2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBreaking News - Sanders now willing to work with TRUMP to raise the min. wage to 10.00 dollars
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-allies/index.html![](du4img/smicon-reply-new.gif)
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Do we strive to get a few little crumbs, since the crumbs would feed a few people? Or do we forget about the crumbs and focus elsewhere? There is no correct answer, by the way.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)napi21
(45,806 posts)to work with us. THAT's the main reason congress has such a low rating. We have all wanting an raise in the m minimum wage but the Pubs refused to even consider it. I hate the idea that we are going to have a President Con, but I'm siding with Chuck Schumer on this. If there are things we can agree on, we're going to work with the Pubs to get things done. If they try to pass things we believer would hurt the American people, we'll fight them all the way. To maintain the do nothing attitude of the Pubs for the last 8 years, it's the American people.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)They even stole one of our SCOTUS picks...that has to stop. Do not work with the GOP period. The GOP must be so obstructed that they never do what they did during Obama's administration again. President Clinton 'worked' with the GOP after 94. And I have heard that criticized over and over. What is it about us that we feel the need to work with these snakes...our only goal should be victory in the midterm and we need to make the GOP look very bad and give them no vote on issues like Social Security or Medicare...no compromise. If we work with them...they all do it will be the cry of the GOP operatives.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)This is not about wrong or right either...it is about supporting Trump and a party that wants to do truly evil stuff...giving them legitimacy. It should not happen...we should follow their example and stand strong and fight them every step of the way. No one will vote for a weak Democratic party. The GOP elected demanded that Obama work with them on social security. When he tried they ran ads in 10 saying he cut social security and never worked with him anyway. The GOP spent eight years stopping Obama surely we can manage two years without caving. Don't offer any more concessions Bernie or any Democrat.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... will just reinforce the myth that ONLY the GOP can make Washington work.
NO! Block them at every turn. Give them NOTHING!
The suffering that's to come is already going to happen. Why make it last LONGER?
Let the GOP squeal like stuck pigs when the Dems block everything.
Fuck them!
napi21
(45,806 posts)I want Schumer toobeat the Pubs like Te
I want Schumer to9 beat the hell out of the Pubs like Teddy Kennedy did when they try to push their greedy, all for the rich ideas forward, I want him to smash them like a bug, but if we can get SOMETHING done for the good of the Country they should do that too.
d
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)That's a BAD message to send - bad for the Democratic Party.
NO concessions. NO compromising. Turn Mitch McConnell's oath against him in these 2 to 4 years.
Obstruct! Obstruct! Obstruct!
Hey, it worked for Republicans! They've all but eviscerated us across the country. Apparently, this is what the American people want. I say, give it to them.
hueymahl
(2,495 posts)That is what rethugs do. Not progressives.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Isn't fighting them at every turn and opposing their every move the same type of take-a-stand philosophy as the "Never Hillary" people had? You know, the one that was so admired and defended around here?
Why is it okay to write-in Bernie or to be "Never Hillary" and have it defended as being a "voter with principles" ... yet when this philosophy ends up putting the GOOP in power, why now is standing firm against giving the GOP any thing to claim as their own is suddenly considered to be "unprogressive" and something to be frowned upon or scolded.
Why is one okay, but the other not? Especially odd when you consider that when 'one' CREATED the 'other' in the first place.
You guys are hard to figure out sometime. Black is white and up is down. Good is bad and strong is weak.
Make up your minds already.
hueymahl
(2,495 posts)I voted for, campaigned for and donated to HRC. I entered the election night with both a feeling of hope and a hidden feeling of dread. She would have made a fantastic, incredible president.
But she was CRAP as a candidate.
So, quit trying to lump me in with some nefarious group that somehow caused her to lose.
We need progressive policies passed. If Trump will pass a progressive policy, we should support that. Just as we should fight against every possible non-progressive policy we can. Otherwise, we are harming real people in an attempt at "justice" or "payback" or some other self-centered bull shit.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)She was a wonderful candidate. She was brilliant and inspiring. You guys need to stop trying to rewrite history.
