Do you think an Alt Left exists?

[boston bean]

After this election, I do think one exists.

I should probably explain. How in the world could persons on the left ever vote for Trump in the face of the racism/sexism/misogyny/homophobie/xenophobia?

In my mind it is the case that only someone who was ok with some of what trump was peddling could vote for him.

Why in the world do we think these persons would have ever voted for Hillary? We should put minorities and women on the back burner and act like Trump to get these votes?

Because you better rest assured that if these very "important" white voters think minorities are getting the same representation as them these white voters will rebel.

For real people open your eyes to this.

17 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes
	13 (76%)
	No
	3 (18%)
	Maybe
	0 (0%)
	Not Sure
	1 (6%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[frazzled]

1. I've been using that term for some months now /nt

[Ninga]

2. i voted no. If it's out there, it's mighty quiet. Where is the evidence it exists other than on the

Internet?

[BainsBane]

4. I've met a few of them

and the election results show they do exist.

[WhiteTara]

3. Absolutely. The BoBs are a prime example

of privileged whites who think they have the luxury of being politically pure.

[BainsBane]

5. This.

[otohara]

9. The Originators of "Lock Her Up"

damn straight.

[NurseJackie]

24. And the "rigged elections" mantra that Trump picked up and ran with.

Most of Trump's attacks on Hillary originated with the kooky and fringe-y left.

[otohara]

28. They Sure Did - Still Believe It

dumbasses think volunteers from each candidate somehow managed in all the chaos of thousands of voters to rip 3.4 million out right from under them.

I will not be intimidated into silence by Sanders people again.

[NurseJackie]

22. Thank you. (They deny it, but we know it's true.)

[workinclasszero]

50. This

[DinahMoeHum]

6. You mean, something like Weatherman SDS in the late 1960s?

Where they took over the regular SDS in 1969 and started their "Days of Rage" and bombings of offices?

BTW, the Black Panthers had no solidarity with them whatsoever.

[TheBlackAdder]

56. The Alt-Left would now be Democrats of the 1980's. Not the Kock-funded 3rd-Way Democrats of today.

[ismnotwasm]

7. Yup

And they've got new members--charming first time delagates who are now political experts, because hey they were a delagate that one time. Ones immersed in rhetoric, I'm mean soaked in it inhaling it, then repeating it, "it" being whatever these folks say it is. To them race and gender are side notes, not nearly as important as economics

[guillaumeb]

11. Turn your statement a little bit:

when you said:

To them race and gender are side notes, not nearly as important as economics

you are actually describing the Koch brothers and the various right wing billionaires who are funding and dominating the GOP. They use race and gender issues to divide workers so they can continue to set the economic agenda in this country.

[stevenleser]

61. There are too many problems with your attempt at an analogy to list. nt

[guillaumeb]

63. An interesting way of dismissing an argument without any actual rebuttal. eom

[Grey Lemercier]

8. "The left wing of the AltRight" .......Beatnik Fascism, here is a link

https://altleft.com/

[Wilms]

10. Not sure.

But there's an Alt-Denial faction.

[pipoman]

58. At least a couple I know of....

[Starry Messenger]

12. Ultra-left wreckers have always been with us.

They just haven't had this wide an opening before. They won't ever get with the program, their ideology prevents it. All you can do is isolate them and minimize the damage. I don't think American was ready. (To be very clear, I am only referring to a small group of people, not the broad left, or even most socialist-identified people. It's a certain type.)

[Cattledog]

13. The Alt-Right is racist so no there is Alt-Left.

[haele]

14. No. Alt- vs. Alt- is rather like using mortars against a tire fire.

Alt-right has a core constituency to coordinate itself around - a Faux Nativist masculine "Christianist" movement along the lines of John Birch/KKK. It builds enemies lists to attack and hold control over instead of working on policies to work within a wider environment with a diverse population.
While the alt-right will accept within its membership "enemies" who are self-loathing and accepting the hierarchal culture pushed by the core leadership as superior to the culture of their own heritage (i.e., ass-kissers), they're still focused on a very narrow world-view and would be perfectly happy if 3/4ths of the world just disappeared, as long as all the "cool stuff" remained behind.

