion-Perfectly?detail=email&link_id=16&can_id=a669183db7994fba72d4ab49be4423cd&source=email-trumps-grievanceburg-address-a-fever-swamp-of-paranoia-rage-to-delegitimize-hillarys-victory&email_referrer=trumps-grievanceburg-address-a-fever-swamp-of-paranoia-rage-to-delegitimize-hillarys-victory___123268&email_subject=nasty-women-for-hillary-its-finally-our-time


That time Molly Ivins indisputably explained late-term abortion—in 121 seconds
By Leslie Salzillo
Friday Jan 23, 2015 · 1:41 PM EDT


For decades, anti-choice Republican lawmakers have tried to chip away at the legal reproductive rights of women, and the battle continues today. When it comes to late-term abortion, the topic is more difficult even for some Liberals/Democrats. The reason for this is because late-term abortion is highly misunderstood. The late Molly Ivins was never known to hold back on her thoughts and beliefs. The journalist, columnist, commentator, and author, raised in Texas, had a wonderful gift of getting her messages across through endearing humor and streetwise reality. Here she is speaking about late-term abortions at The Connecticut Forum's "A Changing Political Landscape" in 1996. Ivins explains late-term abortions in a way I've never heard before, and in a way I will never forget. Other panelists on this particular forum included James Carville, Oliver North, Ralph Reed (not seen in this video) and moderator Gwen Ifill. Here is text from the video:

“There's something very wrong in our discussion of this. If there's anything that late-term abortion is, it is not an easy call. And I just want to say, that perhaps, I almost get the impression that somebody thinks women don't have no moral sense at all. No woman who is seven months pregnant, ever waddles past an abortion clinic and says, 'Darn, I knew there was something I've been meaning to get around to.' This is ridiculous. You have those late-term abortions, because either the mother is going to die, the child is going to die, or both are going to die. These procedures are incredibly rare. I only know of two in the state of Texas since Roe v. Wade was passed. They were both what they call cases of babies with no brain. The brain, the child's brain stem had developed, but then something went horribly wrong and these children literally had no brains. Now, is that an easy call? Is that simple to you? I am really, I'm… let me try and calm down - it's not going to do any good for me to get excited. If the choice… These are women who want their babies, they want the babies, terribly. What would you do, and I'm talking to the women in the audience. If a doctor said to you, 'Either your baby has to die, or you will die, or your health will be wrecked for the rest of your life, and you'll never be able to have another child.' I don't know what you'd do. I think you'd want a second opinion. But if I were you, I sure as hell wouldn't ask Bob Dole, because I don't think that's an easy call.”

Here is the video (at link) . You can see full Forums at www.theforumchannel.tv.

The battle for reproductive freedom is an ongoing struggle that will most likely continue past our lifetimes. We continue this fight for our daughters, and granddaughters, because our mothers, grandmothers, and male/female pro-choice supporters did the same for us. There are many ways we can support reproductive rights. Here are 10 large/small pro-choice organizations/Facebook pages you can visit/join now. They offer ways to help and be helped.

Planned Parenthood NARAL/Pro-Choice America NOW NAF/National Abortion Federation UniteWomen.org Abortion.com Fight Laws Against Women Pro-Choice Liberals Abigail Adams Brigade One Millon Vaginas _______________ The Guttmacher Institute is an excellent source of current reproductive rights legislation.

Thank you, Molly Ivins. You are greatly missed.

[AmericanActivist]

1. Molly Ivin was great in many ways. nm

[B2G]

4. This is a confusing subject for me, and here's why

I honestly don't understand how ending a viable pregnancy with a healthy child because the mother's life is at risk if the pregnancy continues is legitimate reason to do a late term abortion.

The pregnancy can be brought to an end via induction or C-section. Why abort in this case?

If the baby has a condition incompatible with life, I totally get that.

[babylonsister]

5. I think if the baby is healthy

but puts mom's health at risk, a c-section would be done to save both mother and child. I don't know any one who would choose to abort a healthy baby if that baby could be saved.

[B2G]

6. But that's not what she said.

She specifically stated that the mother might die.

[babylonsister]

7. She also

said the baby was developing without a brain; I don't know which part you're disagreeing with.

[B2G]

8. I thought I made that pretty clear.

"You have those late-term abortions, because either the mother is going to die, the child is going to die, or both are going to die."


If the baby has a condition incompatible with life, I get it.

What I don't get is the argument that late term abortion is acceptable if the MOTHER'S life is at risk (for the reason I stated above), but the baby is fine.

It's not an 'or' argument.

[babylonsister]

10. No, you didn't.

And I didn't get that as part of Ivin's argument. I maintain if the mom's life is at risk but the baby is fine, a c-section would be the result.

[B2G]

12. You bolded that part of her statement in you OP.

But it's good to hear that we agree that if the baby is fine, late term abortion isn't acceptable.

[MoonchildCA]

21. Viable babies are not aborted.

This is a republican argument, and it's just not what late term abortion is about. Nobody gives birth to a living, viable child--as Trump said, uncontested, in the debate--and then kills it. The situations where the mother's life is in danger, most likely occur before the child is viable. Late term usually means after 20 weeks, but babies born that early cannot survive. I'm sure, in cases where the mother can carry long enough for the fetus to be viable, she would choose to do that. Again though, it's her choice--it's a risk, but these are pregnancies that were expected to be full term.
No one decides in their 8th or 9th month of pregnancy, "Eh, I changed my mind, I'm going down to the corner Planned Parenthood and having this thing ripped out and killed." Sorry, to be so blunt, but that's how the other side makes it's argument, and it's a lie.