We need to give Trump and his cronies NO VICTORIES, of ANY KIND. Nothing they can point to as any sort of "accomplishment" ... nothing they can use as leverage in getting something passed that causes exponentially more HARM than the little good that may come about from a "progressive policy".
FREEZE THEM IN THEIR TRACKS! They get NOTHING! Any success will be used in future elections. They'll gleefully declare "see? we Republicans can get things done!" as justification for electing MORE Republicans and KEEPING them in power.
But what it really means is that a spineless and compliant House and Senate just sat on their thumbs... you want the Democrats to become "Rick Grimes" to Trump's "Negan".
No, this isn't "self-centered" bull shit. This is long-term thinking.
You guys should know that, right? Y'all know what that's all about.. I mean you should. And if you really don't, I'll be surprised beyond belief.
hueymahl
(2,495 posts)I believe in not condemning millions of low wage families to four years of suffering. I believe in showing how progressive policies make us better. I believe in a thousand incremental improvements are better than standing on principal and failing, again and again and again.
You guys apparently believe in vengeance over compassion, principle over progression, power over people.
We could not hold more different views and still both be liberals.
Very interesting. Us vs. them. Even when we are on the same side.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... for the next 8-12 years.
Why have a party at all if we're just going to let them walk all over us?
You can be a timid, broken, frightened and kowtowing Rick Grimes if you want. I'm gonna be Carol or Michonne and encourage everyone I know to be the same. We're screwed either way.
hueymahl
(2,495 posts)I am not calling you a conservative, not even close. I am suggesting that the scorched earth approach you are advocating is dead wrong.
Our positions, liberal, progressive positions, need to be advocated with a vengeance. But if we can advance our positions in any meaningful way, that is good for the liberal cause, never bad for it.
I am attacking the DNC and its leadership. They need to do some serious soul searching. Blaming Comey, the weather, the moon, Brietbart, etc. does not do anything.
To be clear, I am not trying to insult you. But I am trying to change your mind and your point of view.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)And working with the Orange Hilter who will do nothing to help anyone is a bad idea...fight him at every turn...he picked a cabinet we simply can not work with.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And there is no large group of voters that will switch to us if only the left is kicked out again like it was in the Nineties.
Agreed that Trump should get no victories. It's the right wing of the party you'll have to persuade on that, though-the wing that gave Dubya everything he wanted from 2001 to 2007.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)back moderate Hillary (called her a corporatist and a liar), yet they support a guy who is appointing an unrepentant segregationist who was too racist for even Reagan as AG and a nut case for NSA...I don't get it.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... "normalizing" the GOP by submitting to their obstructionists tactics.
It's disgusting.
PS: Any $10 "minimum wage" bill that has GOP hands on it will certainly be tied to other concessions... it won't be a CLEAN bill. The wage amount will be conditional, limited to certain jobs or certain regions, it will have "trigger" events or "trigger" dates, and it will phased-in and ramped-up over the course of ten years.
What Bernie supporters imagine happening is pure fantasy.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)TeamPooka
(24,221 posts)control
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)I thought that's what Republicans did.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)and the last thing we need to do is give the appearance that shit gets done under a Repub Pres and Repub-controlled Congress.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)No... the Republicans would bite their own nose to spite their face.
If there is a bill up, and it does good for America, I expect my Rep to vote for it. If it does harm, they should fight tooth and nail.
Obstructing for the sake of obstruction is bullshit IMO. If there is a bill to bring up the minimum wage, I expect my Rep to vote for it. Otherwise you may as well find a hard working family, who are below the poverty line in spite of working full time, knock on their door and yell "Fuck you for the next four years, we'll be back when election outcomes may work in your favor."
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)This is war. You don't bring a daisy to a gunfight with the credo, "Can't we all just try to get along? Please?"
And it's not obstructing for the sake of obstruction. It's obstructing for the survival of the Democratic Party for 2018. The American people don't reward weak-spined people even when they ultimately benefit from it. This past election made that very clear.
For all the good President Obama has worked so hard for, people (who weren't disenfranchised) cast their vote for a Republican blowhard and the same Republicans they SAID they were tired of. Instead, the blamed President Obama for all the ills that are a direct result of unprecedented Republican obstructionism. NO BLAME went to Republicans. This is how people see our Gov't, as uninformed as they are.