Amongst the Left, while there are some who do lean to preferring to be a big fish in a small pond, there is no core constituency, and no overall narrow issue focus. Other than some generic Kumbaya urge to get together and work together for specific causes at specific junctures in time, everyone still pretty much has their own issues and motivators for identifying as liberal, progressive, or otherwise leftist.

Our problem on the left is that in general, we don't require a constant hierarchal leader to tell us what to do and how to react.
Look at it this way - the Right follows Infowars, Brightbart, the Weekly Standard, etc...with a slavish devotion. These sources never question themselves, everything is "truth" - and the reader is not supposed to think, but REACT the way that's best for the conservative organization.

Whereas the Left follows Mother Jones, Slate, Common Dreams, the Atlantic - a wide range of views and news sources, where some articles will actually contradict each other or take opposing sides to explore the complex background and considerations that create an issue or situation, to provide some consideration to take an action or perhaps address a change of course - or not.

The closest thing to Alt-Left are various small, scattered reactionary groups that are the remora on liberal or leftist causes. The "my way or Highway" types and limousine liberals with agendas.
If there is an Alt-Left, it is a collection of splinters comprised of people who insist on hijacking serious attempts to organize for an overall progressive effort by insisting pet causes be foremost in planning a movement instead of being a working piece within a movement such as BLM or Occupy that will be addressed along with all the other changes that need to be made for everyone to progress, not just a select few to feel good about themselves.

Neither political versions of an Alt-movement will accept the idea of "sacrifice" or "greater good" - unless it profits them personally above all others. Both are at the very least, borderline psychotic.

That's my two bits.

Haele

[closeupready]

15. I think people who say "alt" this or "alt" that spend too much time online.

It's a fake word that doesn't mean anything, and won't be used by educated people who are actually important people.

[boston bean]

17. Really? A word Bannon uses himself to describe his racist/sexist/homophobic/xenophobic readers and

Donald Trump supporters.

Wow... you want us all to be less informed. What a fucking hoot!

[TrekLuver]

38. It's a fake word that heads up a very real threat.

Oh yes only the educated are "important people"...please get off your high horse thanks.

[Warren DeMontague]

16. I like Alt Country.

[boston bean]

18. I really don't find it a laughing matter Warren. You might.. But please just go away if you don't

respect me or like anything I post. I really don't have the time for you when we got a racist pos entering the WH.

[Warren DeMontague]

19. it's not a laughing matter. It's actually a really depressing fucking song.

That's how I process shit like like recent events, through music. C'est La Vie.

You can always put me on ignore, you know.

[boston bean]

20. I may want to read what you write. i will not put you on ignore.

I ask that you stop making a joke to every post of mine. It comes off as condescending and I'm just not into it. Never was.

So, if you could stop with that. I would appreciate it.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. again, it wasn't a joke.

"alt left" isn't an actual thing, as far as I can tell.

edited to add; you should listen to Jay Farrar. "Sebastopol" is one of the best albums of the past 16 years, as far as I'm concerned. Got me through the Bush years, it did.

[boston bean]

29. You are always responding to me with a video or a graphic.

Can you use your words? I appreciate you using them this time.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. I am using my words. My words say, alt-left isn't an actual thing.

My words also say, if we're really trying to dig deep into what went wrong on Nov. 8, the sorts of prefabricated blame narratives against Bernie Sanders/Progressive Purists/"bros"/the folks at JPR or whatever.. they're just not going to hold water.

Geek Tragedy- as you must be aware, no friend to the BoB/Jill Stein crowd- had an excellent thread detailing some of the problems the Clinton Campaign had in rural counties which previously might have been more of a lock.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2612099

Personally, I think Hillary Clinton herself did a great job, as a candidate, at least from the Convention onward. But I think her campaign made some serious strategic mistakes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-campaign-neglect_us_582cacb0e4b058ce7aa8b861

I think it is ridiculous to try and lay this clusterfuck at the feet of imaginary boojums like the "alt left". We ought to follow the facts and the data. That's my wordy analysis, here.

