What lessons do YOU take from the results?

[Ken Burch]

Here's mine:

1)NO "firewall" is fireproof. Organization in blue states must be carefully maintained and the candidates must go wherever votes are shifting.

2)It's on US to make people think voting matters. We can't just DEMAND that people vote.

3)We must treat activists and voters like they matter. Loyalty must be earned and re-earned through constant good faith effort.

4)"Social Justice" and "Economic Justice" must BOTH be fought for if either is to be won. They are distinct YET related and we cannot elect a Democratic president unless we pledge to address both.

5)Enthusiasm matters more than donations.

Since we all know keeping things the same means we will always lose, add your suggested lessons below.

[bigmonkey]

1. Two things

1-The electoral college has to go.
2-The role of the media in the elections in the US has to be changed. Currently the editors of the MSM serve as gatekeepers, and the MSM continue to encourage anything, including lies and innuendo, to boost ratings. This is insanity.

[snappyturtle]

6. I too have thought that the electoral college needs to go until

I learned more about it. The electoral college reflects a state's
congressional representation in the Senate and in the House...
to do less would disenfranchise many. imho

[Red Mountain]

10. Would it though?

A true general election opens up the whole country. No swing states, etc.

It does present risks with regard to voter suppression in some states.

I think if you're going to eliminate the electoral college there has to be a set of voting standards to which every state must adhere for Federal elections.

[dhol82]

76. If we had mail in ballots that would obviate voter intimidation

Don't understand why this can't happen.

[CrispyQ]

104. While my county has mail in ballots & it's such a convenience, there are arguments against it.

You lose the privacy of the voting booth. Suppose a household has an intimidating, dominating member who collects all the ballots & votes them their way. It could happen. How often? I don't know, but this type of voter disenfranchisement is eliminated with a voting booth. So, I guess you weigh one type of disenfranchisement against another? Personally, I would like to see federal standards that monitor the number of polling places, establish early/weekend voting days, & declare Election Day a national holiday. Make it fair, but make people go to the polls to cast their vote.

[dhol82]

105. Yes, making voting compulsory is a good idea

I see your point about the voting booth. Did not think in that direction.
Frankly, why can we not have multiple options? Certainly make more polling places available.
Extending the time period for voting is also a good idea since if we can only vote on one day the lines become untenable.
Lots of good ideas out there but implementing them with an obstructionist opposition makes it difficult.

[CrispyQ]

106. My prediction - this republican controlled government will strike fast & bold,

while the dems flounder on the sidelines. Some people think there will be such infighting among the Trump crew, that they will devour themselves, but I think Pence/McConnell/Ryan will stay focused & a lot of damage will be done. I hope I'm wrong, but you can practically see the drool on all three of their faces.

[dhol82]

107. Agree

The Trump show will be kept in their little corral while the Ryan/McConnell cabal gets cracking.

[DirkGently]

111. Well if people think independents are "spoilers" now,

Imagine if 30% nationally could win an entire election.

I'm open to discussing the EC vs. popular elections as well, but it's not as simple as some people smarting from this loss seem to think.

If you're not in Florida, NY, CA, Texas, etc., no presidential candidate will even bother coming to talk to you, because you won't matter.

We'd also end up with a purely national campaign overall. The grass-roots stuff would matter less. Local people and local press would be largely irrelevant.

[politicat]

22. My issue with the EC is that is profoundly non-democratic... but there is a fix.

One Wyoming or North Dakota vote is worth 3 to 4 times in the EC what a California, New York or even Colorado vote is worth. It takes 3-4 urban voters, 80% of the population, to counter-balance each vote from the 20% of the rural population. And that's not okay.

But it's an artificial limitation, not constitutionally mandated. It derives from the Apportionment acts of 1911, 41 and 59, which fixed the size of the House (394 in 1911, raised by the other two acts to 433 and 435). At the time of the 1911 act, this meant every Member of the House represented around or up to 200,000 people. This was primarily a practicality matter: the Capitol Building is tight on space, and continues to be tight.

If we returned to the benchmark of 200K persons per Member, we'd have around 2000 Members, and a deliberative body that large would be unwieldy. Setting a new standard -- 1 Member per 500K of population, would increase the size of the House, without removing the minimum representation of the small population states. Building or acquiring more space is relatively trivial --it's an infrastructure project! -- and we have far superior technological means to allow for the management of the body.

It's primarily a thought experiment at the moment -- this is power, and without control of the House and Senate, it's not power that will be redistributed -- but it's not impossible, and it comes without the existential risks of convening a ConCon (and to change the EC, we're looking at either significant, multiple amendments, or ConCon.)

This country was less than 50% urban until between 1940 and 1950. Today, we're 80% urban. The EC made sense when we were primarily an agricultural society with limited communication, but that's changed and it won't change back.

[kenfrequed]

96. No, it must absolutely go!

The presidency is the only office in the US where we as a people come together as a nation to vote on the direction of this nation.

One county in Minnesota has more people in it than the state of Wyoming and they already get two Senators. Their votes shouldn't magically count for more for the only office that every American votes on together.

The electoral college treats American citizens unequally and it completely makes Democrats voting in Texas or the deep south practically useless in presidential politics.

