2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWe are doomed
As long as the "Hillary lost because of racism, misogyny, xenophobia, an Islamophobia" becomes the new theme at DU.
There is do doubt that the 61 million people in this country are either racist, xenophobic, misogynist, Islamophobic, or a combination of all four. If you cast your vote for Donald Trump you are either these or stupid beyond all belief.
(Aside here, if anyone among are midst cast such a vote, you deserve everything that happens to you. I couldn't care less. I am a black man who has spent his entire life fighting for the most vulnerable of people of color and they are going to be imprisoned, executed, disenfranchised and shot down in the street under Trump.)
The fact is, however, that Trump received approximately the same number of votes (possibly even fewer votes) than Mitt Romney. There was no groundswell of FIRCs flocking to the polls carrying Trump to victory.
Instead, there was Hillary Clinton drawing the least number of Democratic voters of any Democratic nominee in over two decades. Think about this. Hillary Clinton drew fewer voters to the polls than a black man with a Muslim name who said he was going to provide a path to citizenship to 10 million undocumented workers. It's worse than that, however.
In Leon County, Florida (where I was in 1999-2000, trying in vain to get the Party to get behind our dramatically underfunded efforts to restore the constitutional right to vote of tens of thousands of convicted felons), for example, Hillary Clinton drew 4% fewer black voters to the polls (even with the help of the most inspirational and transformational president in history) than JOHN KERRY. That kind of failure was repeated all over the country. While we stood behind her, as we always have percentage wise, she offered so little that even many of us stayed home (and that's even with not just our President's help, but people like me out there working the streets for months).
As for white folks, again, a black man with a Muslim name, promising amnesty, running less than 10 years after 9/11, drew millions upon millions more white voters to the polls (and won hundreds, perhaps thousands, more predominantly white precincts) than Hillary Clinton.
Hillary and her campaign lost this election. Until we start to talk about how they lost it, we are doomed
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boston bean
(36,221 posts)Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)Not being flippant here, it's a serious question.
There was no dramatic increases/decreases in voter registration correlating to demographic differences. In other words, it's not like a bunch of white folks (and/or white guys) all of a sudden registered this year. Historically, it is same pool of people who make up likely voters year after year. In short, there is no evidence whatsoever that the pool of likely voters changed during this election.
I know Hillary supporters want to believe it's these dark forces that took Hillary down, but those dark forces were even darker when our President ran and they didn't take him down. They didn't take him down because he got good and decent people to come out to vote who didn't come out to vote for Hillary.
otohara
(24,135 posts)I saw many of these posted by my son's friends on Facebook.
They are uber white, uber liberal, uber privileged, uber hateful and easily influenced - when they said never, they meant it based on hundreds/thousands of bullshit memes tailored to hate her and it worked.
Try overcoming this type of hate is impossible. https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+memes&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS694US694&espv=2&biw=1530&bih=714&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMtpv6xrDQAhVV5WMKHQzRBjkQ_AUIBigB
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)For whitesplaining racism to me.
Of course Trump supporters are a pack of racists but Hillary lost because of who didn't vote, not who did.
otohara
(24,135 posts)Those memes have nothing to do with race BTW.
Was it the word dark?
with little or no light.
"it's too dark to see much"
synonyms: black, pitch-black, jet-black, inky; More
(of a color or object) not reflecting much light; approaching black in shade.
"dark green"
noun
the absence of light in a place.
"Carolyn was sitting in the dark"
synonyms: darkness, blackness, gloom, murkiness, shadow, shade; More
a dark color or shade, especially in a painting.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)"They are uber white, uber liberal, uber privileged, uber hateful and easily influenced " to pigeonhole non-apologists.
Next time you THINK you know where criticism of Hillary's campaign is originating . . . think again.
otohara
(24,135 posts)Here it is, do you see it?
I saw many of these posted by my son's friends on Facebook.
They are uber white, uber liberal, uber privileged, uber hateful and easily influenced - when they said never, they meant it based on hundreds/thousands of bullshit memes tailored to hate her and it worked.
Not lying they are all as described - except my son who isn't white.
Who are you to lecture me?
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)Want an answer to the last question, do you? None of us are lecturing, we're discussing.
If you really want to know my background, PM me. I don't post it except in group.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Inspires deep fear and hatred.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)because the answer to the next logical question is more destructive than helpful.
Suffice to say that the institution of American slavery and its ongoing pernicious effect is by far and away the greatest human rights violation in the history of the world.
pbmus
(12,422 posts)Murdering 20+ million for cultural reasons - Stalin
Those are just 2 that are worse than slavery.
As terrible as slavery is and was, it still is present today
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)If you want to start a new thread in an appropriate forum, we can talk about it.
LisaM
(27,803 posts)Last I saw, she had the third highest total of all time (and growing).
