Anyone still think electing a woman president would be more accepted than a black male?

[boston bean]

I am not meaning this to be a contest but fuck the treatment of hillary and the vetting of her is unparalleled in the history of electing only men for this office.

Now a sicko man who tweets his junk is causing this bullshit!!l

This is a fucking misogynist disgrace. We have seen her emails. Its not enough. We gotta rummage through the underwear drawer too.

[MADem]

1. It's not even HER underwear drawer, either!!!

This is an utter disgrace and I hope it gets the boomerang, as these things often do.

[apcalc]

52. You bet it's disgraceful. Comey ought to be embarrassed.

[Hortensis]

122. He ought to be retired. He has an agenda,

and we all know it.

As for Hillary, black men got the vote 50 years before women did and a black man was elected president before a woman, even chosen over a female candidate. (America and the cause of equality are fortunate that this particular man decided to help the next president be that woman by making her his SoS.)

[Madam45for2923]

2. It's like the whole country is giving birth or something!

Yeah this hasn't been easy! But great things come to those who go for it and persevere!!

[grossproffit]

3. Many are all for women's rights until a woman is going to surpass them.

[elleng]

4. It's 'Hillary,' imo; not just any woman.

Anti-Hillary and Bill has had a long life.

[boston bean]

7. That is bullshit elleng. Other dem women experience this as well. Also some repub women.

[grossproffit]

28. Thank you. Any women out in the corporate world wil tell you that there are different rules 4 women.

If they say otherwise, they're lying or have never been in the corporate world.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

87. +1 nt

[AgadorSparticus]

124. +1,000

[alarimer]

190. The classic double bind

It's everywhere.

[Hortensis]

112. Of being a black woman and being a black man,

being a woman was the bigger handicap according to three successful black female politicians I heard discuss this separately back in the 1980s and 1990s. Shirley Chisholm's the only name coming to mind now, but almost everyone would recognize the others.

OF COURSE, this is almost entirely about Hillary being a woman and being a Democrat. And "woman" is listed first because no male Democrat has ever been the target of the massively vicious hostility and hatemongering that she is.

The antagonism toward Hillary can be traced all the way back to when she was a northern woman bringing her Wellesley ways to the Arkansas state house. Many of the same people paid to go after her then have made a very prosperous career of it and, joined by many others of course, are still at it, working mostly out of very expensive offices in DC.

Btw, we know that she is virtually squeaky clean because of these people. 30 years of attack-investigations have proven it over and over. Think about it, Elleng, if it's not too late.

[GopherGal]

143. Try Saying "Pelosi" to RWNJs

Hillary gets some Clinton Derangement Syndrome added on top of it, no doubt, but the reaction to Pelosi was pretty telling.

[MH1]

13. Yes, but if it were any other woman, they'd turn HER into Hillary

as in, crank up the smear machine to Mach 10, fabricate whatever bullshit they needed to try to bring this woman down.

No, they wouldn't have a 30 year head start like they do with Hillary. But the technology is SO much better now ... it wouldn't take them long to catch up.

[grossproffit]

32. Like calling Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas. Had she been our nominee, the hate would have been just as

bad.

[duffyduff]

46. She wouldn't have been elected, either. n/t

[Grey Lemercier]

108. Warren would have crushed that fucker Trump as well

[MH1]

115. Yes, it would, and it all would have been bullshit too.

Just like it is (at least 99% anyway) with Hillary.

[grossproffit]

26. That's bullshit.

[spooky3]

41. yes, that's why we have had so many female Presidents previously.

[sheshe2]

78. Sigh

[still_one]

79. Yeah, when a strong powerful WOMAN, in 1993 presented a healthcare plan, that is

when it all started. How dare a "WOMAN", push healthcare reform to a chamber dominated by men, whose view of the ideal wife is located in Stepford, Connecticut

Perhaps you are unaware that republicans have had issues with strong powerful women for sometime.

Remember Dr. Todd Akin educated all of us on what a legitimate pregnancy was.

If you are not aware of the republican war against women, especially strong women, I would like to sell you some swamp land in Arizonia

[sheshe2]

81. Ouch!

[pnwmom]

89. Do you think there are only a handful of women Governors

and 20 Senators because women lack the skill set? Or the ambition?

And why are there so few top female CEO's?

Get real. Haven't you learned anything from the current witch hunt? Misogyny and discrimination against women are both deep and widespread.

[elleng]

91. Epic battles between the Clintons and their tormentors have shaped American politics for 25+ years.

https://www.facebook.com/thelastword/videos/vb.114945745226947/1106764349378410/?type=2&theater&notif_t=live_video&notif_id=1477624374055274

[pnwmom]

92. That's because she has been a strong woman in politics for 25+ years

and they've been trying to take her down the whole time.

More than a hundred million in investigations and they haven't succeeded. Few people could withstand that kind of scrutiny much less overcome it.

[Hortensis]

118. EXACTLY, and EXACTLY.

A giant load she's dragged behind on her long climb to the glass ceiling, but Indomitable H has overcome it.

[bettyellen]

174. I see people here arguing to squelch this discussion because they were guilty of buying the RW spin

And they "still haven' t figured out" why they so easily bought the spin. Haven't figured out how sexist it was to slam her ambition and tell us "where her place" was.
They'd like us to deny the very sexism we saw here ourselves, so they can pat themselves on the back. Nope.

[BlueMTexpat]

111. VERY disappointing

comment from you, elleng! For shame!

Any woman who had anywhere near the same qualifications for being President of the US would have been treated in the same way. Even Carly Fiorina, who was nowhere near qualified, had to undergo misogyny during her brief run as a GOPer candidate, most especially from the GrOPer-in-Chief. And if Trump's DIL's comments about his pressuring Comey to do this are true, then Trump is also behind this one.

Women candidates for US Senator, including our beloved and now retiring Senator Barbara Mikulski, have faced their share of this crap.

True, for Hillary, it is CRAP++++ and it is exactly this kind of treatment that we should be uniformly against. No excuses!

[JustAnotherGen]

125. Plus 1000

[bettyellen]

113. Sure and Bernie Sanders would have done so well if he were a woman who

Never had a real career or even voted once until late in life, had a baby out of wedlock and refused to show her taxes. Yeah, women with that kinda CV are given great opportunities all the time. She could have cheated on all her three husbands and have no one call her on it. Yep.

[mcar]

140. You may want to read up on

"The Clinton Rules." Created by the right wing and embraced by the media. Much of it based on hatred of that "uppity woman" who dared to have a career and kept her family name.