[Amimnoch]

2. When you use tRumps insults on conservative men and women,

The finally start to get it.

[marylandblue]

3. Build Coalitions

The two major parties are broad coalitions of voters. We got African Americans, Latino and college educated whites. We used to have working class whites, but we've lost them. We need to win them back.

[beaglelover]

4. (1) Never believe polls (2) Never believe your side is going to win (3) the Electoral College needs

to be fixed or eliminated.

[Grey Lemercier]

14. the EC will never be abolished,and the only way to really fix it is to increase the number of seats

in the House and thus more EV's to disperse to the huge states.

A Wyoming EV vote is worth 3.62 times MORE than a California EV.

[tarheelsunc]

30. If we work on politics at the state level...

we can get the electoral vote interstate compact passed, which will render the EC as meaningless.

[Grey Lemercier]

32. it will just end up being a Blue blob I fear, the Red states will never sign on, and the RWers

in Swing states will go INSANE if they are linked to a pre set Blue wall.

THAT will cause brutal and widespread violence.

Only hope is to increase the House, and THAT is going to almost impossible. The RW has, over the decades, played 3 dimensional chess for the long run. They rope-a-doped the hell out of the Dems at national level, with this faux narrative of "Oh, the Republican party is on it's last legs". They now have more power than anytime since the Civil War, when you look at the totality of local, state and national levels of governance.

[geek tragedy]

5. 1) don't trust data and polls too much, because data is only as good as the

precision of the instrument recording it.

2) we all need to be more humble

3) we need to treat white voters as an ethnic voting bloc that has its own peculiar traits and sensitivities. Trump won by running up the score with white voters. This is still a 70% white electorate, so we really can't afford to let them do that going forward.

[LeftInTX]

81. Treat the working class as a voting block

Many AA and Latinos are working class. Tweaks can be made for ethnicity. I live in a large Latino community (San Antonio) I have no idea if white people in the rust belt feel that Mexican immigrants are taking their jobs away, but I just don't think so. They feel that NAFTA has taken their jobs away.

The Latino community aren't NAFTA fans either. (Unless they've profited from it, but those are usually Rs)

[treestar]

83. maybe we should quit catering to their feelings

they are the ones who claim to be so tough, tell them to man up and be big boys. Tough love works with these people. We are too nice to them.

[geek tragedy]

84. Working class is not a bloc, they vote along racial lines nt

[LostOne4Ever]

7. Hubris destroys political parties. Nt

[PassingFair]

98. plus one nt

[BREMPRO]

8. who do we represent??

1)don't alienate white working class voters by looking and presenting a face and policies so rooted in racial,ethnic, and religious diversity and inclusion, and use Hollywood and music celebrities at events so that they don't relate to so that you look like the "everything but working class christian white party"

2)have a compelling narrative, policies that represent the majority of Dems and charismatic personable candidate less scandal prone..

3)get out of the limo and jets and corporate fundraising events and meet and convince people on the ground, not in the elitist cloud.

4)Fight stronger against voter suppression efforts.

5)put effort into winning back the state houses and local govt.

6) 50 states 50, 50, 50!

I was strong Bernie supporter (and voted for Clinton) as were 75% of the dems at our caucus in my hometown. it was a big turnout before we caucused we were asked to make a case for our candidate. there were several Enthusiastic supporters of Bernie that made great cases rooted in a progressive change and policies that we were all passionate about. The only speaker for Clinton just went on and on about how important it was to vote for her to be the first women president. "I'm with her" is not a winning slogan/campaign.. That's how it looked on the ground here..

[Ligyron]

44. That's interesting. eom

[DirkGently]

114. Good points all around. n/t

[BREMPRO]

115. Thanks. n/t

[phylny]

9. I'll start with the most unpopular thought first:

1) Stop opposing guns, period. I hate guns. I hate hate hate them. I have no use for them. I hate mass murders, I hate suicides, I hate one life lost to them. Where I live, in Virginia, guns are more important than Jesus Christ. You could BE Jesus Christ running for the President and be against guns, and you'd lose. Let the NRA and the gun nuts win this in the short term.

2) Here's another unpopular one, and one that hurts me the most: Let people suffer a bit as a result of THEIR votes. I can't believe I'm so lacking in compassion with this one, but the future of our nation is at risk. I work around poor people and they have no idea that when they don't vote (possibly 25% of them) or they vote for Republicans, they are voting to cut their benefits off. We've already had some panicky parents who didn't understand that they might lose Medicaid for their child. I'm sure the owner of my company voted for Trump (she wants to keep all her money). Of course, 75% of our business comes from Medicaid. SMH. I wish there were a way to keep our tax dollars within our states. New York keeps all their money, California keeps all theirs. It would hurt where I live in Virginia, but there's enough $$$ in Northern Virginia to keep us afloat.

3) Call your Senators and Congresspeople - monthly. Visit them if you're able when they visit constituents near you. Let the Democratic ones know that you support them and have their backs, and if you can, support them financially. For those with Republican representatives, put a face to your suffering and to your concerns.

4) Demand - DEMAND - that our Democratic representatives oppose and obstruct. Don't play nice. Act like Republicans.

