Clinton lost because she's an insider

[marylandblue]

Last edited Tue Nov 15, 2016, 11:23 PM - Edit history (1)

Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. It's an enduring myth in American politics, we always want outsiders to come in and fix things. Five of the last six presidents have been Washington outsiders when they ran for their first term. The only except was Bush Sr. Obama was a Senator, but he was barely two years into his first term when he announced his candidacy. I think he realized that his best shot was before he got tainted as just another Washington politician. Now in this election, we had the ultimate outsider vs. the ultimate insider. This dynamic worked against Clinton when Trump kept asking, "You've been there for 30 years, why haven't you fixed everything?" Of course it's a stupid question, but Clinton didn't have a good answer.

I edited this post to remove the comment about Bernie, because he isn't really the point. It's about insider vs. outsider.

[apcalc]

1. And misogynist men couldn't see a woman leading imo.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

3. No doubt that played a role.

[msongs]

2. because of voter suppression in states with repub governors and legislatures nt

[bettyellen]

4. And you suggest a man who never had a regular paycheck until he won an election would fare better.

A career politician. LOL. I wish they'd release the oppo research. I'm sure his asinine support of no restrictions whatsoever for abortion was in the top ten of issues you never had to even think about.

[emulatorloo]

8. You'll find a summary of that oppo research in this Kurt Eichenwald article

THE MYTHS DEMOCRATS SWALLOWED THAT COST THEM THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION
BY KURT EICHENWALD ON 11/14/16

http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

On Edit: Oops, I see splat already posted an excerpt about the oppo reasearch in post #6 below.

But full article is very interesting if you get the chance.

[LostOne4Ever]

15. You mean the same position Hillary had on Abortion and was easily deflected?

http://www.snopes.com/boycott36-clinton-sanders-late-term-abortion/

[bettyellen]

16. She supports restrictions in the last months barring health issues for the mother.... he put up "no

Restrictions" on his website. My jaw dropped at the ignorance.

[LostOne4Ever]

20. You can't have an abortion in the last month-that is an induced birth at that point

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]This is the same counter that was used against Trump and his idiotic debate statements against Clinton.

Once past viability there is no reason to just birth the child. [/font]

[bettyellen]

22. He supported "no restrictions" whatsoever, so how do you think that would play?

Both Naral and Planned Parenthood are not that radical- they know people would shut them down. Sorry, he fucked up. He should have had a sane policy proposal, but apparently could not be bothered- maybe because he'd have to discuss it with "establishment" types?

He lost me with that bit of idiocy.

[LostOne4Ever]

25. Just like it played for Hillary-explaining that it is logically impossible to have an abortion like

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]that.

That is why PP doesn't have a policy like that-it is made up piece of Right Wing Propaganda.

There is no reason to have restrictions for that because there are NO abortions at that point. IT IS NOT A THING!

And again, they used that against Hillary and it was LAUGHED at.[/font]

[LostOne4Ever]

30. Lies you say?

http://www.snopes.com/boycott36-clinton-sanders-late-term-abortion/

[bettyellen]

32. That's got nothing to do with the idiocy on his website.

[LostOne4Ever]

34. It got everything to do with it. Cause what you are talking about isn't real. nt

[bettyellen]

35. He said "no restrictions" on his site.

[LostOne4Ever]

36. On something that doesn't exist.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]Criticizing him on that is like criticize him on his lack of restrictions on racing invisible pink unicorns.[/font]

[TrekLuver]

5. People hated Hillary Clinton. I met many people from all walks of life that didn't like Trump but

they hated Hillary Clinton for one reason or another. Often the reason was a lie or an exaggeration but it shows how powerful misinformation and years of repeating lies can really take a toll. Even though a lot of people hated her and she did have plenty to zing her on...she still almost won...she just lost by a slim margin in a few keys states. So I have no doubt that the next candidate will be wildly successful. This Trump shit show that we are already witnessing will further solidify this.

[splat]

6. No. Bernie would not have won

From Kurt Eichenwald at Newsweek:

So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. ...

...Worst of all, the Republicans also had video of Sanders at a 1985 rally thrown by the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua where half a million people chanted, “Here, there, everywhere/the Yankee will die,’’ while President Daniel Ortega condemned “state terrorism” by America. Sanders said, on camera, supporting the Sandinistas was “patriotic.”