[unitedwethrive]

5. I have always found that people react far more negatively to a strong, outspoken woman than they do

a similarly strong black man. It seems to be expected behavior in a man, but something to be looked down on in a woman.

[democrattotheend]

6. Bullshit. Obama was easier to elect because he was better at avoiding the appearance of corruption

I am not saying Hillary is corrupt but she has not done a good enough job of avoiding the appearance of corruption. Obama has been president for almost 8 years and they've been unable to manufacture a scandal to take him down because he hasn't given them the opportunity. It has nothing to do with gender. A lot of the coverage of Hillary has been sexist, but I don't see anything inherently sexist about this.

[boston bean]

8. U got proof of Hillarys corrpution. Please do provide..

[JRLeft]

11. He/she said they do not believe she is corrupt.

[boston bean]

14. Oh there is a feeling she is. Wtf. Come on this is part of the problem i describe.

[JRLeft]

19. A lot stuff has come out that she wouldn't release and it wasn't that

bad. The appearance of hiding stuff feeds into the narrative.

[democrattotheend]

24. Exactly

That was exactly the point I was trying to make.

Take a look at her Wall Street speeches. There was nothing that terrible in them, but I was panicked at first when they came out because I figured she must have had a good reason not to release them in the primaries. She let people think she was hiding something really damaging when she wasn't. And it's far from the only time she has done it. She is her own worst enemy sometimes.

[JRLeft]

31. Her political judgment is terrible at times. If she released her transcripts

in January she would have has a bad week and would have survived.

[cynatnite]

50. Repukes have been at her and Bill for 30 years...

She is understandably mistrustful of the media and the repukes who both have fueled these manufactured scandals.

She's been demonized for a long time and it will dog her no matter what.

[democrattotheend]

21. I don't believe she is corrupt

But I believe she has in many instances allowed herself to be painted that way by not putting up enough walls between her personal, political and governmental activities, and by being overly secretive, making things look a lot worse than they are.

President Obama has avoided scandal mostly because he went above and beyond the bare minimum ethics requirements and has for the most part refused to allow people to serve in his administration who had even the appearance of a conflict of interest. There's a reason none of the GOP attempts to manufacture scandals have gained traction. He's popular and free of scandal right now because he earned it.

[boston bean]

59. You just believe she appears corrupt.

[Skittles]

152. what a pantload

[uponit7771]

166. She shouldn't have to accept a double standard to appease to sexist assholes

[spooky3]

178. You mean, like Comey?

[m-lekktor]

16. OFFS Democrattothend said "appearance of corruption" not that she was corrupt.

reading comprehension skills, brush up on them please!

[boston bean]

22. An appearance of. That makes it better where is the fucking proof. People just spout this crap.

Like there is some truth to it.

If there is nothing to believe about it why excuse that lame ass opinion and give it any creedence?

[Skittles]

154. can you BELIEVE this garbage?

they're actually telling us how they bought into the propaganda, with ZERO realization

it is PATHETIC

[duffyduff]

53. "Acting guilty." That is Gerthspeak.

I know EXACTLY what this poster was implying.

[Skittles]

153. bull

they're MADE UP "SCANDALS"

the "appearance of corruptions" came after tens of millions of dollars spent on ENDLESS WITCH HUNTS

YOU HAVE BOUGHT THE REPUKE BULLSHIT

[uponit7771]

167. No...seeing the others "appearance" is always going to be suspect

[boston bean]

12. What a bag of bull. Appearance of. Lmfao.

[JRLeft]

15. Wrong she should have done what some of her staff wanted to do

and have a transparency day. It wouldn't have hurt her it would have helped and helped her favorables.

[boston bean]

17. I think u bought into a bg of misogynist bull.

[JRLeft]

25. I think you're too caught up in this that every response you do not like

comes off as an attack, conspiracy, or hatred of HRC.

[boston bean]

27. I think your wrong about that.

[boston bean]

42. You are wrong again.

[sheshe2]

63. A woman labled as furious. Is PMS next?

Lol!

[spooky3]

179. The evidence is SO much against your position

Even if it didn't play right into the double standard and blame the victim problem.

She called for FBI to reveal all the emails almost immediately. Pretty damn transparent. Notice how that completely stopped this story in its tracks?

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

18. Obama had less political history to rummage through. n/t

[democrattotheend]

30. He also put a greater emphasis on clean government

He banned lobbyists from giving to his campaigns and from serving in his administration. He took steps to cut down on the revolving door between the private sector and government. He hasn't gone as far as I'd like or been perfect with it, but he's taken enough care to keep his administration honest that he hasn't been constantly bogged down by scandal.

[JRLeft]

35. Hopefully she'll learn from this and be more transparent as president.

[duffyduff]

48. The last thing she needs is unsolicited advice.

Bet you wouldn't do this of a male nominee.

[Skittles]

158. of course not

[democrattotheend]

51. I agree. I hope she keeps many of his policies in place

And expands upon them.

[sheshe2]

70. I love Obama with all my heart....

Yet you are saying she has to learn from a man? Really?

She actually has a functioning brain, she got this.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

45. Yes, he has done a very good with that while he was president.

He has left little ammo for the Republicans. They still concocted crazy stories about him (birther crap, etc).

[duffyduff]

47. Are you Jeff Gerth?

His whole spiel of the Whitewater hoax was that the Clintons "acted guilty." This despite the truth that both of them are perhaps the least corrupt politicians in modern political history.

[duffyduff]

49. Oh, baloney.

It is far more fashionable to go after a woman than it is to go after an African American because sexism is still okay while racism is not.

Don't hand me the crap Obama is less corrupt than the Clintons. The Clintons are extremely clean.

[democrattotheend]

57. Seriously? You want to refight the 2008 primaries?

Didn't we just finish fighting the 2016 primaries?

We have an election to win. Why the OP chose to stir the pot by rehashing a 2008 argument about whether it was harder for a black man or a white woman is beyond me.

[metroins]

56. I agree with you

And I supported both Obama and Hillary in their respective years.

Honestly, who cares?

We just need to elect the best person for the job.

[George II]

58. How can one avoid the appearance of corruption if her enemies are going to go after her....

....no matter what she does or how "clean" (which to me she's virtually spotless) she is?

What they're saying is "corrupt" many of them have done themselves. Period.

HILLARY Clinton has never had any sexual scandals of her own. Her only "scandal" in that regard was sticking with her husband and forgiving him.

Freaking Melania Trump has been put on a pedestal for forgiving Trump, and Pence has jumped on that "forgiveness" bandwagon. But Hillary? They criticize her for forgiving Bill.