5) Start early making sure everyone, Democratic or Republican, is permitted to vote.

6) Support good journalism with a paid subscription.

7) This is my favorite one - Democrats who are running in the primaries need to keep it positive and stop denigrating the opposing candidates.

[Nay]

89. I can't agree more with your ideas, especially 1 and 2. I live in VA too and the gun

craziness here is off the charts. There are TONS of guns all over the country, it is a battle we have already lost, and it's time to stop talking about it and let the bullets fly. Trying to control guns in any but the most superficial way is a recipe for loss at the ballot box. There will have to be a seismic change in this country's actual philosophy that organically grows from the citizens, and that ain't happening anytime soon. I know many people who STILL believe that Obama is coming for their guns in the next month or two. ( )

As for voters suffering the consequences, I have felt this way for many years. Not because I'm a vindictive old bitch, but because it is so clearly the only way many people ever learn anything. And even then they don't learn it! So, bring on the consequences.

[Scruffy1]

11. Time for a changing of the guard.

You can't hang around Washington forever without wearing out your welcome. Harry Truman, John Kennedy, and Barak Obama were one term senators. Jimmy Carter was a Georgia governor. In Indiana, the bosses went for Evan Bayh for "name recognition" and he got his ass handed to him. Same in Wisconsin. It's just like baseball. You have to be bringing up new ones all the time. The real problem is that years of bullshit lying by the media takes it toll. A lot of people on the right and left actually believe the crazy crap about the Clintons killing people. Whether it's true or not is irrelevant, if you have to spend all your time talking about emails or other nonsense you will lose.
Fact is, the fascists are just better at throwing shit at the wall then we are, but if we went in that direction we would lose our soul,or what is left of it. On the left both Kerry's and Hillary's war authorization cost them a lot of votes. The Democratic Party should stand for something besides the status quo. Universal health care has been on the platform since before I was born and yet neither of our last 2 Presidential candidates went for it. The real myth to me is that the ones who don't vote are in the center. I know a lot of lefties who refused to vote for Hillary because they consider her a warhawk and a neoliberal. Rightly or wrongly, it might have been the difference in the election, yet the Party keeps looking for the votes from the "center". Personally, I think anyone who hasn't chosen sides by now is probably comatose.

[BlueProgressive]

26. John Kennedy served in the house from 1946-1952,

and was in his second term in the senate (elected 1952 and 1958) when he ran for president in 1960.

[marybourg]

55. That position came from stunning defeats when running

progressives, eg. Adlai Stevenson, Hubert Humphrey, George McGovern.

[Ken Burch]

58. Stevenson ran against a war hero...anyone would have got creamed by "IKE".

There was no "centrist" in '52 or '56 who'd have done any better.

Humphrey lost to Nixon because Johnson forced him to be nominated as a defender of the war. Eugene McCarthy or either Kennedy brother would have won in '68 running to Humphrey's left in the fall.

And in '72 any Dem would have lost badly to Nixon after the China trip happened...Even "Scoop" Jackson (nobody wanted '72 to be another race between TWO defenders of the war).

[Demsrule86]

87. The 'new' progressives.I am a liberal, but I have seen liberals lose the presidency time and time

again. Running, a liberal-assuming they could survive a primary and most don't- will most likely lead to a 48 state loss...it always does...all the Clinton bashing is popular. But in 92 a progressive could not win the presidency...for all the whining about Bill Clinton he saved us from a coming crushing defeat at the hands of Bush1. If we want to win with liberal candidates and I think we can ultimately, we must first do the heavy lifting...we need media:both radio and television to get out our ideas. It takes work to educate a nation

[frazzled]

12. We're living in the wrong places; and we don't know the rest of the country

I'm not joking about this. Several weeks before the election I read an Op-Ed in the NY Times called something on the order of "If you want progress (or something like that) move to Iowa." I can't seem to find it using their search function right now, but the argument ran something like this:

Liberals have increasingly tended to congregate in a few places: large cities instead of rural areas, coastal states instead of the interior. There are more of us, but our votes don't count (I think especially given the electoral college).

We live in bubbles. I know I do: I live in a large urban area that goes solidly blue every time. My state went blue this election. Everyone I know supported Clinton. I honestly don't know a single crazy Republican (I've probably encountered some moderate, old-school Republicans). We think everyone is like us.

I'm not suggesting we really give up our blue paradises to move to rural Nebraska or anything. But I do think this election opened my eyes to how sheltered we are. It's still hard for me to digest the fact that there are so many people who would vote for a man with so much vulgarity, bigotry, lying, meanness, and lack of knowledge or facts. It's been hiding under the surface for some time, but it came bubbling out into the open last week.

I feel like I've lost my faith in humanity, that I've been living in a dream world in which I thought facts and kindness and caring were the norm, only to wake up to a holy nightmare. It's been really hard to digest. It's going to take some time to figure out what to do. But at least my eyes are opened. I will never give up my liberal ideals and my moral and ethical values, but I will be more wary of the dangerous America out there.

[Nay]

93. I know what you mean when you say you've lost faith. I never had much, but now

it's all gone. Even with all the advantages of living in an advanced first world country, the people here still haven't wised up. You can give them books and books and all they do is eat the covers.

