The campaign we ran was centrist. Being MORE centrist in '20 won't help us.

[Ken Burch]

We need a larger electorate. We need to find new ways of getting people to the polls. "Vote for us and we'll be LESS different" won't do that...and it won't flip the Upper Midwest back.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Find a candidate that has the capacity to inspire the people to vote.

That was the number one problem.

[Ken Burch]

3. Agreed. And saying that isn't an expression of hatred.

We do need that. Woman or man, of whatever race or religion or lack of religion or sexual orientation, we need that.

We also need a way of talking to voters that connects with enough of them, that sends the message to them that we can be trusted, that we won't make anyone feel left out in the cold.

And we apparently need a far better get out the vote operation than we had. Which means we need to use some of the money that was donated to pay for transporting enough volunteers to the states we NEED to win, housing them, feeding them, giving them some place to do their laundry while they do the work of electing us.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

59. NOBODY connects with voters better than Bernie! He will lead us out of the wilderness.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

[YOHABLO]

21. We had Bernie Sanders .. he got clobbered by Super Delegates !!

[Buzz Clik]

30. Clinton had more delegates of every kind, more total votes, etc etc

The election wasn't stolen from Bernie. He lost.

[ehrnst]

43. Yes - the Democrats spoke. And we got a candidate that got more votes than any white guy ever. (nt)

[Buzz Clik]

44. ... but not distributed properly.

Poor turnout in a couple of key states (coupled with a healthy dose of voter suppression), and there you go.

[ehrnst]

45. Yes, in states that were weighted to give rural voters more say than urban voters.

And that means "white."

[Maven]

52. No, he failed to win enough pledged delegates, i.e., votes.

And then tried to get superdelegates to do for him what the voters wouldn't.

[pnwmom]

25. She inspired more people to vote than any white man in history. And she inspired more than a million

more voters than Trump.

But she couldn't overcome the follow-up to the court's overturning the voting rights act in 2013, in which the votes of millions were suppressed through various means.

[Else You Are Mad]

26. Hillary had a very low voter turn out.

Trump won with less voters than McCain or Romney. She was not enthusiasticly voted for amongst the rust belt states that went overwhelmingly for Obama.

What Obama did that Hillary didn't was that he heavily campaign in the rust belt and inspired them to vote for him -- a black man with a Muslim name that was consistently called a communist during each of his two elections. Hillary won the two million votes thanks to California that was heavily favored for her regardless. Hillary did not try to win the working poor of all races in the rust belt because she thought that she could coast on the coastal bubble votes.

Hillary ran a campaign assuming that she was going to win and only courted the voters she knew she would win. Trump went into deep Democratic Obama country and convinced them to vote for him.

[pnwmom]

33. Overturning the voting rights act in 2013 led to the suppression of millions of votes.

This happened AFTER Obama's re-election in 2012, so no one can know how many votes Obama would have lost if the voter suppression had happened before his re-election.

https://thinkprogress.org/2016-a-case-study-in-voter-suppression-258b5f90ddcd#.igkk28356

[ehrnst]

50. Yep. (nt)

[Else You Are Mad]

53. That is true...

But, Hillary knew that the voting rights act was dismantled and that quite a few rust belt states were significantly affected by subsequent laws because of such, yet, she still ignored those states and did not fight that hard to get out the vote. Like you said, the partial overturning of the voter rights act occurred in 2013. That was two years before she announced her campaign, why didn't she come up with a strategy to overcome that?

Please see, e.g., http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-campaign-neglect_us_582cacb0e4b058ce7aa8b861

[ehrnst]

49. Trump exploited white male rage at 8 years of Obama.

Along with the Sarah Palin type women who derive their sense of power from the men that they are aligned with.

How the hell were we supposed to "court" these people?

She got more votes than any candidate but Obama.

[Buzz Clik]

29. ugh.

Your point is taken, but you're smart enough to know the flaws in your argument.

I like you far too much to push this.

[pnwmom]

48. Did you happen to read this?

https://thinkprogress.org/2016-a-case-study-in-voter-suppression-258b5f90ddcd#.igkk28356

Republicans were wildly successful at suppressing voters in 2016

Three GOP-controlled states demonstrate the effectiveness of disenfranchising the opposition. . . .