As for "video or graphic", again, they're not all created equal. Usually, but not always, they bear some specific linear relationship to the conversation. Barstow is a great, albeit depressing, tune. I think visually and music helps me process.

I am who I am and it's way too late to be someone else. Again, C'est La Vie.

[boston bean]

31. And I thanked you for using words this time.

Also, you are making up a question and answering something that I didn't ask or say.

i wanted to know if you thought there were racists and homophobes and sexists and misogynists and xenophobes on the left.

The only answer to that is YES. I wasn't asking for a dissertation on whether you or I felt these people swayed an election.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. Classic.

"use your words" and "I wasn't asking for a dissertation"



Fine, here's another Jay Farrar song.

[boston bean]

33. Classic, still not even giving the respect to someone to discuss the actual topic.

You made up a question, answered it and then refuse to address the actual point of the OP. That is what is classic here.

I'm real use to it.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. when I discuss the 'actual topic', I get stuff like "TL;DR", heavy sigh heavy sigh

The "actual topic" as near as I could tell from your poll, is whether something called the "alt left" exists. I'd never heard anyone even use that term until I read this thread.

When you ask someone to express their opinion, by definition, it means you may not get the prepackaged answer you wanted.

Then you said to me, upthread, "do you think there are sexists/racists/etc on the left". For one, that's not the question in your OP, two, "the left" is an arbitrary and subjective designation, but if you're asking a question to which there can only be one answer, that's not really a discussion, is it?

I don't know what it is, or what purpose it serves. Maybe you do.

But if you want someone to only reply with a pre-approved response, talking to other humans may not be the way to go.

[boston bean]

36. I wouldn't necessarily call it approval... but agreement... No, I don't agree with your

characterization my post, and tbh, you still haven't addressed the OP.

So, I think that in itself tell me a lot, and I don't need an straight out answer. You know sometimes no answer is an answer.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. the Zen poet Basho said, a flute, with no holes, is not a flute.

See? Another graphic. I'm nothing if not predictable, eh?

Anyway, I'm not sure what you're getting at. But maybe that's because your sort-of-question in the OP which apparently only has one preapproved answer, is also sort of nonsensical. Are there "XYZ" on "the left"? Well, sure there are. There are 9 billion people on the planet, it's a statistical near-certainty that at least one of them meets the criteria for... whatever it is.

But I would argue (here we go with the dissertations, again) most Americans- most voters- don't identify as "left" OR "right". Most people aren't steeped in politics, as you and I are. I would wager that most of the people directly responsible for the election result- like, the rural voters I mentioned- don't list a left/right designation as a major part of their self-described identity. I suspect they feel not listened to by Washington and they are experiencing severe economic hardship, and (wrongly, to my mind) they think Trump and the GOP will help since they identify Obama and our party with the status quo.

Now, if your question is, would you take issue with a self-identified member of "the left" (or perhaps more specifically, a self-identified progressive) who acknowledged voting for Trump? Well, fuck yes I would. I don't know how one would reconcile those things.

[otohara]

48. Go Over to TYT

if you want to know what Alt-Left is.

They have millions more listeners/viewers than CNN - By the time the guy who runs the place came around to endorsing Hillary it was too late. The vitriol he spewed about Hillary stuck with his millions of anti-government haters.

[boston bean]

53. plus a million

[TrekLuver]

39. Maybe you should go take a look at that horrid JPR site and let me know what ya think.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. why?

I'm just not interested.

[TrekLuver]

41. I don't blame you but that convinced me that there is an "alt left" indeed....

[Warren DeMontague]

42. I think a lot of those people were never really Democrats to begin with.

Just my hunch. Same with the small percentage that votes Green every 4 years. Trying to convince them is a waste of time.