As for moving to red states to turn them blue, it's impossible unless industry/workplaces open up there, too. And even then, it's hard to get urban lovers to move to rural areas because there simply are no amenities. Even people who'd love to live in rural areas can't move because there are no jobs.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

13. Hillary got fewer votes than Obama got in 08....

So much for the "crowds don't matter" crap we heard in the primaries.

[BREMPRO]

15. Right, crowds matter because if they are motivated enough

To wait in line for a rally, and get energized by the candidate, they will be more likely to vote..one of.the most important factors distinguishing the candidates was enthusiasm...and by this I don't mean just for their candidate, but also against the opponent. Putting aside all the last minute FBI bs, this enthusiasm gap was very evident. Also the appearance of elitism by relying on Hollywood and music/celebrities and high priced fundraisers over crowds is a losing strategy.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

24. People weren't looking for a 90s rerun either.....

Limbaugh was hoping Hillary would win as part of his revival.

What's he gonna do now?

Defend Trump every time he says something offensive?

[NurseJackie]

16. To never trust NON-DEMOCRATS.

[SharonAnn]

17. Amen1 John Comey comes to mind. Never give any power to a Republican. They know all the

Amen! John Comey comes to mind. Never give any power to a Republican. They know all the dirty tricks! And they use them.

[DemonGoddess]

31. This!!!

Thank you.

[Nay]

91. Oh, a BIG vote for this. Obama sealed our fate when he filled his cabinet with

moneymen, Republicans, etc., and hired Republicans like Comey, and had RW preachers do invocations. SHUN THOSE PEOPLE. SHUN THEM. Be polite, but NEVER put them in power, ffs.

[greatauntoftriplets]

18. P.T. Barnum nailed it.

[Generic Brad]

20. Vote like your life depends on it

Because it does.

[lovemydog]

21. Introspection

& then getting further out of my bubble. Yelling & screaming at people on social media isn't any way to win anything. When you drink too much haterade you're just poisoning yourself.

Loosen up the reigns of the democratic party. Actively bring many more young people in. Bring them in to leadership positions. I don't hate on older people. But the learning curve for younger people is quicker and they have so much to offer. Give them opportunities much faster. Watch them grow the democratic party.

Stop dehumanizing people by using terms like rethugs, repugs, etc. Listen to every person, especially to those who may disagree with you. Otherwise, you become the thing that you dislike in others.

Watch less cable 'news.' It's not news. It's garbage. Spend less time on social media. Read more books. Enjoy nature more. Be the change you want to see achieved. Stop alienating everyone who isn't living in your bubble.

[ericson00]

23. get tough on Islamic terrorism

Trump's performance with voters who voted on terrorism carried him to the White House. Americans are weary of Syrian refugees.

Also, tread lightly in culturally conservative states on transgenderism; you're not going to convince people who haven't been to college that gender can be seen as fluid. Rural people are more traditional and conservative in societies around the world, its always been like that, and probably always be. That being said, also, don't count on a moment's demographics trendline meaning automatic victory in the future, ever.

[LeftInTX]

71. I disagree

Hillary was seen as more capable in this area. She had a better strategy for dealing with the mideast. I think the majority of voters saw it. Sure many voters found the refugee thing upsetting, but I don't think it was a deal breaker. I'm weary of Syrian refugees, but it is what it is.

However, I do agree that we need to tread more lightly on social issues. We can cater to the working class and this will encompass the majority of ethnic minorities. AA and Latinos tend to be working class. Just a bit of tweaking to reach those demographs.

[ericson00]

73. the data says otherwise

and those numbers were the same in decisive swing states MI, WI, and PA.

Surely, if those numbers were just a few points better for Hillary, she'd have won.

[LeftInTX]

78. Ouch

I thought she polled better on terrorism.

I really did.

[kenfrequed]

113. Framing

It was foolish to make so much of this election about terrorism.

I read all the debate questions from all of Hill's debates with Trump and I was stunned at how terrible the questions were. Most of them were national defense and terrorism or they were about stupid scandals.

Maybe her campaign should have done more push back against the debate questions and tried to recenter the debate on the economy and domestic concerns? Those were the issues a lot of voters really cared about and they were the issues that drove the enthusiasm around the Sanders campaign.

I think they were really foolish and too willing to cede to questions that would play to her Secretary of State stuff at a time when a lot of voters were tired of interventionism.

[treestar]

85. They are tired of refugees?

They should try to be refugees. Heavens, reward people for their bigotry? We are already "tough" on terrorism. How to feel sorry for people who are tired of hearing about people who have it far worse than they?

[IcyPeas]

25. polls are meaningless because people lie

many people wouldn't admit they were voting for trump.

[McCamy Taylor]

27. Electronic voting is too easy to hack. Focus on that one issue and it will get better.

Ignore that one issue and it will only get worse.

[vdogg]

28. Trust Nothing

All polls and all pundits are wrong, period.

[Lunabell]

29. We need to run more populist candidates and give up on corporatist candidates.

Democrats used to be for the working class people. Bernie Sanders would have trounced trump with his populist message. Trump lied his way into the hearts and minds of the working class. Bernie would have brought them together with his populist message.