[Squinch]

67. How did Hillary give them the opportunity to manufacture scandals? Either she did things

wrong or she didn't. They chose to manufacture those scandals. In fact, take Benghazi. There is absolutely nothing there. And yet she is smeared and the sitting president is not. I don't think either should have been, of course, but don't you think it's odd that she took all the heat and was the only one named in their manufactured scandal?

[sheshe2]

72. I see a lot of concern. nt

[MadBadger]

127. Having the damn private server/email in the first place, which she admits was a mistake

[Squinch]

165. And other secretaries of state before her have done the same without any "scandal". Try another.

[democrattotheend]

139. I'll give you a perfect example

Bill Clinton meeting with Loretta Lynch on the tarmac before the FBI announced its findings is a perfect example of what I am talking about. I don't for one minute believe that he tried to influence the investigation. If he were trying to do so he'd have been a lot more discreet. But because the optics of it looked bad, Lynch had to cede more control to Comey and thus was unable or unwilling to stop Comey from sending that letter yesterday.

And Republicans did try to use Benghazi against Obama in 2012. But he was re-elected 2 months later, and after that it made more sense for the Republicans to pin it on Hillary because Obama couldn't run again but Hillary probably would. Nothing sexist about that. There has been plenty of sexism against Hillary in this campaign but people who yell sexism every time someone lobs an illegitimate accusation at her are cheapening the meaning of the word.

[Squinch]

163. Your "perfect example" is something someone else did, not Hillary. Common mistake among

those who don't see Hillary as having agency of her own, but do try to avoid making Bill's mistakes hers.

And if you are going to tell me that Bill's mistakes ARE Hillary's because reasons, please back that up by showing me where any other candidate or President was penalized for his wife's mistakes. For example (because I suspect there will be a "But Bill and Hillary are the same" reasoning) see if you can find an instance where Bill was ever held responsible for anything Hillary did.

And do link to anywhere where the Republicans gave half the effort of pinning Benghazi on Obama as they did on Hillary.

[democrattotheend]

200. I said "the Clintons" in my original post

And yes, I agree that Bill's mistakes should not be imputed to Hillary.

[grossproffit]

77. I've had women tell me that a woman shouldn't be president. Vice president, but not president.

[niyad]

135. "the appearance of corruption" being, of course, the unending drumbeat from the reichwing hate/spin

machine, yes? we have been seeing this for nearly 30 years, when it comes to the clintons, and it just gets worse and worse.

[pnwmom]

182. That ignores the long history of misogyny and sexism that affected Hillary.

I love Obama and voted for him but I was not clueless about the unfair attacks that had been hounding Hillary for her entire political life.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512560447

[democrattotheend]

201. I don't disagree that Hillary has been unfairly attacked for decades

But President Obama has been viciously and racistly attacked for his entire presidency and yet attempts to paint him as corrupt have failed. So I think it's fair to say he's done something right that Hillary hasn't. In fairness, a lot of the perception of corruptness dogging Hillary dates back to scandals during her husband's administration, which is itself sexist. But I believe they'd be calling her crooked and hitting her relentlessly over the e-mail nonsense if she were a male.

[pnwmom]

204. They wouldn't have hated her for keeping her own name if she were male,

(which happened in Arkansas, where the hate began) or for being uninterested in baking cookies in the White House. She came to her job as First Lady as a strong feminist and she's been hated by the misogynists and haters ever since.

Obama came to office as a peacemaker, not as a disrupter -- which she did with her feminism.

[Rocknrule]

10. I don't think the R's treatment of Obama and Hillary has that much to do with sex/color

I think that more than anything, it has to do with the fact that they have Ds behind their names

[Squinch]

69. I could not disagree more. There have been Ds for two hundred years. This is unprecedented.

[sheshe2]

73. Wrong.

Black....and a Woman. Fact.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

20. Black males got the right to vote before females.

I'm not surprised.

[Skittles]

155. yup: women are OVER HALF THE POPULATION

and there has never been a female president - that speaks VOLUMES

sexism is FAR more pervasive than racism

a lot of people who find racism wrong think nothing of treating women like crap

[still_one]

23. I think they are both incredably difficult for a large segment of the racist, sexist

populous that make up the country

[bravenak]

29. I no longer believe that at all

I did at
one time though

[grossproffit]

37. Sexism is still socially acceptable. We saw enough of it here during the primaries.

I'll never forget it either.

[bravenak]

40. It was an eye opener for sure

I could not believe the way peopke were trying so hard to make it seem like we were crazy for not wanting to be called vaginas

[bettyellen]

172. People who claimed during the primaries HRC didn't "know her place" was the senate....

Are in this thread arguing it never happened. Yeah- the whole vagina thing sadly started with other Dems. Now they are too embarrassed to own it. I'm not allowing history to be rewritten here. They were disgusting.

[bravenak]

184. They were disgusting and refused to reflect

Glad so many of them left but I remember who did it. It was fucking brutal

[JRLeft]

39. If she was a Republican, this wouldn't be happening.

[bravenak]

54. They would never hav actually NOMINATED a HER

[sheshe2]

75. Lol!

Correct. They hate Women!

They just use them as tools for fools!

[Cha]

33. They're sure as Hell trying to make sure Hillary doesn't get in Office

Jon Favreau
✔ ‎@jonfavs
After a DEFCON 1 freakout, we now know the emails in question were:
1) Not from Hillary
2) Not from her sever
3) Not from her investigation

Dan Diamond
✔ ‎@ddiamond
Some irony for Clinton: Anthony Weiner a *great* example of why men who can't control themselves on Twitter shouldn't be allowed near power.
9:40 AM - 28 Oct 2016 · Arlington, VA, United States
506 506 Retweets 857 857 likes


#FlipItDem ‎@FlipItDem
Tomorrows AP Headline...
10:37 AM - 28 Oct 2016
31 31 Retweets 32 32 likes

https://theobamadiary.com/2016/10/28/chat-away-882/

[sheshe2]

144. Roflmao!

[deathrind]

38. It has very little to do...

...with that. Some of what we are seeing is because of the gender aspect. But a majority of it is because it is Hillary. People still do not seem to realize the level of hatred the right has for the Clintons. It is a hatred that has been brewing for decades by rush / Hannity / savage / coulter etc. If you think the obstruction has been bad during Obamas time just wait. What we have seen is just a rehearsal for what is to come unless we give Hillary the down ballot votes needed to tip the balance of control. Republicans have already said what is going to happen during a Hillary presidency.

[duffyduff]

44. Nope. The hatred toward HRC stems from the fact she is a strong woman.

Her last name has nothing to do with it.