The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don’t know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.

[link:http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044|

[LostOne4Ever]

18. You mean the Party that removed Somoza dictatorship? Good.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]And lets not forget Trumps links to Putin TODAY that no-one cared about.

He would have been running on the same message of Change and bringing our manufacturing Jobs back that appealed to independents and that Trump used to win...and without the Stigma of being a Sexual Predator with 11 women accusing him.

He would have Kept Penn, Mich, and Wiscosn easily while winning all the states Clinton did. In other words...he would have had over 270 EC votes and be president elect today.[/font]

[bettyellen]

23. He'd have lied to the coal miners?

[LostOne4Ever]

26. No, he would have stopped the bad trade deals & installed policies to keep jobs here.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]Telling the miners she would get rid of their jobs really helped get Hillary votes didn't it?[/font]

[bettyellen]

27. what a clear promise of nada that is. They woulda loved that.

[LostOne4Ever]

28. Worked infinitely better than Hillary's message of getting rid of their jobs.

[bettyellen]

31. There were a lot of factors- only BOBs are still crowing about the TOO.

[LostOne4Ever]

33. I am living proof of you being wrong. I wasn't and am not a BoB.

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]But trying to make accusations like that are part of the reason Hillary lost.

Anyone who opposed Hillary received some sort of smear. Ultimately it shamed moderates who were thinking voting Trump into going underground and we had no clue how much support that asshole had in the mid-west!

Now thanks to our Hubris and that tactic of smearing everyone we have LOST EVERYTHING!!! Everything is going to be turned to dust with a conservative supreme court now! Everything I care about is going to be turned to naught because the DNC pushed a tired dynasty insiders insiders with a mountain of baggage on us.

And when Trans rights were supposed to come up before SCotUS too! Its all gone.

I alienated friends defending her, I spent more money on her Campaign than Bernies and voted early for her. Now it is all going to be destroyed because she convinced our party it was her turn! Its nobodies turn, it is the people's choice!!!

If I never hear the name Hillary Clinton again, that would be the ONLY good thing to come out of her candidacy![/font]

[Thinkingabout]

7. Sanders would not have won, he would have been attacked on his positions, Sanders has been

in Congress for a long time, don't forget this time makes him an insider also. Sanders tried to make us believe he was an outsider, how? Hillary was a Senator for 8 years, was SOS for 4 years, judging by this Sanders is more of an insider than Hillary. His positions on socialism would probably be enough to prevent his election.

[LenaBaby61]

19. I know Bernie is a good and stand up guy ....

And I'm not in any way diminishing the fact that Bernie would have been a far superior president than tRump, and I'd have been proud to vote for him also. But people don't realize that Bernie would have been savaged by tRump & company as well.

Allegedly, Bannon was set to demonize him for being Jewish, and that he was aligned to Jewish bankers (Even though we both know Bernie was for regulating banks and for breaking up the monopoly they have on the banking industry) being the racist, NAZI scum Bannon is, he knows that there are enough people out there like him who still hate and despise Jewish people. Also read that Bannon was going to try to turn Bernie into the ultimate insider by saying that he was part of the DC establishment because he was a US Representative from VT for a "Very long time." Worse than those things, and the "Commie and Socialist" honeymooning in Russia crap, he was planning on turning Bernie into a pedophile by running ads and talking incessantly about the 1972 essay he wrote and focus specifically on how Bernie voted against federally criminalizing Internet child porn. Can you imagine those ads running for MONTHS and imagine tRump also talking about that with the 2 Billion dollars worth of FREE air time the so-called but non-existent liberal media gave him?

tRump would have worn that vote about the Internet porn vote situation out by talking about it incessantly like he kept on with the Crooked Hillary crap because the crooked, self-described assaulting p***y-grabber LOVES projecting.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

9. Yes I know she's an insider

But Drumpf is a self promoting phony.

I've known who the guy is for nearly thirty years. I read his book "Art of the Deal". He sounded like an okay guy.

It was when he declared bankruptcy on his Atlantic City casinos I started to take notice. In the casino business the game is always rigged in favor of the house. It takes a lot of incompetence to fail at a rigged game.