[NurseJackie]

37. Jesusfuck! Again with the "corporatist" and "bankster" bullshit?? Stop it already.

He would have done no such thing.

[Lunabell]

49. Why should we stop?

The truth hurts, huh?

[NurseJackie]

59. Because it's stupid. And false. Paranoid and idiotic.

You guys should have spent more time building up our party's candidate instead of tearing her down out of petty vindictiveness and spite.

And the pettiness continues.

Enjoy your meaningless pity party. It's an exercise in personal vanity that accomplishes nothing.

[Lunabell]

74. Wow.

Who's being vindictive and petty now? The exit polls showed exactly what I said. Bernie would have won not only the popular vote but the electoral vote as well. Hillary was a poor choice when people wanted a populist candidate who championed the working class, she was busy with lobbyists and CEOs. She and the DNC fought the progressive agenda tooth and nail. So you get what you pay for.

[Tanuki]

88. If Bernie had been the nominee, Trump would have lied about him, too, and deceived just as many.

Bernie is an honorable, dedicated man and I am certainly not going to trash him, but Trump would have done so, making a mockery of Bernie's decades of public service by calling him an ineffectual Washington insider, calling attention to the issues surrounding Jane's departure from her job as university president, publishing embarrassing Wikileaks (imagine what the likes of Jeff Weaver and Tad Devine said in e-mails!), deriding Bernie's former association with the Liberty Union Party, and more distorted and hateful crap than any of us can imagine. Trump is a pathological liar and he would have turned the full force of that on Bernie. He and his basket of deplorables would have attacked Bernie relentlessly and unfairly, making a grotesque caricature out of a good man, just as they did with a good woman.

[Duckhunter935]

33. Bernie was right

[NurseJackie]

60. No he wasn't. He couldn't even defeat Hillary.

He was just a spoiler, an an antagonist. He weakened the party and fomented discontent and disunity.

He was foolish.

[Duckhunter935]

63. Hard to win

When your opponent starts with superdelegate votes before one person voted. Not to mention being ignored by our wonderful media.

[PassingFair]

99. Not to mention having the DNC as a wholly owned subsidiary...

of one candidate.

[BeyondGeography]

34. Demographics are not destiny

and identity politics is not a strategy. Hillary lost white women by ten points and turned out millions fewer base voters than Barack Obama. It came down to the quality of the candidate, who had obvious strengths but too many limitations and weaknesses and was unable to overcome an unconventional opponent whose emotional connections to his voters, rancid as they were, enabled him to outperform a lot of turnout models.

You could argue that Trump's win was a triumph of identity politics, but he ran up the score in deep red counties where Obama had been more competitive. Obama won 69 million votes in 2008 by getting a lot of people we didn't get this time around to vote their hopes and not their fears. Trump accomplished pretty much the reverse, but it wasn't all fear-based. Incredible as it seems, a lot of his voters actually expect him to make Washington work better for them. Both, in any case, drove turnout by connecting emotionally.

All elections are different but it always helps to be in tune with the moment. Demographics, identity and a great resume for that matter aren't enough.

[DinahMoeHum]

35. Decisions.Are.Made.By.Those.Who.Show.Up.

If you didn't vote, you have no right to complain when things go wrong.

If you didn't vote, I personally disown you as a fellow American citizen.

[KingCharlemagne]

40. Plus () Infinity - nt

[Else You Are Mad]

36. I think what it really comes down to

Is that we need to stop campaigning only among safe states. By this, I mean, Clinton focused mostly on the coasts and DC. She was preaching to the a choir so to speak. Trump consistently and frequently went into states that Obama solidly won. In this past capaogn, Democrats have forgotten that there are a lot of states in between Manhattan and Los Angeles.

Also, a big problem was enthusiasm. Hillary did not make people outside of her bubble enthusiastic. I mainly blame this on the fact that Hillary gave something to vote against. That is, Hillary's main campaign was the fact she was not a monster like Trump so people should vote against the monster. Trump's campaign, on the other hand, gave people something to vote for. Regardless of whether Trump was right or wrong, his main campaign was that people should vote for him because he will help them. People do not get enthusiastic when they are against something.

[calguy]

38. New Beginnings are sometimes disguised as Painful Endings

[KingCharlemagne]

39. Racism is as American as cherry pie. - nt

[libtodeath]

41. That america started as a racist country and will die as one.

[Cobalt Violet]

42. Thirdway Democrats gave us a President Trump.

Abandoning the working class and failing middle class was beyond stupid.

[BREMPRO]

43. Why so few rec's?? There is a lot of insightful analysis in this thread

that we as Dems can learn from. I'm a bit mystified by the lack of recommendations....

[liquid diamond]

45. Early voting

I would suggest we strongly encourage early voting. This effort would cut down on the amount of voter suppression and long lines. If a voter runs into opposition, there is time to fight it BEFORE election day.

[B Calm]

46. Bernie was right. Democratic pols need to seek his advice,

or the party will continue to lose.

[lunamagica]

47. Never listen to the polls. Never, ever ever

[MyNameGoesHere]

48. If they go low

kneecap them. If they go lower, then wallow in the pig shit with them and let em drown in it. Get dirty and fight like a maniac to destroy them. I do not accept this pig as the new normal.