C Moon
(12,212 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 17, 2016, 05:53 PM - Edit history (1)
But we know how predictions went of late.
LisaM
(27,803 posts)I've been following it at a non-partisan site called Cooks.
C Moon
(12,212 posts)Pretty sad for the US.
still_one
(92,181 posts)That 11 days before the election Comey sent a letter the republicans in congress which they promptly lied and said the email investigation was being reopened, and that MSNBC took that lie and propagated out as breaking news, reiterating it through a whole parade of right wing politicians, made a difference
That every other MSM outlet filled suit with the same lie, made a difference
That fake news from facebok and google exploited the lie, made a difference
There are a lot of folks to thank for trump, especially those self identified progressives who refused to vote for Hillary. They have no standing to complain, because they created this situation
Hillary and her supporters worked their hearts out. I know, I was one of them
Let me conclude with this fact:
Hillary lost Michigan by .3%. Jill Stein received 1.1% of the vote. Similar situation in Wisconsin and other places
Thanks for nothing progressives who refused to vote for Hillary, you have made life extremely precarious for women, people of color, gays, and quite possibly may have put civil rights, women's rights, labor rights, and the environment back at least 50 years
C Moon
(12,212 posts)All the polls and predictions had me thinking she was going to win, so when she lost, I swore to myself that I will never trust another poll. That's more or less what I was saying.
still_one
(92,181 posts)C Moon
(12,212 posts)still_one
(92,181 posts)HassleCat
(6,409 posts)By our candidate and our party. We did several things to annoy may voters. You are absolutely correct. We lost for more reasons than the four so often cited.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Michigan to Romney's
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts).5% difference in Michigan 2.16 vs 2.26 million
1.1% difference in Florida 4.16 vs. 4.6 million
.08% difference in Pennsylvania 2.7 vs. 2.9 million
ZERO % difference in Wisconsin 1.4 million vs. 1.4 million
And your point?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Clinton was way below were Obama was. Either (a)lots of people stayed home for Clinton while a lot of new voters showed up for Trump, or (b) a big bunch of voters flipped from 2012 to 2016.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)As per the NYT, Trump received 2,912,941 votes in 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/pennsylvania
As per the NYT, Romney received 2,619,583 votes in 2012
http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/states/pennsylvania
That's a difference in turnout of about 300K votes which is 11% higher GOP turnout so I stand corrected
That's one state out of the 4 you listed
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)See also this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512612099
21 counties in upstate New York flipped from Obama to Trump. Despite similar turnout and similar results in the US Senate races in 2012 and 2016.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)But not enough to support the theory that it was a surge of scumbags that beat Hillary, not the good people who she left sitting at home on election day.
It is disappointing because Hillary could have easily won by not trying to mollify white suburbanites by not standing against specific examples of institutional racism (e.g., white folks get scared when you systemically attack law enforcement and the criminal justice system) -- which I know discouraged at least one black man (albeit not to the point of not voting), and by not spreading the message that the privileged white folks who are really blocking equality are the ones sitting in the board rooms of Goldman Sachs, not the (undeniable also privileged but almost completely powerless) white folks complaining about the price of health insurance -- which from turnout figured obviously discourage a bunch of otherwise democratic white voters into staying home.
Unfortunately, some geniuses convinced her that the .1% and the governmental institutions they control were off limits.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)here's one: not asking anyone in Wisconsin for their votes after the primary.
Literally--didn't show up in the state once. Trump did show up, multiple times.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)Who faced an equal, if not greater onslaught from deplorables
Again, It's Hillary and her campaign.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)But, our local parties in the outlying areas have really atrophied.
Last edited Thu Nov 17, 2016, 06:56 PM - Edit history (1)
There will be a large outcry to silence us but we must continue to speak out.
As a party, we must inspire people. Sooner rather than later.
BeyondGeography
(39,370 posts)The fatigue was and is real, not least because of their inability to stay out of trouble.
Cheryl Mills said Hillary should have passed on the 2016 nomination and she was right.
Comey only happened because Hillary created an opportunity for the Clinton scandal machine. A baggage-free candidate doesn't have a Comey problem.
There were things about Hillary that were and are great. She cleaned Trump's clock three times in the debates and her numbers went up every time. A few days later, they would drop again. The Clinton campaign called this the "juxtaposition" problem. Whenever people saw the two candidates together the choice was clear for most persuadable voters. When she was on her own speaking directly to voters, not so much. We had a candidate who was a heavy lift. The current President never had that problem.
It's tragic. Hillary was the obvious choice, but she lost and now we are fighting for our fucking lives because of it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)aptitude for policy issues, and think she would have been a very good president.