Then I compared him to wealthy people in my state like Bill Gates, Paul Allen, Steve Ballmer, Jeff Bezos and the McCaw family. Whether one likes them or not they built companies and created jobs. Trump ripped off a lot of people building his business.

The more I learned about Trump the less I liked him. The whole birther nonsense was the final straw.

This asshole is in over his head and his advisors are only in for themselves.

His fall will be big. Unfortunately many will be hurt when it happens.

[LenaBaby61]

10. The fallacy that ....

tRump isn't a Washington insider...

Is preposterous.

Unfortunately, no one ever went after that Orange Putin-loving blob. But those who voted for him are in for a RUDE awakening. Thinking he will stick it to "The Man" in Washington when HE's one himself. He's no friend of the little/working man/woman, because if he was he'd have not said that $7.25 for a Federal Minimum wage was too high and that maybe we don't NEED a Federal minimum wage. The man's a pig who stiffs workers for work they've done for him. He hired undocumented workers from Poland IIRC to build his magnificent towers decades ago, and was fined for doing so. The man is such an "outsider," that he buys steel from China which gives Chinese workers jobs but how does that help the steel workers in the USA. Many steel workers voted for tRump and happy he won, thinking that he'll bring jobs back to the USA. Again, are they in for a RUDE awakening.

Finally, that ass stood on a stage and said in front of the world and bragged that he didn't pay taxes at all--used a loophole so he wouldn't have to. Hell, the guy didn't ever release his taxes. In fact, it's rumored that he hasn't paid taxes in 20 years, yet the little guy who voted for him. Hillary did try to tell people that tRump is no outsider, but an insider. Could she have drilled down on this message 24/7, yes she could have. And, she's done a lot of good as a US Senator but I guess that didn't matter to these risk it and vote for tRump voters. In fact the more I've read, and from all the data I've seen, people who voted for tRump it "appears" that these people--men and women--whomever--wanted BIG change, no matter how much risk or uncertainty a tRump presidency may bring. They'll be suffering badly with that horrible choice they made, however so will those of us who didn't vote for tRump. I didn't even mention what Paul Ryan will try his BEST to do TO Social Security and Medicare. tRump's out there for himself, and to add to his con-man persona that he once was the president of the United States of American. Too bad those who voted for him weren't alert enough to know this. He's not going to make American Great Again, He's going to bring America down to it's KNEES Again.

That racist, misogynistic, sexual-assaulting Putin-loving ignorant fool is going to really destroy this country the short time he's in there (I don't think he'll last 8 years--only 4).

No matter what, he'll NEVER be my president. And by the way, if you don't think tRump would have said that Bernie too was a Washington insider because he's been in Washington, I got this bridge I'd like you to look at ...

[duffyduff]

11. Oh, baloney.

It was the media that caused this mess, not Hillary Clinton.

I wish people would understand what really happened here.

Furthermore, everybody else who ever was elected president or ran on a major party ticket had political experience or high-ranking military experience (the last of the latter was Ike and he was the only one in the 20th century). Trump was literally a JOKE candidate with NO experience whatsoever in government. Google "Pat Paulsen," and you have Donald Trump.

Hell, even Cal Thomas over a year ago was likening Donald Trump to the fictional Lonesome Rhodes of A Face in the Crowd.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/sep/14/cal-thomas-donald-trump-is-lonesome-rhodes/

It DIDN'T become a joke when Jeff Zucker's Frankenstein gained a massive cult following of racists, misogynists, xenophobes, and all the rest.

Zucker didn't give a shit the country would be damaged or even ruined; all this sociopathic shitbag cared about was the bottom line.

[Bucky]

12. She didn't lose !!!

stop legitimizing Trump's fluke election. Trump didn't win by the will of the people.

[LostOne4Ever]

13. Bingo!!! nt

[pstokely]

14. hated candidates probably contributed to overall low turnout

"Fuck them, they're all crooks, I'm staying home" is what they thought

[Hekate]

17. Hillary WON by a million votes and counting. The Electoral College has to go.

Please, Democrats, don't let people tell you she lost.