All the policies are excellent, we got beat because we didn't want to get dirtier than that pig fucker.

[crosinski]

65. Amen

If they go low, we go lower. I'm done playing nice.

[Coyotl]

50. Fixing an election is so easy and you can also easily get away with it. We need majority rule.

We need fair elections, no voter suppression, no gerrymandering, paper ballots, auditing voting, non-partisan election oversight, ....

What we need is majority rule, instead of minority tyranny.

[Ken Burch]

51. That would also include removing the 435 seat size limit on the U.S. House...

so it once again has representation by population(the size limit skews the chamber in favor of red states).

A ratio of one seat to every 750,000 people would be about right(with states smaller than 750,000 keeping their current single seat, obviously).

[Freddie]

52. Agreed

The entire system - the Senate, the House (gerrymandered and too few seats) and the EC are all designed to give advantage to the less populated states. The enemy is quite well aware of this and nothing is going to change at least in the near future. So completely unfair that some people's votes count (a lot) more than others.

[Coyotl]

54. That's what we have now. To undo the skew you ignore state boundaries.

[Ken Burch]

56. I stated that you would leave the one seat states with their single seats.

n/t.

[marybourg]

53. To our electorate, the least qualified

man is preferable to the most qualified woman.

[B Calm]

57. That we need to do away Super Delegates

and have open primaries.

[Duckhunter935]

64. Indeed so

But that scares some, not me. An open party is always best

[B Calm]

79. When around 50% of registered voters are now registered independent

because they feel their political party no longer represents them, you need to get them back. If they expect these voters to show up on election day, they need to be included in the selection process. Letting them have a part in the selection process makes total sense..

[boston bean]

86. Now have??? my god, it has always been that way... damn

[Duckhunter935]

92. Not really

Many more independens now. Oklahoma did it right. Semi open primary, open to Dems and iindependents.

[etherealtruth]

61. Never underestimate the power of fear (even if it is a media or candidate creation) ....

... and the power of scapegoating (harnessing bigotry).

It sounds over simplistic, but I do believe it comes down to these two issues.

"We" were convinced that "we" had problems we don't necessarily have and "we" were convinced it was the fault of the "other"


I live in Michigan (actually I live at ground zero of the Macomb County Reagan Democrat) ... racism and bigotry sell big here.

[0rganism]

62. lessons learned

As Maya Angelou said, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the
first time." This applies to nations of people as well as individuals.

On Tuesday night I learned some things about who we are. I started the
evening at a Vietnamese noodle shop run by immigrants, and saw the smiles fade
from the faces of staff and customers alike as the results started to come in
from the east coast. My next stop was the Democratic Party of Oregon "victory
party" in Portland, which swung from a hesitantly celebratory atmosphere to
something more resembling a funeral gathering as national results came in.
Educational.

First, and most importantly, I have no idea who my countrymen are. Living in
the Pacific Northwest, I've been blissfully isolated from the whims of white
America, the flyover states, completely out of touch with the true Zeitgeist
of America. Millions upon millions of people who felt let down by the
Democratic president and the institutions he represented, so disappointed they
were willing to vote for the possibility of complete destruction over more of
the same-old. Now they'll get some changes, no question. I lost track of how
the rest of the country rolls, full of boredom, violence, alcohol and
evangelism, and didn't see this coming at all. I misunderstood, and my
extreme disappointment is partly due to my overinflated confidence. This
result is a complete vindication of everything Michael Moore was saying about
the election.

Second, I will never again trust pre-election polls to tell me what my fellow
Americans will choose to do. There is far too much bias and uncertainty
involved in generating the "likely voter" models they use to adjust raw
results. This much is inarguable: Nate Silver's model preserved a high degree
of uncertainty, much moreso than many in the forums were comfortable with, but
his approach has also been thoroughly vindicated. I spent far too much time
browsing his site, looking for confirmation of my own mistaken opinions, when
my co-worker nailed the result by trusting his gut: "Donald Trump will be the
next president." No need for polls if your gut is truly aligned to the spirit
of the people.

Third, the news media helped to create this monster, and we support this
process by continuing to let them sell our eyes and ears to their corporate
sponsors. The fourth estate is now, by and large, quite useless as a safeguard
of democracy, and deserve no attention from anyone. Even a quick perusal of
the news from months ago should have been indicator enough of this outcome;
Trump rallies received excellent coverage, even when they got nasty and violent,
whereas the only topic Hillary got prime coverage for was email scandals,
adding to the common perception of her corruption.

Fourth, the old ways are gone. As has been said more eloquently by others,
Hillary ran a "textbook campaign" against a complete outsider and got rolled
hard. The textbook is useless. Tear it up and start over, and put the
chapter about having a clear populist message near the front this time.

Fifth, we now have proof that racism, sexism, and bullying behavior are not
turnoffs to Americans compared to social justice advocacy, perceived taint
of scandal, and identity politics messaging. Faced with a known bully and
con-artist or an apparently corrupt insider, Americans chose the bully.
That's the bottom-line truth of our current situation. We need to get rid of
any educational materials that suggest bullying those weaker leads to
failure; such materials are dangerously misleading to children and they will
see through such falsehood every day Donald Trump is in office. By promoting
inclusion and common decency as social norms, we appear deceptive to the
perceptive young while alienating the bigoted old.