So we return the favor or *Trump will get the credit and that would be a death knell for the Democratic Party in 2018 and 2020.
No more business as usual. Fuck that. And you know what? I also HOPE Lyin'Ryan successfully gets his bills through to privatize Social Security and voucherize Medicare without Dem interference. Elections have consequences and it's high time those idiots who constantly vote against their financial interests are made to understand that.
bench scientist
(1,107 posts)We give them NOTHING. Nothing, and nothing is far far better than anything the GOP will do.
LisaM
(27,803 posts)TeamPooka
(24,221 posts)cause and position to hold.
Democrats need to obstruct everything and explain why as they do it.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)starting wars, trade deals, Wall Street bailouts.
Bernie's statement after the election was exactly right: on issues when you want to pass progressive policy, we will work with you.
On issues where you want to do the opposite, we will fight you.
That should have been the Democratic position for decades.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)unleashing hell on earth by winning the midterms...you legitimize Trump by working with him...the GOP did nothing to work with Obama...they need to get the same treatment, or we are weak and foolish.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)And the democrats are all lining up to do that very thing already!
yurbud
(39,405 posts)They have had trouble staying on the same page even when it hurt Obama's foreign and domestic policy initiatives, or even Hillary's election chances, like Chuck Schumer saying they could do a corporate tax cut after the election just two weeks before, which minimized the difference between the two parties, which doesn't exactly help people get excited about voting for Democrats.
hueymahl
(2,495 posts)The DNC leadership got us in this mess. We need new leadership, asap. True democrats should be emulating Bernie, not disparaging him.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)followed by action.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)No we never work with them...it would like working with Hitler. Bernie needs to stop now.
yurbud
(39,405 posts)Progressive proposals.
Their minimum wage proposal is to eliminate it.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)yurbud
(39,405 posts)or modifying the terms of the second half of TARP?
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)We work with those CS the same way they worked with President Obama the last eight years!!!
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)if we get the Senate back no judges for them...we will let the voters decide.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Don't work with the Republicans period...no good ever comes from it. Bernie should not do this.
TeamPooka
(24,221 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)TeamPooka
(24,221 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)but without strings attached if a republican wants to do a good thing, let them fucking do it. First of all, how likely do you think it is this will even happen. Second of all, if it does republicans have to suddenly defend this sort of legislation. It becomes part of the republican record, and that is not a bad thing. If they distance themselves from it in the future they have to risk alienating people they courted with it.
It is simply irresponsible to try to block all things. Yes the republicans do it, and the American people suffer from it. Besides, thinking that you can play the same game as Republicans though is fundamentally misunderstanding how our media works. It would be brutal on the Dems in a way it never was on the Pubs.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Anyone who put faith in Trump is going to be sorely disappointed.
TheBlackAdder
(28,183 posts).
Some people need to realize that this is a four year involvement and, if the net benefit is a positive for Democratic Party values, they should be pursued, regardless of who is president.
Some people need to detach from the election and the rigidness of thought/vindictiveness that permeates Republicans.
We are better than that! Fight on the issues that compromise our values, support things that benefit them.
===
Trump will try to distance himself from many positions, as he is reversing course on so many promises.
His base is too stupid to realize that, even if he is challenged and agrees to past promises.
.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Being better means shit if we never get a chance to govern...and Obama was given no chance. Thus they get the same treatment and maybe next time we are in power they will consider if they want to govern ever ... maybe they should stand down...or not...either way, they don't get to put shitty GOP policy into law and claim it was bipartisan because we fight them...and that would include stripping any Dem who does not fight of any yummy congressional goodies...we play hardball. It is the only chance we have.
TheBlackAdder
(28,183 posts).
Even the Republicans allowed certain things to pass. They weren't 100% asshole, but we should be.
So we become them, act like spiteful children just because they did the same thing.
If a law or act is beneficial, that should be immaterial.
.
True_Blue
(3,063 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)corrupt, establishment politician working against working class people.