She was vilified from the minute she arrived in D.C. in 1993 when she was clearly not the supportive, invisible wife that was expected of First Ladies. The Republicans hated her because of the very real possibility SHE could be president.

So yes, it IS sexism.

[deathrind]

82. Really...

Than it is a very selective form of sexism...

Because there is not nearly the same intensity or vitriol from the right towards any of the numerous other strong independent women who have been in DC for decades now.

[duffyduff]

83. You really don't understand this at all.

How old are you? You seem to have NO memory whatsoever of the Clintons' political careers.

The GOP was scared apeshit over her beginning when she arrived in D.C. In fact, Bill Clinton actually had wanted her in his cabinet, as I remember, but of course he couldn't do it because of nepotism regulations that were put in after RFK.

She didn't know her place when she was First Lady because she was far more intelligent than just about every single dude in D.C., including her own husband. The GOP KNEW she had the potential of being president herself.

But keep peddling the LIES the GOP has been spewing for 25 years.

Read the Conason and Lyons book about the Clintons. I will not engage with you further because you are ignorant of the Clinton political smear history.

[deathrind]

128. You are right.

It is purely sexism and nothing more...how could I be so ignorant...

Has nothing to do with the two decades plus that the republicans/the right have gone after both Clinton's from whitewater /foster/flowers/jones/impeachment/ Lewinsky /pardons/ so called travel gate, filegate more recently Benghazi/ emails and never been able to make anything stick because there was nothing there to begin with. Certainly that has not turned into a vendetta or hatred for Clinton...it is purely because she is a woman.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek.com/why-do-republicans-hate-hillary-clinton-474155%3Famp%3D1

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/07/the_people_who_hate_hillary_clinton_the_most.html

https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57969600e4b0d3568f84486d/amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/21/hatred-for-hillary-clinton-republican-party-unifier

[apcalc]

162. She's a woman who represented a threat, she didn't know her place, anew

Kind of woman who wanted a career, was smart, just not going to sit home and bake cookies....scares the shit out of them.

[niyad]

138. oh, my. has your head been in the sand for the last 30 years?

[Squinch]

71. And all of the hatred of Hillary, going back to her non cookie baking status as first lady, has

ALWAYS been based on the fact that she is a woman, and she is ambitious.

Hillary hatred is sexism. Just as Obama hatred is racism. Neither has ever done anything to earn the hatred.

[sheshe2]

76. + 1000

Thank you Squinch!

Nailed it,

[Silver Gaia]

116. +1001

Absolutely. I remember how all of this happened, too.

[smirkymonkey]

195. This!

[duffyduff]

43. No. Misogyny is far more prevalent.

HRC's election is earth-shaking in a way that Obama's was most certainly not. After all, Obama is male.

[IronLionZion]

60. Why compare the two?

Obama and lots of liberal men are supporting Hillary.

Hillary and lots of women supported Obama.

Why make it a racism vs. sexism issue? Do we need to find a minority woman next to test this theory? Maybe Tammy Duckworth so we can include the differently abled? Or do we need someone from the LGBT community?

There's more than enough hate in this world. At the risk of saying "all hate matters".

Let the republicans fight amongst themselves because of that orange troll and his lunatic supporters. We should be unified to win this election.

[Squinch]

74. And yet, you just said, "All hate matters." Why would having this discussion disunify us? Is it a

problem if women notice that they tend to be treated like shit?

[IronLionZion]

84. Because it's incomparable, and not productive to try comparing the two

Nobody's going to sexually assault me, and cops are not going to shoot you dead.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

90. But the problem is that Violence Against Women is done in secret--Black men are executed publicly

Where the murders can be filmed. That is why the violence against Black men is in the public eye.

Oddly, there are some videos of LE violence against women (I've seen a couple--One victim was Latina I think, the other was Black.). Those have not made it to The Media.

http://thefifthcolumnnews.com/2015/12/police-violence-against-women/

Why doesn’t police violence against women make headlines?
by Charles Rae • December 9, 2015

If we didn’t have videos of police executions, more people than just the Fox News watchers would eat up the stories that the victims of murder were actually threats. So when police brutalize and sexually attack women in private, what is everyone supposed to do about it? This officer {Daniel Holtzclaw} in particular targeted women who are especially vulnerable for a number of reasons, and that’s what abusers and rapists do: target vulnerable members of our society. Women. Women in poverty. Women of color. Women they can easily manipulate, and have power over. It escapes headlines, like most rape and domestic abuse news does, because it’s more insidious than public execution.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2016/1/19/sexual-violence-the-brutality-that-police-chiefs-ignore.html

U.S.
Officers who rape: The police brutality chiefs ignore
Scores of women are sexually assaulted by on-duty officers each year. Most departments are doing little to stop it
January 19, 2016 5:30AM ET
by Steven Yoder @syodertweets

[niyad]

129. the violence against women is, as you said, almost invisible. that is why so many can

ignore it, or pretend that it does not exist.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

130. Yes. What's dangerous is the automatic assumption against women;

That women lie to harm men.

The percentage of proven false accusations is small....far smaller than the percentage of men who assault/molest/rape/murder and then lie.

[niyad]

131. after watching der drumpfenfuhrer, I am coming to the conclusion that the "all women lie"

meme is projection on the part of males. I will, henceforth, be asking every time I hear that crap, "so, what's in YOUR closet?"

[ancianita]

61. Nope. Less.

[Mc Mike]

62. I think they're out to get everyone, b b.

They'll do their level best to crush Women, Blacks more than they would a christian white guy Dem, but they'd attack any Dem as much as they possibly can.

[Blaukraut]

64. I always thought acceptance, or lack thereof, would be about the same for either

They both have the same adversary: white males.

[Grey Lemercier]

109. this^^^^^^

Sexism and racism are the RW white male tools of the trade. It is situational which hammer they pull out of their toolkit of hate to use.

[rury]

65. Obama did not have all the baggage

that Hillary has. He's squeaky clean. If he had even a whiff of a scandal about him he would not have been elected because being black always means we have to be twice as good for half the credit. And the way Hillary's staff responds to these situations often gives the appearance of hiding something.
Hillary was careless with her emails. That, not her gender, brought on this investigation.
But I'm still hopeful and confident that she'll win.

[duffyduff]

80. HRC has no baggage.

I swear some of you need to read Gene Lyons' Fools for Scandal, and Lyons and Conason's The Hunting of the President.

The ignorance of people on this board of the largely Scaife-financed Clinton "scandals" is appalling.

[Skittles]

151. repuke propaganda worked on a lot of so-called progressives

it is indeed sickening

[mcar]

142. Credible links to baggage?

[Squinch]

169. How about, instead of foolishly falling for the right wing "baggage" propaganda, we call it what it

is: a vicious 30 year smear campaign which never uncovered any wrongdoing.