[Else You Are Mad]

55. Please read this too...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-campaign-neglect_us_582cacb0e4b058ce7aa8b861

[ehrnst]

46. And the effect of 8 years of a black president on a simmering underbelly.

I don't know that any candidate could have overcome that, even if they were white, and stood up to pee.

[HassleCat]

2. Centrist would be OK.

But we need to make it clear there are areas where we will not compromise. We need to stand for something, not try to stand for all things. And we need to stop confusing centrist with inclusive.

[NCTraveler]

4. How does one go from centrist, to more centrist?

The jargon isn't even making sense at this point.

There was nothing centrist about Clintons progressive tax plan. There was nothing centrist about Clintons plan to deal with Wall Street. There was nothing centrist about Clintons immigration plan.

When is this bullshit going to stop?

[Ken Burch]

6. Most of that wasn't emphasized in the ads and on the stump.

And that was party strategists insisting on that, so I'm not attacking the candidate here.

It was all about appealing to "suburban Republican women"...and after all that, none of the suburban Republican women voted for us, or will ever vote for us again.

[NCTraveler]

9. Strange. All the way around strange.

"It was all about appealing to "suburban Republican women"...and after all that, none of the suburban Republican women voted for us, or will ever vote for us again."

Something has to stick at some point. I'm impressed. OMC would be proud.

[Ken Burch]

10. I'm not attacking. I'm not bashing.

n/t.

[NCTraveler]

11. Never said you were. nt.

[NurseJackie]

28. He always does that. When cornered or when an irrefutable point has been made...

... the response is ALWAYS some variation of "I'm not the enemy" or "I'm not bashing". The intent of such a tactic is to imply (falsely) that you've engaged in some sort of personal attack.

Clearly you haven't done that. Obviously you never said those things. What you really did was to challenge or contradict someone and put them on the spot.

The bizarre tactic of pretending to be victimized by you (making totally false accusations against you) are just a way of throwing you off-guard and to put you on the defensive and to divert attention from the point/s you've made.

Naturally, you respond with "I never said that" ... meanwhile he scurries off, never to be heard from again, thus ending the "argument" in this particular sub-thread.

Frustrating, isn't it?

[NCTraveler]

31. He has done it three times to me today.

The only three times I have conversed with him today.

[ehrnst]

51. The vast majority of women who voted, voted for Hillary. And People of Color.

But hey - blame it all on some 'futile' attempt to address the issues that white straight men in the Democratic party found tiresome and "centrist."

Because lord knows, "it was all about" one thing, because you say so.

And by all means, let this be a lesson about making any further party goals have anything to do with women - because that was TOTALLY the whole reason we lost.

Returning to the economic concerns of men who feel they have been neglected in lieu of those less pressing and distracting demographics of women, LGBTQs, people of color, the disabled, children, and latinos is how we become "more progressive."

Damn those women. One in particular. All their fault.

[Ken Burch]

56. Sanders supporters weren't all white men, and our campaign was anti-oppression and pro-choice, too.

We were never against addressing the issues you prioritize. It didn't have to be "either/or".

[MurrayDelph]

35. It's very simple

the right keeps moving the goalpost, so the center moves with it.

When I was a kid, if you were to graph political views from 1 to 100, one being the left-most and 100 being the most-conservative, I would have scored a 45.

Now that I am an old guy, my opinions would still place me at around 45, but the definition of most-conservative now goes up to 1000.

[NCTraveler]

36. While you have a solid point.

Me thinks some also make it up as they go in order to make a severely flawed point.

[ehrnst]

47. When the "important" and "neglected" demographic takes their Democratic party back....(nt)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

60. Nailed it! I have to believe we're not going to make the same mistake twice in a row. It's time to reward Bernie for his loyalty...

and pass the baton to him.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

[NCTraveler]

61. About sums up much of what I'm seeing. Lol nt

[meow2u3]

5. We MUST go economic populist

Economic populism on steroids is the way to go in '20 or we lose big time!