MY GOD!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Hope this puts shit in perspective for everyone.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)I don't.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)ThirdEye
(204 posts)Give me a break. This is Bernie try to work with Trump after the election. In reality, he's probably trying to simply expose how Trump was full shit.
mcar
(42,302 posts)We've had 2 days of non stop criticism of Hillary's campaign but still, whatever Sanders does is pure as the driven snow.
Ugly.
ThirdEye
(204 posts)If by goal post you mean "election night" then yes, the goal post has been moved. Otherwise, what do you mean goal post?
Ok, if Sanders threatened Hillary that he'd refuse to work with her on $12 if she won (not simply not support her in the GE), I see your point. I'll assume that's your point.
But don't you think Sanders is just trying to expose Trump?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)ThirdEye
(204 posts)Do you know the man personally?
and if they all will - doesn't that speak to something greater than Sanders?
WhiteTara
(29,704 posts)who will not see. It's going to be a long few years.
ThirdEye
(204 posts)... and you'd probably be right in all cases.
d'oh!
Actually, that's one reason I'm telling friends in family: don't waste energy engaging with Trump voters, spend that energy engaging with people who didn't vote for Trump or Clinton, especially those who just didn't vote. Trump voters will never change their mind or admit their president is flawed.
WhiteTara
(29,704 posts)That's what your hero is trying to jam down the throats of those that supported him when he said $15 only and Hillary is a stooge for mentioning that $12 was a passable wage. But instead the bright shining hero of the the alt left has hung us all out to dry as he says he will enthusiastically work with Drumpf. Blind indeed.
I don't specifically support $10/hr for the minimum wage. I do support $15/hr. More than that, I support tracking the minimum wage with some other indicator so we can pull away form having to debate raising it. Something like GDP or inflation.
Having lived in Vermont for decades, having been represented by Bernie for decades in various capacities, having met him myself, having close friends who are personally close to him, I'm compelled to give him the benefit of the doubt on his approach.
If it ends up being truly as you say, then it's terrible.
Keep in mind, among your strong words is really negative rhetoric that, to me at least, only emphasizes how much the recent loss has hurt you personally. Calling me blind, saying he's enthusiastically working from trump, throwing out the term "alt left" as if that's even well defined. Seems to me you have an opinion about Bernie, you arrived at it a long time ago, and you wish to keep it that way.
WhiteTara
(29,704 posts)did wound me and although I am working to not be negative; I find it very difficult to let this pass as water over a duck. While Bernie may prove to be a savior of the world, he did say that he would enthusiastically work with Trump for his (Bernie's) goals and in the next breath capitulates on the $15.00 minimum wage...never mind his excoriation of Hillary's $12. proposal.
I have to say that my faith in men has been shattered during this election season. Where is Bernie demanding Trump's tax returns before he takes office...oh, he probably won't as that would bring up HIS refusal to submit his tax returns, right before he bought his 3rd house. Just little things like that make my hair stand on end with the horror of the knowledge that women will, for the foreseeable future once again be relegated to the back seat and the dust bin of history. Hillary was given impossible standards that Bernie is now ignoring for Trump. White men backing white men is what it appears on the surface; but maybe there is 20 dimensional chess going on and Bernie will save us all.
But let's all sing kumbaijah and have a jolly good time watching every advance we (as women and society) have made be reversed. As a white man, your privilege is secure; but I hope you'll join us on the 21st in the march for women in DC.
ThirdEye
(204 posts)Because you're right, I am a white male. I also have a well paying job that will not go away due to a Trump presidency. I am, however, married to a someone who isn't an American citizen. So there is some fear, but I will never claim to understand or relate to the plight of those truly affected. Seriously, I was ill for days after the election and then I realized: holy shit, this won't even directly affect me and I'm scared shitless, think of the people this directly affects (a.k.a. almost everyone else). It was a humbling moment.
I can't argue against your point about the tax returns. You're probably right. I would emphasize that Bernie is far from wealthy. True story, he inconvenienced me on a road here in Vermont once by driving super slow in a banged up Saturn, preventing me from turning on to a road. It was a bit of an LOL moment when I passed him a few minutes later and saw it was a US Senator. That was only 3 or 4 years ago.