So here, I'll rewrite for you using the correct descriptions:

"Obama was not subject to a vicious 30 year smear campaign which never uncovered any wrongdoing like Hillary has. Like Hillary, he's squeaky clean. Neither ever engaged in behavior that should have resulted in scandals. Perhaps if Obama had been in the public eye for longer, they would have gone after him just as viciously as they go after Hillary, but it is likely that if he had been subjected to the same vicious 30 year baseless smear campaign as Hillary, he would not have been able to get elected. If that had happened, we would have missed having a truly great president. Also, because Hillary's staff knows that the Republicans are ALWAYS gunning for her, they do try to avoid giving air to these baseless smears and do tend to keep things close to their vests.

Hillary was careless with her emails, just as other secretaries of state before her routinely were, but no scandal ever attached to any of them because of it. Because she is an ambitious woman, though, her actions brought on this investigation.

But she is such an unbelievably strong candidate that she will still win this election, regardless of what the ratfuckers do to her.

[postatomic]

66. I knew it would be bad, but not this bad

Hillary is providing inspiration to women of all ages. Women who understand what she is going through. The way she has been treated really saddens me. These misogynist assholes will take a grain of sand with Hillary and turn it into a boulder.

[vdogg]

68. Not anymore, but this is an interesting bookend to history.

I believe that black males got the right to vote b4 women too if I'm not mistaken.

[niyad]

134. you are quite correct.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

85. Personally, I think and have thought for a long time

that the reaction to a white woman running for president would be worse than the reaction to a black man.

I can't really explain why I think that...maybe the discussion here will help clarify my thoughts.

[Hekate]

86. I did not think it could possibly get uglier than what the GOP threw at Obama, but they have...

....surpassed themselves. This is the most vile campaign I have ever witnessed in my life, and they are promising that Hillary's prsidency will be more of the same, plus immediate impeachment.

They are despicable.

[Skittles]

98. ?

do you not remember how Hillary was trashed way before we even ever HEARD of Obama?

[Hekate]

100. Hell yes I remember, right back to when she and Bill came to DC. It's why I defend her now.

The sheer horror in 2015-2016 is the addition of Donald Trump to the equation. He and his Troglodyte Brigade have made what should have been a normal civic exercise into something unspeakably vile.

The Congressional GOP is promising that they have two years worth of kangaroo court investigations all lined up. Conversely, they promise they might just cut to the chase and get on with impeachment immediately. Also, Cruz now says the SCOTUS doesn't really need 9 Justices, because after all historically there have been even fewer than the 8 it now has.

I wish I could do some ass-kicking myself, Skittles. Or cry. My blood pressure is up and my stomach lining doesn't bear talking about.

[Silver Gaia]

120. +1000

I remember it all, too. "Unspeakably vile" is a good description of what we are seeing.

[Jarqui]

88. No

Their race or sex should have nothing to do with it.

Trump is a sicko no matter what is between his legs or his pigmentation.

Hillary has vastly more experience regardless of what is between her legs or her pigmentation.

I think Obama is better than both of them but that has nothing to do with what is between his legs or his pigmentation.

[senseandsensibility]

93. A significant number of white women are sexist

Not the majority, but a significant enough number to affect election results. It's usually, but not always, the uneducated ones. It's usually, but not always, the older married ones who listen to their husbands. They are the victims of sexism and vote against their best interests.

Statistically, I think their numbers are greater than African Americans who will vote against their best interests.

So my answer has always been no.

[Beearewhyain]

94. Wow, just wow

Please reconsider the subject line.

[thesquanderer]

95. Yes, I'd say tougher for black man than a woman, all else being equal.

After all, if nothing else, about 53% of the voters are women, and only about 13% are AA.

Obama was an especially strong candidate. He had tremendous charisma and oratory skills, and did not carry much baggage. Hillary is not as strong a candidate (having none of those advantages), but luckily is benefitting from very weak opposition.

Of course if Warren had run, they's be throwing all kinds of stuff at her too. But she would have provided less ammunition, had less baggage, and is a more dynamic figure (again, more charisma, better orator). We'd have done better with her, IMO. But Hillary will still win, and she will be a good president.

[duffyduff]

105. Still providing Gerthian talking points about "baggage," all of which are fabrications.

Elizabeth Warren couldn't get elected president.

[Grey Lemercier]

110. Warren would also gave crushed Trump. nt

[thesquanderer]

126. Even if the baggage were 100% fabricated, it's still there.

She had extremely high unfavorables outside of the Dem base. (Obama did not suffer that when he ran; Warren does not suffer that.) Of course there's been a lot of fabrication. Unlike Warren (or Obama when he first ran), she's been the long-term subject of right-wing attacks (over 20 years). But that fact that so much of it is fabrication doesn't mean it's irrelevant to her electability. Again, I think we're lucky that Trump is her opponent.

BTW, can you clarify "Gerthian"? thanks.

[Squinch]

161. Hillary is empirically one of strongest candidates the Democrats have ever put up.

No one has ever had more direct experience going into the job of President. Many people simply can't see that. Wonder why.

And once again, she would not have ANY baggage if
1) the media and the Republicans didn't keep manufacturing it because they can't stand ambitious women, or if
2) gullible readers didn't fall for the scam, every damn time even though NO WRONGDOING HAS EVER been proven against her, or if
3) those same gullible readers didn't perpetuate the manufactured myth by claiming "she has baggage."

[thesquanderer]

173. Her experience/qualifications are outstanding. But the baggage is still real.

High unfavorables are baggage, regardless of how they got that high. It's some combination of unfair attacks (Benghazi, for example), fair attacks (yes there have been some), and whatever visceral reason it is that some people find her off-putting (yes, even some people who find Elizabeth Warren appealing, so it's not strictly a female thing).

As for the fair attacks, while I am a fan of the general American principle of "presumed innocent until proven guilty" when it comes to the justice system, sometimes outside of the justice system, you know when something isn't right even if, as you say, "NO WRONGDOING HAS EVER been proven." Like, I still think OJ probably killed Nicole. So starting from the beginning, I have a high level of confidence that her cattle futures trade was not on the up-and-up regardless of what could or couldn't be proven, and I suspect that virtually anyone who read up on the details would feel the same. And while no one could *prove" she had orchestrated the White House travel office firings, there are enough indications to believe it is quite likely (the wikipedia entry, despite being wikipedia, provides a good overview). And it remains fishy that the Rose law firm billing records were mysteriously finally found, a week after the statute of limitations had run out on what they would have been relevant to. And while I am not inclined to believe the allegations of mixing state department business with Clinton foundation contribution, she of all people should have been more concerned about, as they say, even the *appearance* of impropriety (again, wikipedia has what I think is a reasonable overview). And honestly, she was not dodging sniper fire in Bosnia. Seriously, some of her baggage is home-made, and not something you could blame on anyone else.