And I hate to break it to you, but moderating the social issues is a good idea because we need to cast as wide a net as we can. I'm not saying we have to sound like RWNJs, but toning or slowing down the rapid social change will do us good in the long run.

Sometimes social progress is best when it's done slowly so people will have time to get used to it without freaking out--I'm talking about lunchbucket Democrats, not those who wouldn't vote for us anyhow.

[NCTraveler]

7. "Economic populism on steroids is the way to go in '20 or we lose big time!"

Not sure about the win/lose part.

I do agree it should take up a bigger share of the campaign and we should stop softening progressive populist rhetoric during national campaigns. I think Clinton was more open to this rhetoric than many of our past Democratic Presidential hopefuls. The rhetoric was still spread out with numerous different messages and issues.

[meow2u3]

12. The thing missing was a unifying theme

You're right in that the rhetoric was spread out with too many different messages and issues, which confuse voters. The issues and messages must coalesce around one big picture and the details can wait. That's what repukes do well where we normally fall short. They focus on a vision, however false it may be; we concentrate on an amalgam of issues.

We need to double, triple, quadruple, and even quintuple down on the progressive populist rhetoric not only during national campaigns, but also during state and local ones, too, so repukes won't know what hit them. No more scapegoat hunting--blame the real culprits for the jobs leaving and never coming back--the big bosses who take, take, take and never give a penny back!

[NCTraveler]

13. I like every word you have written here.

The difficulty seems to be in the two parties constituencies and how our candidates perceive their constituency. Republicans are more monolithic while ours is more diverse. It seems to divide our time when it's truly not necessary. Wrapping up our theme with economic populism can be done while not ignoring other important aspects. Additionally, economic populism appeals to almost every single constituency group in the country.

[yallerdawg]

42. "Stronger together."

Works for me. I even have a book with that title. By Hillary and her VP choice!

The number one issue now for Republicans is "repealing Obamacare."

Jobs? Yeah, the ones immigrants are taking from us!

Irony of ironies - Sanders was all about "the billionaires." America elects one.

It's to soon to quintuple down on progressive populism.

In 4 years, we may simply have to run a smart candidate who can bail the country out - again.

[brewens]

8. My number one issue will most likely remain the same. Stop the looting at the top! Only one

candidate convinced me he would try. I voted for Hillary. I threw up in my mouth a little doing it, but I did.

[NurseJackie]

14. Hoo boy!

There's a reason the Greens are a separate party and there are reasons that they can't even get 5% of the vote. Why would you want to make the Democratic part more like the kooky fringe batshit crazy Greenies? This defies logic.

[Warren DeMontague]

15. we lost the election because of Bernie Sanders and JPR. Period.

Obviously.

You can either shut up and get on board, or spend the next 4 years being called more cute names that start or end with "--bro".

[hedda_foil]

16. I saw what you did there.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. yeah, and I'm right.

you don't see that narrative being pushed? One didn't need to be Nostradamus to see it coming, either.

[MrScorpio]

18. How about someone with some charisma?

[pnwmom]

20. Millions of people think she has plenty of charisma.

In the space of a few weeks, several million joined a private FB group just to laud her without interference from those who'd rather pick her apart for flaws.

And more voters chose her than Trump.

[MrScorpio]

62. Actually, I was referring to future elections

But when it came to Hill, clearly her charisma was mitigated by years of right wing smear tactics.

Rather than having one cancel out the other in our next candidate, I'd like to see someone who can charm the pants off the American voter and not have years of baggage that can be used against him or her.

Frankly, I'd love to see Tammy Duckworth run in 2020.

[pnwmom]

19. No, it wasn't "centrist." A call for raising taxes on the wealthy, for providing free college

for everyone but the wealthy, and for expanding the social safety net with better healthcare coverage is PROGRESSIVE, not centrist.

Exit polls show Hillary was perceived as too liberal, and that only 17% identified themselves as liberal. That was her problem -- not being too centrist.

[YOHABLO]

22. "Exit polls show Hillary was perceived as too liberal," Hogwash

People in this country have their heads up their asses .. they don't know jack shit about much. All the polls had Hillary with anywhere from 4 to 5 points ahead of Trump. So much for polls.