I agree, there's no kumbaijah. My faith in Americans, specifically white men, was shattered as well. Frankly, I didn't have much faith in them to begin with. Edit: I should say no kumbaijah as in I'd rather us fight back with a hardline against them, I do not like Bernie approach here myself.
I will honestly look into that march you reference. I have friend near DC that I will also talk to.
LisaM
(27,803 posts)I could cry. You summed it all up so beautifully.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Hubs says no...but I am going. He will have to deal with it. (He fears for my safety with a fascist about to inaugurated).
WhiteTara
(29,704 posts)$80 a night for a 4 share room, but still no transportation. My physical limitation is that I have a damaged spine and can't walk for long periods of time nor stand indefinitely. I could try and find a wheel chair when I get there, but it all sounds so hard and right now I really hurt.
I went to DC so often during the *co 8 years, but time passes and I think I may be too old this time. THis is a torch that must be passed to younger women everywhere.
Thank you for going. Take a step for me!
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)I have a wheelchair...my daughter broke both her ankles.
WhiteTara
(29,704 posts)Where are you and the wheelchair? Sorry about your daughter's broken ankles. That must have been terrible.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)She has surgery and is walking but I saved the wheelchair because you never know...the lousy hospital sent her home with crutches!! Like to broken ankles and you can use crutches...she was not supposed to put any weight on the ankle.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)I feel exactly as you do...I really feel betrayed by those men (women too but I have not heard anything about that yet) including Bernie who are willing to work with Trump who is evil and a threat to everything I value.
Bodhi BloodWave
(2,346 posts)If i understand your mindset correctly so far in this thread then you believe that you all(using 'you all' since i am a Norwegian thus can't really say we) should oppose any and all things from trump/the reps since they are pure evil and a threat to what you value.
I just can't agree with that for the simple reason that if you oppose them on an issue that would improve upon one or more of the values you cherish then YOU would be the one thats harming those values(obviously if there are insidius or harmful strings attached to said bill, oppose away since that would be common sense)
As an outsider tho, i simply don't think sinking to the level of the republicans and blindly opposing everything they want to do would be beneficial to the Democratic party.
There is a quote by George Carlin(amongst others) i like that somewhat suits this: Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.( aka Democrats shouldn't try to emulate the idiocy of the republicans as they have much more practice in being idiots )
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)that the Republicans opposed everything Obama wanted to do...everything. They refused to allow us to govern and now don't deserve to be treated with any consideration. Plus, they have no good idea. The fascist right has hijacked the party...and we simply must refuse to give them any normalcy. They want to register Muslims ( among other awful things)..think about that. Personally, when they register Muslims. I too will register...as was done by Denmark during WWII. My daughter who is gay has been threatened at college by Trump supporters who stalked her on the internet. Trump represents a great evil and must be vanquished politically as soon as possible. It can not be business as usual with this man. He is dangerous.
Bodhi BloodWave
(2,346 posts)I fully expect 99.5% of the things Trump or the republicans propose to be harmful in one way or another which gives valid grounds to oppose it, i'm merely saying that *iF* something is proposed that is beneficial and above board then those 0.5% should not be obstructed just cause of who proposes it.
To use an situation nearing the impossible(and yes, the situation chosen was based on your post since i assume the issue is one close to your heart), if Trump were to advocate a bill with nothing neferious attached to it that would improve the life of gays in the US in different ways then it would in my eyes be wrong both morally and ethically of the democrats to oppose it, admittedly such a bill from Trump would likely have nearly if not all republican politicans oppose it from the get go(thus falling under my near impossible category of ever happening in the first place)
So i think we are more or less in the same camp, i just don't belive in a totally blind obstruction.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Their policies would have been not to my liking but they were not fascists. Trump must be opposed because of who he is...and how he emboldens the KKK and the Nazis. But we mostly agree. And let's face it the GOP will not offer anything that will be any good.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)ThirdEye
(204 posts)And have several close friends who are close to him. (as close as you can be to a senator and not part of his family)
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)to do this.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)But here we are.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)figure was BS all along.
Kinda like Il Douche promising to bring back high paying union jobs with bennies to America LOL
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Security clearances Trump is seeking that reek of the grossest corruption this nation has ever seen?