But, the real issue was that she kept on providing fresh grist for the mill. Not only the emails, but the Doug Band sleaze train that they took way too long to evict from the Clinton Foundation, and the really awful judgment in giving speeches to banks instead of reconnecting with WWC voters, who were always the biggest risk to leave the party after 8 years of Obama.
She fits the mold of a tragic hero, possessing many admirable traits but undone by the fatal flaw.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)She is a "tragic hero".
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)
"Build a really big wall" and "He's a Kenyan-born Muslim" and " 'gina" - that doesn't resonate with you?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Seems rather absurd for us to have taken all of those voters for granted to now writing them off as hopeless.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)But then, all I know is Democrats and Republicans.
The Democrats voted for Hillary.
The Republicans never voted for Obama.
It's like our football down here.
You don't support Auburn, and one day wake up and switch to Alabama. This is for life.
Omaha Steve
(99,609 posts)There was no Obama voters going Trump. This was D's that stayed home period, just as the OP states.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Each of the critical states Hillary lost had a variety of voter suppression efforts.
Our Democracy might not survive a close inspection of "the results." If we were to know what really happened.
We should fight like hell to fix what we think might have happened - we should fight like hell for Democracy!
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)EXACTLY
Raster
(20,998 posts)...that turned into a rallying cry, complete with t-shirts, hats, coffee mugs, etc.
And I too have great admiration for Hillary Clinton and her years of public service, and yes, her amazing brain. The woman rocks. And I do believe she would have made a damned good President. It still hurts.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)I think we can all agree it might have been better if she had told us, taken some time off.
But - it's Hillary. No breaks or compassion for her.
That basket is now half a freakin' country of irredeemable deplorables! 
alittlelark
(18,890 posts)
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Many, many factors fed into Hillary's defeat including her campaign's mistakes. But this doom and gloom is getting awfully tiring.
The far more important question is: How do we climb out of this hole and minimize the damage that Trump will do in the next four years? How do we survive the 2018 midterms?
Understanding the why's of Hillary's defeat is useful but only up to a point.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)"Hillary lost because of racism, misogyny, xenophobia, and Islamophobia."
And it got a whole lot worse after the rest of the country voted in "a black man with a Muslim name" - twice.
If you look at what happened in the rest of the country in the last 6 years of voting, you'll see this isn't just about Hillary at all.
Just watch our new president.
GoCubsGo
(32,080 posts)called our president a liar during his first State of the Union address. He just got re-elected for the umpteeth time. Hillary lost here for the same reasons you listed for Alabama. I live close enough to Georgia that I can see it from my front porch. (I get a lot of my media out of Augusta.) It's the same there, outside of Atlanta.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Besides Jimmy Carter, 40 years ago. Hillary lost because she's a Democrat.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)and what Johnson said after signing the Civil Rights Act?
It wasn't until after Obama's 2008 election that the Alabama state legislature went Republican for the first time since Reconstruction. Democrats down here aren't like Democrats anywhere else. The ones seeking office have to be social and fiscal conservatives and they fight Republicans on who is more conservative!
Yes, Hillary lost Alabama because she's a Democrat - and everything associated with Democrats.
Kablooie
(18,628 posts)They say.
There is an extreme hatred and fear of Hillary among the right wing.
I'm sure it stems from many factors, some from Bill's presidency, some from their financial dealings, and the email faux pas and a lot from invented scandals that seem to stick even though no evidence could be found.
Of course they also don't see Trump as the dangerous Demagogue that the rest of us do either.
The common refrain is, he has flaws but no one's perfect. (except Jesus, of course)
Laurian
(2,593 posts)vote for Trump. Demeaning and blaming Hillary gives them an excuse they think will absolve them from their responsibility for electing this idiot. I'm not buying it. Nobody with an ounce empathy or compassion could ignore his character flaws to justify voting for Trump.
lark
(23,097 posts)Yes, Hillary's Wall St. ties certainly didn't help, but neither do I believe that's why she lost. She lost because of the media lying for 30 years, she lost because of a collusion between the Repugs, FBI and Russia to put in the office of presidency one of the worst people in the world. Well that and very successful voter suppression. I still think the vote was hacked. There was a graph earlier today which certainly was at the least very suspicious in the results for only several swing states. FL, WI, PA and NC are 4 of them. We can do the usual and shoot ourselves in the foot and blame ourselves for what the rw is causing, but Bernie wouldn't have won either. We need Kamala Harris, young so doesn't have huge track record for media to smear, black so black folks will come out and vote, and progressive - will do major real good and isn't a corporatist like Hillary has been. Don't get me wrong, I think Hillary would have made a good president, but do think we can't win no matter what when foreign countries and FBI take affirmative steps to rig the election results.
Someone else was saying that Drumpf was claiming rigging just to get Dems to say no, so he could rig the vote then Dems would look funny if they complain.