I will make no grand statements about the future of this country, and will do
my best not to respond with outrage to events before they happen. Meanwhile,
there are people who are and will continue to be hurt greatly by the coming
chaos; as one of the fortunate Oregonians who will be shielded from the worst
of it for a few years, I'll do what I can to help those who are hurting. That
is what I lost track of before, I must not lose it again.

[Fast Walker 52]

77. all good points

[bettyellen]

66. Free press all day long and not being called on your shit is doable - if you're a rich man.

So if the press exists in its current form, we need a filthy rich guy who acts like he sweats nothing. But deep inside we know he's a really intelligent and thoughtful empathetic guy- but we can't tell anyone. E side people will think he's a schmuck for being those things.
Sanders vs Trump would have been a battle for the soul of the angry white man- glad I missed that shit show.

[Ken Burch]

67. Bernie would have been just as antibigotry as Hillary in the fall. He always had been.

I know you don't like the guy, but he was never ran a whites-only campaign, he never told anyone not to speak out against racism, and he would not have left POC out in the cold.

We'd have had the exact same result in the fall if Bernie hadn't run. There was no one who didn't vote Democratic who would have if only the primaries had been a debate-free zone.

[bettyellen]

68. I liked him a lot, but not his campaign which I though as 2/3 of Dems did was weak an initially

Exclusionary. And the anti-bigotry is part of the east
Coast liberal elite crap those voters dislike about Dems.
They don't like it if someone works hard or follows social conventions of decency - they like that Trump is a jerk who doesn't bow down to women and black people. They'd paint Sanders as a giant "cuck" and there'd be twice as many swastikas. And then- the pundits would blame it on his tax proposals.

[Ken Burch]

69. Excuse me, but none of us dislike people for working hard or following social conventions.

It's more like wanting work to have creativity and meaning for everybody, to want life not to be solely about your job and nothing else, and seeing freedom as meaning the right to be different, to NOT conform.

(Not sure what you're referring to as "social conventions" there...would you clarify that a bit?)

And there's no one we could ever nominate that could both make a show of dissing women, POC, LGBTQ folks or Muslims and still be progressive on anything important. We're past the time when a "Sistah Souljah" moment could do us any good.

The only votes we can ever pick up from here are people who want a clean break from whatever it is Trump will do. There's no way to create a Democratic version of Trump.

[bettyellen]

70. I'm referring to the rust belt Trump voters- just read and article that summarized their attitudes

It explained the resentment and distain for east coast and local professionals and intellectuals. Theirs not a lot of aspiring to work hard among those bastards. they want to be born on third base and come into easy money like Trump did. They don't respect people who actually want to live lives of service or earn money providing valuable services like teaching, lawyers, and other "authorities" who tell them "what to do". I guess they think they're all
"Mavericks".
I will try to find a link. The article was based on studies or surveys cited in a few well known books.

But am falling asleep. Tommorrow.

[Ken Burch]

72. Thank you for clarifying that.

n/t.

[bettyellen]

109. Still haven't found the article - but that part was the only bit that seemed new or interesting....

And went beyond the coast versus heartland stereotypes and hit on why a NYC heir could, in their eyes, seem more "authentic". And it's because he didn't have to conform in any way or become part of an "establishment". I don't know what sort of community you grew up in, but in poor ones like the Bronx there can be a lot of resentment when someone goes off to college, maybe another neighborhood and career that leaves others feeling "you think your better than us". I know it was that way for me and a lot of my dear friends. So, they don't feel like Trump abandoned his roots, like I did.

The other interesting thing is just the resentment of the professional class- that being paid well to instruct or advise people in your community can cause resentment - and I guess we've all seen that knuckleheaded attitude with teachers long enough for it to ring true.

Still hope to find it- one of the books it named sounded really interesting and I lost it.

[Nay]

94. I refer to them as the "Scots-Irish nobody gonna tell me what to do" contingent. They

are all over this country, acting like mavericks as they cash their welfare and disability checks.

[LeftishBrit]

75. That it's even more important than ever to stop Brexit...

That's the lesson I take for my own country.

As regards the USA, that there is something badly flawed in the electoral college system. Gore/Bush was not just a 'Millennium bug' occurring once in a blue moon. 2 out of 5, 40%, of 21st century elections resulted in the 'victory' of the person who LOST the popular vote. To an outsider, this is crazy! Unless it's fixed, you might as well just toss a coin: it would be cheaper, simpler, less divisive, and almost as representative of the people's will.

[metroins]

80. Free stuff

You cannot win without campaigning on free stuff.

Whether it will actually go through or not, you need to campaign that you'll lower taxes, bring jobs, save people money and help them out....all without adding to the deficit.

You also cannot ignore, the majority of Americans do not like illegal immigration. It's just a fact. People don't mind immigration reform, but they do not like the law being broke. There are not enough college kids and minorities voting to offset Trumps empty promises and his immigration stance.

Hillary was a GREAT candidate.

She campaigned on pragmatic ideas that would pass. She showed the true budget of everything she wanted and Hillary was so qualified for the job, I've never seen anything like it.