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)I don't find that admirable...he is waiving the white flag even before the inauguration...so much for fighting for the people and the revolution.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Last edited Sun Nov 20, 2016, 12:46 PM - Edit history (1)
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Well, he is not a Democrat. Schumer should kick him out of his committees. Personally, it makes me dislike Bernie even more...that he is willing to do anything but obstruct. So much for the revolution. This is why Democrats lose. There is no loyalty to each other and fighting back. I forsee a big midterm loss and a 48 state loss in 20 if this continues. Trump is illegitimate and wants to register Muslims. By working with Trump AKA the new Hitler, you 'normalize him and his white supremacist buddies like Bannon.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)And by offering to work with Republicans who are now White supremacists, he shows he shouldn't be in such a position. Loyalty matters and if Bernie can't be part of the united front against the fascist Republican party, then he should be removed from leadership. He could caucus with either party as an independent.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Last edited Sun Nov 20, 2016, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)
My suggestion? Keep your eye on the ball... opposing Fuhrer Trump for the next four years and defeating that racist, mysogynistic pig in 2020!! Bernie has the leadership skills and, more importantly, the street cred to lead the charge. That's all I'm gonna say.
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)to defeat the monstrous evil that Trump represents...it is not an exaggeration to say our very future as a country depends on stopping Trump. I understand about loyalty to a candidate you believe in so I see where you are coming from. I hope you are right.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)in front of cameras over and over?
He's badmouthed Dems for years and is on a tour doing it again.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)hueymahl
(2,495 posts)Is if we keep going down the moderate republican lite path we are on.
I'm going to fight for the people. My party will hopefully do the right thing.
Bashing Bernie on this is beyond hypocritical. Achieving progressive goals is a good thing.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Fighting him tooth and nail is the people's fight and I say Bernie should not work with the Trump period. He has Sessions as AG. Flynn as NSA leader. Bannon too...we can not work with these people and maintain any sort of soul.
hueymahl
(2,495 posts)And places to advance a progressive agenda. They are not mutually exclusive.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)all three branches of government. They will trick Democrats and lie. Also when you have someone who is truly evil...seriously...he is a modern day Hitler. He wants to register Muslims and go to war with Iran...he wants to jail LGBTQ and end free speech...He will kill people...we can not give him squat...or he becomes normal...we normalize evil...nothing would be worth that. There is no coming back from that.
wasn't good enough for Bros
sfwriter
(3,032 posts)Looks smart to me. Now he is boxing Trump into his own rhetoric. New situation, new tactic.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Is just corrupt. Damn these rules for women politicians are hard to follow.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)just saying.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)I wouldn't trust tRump as far as I could trow a Mack Truck. The man's a pathological LIAR who lies while he's saying he's not lying, and you can't box that clown into anything because his supporters don't CARE and they won't hold him accountable for anything. And, even though he doesn't necessarily get along with every GOP'er, they'll get along enough to destroy Medicare, privatize Social Security/prisons, increase defense spending, gut federal agencies etc. We know he doesn't have a mandate, and we know he's also unhinged as well. Also, not sure if if there are enough Rethugs to totally stop this monster from doing many of the things he wants to do TO this country.
IF Bernie can pull this off (doubtful because tRump is insane), then kudos to him, because tRump is certifiable. IF he doesn't, then he'll just be another person thrown under tRump's big, ugly, racist, orange bus.
onecaliberal
(32,826 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,233 posts)![](/emoticons/thumbsup.gif)
TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)a racist jim crow kind of guy as Attorney General. There is no working with these monsters.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Well, they shouldn't be surprised when people point out what their vote actually meant.
Sorry berners who voted for Trump. You gonna have to deal with the impact of your vote.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)what the "people" voted for.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Let them do their dirty deeds all on their own...if Democrats don't fight, we are so screwed.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)What the actual FUCK!!!??
I can't take this shit anymore! I can't believe Bernie is rolling over for this horseshit! DAMN!