The people that voted for him will get theirs, unfortunately us, the clear eyed folks who voted against the Nazi, will suffer as much if not more and we did the right thing. This is so fucked!!!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Be caught doing. Saw that in local elections once. A campaign manager deflected from horrible racist comments made by suddenly yelling out "what did you call me? A dirty wop?" No one had said anything at all to him, but he had used the word "kike" and what did the papers report? Racial epithets were "exchanged". It's an old school thing, insulates you from accusations by making it seem like you're just parroting their accusations. That shit works.
wysi
(1,512 posts)... she was winning the popular vote. And several key states she barely lost had severe voter suppression laws enacted in the past few years. So you clearly have no idea of what you are talking about.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Plus, like it or not, the electoral college weights an advantage toward less populated states.
wysi
(1,512 posts)... with an old friend in California, pointing out that it's not fair that his vote counts much less than someone in (say) Wyoming.
moonscape
(4,673 posts)the Electoral College it would mean candidates would only campaign in several of the states wtih highest population doesn't wash. Now they campaign mostly in a few swing states - why is that better than a few non-swing states with greater populations?
otohara
(24,135 posts)and has no interest in doing so either.
Running about crying about the sky falling is a demanding task. 
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)Explain how Hillary faced more racism etc. than Obama.
spin
(17,493 posts)Many people viewed Hillary as the establishment candidate. Jeb was also an establishment candidate and you would have thought he would win the Republican primary but he totally failed.
Bernie was another change candidate and he did surprisingly well in the Democratic primaries.
The problem is while it seems people voted for change they may find there is considerable wisdom in the supposedly three ancient Chinese proverbs.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)
LibraLiz1973
(8,197 posts)She didn't lose because she was a shitty candidate. There's a reason many of us are saying she lost because of "racism, misogyny, xenophobia, an Islamophobia."
BECAUSE SHE DID.
You missed the point that you yourself just made. New voters didn't turn out. Why? Because they were fucking brainwashed into not voting for her because she's (a) a woman (b) a Clinton and (c) Barack Obama. I had (I've deleted several hundred for racist bs) almost 5,000 friends on FB. (I do something public so I have a lot of friends) The sheer amount of "Anti-Obama" posts I saw was staggering. And a lot of it was coming from (so called) Democrats!!!!!!!!
This election cycle was the perfect storm for Republican fear. Black Lives Matter. Isis. Terrorist threats. Email. Benghazi. They rode the fuck out of the rage people had.
I know people want to believe Bernie would've been able to fight the tide, but he couldn't. Their playbook against him was going to be JUST as abrasive. And people would've voted against him and "the dumb kids" supporting him. Because that's what was happening during the primary. Tons and tons of rhetoric online about how we'd be screwed w/ Bernie because he was a "socialist" who had "gimme pigs" voting for him.
The end result, IMHO, would've been the same. They (Republican Machine) had the arguments of hate down pat. They were ready either way. The people who didn't vote for Hillary because she's a woman and because they're racist are the same people who wouldn't have voted for Bernie because he's Jewish and they swore he'd destroy the economy with his socialism. The vote in this election came down to one of ignorance and it was fed by fear/hate/rage.
THAT'S THE BIG PICTURE. We're dealing with Confederate Flag waving morons who have been indoctrinated in hate.
The Republicans have been aiming for this for 8 years. They have their voters believing that a secret Muslim is in the WH.
At the end of the day, this is racist & sexist hate.
Focus on what matters. Stop with the "she did this, she did that" and because of "XYZ" people didn't come out to vote. Their not coming out to vote was - in many cases- an agreement with the Republican argument.
THAT is the problem. THAT is what we need to work on.
LibraLiz1973
(8,197 posts)That isn't to say her campaign was flawless.
It wasn't.
She was the candidate I supported, donated to and voted for.
I had many reservations about her running this time. I thought it was foolish & even a little selfish. She wanted to make history.
I DO have bones to pick with her about how ill-prepared she was for some things. She was all over the map on the emails. I felt taking responsibility (which she did) should've been the end of it. Not more explanations and deflections. Just take responsibility and move on. The End.
I also feel that knowing she was going to run should've played a larger factor in her decision making process where the Wall Street speeches were concerned. I mean seriously. Was she joking? That was such a rookie move. And of course once the hack of her speeches came and they caught her dead to rights saying you would have multiple ways of presenting things to different people... that was a train wreck. She all but handed Donald his argument on a silver platter.
She wasn't a perfect candidate by any stretch of the imagination.
Having said that, I don't think there IS a perfect candidate.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Don't forget anti-abortion and pro-gun.
All-inclusive is best.
TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)Good going America.
TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)just 50 or so years ago...we've made progress...obviously there is much more work to be done but we can look at the glass that's half full if we want to....or you can dwell on the glass that's half empty.