[Skittles]

96. sexism is far more pervasive than racism

there has never been a female president and we are OVER HALF THE POPULATION

[senseandsensibility]

97. You're right, Skittles.

[niyad]

136. exactly, although there are many who absolutely refuse to see it.

[Skittles]

137. that's part of it

[alarimer]

191. It's still acceptable for many.

The kinds of everyday sexism we have all had to deal with: street harassment, sexual harassment at the office (can't believe this is still a thing), the pinkification of EVERYTHING, the fact that boys' clothes say "Adventurer" while girls' clothes say "Pretty," that men still tell me I need to "smile more", etc. etc.

We all have these stories. In fact many were related here and elsewhere about the daily drumbeat of harassment women faced after Donald's Trumps "Grab them by the *****" came out. Also the fact that many men think that was no big deal.

[okieinpain]

99. Ive always said if you think

They treat president obama bad wait till hillary gets the job. Were in for an interesting 4 years.

[Ken Burch]

103. I've heard of "refighting the primaries"...but "refighting the 2008 primaries"?

Not only have you forgotten the birther slur, you've apparently also forgotten that people have been calling for Barack Obama's death for almost eight years now.

Look, I agree that Hillary has been treated horribly by the misogynist right(gender played no role in the 2016 primaries...opposition to HRC was strictly on the issues),and that Weiner is lower-than-scum but Obama has been treated just as badly as Hillary the whole time he's been either a candidate or a sitting president.

And it would have been an unforgiveable betrayal of the African-American community if Obama had not been nominated in 2008.

It would have sent this message to all black people in the country:

"No...none of you will ever be president".

It's likely that no black person would ever have sought the Democratic nomination again.

Why would they even have bothered?

What possible argument could anyone ever have made to persuade ANY person of color to try again if the 2008 nomination had gone differently? They'd all have said "screw it...you made it clear none of us will ever get it".



Every AA person in the country would have said "why should any of us bother? This was the safest, most unthreatening

Hillary has had it rough, but you seem to have forgotten

[duffyduff]

104. What Obama went through doesn't even come close to what HRC endured

Please don't rewrite history.

[Foggyhill]

107. Racism is acute, but not as pervasive

The social stigma of being sexist is or misoginist Is not as high in society at large. This doesn't say blacks don't face a more acute challenge from a wide swath of society than the average women

Sexism in various degrees though is something that is still pervasive. So, pervasive that many women have absorbed it and are themselves sexists

Considering women in a fact a majority and still face so many challenges tells you how pervasive it is.

The worse off of course are women of color; they are subject to both misogyny within all society, even their own, and also face racism

[bettyellen]

123. Ben, you think it's possible there's horrible misogyny much earlier and after 2008 but it magically

Disappeared that campaign season? That's not quite how it works. Over time, it will slowly erode for all women, but it's not like UFO where there are magical sightings then it disappears. It's basically a feature or circumstance of the landscape of our lives.

[Ken Burch]

146. Of course I don't think misogyny disappeared (it's "Ken", not "Ben").

or homophobia or transphobia or Islamophobia or antisemitism. Historically oppressed groups are still fighting oppression.

To my knowledge, nobody in the progressive spectrum was actually claiming that misogyny is a thing of the past. If there are such people, they are idiots.

What I said was it wasn't a significant factor in the Democratic primaries. People who supported Bernie did so because they agreed with him on the issues and felt him to have greater integrity. They were not driven by hatred of the idea of a woman becoming president. If that had been the issue, how do you explain the fact that 95% of the people who ended up supporting Bernie started out supporting Elizabeth Warren when it seemed possible that she might run?

The issues that animated Bernie's supporters were economic injustice(AND social injustice-none of us ever dismissed that set of issues, contrary to popular slander) opposition to U.S. militarism(Bernie could have placed greater emphasis on that, agreed), and reducing corporate control of politics and daily life. There was nothing in that set of priorities that was ever equivalent to indifference to sexism or misogyny. Why is it so hard to accept that we would have exactly felt the same way about Hillary's candidacy if she had been male, or that we would have been just as supportive as Bernie if her name had been Berniece?

What purpose does it serve to continue to argue that the only reason Hillary didn't get 90% of the primary vote was that some of us couldn't handle a woman having power? We were all fine with that. We still are. The tiny minority who weren't went away and vanished.

The primaries are long over. We are all united behind the ticket. We all get it that misogyny drives a lot of the right.

You've having an argument with no one in this party.


And there's especially no point in trying to argue(if that is what the OP is doing, and I hope I'm wrong about that) that the venom currently being directed against Hillary means she should have been the nominee in 2008 rather than Obama. Given how little has changed on race in this country with an African-American in the White House, it's hard to imagine that gender politics would be significantly better now if Hillary had been nominated eight years ago.

[bettyellen]

147. But that is exactly what you said - it had "no role" and aside from that... You also seem to

Forget she beat more than one opponent. This is not about Bernie- it's about the voters. And you can bet your ass there are were tons of them that fell for the negative image of Hillary built by RWers that played into stereotypical attitudes about women and power. Was it you that said you'd be happy "if she knew her place" in the senate? Yeah, but I've read worse here.

You might have not made the connection but that's part of Warrens popularity with people- she is not running-
But the minute a woman declares an ambition and competes studies have shown her popularity takes a very big hit. You're kidding yourself if you think there is no misogyny among Dems. There certainly has been, and we saw it here during the primaries.

[Ken Burch]

148. I meant that it had no role in the Democratic primaries. Not that it played no role this year.

Last edited Sun Oct 30, 2016, 07:04 PM - Edit history (1)

I corrected my initial post when I saw the confusion I had caused in my initial wording. I had always meant to refer to the Democratic primaries only and apologize for my initial unclear phrasing. I'm sorry for the unintentional meaning I conveyed.

Misogyny is playing a huge role in the fall campaign. The far right are the ones to blame.

Not people who preferred Obama in '08 or Bernie in '16.

Warren was popular BEFORE she ruled out running, for the record. Among women as well as men.

If you're saying it was misogynistic to ever support ANY Dem but Hillary for the nomination, you are wrong. It was truly based the issues. It was her attitude towards corporate power, her past support of right-wing trade deals and the use of force as a large element of American foreign policy.