[pnwmom]

24. At the end the poll average had her up about 3 points - within the margin of error.

And those polls wouldn't show the effects of Comey's second statement, saying they'd once again decided not to press CRIMINAL charges against her. Being again associated with the word CRIMINAL -- even in a phrase containing the word "not" -- was a final nail in her campaign coffin, two days before the election. The undecideds wouldn't view that as a good reason to vote for her. For all they knew Comey would find another "trove" after the election, and re-open the investigation.

Also, the exit polls showed that 54% wanted policies more conservative than Obama's. When i heard that number I knew we were in trouble.

[scheming daemons]

23. Nonsense. This was the most progressive platform in decades. Even Bernie said so.

[hrmjustin]

27. I don't think she ran as a centrist. The platform was the most progressive according to Sanders.

We need to get the right balance between policies that will appeal to the left and the center. We can't win without holding the left and keeping the center.

[ehrnst]

38. THANK YOU. (nt)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. it's the most progressive agenda that has ever been put forth

what world are you living in that you think this was moderate.

[ehrnst]

40. If white straight men feel left out, then apparently, it's problematic

Lord knows that appealing to LGBTQs, Persons of color, New Americans, and Women and girls, who overwhelmingly supported Hillary, is "too centrist" if white men feel as though their economic concerns are being pushed to the side.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

66. exactly.

[duffyduff]

34. How many times is this broken record still being played?

Mansplaining to people who voted for a woman that they are stupid.

[Warren DeMontague]

65. you mean the "blame teh berniebrooos" record?

I suspect we're gonna be hearing it a lot in the coming weeks.

Hey, at least DU is getting back to normal, huh.

[ehrnst]

37. If "centrist" means that you continue to honor PoC, women's issues, Latinos, LGBTQs

instead of ignoring them, then I'll take "centrist."

Otherwise, we aren't progressive in any way shape or form.

[mcar]

39. I'm so tired of people ignoring true liberals

and saying we're centrist because we didn't kowtow to racists and misogynists.

Less than 100,000 votes in 3 states combined decided this election and people here act like it was a landslide loss.

[ehrnst]

41. 1000 yes.

[Ken Burch]

58. Nobody was asking anyone to kowtow to racists or misogynists.

Economic justice is anti-racist and anti-oppression. The justice struggles go together.

[Ken Burch]

57. Nobody in the entire campaign ever argued for NOT honoring those issues.

Or for ceasing to honor them now.

Dealing with economic justice and class HELPS to honor those.

There is no dispute on support for the anti-oppression agenda.

[ericson00]

54. there was nothing centrist about a major party POTUS candidate talking "white privilege,"

"implicit bias," being against capital punishment, talking transgender issues as a POTUS nominee, refusing to say "Islamic terrorism," and other issues that just don't play well in red states and purple states. I think Bernie pushed Hillary to the left and he took the economic lane so she went social/racial, but it didn't help in the GE.

Should a Dem nominee be to the left of the '96 platform? Yes, but it probably would be best to mainly do that on the environment, gay (but not trans) issues, stem cell research, and other issues. Fact is this country is still majority white, and non-college whites just aren't gonna grasp gender identity as a concept, they don't see life in the urban areas or meet enough AAs to accept the idea of "implicit bias," and we can't rely on massive black turnout every election. Its just not sustainable.

[JI7]

63. Obama was more Centrist than Clinton . although neither was centrist but in comparison Obama ran

more moderate centrist than Clinton. Obama is also more of a free trader than Clinton. i mean looking at their history also.

so facts kind of don't support what you are saying.

[Ken Burch]

64. I'm responding to the argument some are making that we lost because we weren't "centrist" enough.

Our presentation and tone, it struck me, was as centrist as ever.

There were progressive things in the platform, as I spent the fall pointing out to the people I was trying to persuade(and I think occasionally managed to persuade)to vote Hillary on antifascist grounds.

And I was also arguing that our ads and the stump speeches should have keyed more on that, rather than focus as heavily as we did on Trump's personal hideousness. Yes, we were right to call it out, but as we did we needed to be pushing the good things in our platform and reminding people of them, rather than simply expecting people to remember.