[TrekLuver]

43. It looks like there are a lot of ex-dem's over there and a lot of Bernie supporters...

They have a petition going about nominating Keith Ellison as the DNC chair...that sounds like they could be or could of been democrats...I do admit I haven't spent much time on that site but whatever they are or are not...I'm not very much interested in finding out. I understand if those folks are frustrated but to turncoat on your party like that and hate Hillary more than Trumpf or to say that she is worse than Trump....they lose any credibility in my eyes with that type of "thinking".

[Warren DeMontague]

44. real "Bernie Supporters" supported Hillary in the GE.

That's what Bernie did.

[TrekLuver]

46. I don't know what the hell they are and that's the scary part !!! n/t

[OrwellwasRight]

51. 1

Hmmm... I guess we can't post +1 anymore...

[Separation]

59. 1

Seems you are correct!

[DemocraticWing]

21. It looks like we're in alt-reality here. Leftists for Trump? LOL.

Keep making this stuff up, it's better comedy than anything on television now.

[boston bean]

23. You don't think there were leftists for Trump? They are proud of it. You need to get out more.

[DemocraticWing]

26. I'm in a number of socialist organizations and don't know a single member that voted Trump.

I know a handful who voted Stein or stayed home. The vast majority voted for Clinton. We didn't lose because of leftists, we lost because the vast majority of voters respond to things in much vaguer terms than ideology and we failed to sufficiently convince a majority of them to vote for us.

[forjusticethunders]

34. About 24% of Trump's white voters wanted *more* liberal policies than Obama.

Put that in perspective.

[TwilightZone]

54. "failed to...convince a majority"

Hillary won the popular vote, aka a majority.

As for your acquaintances, the plural of anecdote is not data.

[DemocraticWing]

60. A plurality is not a majority.

I haven't conducted a scientific poll of the Left but I would invite you to and find out how many voted for Trump or preferred him. Since most of us are terrified, crying, out in the street actually trying to resist the fucking guy, y'all can just buzz off with this "leftists love Trump" nonsense.

The people here hate socialists more than you hate the terrifying actual Nazis on the other side.

[Else You Are Mad]

27. Then...

They are not truly left and probably were once moderate Republicans with left leaning social beliefs. Remember, there was a mad dash of moderate Republicans to the Democratic party after the Bush years and the rise of the Tea Party in 2008.

[otohara]

49. TYT Leftists For Trump Too?

the vitriolic hate they spewed towards Hillary was effing hysterical.

[theglammistress]

45. Yes.

Bernie Bros.

Looking for the perfectly pure progressive candidate to ride up unicorn mountain. They are still screaming about how everything was rigged against Bernie and contributing to the distraction of the Democratic party.

1 - Bernie isn't a Democrat and said today he will not join the party
2 - It's been over a week since the election. It's time to start getting down to business and get over the finger pointing. There isn't a whole lot of time and the Democrats (us) not only have to figure out a way to battle back against Trump and the GOP house and Senate but also plan for a new head of the party AND plan a strategy to make some gains in 2018.
3- The Democrats (us) need to regret the knee-jerk reaction to overcompensate and throw all our values out the window to placate "white working class voters." That's the media narrative and I already see plenty of high profile Dems buying in to it. Yes, we're the party of the working class but we're also the party of women's rights, minority rights and UNDERSTANDING. I've even seen posts on here saying we should tread lightly on issues for trans people and feminists issues, etc. I can't abide by that.

The days go by and I just get more pissed.

[KittyWampus]

47. I voted "Yes". The Bernie or Busters. The ones who said the election was "rigged"

Not everyone at JPR are trolls and Trump supporters. Some are the Far Left ideologues insisting on purity while not holding Sanders to the same standards.

And they had their part to play in this current debacle. As did Bernie Sanders himself.

[JonLP24]

55. Alt right is just another name for far right or

White supremacist.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

57. After reading JPR today I'd say absolutely

I mean there was quite a bit of pro Putin, pro rapist Julian Assange plus George Soros is part of a Zionist cabal posted there.

How large they are and whether they affected the outcome of the election I'm not certain.

[Quayblue]

62. I think they're the same as Alt Right

I personally find them indistinguishable. Horseshoe theory indeed.