There has obviously been a long-standing right-wing vilification campaign against Hillary, and all of it was and is despicabl.

That said...we are all working hard for the ticket now, so why are you calling people in THIS party over a viewpoint none of us take? Why are you being confrontational towards other Dems at a time when we all need to be trusting each other to work for victory?

[bettyellen]

149. If you really think that these attitudes are there, then just disappear only to reappear again....

I don't know what to say to you. It's a cultural phenomenon and it seems like you don't get it- as if you think it's a choice people are making and it's easily turned in and off. That's not how life works. You were called out for some sexist shot- lots of DUers were. I'm not needing to refight the primary but for fucks sake- let's not rewrite the past so soon. There was lots of misogyny here. So much so, they had to reinvent the moderation. And NO it was not all based on rational thoughts. You must have missed the many confession there ads where people admit they had an irrational hatred that now confuses them.

[duffyduff]

177. Sexism is non-partisan

In many ways, the so-called "left" men are bigger sexists than those on the right.

I am somebody who lived through the 1960s and 1970s, so I KNOW how bad these guys can get with their attitudes.

Time hasn't changed one thing.

[bettyellen]

150. You're not listening- women who do run sink in popularity. not people who are encouraged to run. wTF

You're also putting words in my mouth. What bullshit.

The sexism here was thick, and they didn't all go to JPR either. That's the reality and we won't wall paper it over for people like you- people who said they "preferred" when Hillary "knew her place". Those were YOUR words and they are hella sexist. Stop pretending otherwise.

[Ken Burch]

157. OK, women who run often do face a loss of popularity.

Elizabeth Warren probably wouldn't have faced as much of that if she had run.

And that doesn't mean that it's universally misogynist to support a male candidate when a female candidate is running.

Preferring Trump to Hillary is misogynist.
Dems and progressives are fighting misogyny by working for Hillary with all our might now.

Preferring Bernie to HIllary in the primaries wasn't misogyny

Preferring Obama to Hillary eight years ago wasn't misogyny.

And the country would not be LESS misogynist if only Hillary had been acclaimed as nominee in March or faced no serious opposition in 2008.

Racism would probably be even worse. And the black community would have probably given up on the idea that one of them might be president. Would YOU have you could tell that community that the defeat of Obama for the nomination was a final and permanent rejection of the idea of any black person ever winning that office?

Dems and progressives are fighting misogyny by working for Hillary with all our might now.


I think the OP is picking a fight that no one wants or needs to have with her. Nobody in this party is arguing that the US isn't misogynistic. And given the hard work both of the Obamas are doing to help Hillary get elected, I don't know that you help her by demanding that everyone agree that women have it rougher than people of color.

Hillary is getting all sorts of abuse from misogynist. A person doesn't have to agree that female candidates get more abuse than candidates of color to acknowledge that and be outraged by it. Besides, at some point(assuming Trump doesn't get in and abolish elections) at some point a person who is openly part of the LGBTQ community will win a presidential nomination, and it's not likely that that nominee will get any better treatment than Hillary is now receiving from pro-oppression forces in this country.

[bettyellen]

171. You realize you're putting words in my mouth and using the same "not all"

Gosh- like this all doesnt happen more often than not while discussing sexism w men on the Internet. Hush women because ----.

And then you spend a whole paragraph staging the "oppression olympics" and while I guess it's nice because you didn't tell us to STFU with our opinions now because women have it worse in X place, you are saying "not our time to complain". "Not Hillarys place" to run you said.

Quite a history you have here of advising women what to do when. Seriously- maybe you ought to pause to reflect before you post on this issue.

For some reason you don't respect me enough to actually read what I say- because 90% of your replies is about things I did not say at all. Think about it- you can't even be bothered to check you're having a knee jerk reaction to what someone else (not me) might have said once.
It's been interesting, but you're shadow boxing someone else and spewing the usual cliches, so I am out of here.


You want women to stop talking about misogyny on the net? Well you got your wish. It's because I dont like talking to a wall, not that you showed me "my place" like you tried with Hillary once.

[duffyduff]

176. I generally don't listen to what dudes have to say about feminism and women

They are so entitled they don't even realize how entitled they are, and then they continue to mansplain to us women what feminism, sexism, and misogyny are.

Men as a group oppress women as a group. It is undeniable FACT. One of the ways they do it is trying to shut us up.

[Ken Burch]

181. Now you're just lecturing me.

I've never told you to STFU and I never would.

It's just that nobody here disagrees with you that the Right has treated Hillary horribly.

The right-wing is misogynist. Horrifically so.

Misogyny is a blight on this country. We all get that.

Why is it so important to you to get people to say that misogyny is WORSE than racism? Or that Hillary is getting worse treatment than Obama?
What I'm not understanding is why the OP and yourself seem to be lashing out at your fellow progressives(a significant number of whom are women) on this.

To my knowledge, nobody on this board is defending or minimizing misogynistic attacks on Hillary. Nobody. If someone has, I denounce that.

And I've never said that women shouldn't talk about misogyny on the net.


As far as I can understand it, the only point of disagreement you and I have is the role of misogyny in the primaries.

It looks to me as though you're still angry that ANYONE opposed Hillary in the primaries this year OR in 2008 and that you are convinced that the only reason anyone did was fear and hatred of the idea of a woman being president. And it also looks as though you feel that the only way anyone could have proved to you that they oppose misogyny was to have automatically supported her in the Democratic primaries against any other possible candidate, on whatever platform she chose to run on.

That simply isn't fair and it simply isn't true.

In my experience, the vast majority of people who voted for Sanders(I think this was also the case with Obama, to a lesser degree) her solely because that group of people thought she was too right wing on some issues. It's a mystery to me why you can't seem to accept that.

If anyone opposed her just because of her gender, that person was and is a bigoted idiot. I was not one of those people. I join you in denouncing anyone who did oppose her solely because of her gender.

And I think Anthony Weiner is a twisted scumbag who may well have got himself caught sexting on purpose just to keep his wife from serving on the White House staff.

[bettyellen]

185. Women here are discussing how it's worse than they could have imagined- and you are asking them to

Women here are discussing how it's worse than they could have imagined- it's a pertinent discussion and we are NOT limiting it to the GOP. I totally get why you'd love to pretend any won a here said that.... We have not. We saw lots of sexism coming from all corners. Tough shit if you don't want us to discuss it. It is not refighting anything or limited to one candidate or party- much as you'd like to point fingers.

If you have nothing to add to the discussion of sexism .... Just step off and stop harassing us for wanting to talk.
Go away. Seriously, you're being a huge jerk and replying to things I never said- again!! Seriously, stop
Putting words in my mouth. Try listening without complaint when you have absolutely nothing to contribute but nay saying. It's obnoxious.