[B2G]

9. Maybe I'll ask this in GD. nt

[babylonsister]

11. Please do. nt

[Hortensis]

26. Roe v. Wade does not provide for abortions in that case.

[Mariana]

15. The possiblilty that comes to my mind

is that in a situation like that, the mother's health might be too fragile for her to safely go through labor via induction or a C-section surgery. I feel comfortable leaving it to the women and their doctors to decide what is the best course of action.

It would be interesting to know exactly how many abortions take place to end pregnancies in which the fetus is viable and healthy. Do you know?

[B2G]

17. Not many

Fewer than 1%.

[shrike]

28. The movie "After Tiller" had two

"After Tiller" focused on the late-term abortion doctors who carried after Tiller's murder. One young woman had an abortion at 20 weeks; she'd been raped. Perfectly understandable. Then a pregnancy was terminated because the patient was 16. She was 16 weeks along and the doctors agreed it was ultimately better to terminate the pregnancy and let her put her life back together.

The one case all the doctors refused to take on was one where the woman was 36 weeks along. She had all these reasons why she hadn't sought an abortion earlier. (Nothing was wrong with the pregnancy or her.) She was from France; apparently the abortion laws were restrictive enough that she couldn't seek an abortion there. Her last hope was the United States. New Mexico has no restrictions but the doctor ultimately turned her down. Healthy pregnancy too far along. Woman said she couldn't afford to raise the child. Clinic advised her to consider adoption; she said she couldn't do that, either. Abortion was her only hope. I hope she made peace with being a mother, because a mother was what she was going to be.

Most of the women in the movie wept through the appointment. Something one of them said stuck with me. She said the procedure was the last thing she could do for her son, who wouldn't have survived birth. A quick and merciful death.

[Emilybemily]

22. How about

It's none of your damn business??? These procedures are between a woman and her doctor. They will decide. No one asked for your opinion.

[progressoid]

30. +1

Welcome to DU Emilybemily!

[lillypaddle]

23. Unless you are in this particular situation

facing this kind of decision, YOU don't have to understand, it's not any of your business. It is the business of the pregnant woman, her doctors, and if she chooses, her family members.

I'm tired of having this conversation with people who feel like someone else's decision needs to be justified to them so they can feel "right" about it.

I'd say more, but I am really fucking angry right now.

[progressoid]

29. +1

[MisterFred]

35. Actually, you're not far off.

Induction or C-section is actually a common way to go about these abortions. The fetus then dies (or is destroyed because its only other option is to watch it suffer for hours and then die).

If the fetus could survive a C-section, it wouldn't be an abortion. It'd be an early birth for medical reasons. Roe vs. Wade covers this. Abortion isn't allowed under Roe vs. Wade if the fetus can survive on its own.

In other words, the part you totally get is what ALWAYS happens with late-term abortions. Legal ones, anyway.

Edit: The mother's life being at risk is why the abortion is done when it is done - and not later/not at all. Example: a fetus that could have survived a C-section with another few weeks/month of development never gets there because otherwise the mother would probably die - and probably the fetus since it didn't get those few weeks/month either way.

[Johnny2X2X]

13. No brains

No wonder Republicans want these kids born with. I brains, they'd surely be future GOP voters.

[dem in texas]

14. Two cases in my family

My late sister- in- law (who was also my childhood friend) had two children, then started having health problems. The doctor told her not to have anymore children, but she went off the pill without telling my brother and got pregnant.

She had problems in the pregnancy from day one, but carried the baby until the doctor told her it was going to kill her. She was faced with carrying the child to full term and possibly dying and leaving two little boys under age 5 without a mother or getting a "a partial-birth-abortion". She took the abortion route. It was a girl and years later she told me that not a day went by that she didn't think about that baby. Her health continued to decline and she passed away in her mid 40's while waiting for a kidney transplant.

My beautiful daughter had two problem pregnancies that required full bed rest before each her daughters were born. She got pregnant again and was pretty far along when she began to bleed. The doctor could not stop the bleeding and told her she needed to have the baby aborted or she was going to bleed to death. She had the abortion after she'd lost over half the blood in her body. It took her over a year to recover. If she'd died, the baby would have died with her and my two little granddaughters would have been left without a mother.

I get so mad when I hear the "righties" talk about how horrible women are to have partial birth abortion (later term is a better phrase to use). These types of abortions are terrible things for the mother and her family and the politicians and Christian conservatives need to stay the hell out of the abortion business. That should be a personal and family matter.

[DemonGoddess]

19. ^^^This!!!

Thank you for sharing this. It is absolutely heart rending for anyone to have to make this decision, regardless of WHEN in the pregnancy. Late terms decisions must absolutely stay with the woman and her doctor.

[treestar]

18. How the right wing misrepresents this issue

they ought to be ashamed of their callous use of these cases.

[AgadorSparticus]

20. I can't even imagine what she would have done with cheeto.

You are sorely missed, Molly Ivens!

[TNNurse]

25. Watch the video

do not just read the text. Please pay attention to who is sitting on either side of her.

[Lucinda]

27. I loaded the video, then opened it at youtube, and there is a wonderful playlist

of Molly Ivins videos there.

And North interrupting her made me mad. lol

[progressoid]

32. Yeah, fuck North and Reed.

[progressoid]

31. God, she was wonderful.

[CajunBlazer]

33. Thanks much for introducing me to Molly Ivins

After listening to her give that explanation of late term abortion, I continued to watch and listen to other film clips featuring Molly talking about numerous other subjects. She is among the funniest, most insightful people I have every heard speak. I am going to look up some of her columns next. I'll bet that they are a hoot.

[babylonsister]

34. You are most welcome!

Yes, smart, progressive, informed, and funny. She is greatly missed.

[CaptainTruth]

36. I've been thinking about Molly lately, & what choice words she would have for Donald Trump.

I miss her wit.