However, she didn't lie enough to the public...

You could tell she bombed the rural vote when she told the coal industry they were going to lose jobs. If she had campaigned on bringing jobs back and made more empty promises, this would be different.

I do however blame Comey. The 11 days changed everything and was out of her control.

[treestar]

82. The Electoral College is bullshit and should be repealed

at least, efforts made for a constitutional amendment. Should have been done long before.

The media will always favor the Republican. Candidate must be squeaky clean and it does not matter how foul the Republican is - the media will do all it can for him.

The candidate needs no experience. Rs should be ashamed of themselves for arguing that about Obama.

The polls don't work so don't rely on them and ignore them. Ignore Nate Silver, etc. completely end his career on this subject.

There is a lot more racism, misogyny, xenophobia out there than we think.

[jmg257]

90. Don't underestimate anger. Don't underestimate hate. Don't underestimate fear,

Last edited Thu Nov 17, 2016, 12:14 PM - Edit history (1)

And don't try to dehumanize 50% of the country.
Or the people they might support.

You don't have to understand it. You don't have to like it.
But you should be aware of it and take it seriously.

These peoples' votes count just as much as ours.
To discount them 'just because' is foolish.

[hrmjustin]

95. Losing sucks!

Don't trust data and polls. Listen to the locals on the ground.

Don't reflexively go for the most progressive or the most electable candidate. Give it some thought.

Don't look to expand the map at the expense of your firewall.

The media is not liberal or conservative, it is ratings and money.

The primaries were ugly but we have to refrain from destroying our allies because a divided party doesn't win.

That this loss hurts just as much as 2000. I am still bitter about 2000 and I will be bitter about 2016 for the rest of my life.

Resist Trump!📎

[hamsterjill]

97. That sexism is alive and well in 2016.

n/t

[cynatnite]

100. That the electoral college is antiquated fuckery and needs to be reformed. n/t

[logosoco]

101. My main take, aside from

actual election/campaign process is that people are very forgetful! It was less than a decade ago that we had an unintelligent rich white guy for president and it really did not serve our country well. So I have no idea how we are here AGAIN!

Also, people have really put the environment in the back seat... both dems and repubs. This is not good. It won't matter how we play the game at all when the field is ruined.

I do think tRump had a better turn out (in states that mattered with the EC) because he kept talking about jobs. The problem with any politician doing that is the government does not create jobs, unless we have a new deal like FDR. People fell for that.

point 5 there is a biggie! I get so annoyed by candidates asking me for money. I have a vote and you have to earn it. I do not have a job myself and I would not feel okay asking others for money so I can get a job! Don't ask me for money...EARN my vote!

[masmdu]

102. 1) It should have been Bernie 2)Thanks DNC

[mainer]

103. never underestimate the racism of americans

never estimate their stupidity, either.

[CrispyQ]

108. That the media has way to much fucking power & their agenda is profit based.

"It may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS." Leslie Moonves, CBS executive chairman and CEO

Publicly funded elections now. Like that's ever going to happen.

[DirkGently]

110. Neoliberalism is dead.

1. Progressives are not the problem. Progressivism stands for change, which wins Presidential elections.

2. Taking a position that we need some reform, but not too much reform, is not a viable message. Don't tell people that the minimum wage needs to go up some, but not too much, or that education should be more available, but not universally available. Even if it's "pragmatic," "hold on to your horses," is not a campaign plank.

3. Power brokers in New York and D.C. and on television do not know what the hell they're talking about. Don't let them tell you what's "inevitable." They do not understand the word.

4. Identity politics is not a game we want to play. An insensitive white man is not going to lose just because he's an insensitive white man, and black and Latino voters won't be giving the Dems a permanent majority anytime soon.

5. Wall Street sucks. Back them at your peril. Claiming to support reform while taking their checks will not work.

6. People want aspirational promises, which are not "pipe dreams" or "fairy tales," even if they are not immediately viable. Aim high, not for "the center." Stop telling people what they can't have and shouldn't hope for.

7. Health care is still a mess, and the ACA hasn't fixed it. We need a public option, because without it prices go up regardless of other reforms.

8. Don't write off everyone who disagrees with you as a racist or a sexist. It insults far more people than it actually applies to and makes you look smug.

9. Throw the Blue Dogs out. The Democratic Party didn't make its bones promising big business everything it wants, and saying nice things about reform while broadly winking at Wall Street and fracking interests and insane corporate treaties like the TPP. Find a way to live without their money. If anything lost this election, it was the supposed indomitable power of corporate approval.

10. No more Clintons. I don't want to hear that Chelsea is running for Congress or that Hillary has one more election in her. Whoever's fault it is, America has had all the Clintons it needs for the foreseeable future. And yes, I voted for her too, thank you very much.

11. Social democracy is a real thing that is not "communism" and has been embraced by the rest of the functioning Western democracies. It is not "impossible" in America, unless we make it so.

[Warren DeMontague]

112. that insulting people and calling them names is not an effective way to get them to vote for you?

[AgadorSparticus]

116. 1/2 of the country are racist, sexist assholes. They are horrible.

HALF!!! I am still wrapping my head around that....