[Ken Burch]

186. I agree that Hillary has been treated worse than anyone expected in the fall.

I condemn sexism from wherever it comes from.

Hillary is being treated horribly. Anyone who opposes her because of her gender(or who opposes any female candidate for that reason, is totally wrong.

We are all in agreement here on that.

This thread sounds like a call-out, and sometimes call-outs are necessary and I'm not sure who on DU you feel needs to be called out on this at this moment in the campaign and for what.

What do you need to hear that would satisfy you that everyone else on DU gets it that misogyny is a horrible problem? What is the purpose of trying to get everyone to agree that Hillary is getting worse treatment than Barack was in 2008?

I'm going to stop posting in this thread now, but please believe me that I get it that Hillary is getting put through the mill in an unspeakable way. I just don't think that anyone other than the Republicans, at this stage, is to blame for that.

Post what you want to post. I agree that misogyny is a problem. And I stand with you in opposing it.

[bettyellen]

187. Perhaps when you see women discuss their issues you could refrain from this "it's not so bad" crap?

Or asking us what's the point - or worse - what would "it take" for us to be "satisfied"?!?what the ever loving fuck made you think those are anything but trying to squelch conversations you're not comfortable with.

Get a grip- you're not supposed to be confortable. That it occurs to you to prioritize your feeling over our disgust and angst. Seriously? You're basically intruding to disrupt here. And it's not the first time. Just stop it if you can't offer more than this "not us" "not me" crap. Women here have seen plenty of misogyny from both sides. That is took the party's nomination to put a stop to it here is quite unfortunate. We are talking about the culture in general- and will not whitewash our experience just to please you.

[smirkymonkey]

196. You are trying to argue with a man. Of course he doesn't see it.

It doesn't happen to him, so it doesn't exist and it certainly doesn't matter.

[bettyellen]

199. Yes- in another post he asks what will it take to get us to shut up about this issue ?!?! Why in

The world does he think that is any way to talk to women here at DU? This is where we come to discuss things and not be shushed. Once again, he is telling women what their place is, jerk.

[smirkymonkey]

106. K&R

[UCmeNdc]

114. K&R

[UCmeNdc]

119. I think you're trying too hard to make a comparison here......

Both are equally tough.

But Hillary and women in general I think have it harder because, white men and white women feel more at home attacking another white woman trying to do a traditional man's job.

[Monk06]

117. One thing I can say with confidence is that the first female president is going to get as rough a

ride as the first AA president

We are looking at the death rattle of middle aged white male in power in America

They will not go quietly

[JustAnotherGen]

121. Kick and Rec

[niyad]

133. I have known since 2008 that the mud, and bs, and hatred, and vitriol and sheer, undiluted ugliness

what was unleashed on obama is NOTHING compared to what is being, and will continue to be, dumped on HRC.

[Grey Lemercier]

145. I do agree totally with this, it is going to be a primordial hate fest

[Skittles]

156. absolutely correct

[duffyduff]

175. It has been going on for close to 30 years

Obama NEVER endured what HRC has endured because racism is far less acceptable than sexism. Sexism is truly non-partisan.

[DemonGoddess]

160. I knew this would be ugly

Anyone with half a brain KNEW this would be ugly. Strong women terrify the troglodytes that are spewing their sexist and racist garbage. Even more than strong people of color.

I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of women, not just on this board, but everywhere, have faced nastiness due to their gender in the workplace. We've certainly seen the effects of it financially, for years, by being consistently paid LESS than men who are less qualified for the same damn job.

I think it's apples and oranges in a way though. Yes, PBO has dealt with unprecedented obstruction because he is a black man. But I think what gets their goats even worse is the fact that he is BIRACIAL.

HRC, on the other hand, has been vilified for YEARS because she is a strong and intelligent woman who DARES to compete with the 'good ol' boys' and do better than them.

Just the FACT that she has no dangly bits is enough for some of these asshats to manufacture whatever they feel they can get away with, in an effort to put her in her place.

[get the red out]

168. Agree

I hate misogyny and racism. That is the creed of the Republican Party.

[Mike Nelson]

170. No...

...having President Obama exposed racism in the US we thought was lesser... having President Clinton will do the same for sexism - it's already started and will continue throughout, just like the racism.

[RandySF]

180. Not easy for a woman, an African American or a Jew

I hope we never again hear "if only....wins the primary, he/she wins." We've seen the lynching of Ovama in effigy. We've seen "Trump that bitch" and we saw the chant of "Jew-S-A". We even saw a Republican senator insult his opponent's Asian background. The right wing hate machine works overtime no matter whom we nominate.

[andym]

183. Any woman would be at a disadvantage in a country with as much sexism as the USA

But Hillary Clinton has other issues on which she has been attacked, which seem to be as least important as sexism. Her biggest problem is that her trustworthiness with the general public is still under 50% in most polls (in the 30's), due to years of GOP slander and email server investigation. It is what it is-- I think she will win despite these potential problems, but they have no doubt had their effect.

[tammywammy]

188. Hillary's been attacked since she dared to be Hillary Rodham and not Hillary Clinton in Arkansas.

I was at a friend's prewedding party tonight. She said she's keeping her last name. No one batted an ameye and I gave her a fist bump.

[bettyellen]

189. Times have changed since she emerged on the political scene - just not enough!

[Orsino]

193. We knew who we were nominating.

A candidate with many convenient carrying handles for right-wing media, the mention of whose very name provokes visceral reactions in certain demographics. We gambled that her immense popularity would more than offset the bullshit, and we were correct.

That our nominee is a woman isn't going to cost us the White House, and the prize a few years down the road will be an electorate even less panicked about her vagina.

[mahina]

197. It woudln't matter if we ran a white guy named Bob Smith. They are manipulated

And their hate is cultivated by people who profit from their ignorance.

It's horrifying. I got my first 'string her up' response on fb yesterday when I chimed in on a bogus article.

My country, oh my God. Thank heavens most people are rational and good.

[democrattotheend]

203. Exactly

I think a substantial part of the animosity toward Hillary is due to her being an outspoken woman, just as some of the animosity toward Obama stems from his race. But I think it cheapens the word sexism to suggest that Republicans wouldn't be all over the FBI letter if Hillary were male.

[FBaggins]

202. That's the only difference that you can see between the two?

One is female and white while the other is male and black? That's it?

Obama was many times the candidate that Clinton is (with not one bit of his strength ourr her weakness coming from gender). Thank goodness she gets to run against Trump!