[LenaBaby61]

21. Hillary WON by a million votes and counting. The Electoral College has to go.

From all of the information put out there by reputable people, I'm not so sure Hillary lost Wisconsin, because I'm reading about how there was a TON of voter suppression going on in that one state alone to have cost her the election.

Yes, I know it's over now and that man will be those folks president who voted for him. However, with a tRump justice department on the job, how do we KNOW they won't try to suppress Democratic voters in 2 years and especially in 4 years? I put nothing past that vile tRump administration. Do you think they'll investigate instances of voter fraud/intimidation as it relates to Democrats? Even is they do say they're investigation alleged voting rights abuse/violation, what's to stop them from dragging their feet so they won't have to investigate it?

Democrats better start doing something about voting rights etc. well before 2018, and not get caught with their guard down if possible.

[KittyWampus]

24. And yet those who voted Trump voted to keep Republicans in Congress

Insider/Outsider is total bullsh*t.

[still_one]

38. Isn't that the truth. That is why that narrative as you just pointed out is pure bullshit

Last edited Wed Nov 16, 2016, 03:41 AM - Edit history (1)

thank you

[still_one]

37. Really? I guess it had nothing to do with 11 days before the election, the FBI and

Comey personally interfered with the election by sending a letter to the republicans in Congress implying that the email investigation was being reopened. It was a BLATANT LIE. MSNBC was the first network to present the false narrative, followed by a parade of right wing republicans reiterating the BIG LIE. Other networks soon followed, and it took days before things started to quiesce, at which time bret baier from fox started a new false narrative that an indictment was getting ready against Hillary regarding the Clinton Foundation. Two days later bret baier, with crocodile tears said he misspoke, and there was no validity that an indictment was pending, but the damage was done. Fox itself continued to spew that lie, and the trump campaign followed suit.

Mission accomplished.

Hillary lost because of independent forces conjuring up the big lie. It was the republicans, the media, and FBI, all feeding off each other

If you're looking for scape goats, this isn't rocket science

Looks like Russ Feingold lost against the insider. Gee, every swing state Democratic Senate race lost against the establishment incumbent.

While the MSM did their part with the false narrative, we can't forget the social media where up to 45% get their news from that medium:

"Facebook folded to conservatives: The social media giant didn’t block fake news because it would have stopped conservative memes "

www.salon.com/2016/11/14/facebook-folded-to-conservatives-the-social-media-giant-didnt-block-fake-news-because-it-would-have-stopped-conservative-memes/

and of course there was those supposed "liberals" who voted third party, or refused to vote for Hillary. I believe Kurt Eichenwald summarized it perfectly:

Kurt Eichenwald, the Newsweek reporter who worked tirelessly to warn voters against Donald Trump, is furious at everyone who cast third-party votes in protest of their choices.

“Elections are not a game. They are not an exercise in narcissism,” Eichenwald said in a Facebook post. “They are serious business about who you want to have lead the country. Everyone knew, that was going to be Trump or Clinton. If, somehow, you didn’t see the difference between them, you are a fool.”

www.rawstory.com/2016/11/kurt-eichenwald-blames-petulant-protest-voters-for-trump-win-i-hope-you-bathe-in-your-shame/

So I would like to thank the FBI, the MSM, those that voted third party, or the 47% of the eligible voters who didn't think it was worth their while to vote.

and as far as the OPs edit regarding someone they said wasn't viewed as an insider, I guess that non-insider didn't help Russ Feingold very much, or proposition 61, or any of the other issues that that person campaigned for. Obviously, that non-insider didn't have the influence many thought

Oh, one small tiny detail, Hillary is ahead in the popular vote by two million votes, and they are still being counted

[beaglelover]

39. Clinton lost.....

Because of the antiquated electoral college system.

[Kaleva]

40. People around where I live said they wanted change

That was pretty much the common denominator of those who said they were voting for Trump.

[still_one]

41. Trump won by .3%. The assholes who voted for Stein effectively voted trump by

their actions.

I also guess that word didn't get through in the House races in Michigan. There were 10 house races up for election in Michigan. 8 were won by republicans, with all of them being incumbents except for 2.

Also the dirty little secret about Michigan is the racism that exists there, and it was definitely a factor