Fla Dem
(23,652 posts)$15 Minimum wage. This was one of the hammers he kept hitting Hillary over the head during the primaries, and the got the Dems to include it in his platform. What, now he folds like a house of cards? WHAT A HYPROCRITE. Another politician who'll say whatever to get elected.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)They had a primary. In the primary they were distinguishing themselves by their differences. This was only one issue among them. He was very correct in saying that Clinton was too cozy with Wall Street, at least as far as a lot of us are concerned. Why it isn't a problem for you, I'm not quite sure. But when the primaries were over he spoke eloquently on the merits of the platform Clinton adopted. She was the nominee and he leveraged his popularity to get a platform he could feel good about, and he supported it and her.
Trump is the next President, and it would be stupid and childish for Sanders to say he intends to ensure Trump gets nothing at all done in the White House. That shit only works for Repubs, who have a constituency that appreciates that childishness. Tell me we aren't like that.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I see no reason to give this snake oil salesman this respect. Far too many Dems are doing it.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-presidential-debate-fact-check/2016/10/trump-kaine-minimum-wage-229149
WhiteTara
(29,704 posts)$12.00 and he would never work with her unless it was $15.
otohara
(24,135 posts)like a rag doll.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)what Hillary got called repeatably ...on this board...for the CRIME of calling for a 12 dollar wage vs 15!
But now Bernie is good with 10 damn dollars from the Gropenfuhrer???
I am absolutely gobsmacked by that! Blindsided!!! WTF Bernie??????????????????????????????????????????
Thanks for the crumbs from your golden plate King Trump!!!!
WhiteTara
(29,704 posts)fuck us peons, especially those who believed so deeply in him they destroyed the one candidate who would actually herald change.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)There you go. No need to add anything further.
WhiteTara
(29,704 posts)eloquently expressed by Munch
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)![](http://www.edvardmunch.org/images/paintings/the-scream.jpg)
WhiteTara
(29,704 posts)the inside. The outside is blank with horror.
jmowreader
(50,555 posts)Shouldn't Trump be something like the Katzchengreifener?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)It's nice to see Bernie allied with Trump though.
BlueProgressive
(229 posts)her primary partisans explaining to us what a great thing that was.
If Bernie can get Trump to move toward us on OUR issues, like a higher minimum wage, more power to him-- it's not quite the same as becoming a Republican-enabler.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I agree with you on this. Obama was also faulted for trying to compromise with the GOP. The minimum wage must be increased. This sounds like excellent chess playing by Sanders.
mcar
(42,302 posts)by many of the same people who are now applauding Sanders.
Some of us are pointing out the double standard, or dare we say hypocrisy?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)President Obama was elected with a 365 electoral vote mandate. He had a strong position from which to negotiate. But he wasted far too much time and political energy looking for "GOP moderates" with whom he could work. In the end, he got nothing but obstruction, racist attacks, and birtherism directed at him.
Sanders on the other hand is dealing from a position of weakness.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)"Working with Republicans" to get things done is not the same as capitulating to Trump the rapist in chief. Nice try though.
BlueProgressive
(229 posts)The only "capitulations" I've seen so far happened on election night.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)when he should have none...he is a racist piece of crap who will appoint judges that will jail Gay people,women,minorities, protesters and protect "christian freedom". You can't work with such evil..look at what happened in Germany. Are we becoming a "the trains run on time kind of nation?" It could happen here.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)There is a difference between working with Congres when you are president and what Bernie is doing...he is a Senator...I consider it wrong ,wrong and wrong. It makes me sad to see Bernie do this. They would not even allow Obama to select a judge on his watch which was his constitutional right...at the very least all Democrats and Bernie too should refuse to do anything until Obama's court pick is confirmed...you can't appease the GOP and you have to fight. After 30 years in the Senate, Bernie should know this. I know we will have those in areas like WVA who do things like this but Bernie? He should not do it
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)This doesn't sit well with me!
He is changing tactics with the situation.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)I'm not impressed
mcar
(42,302 posts)I don't think this would be the response.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,731 posts)would ring through the hallowed halls of DU. Many flamefests would ensue.
Unbelievable.
mcar
(42,302 posts)Akin to all the hair on fire screeds about sellout Obama.
Some things will never change, apparently.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,731 posts)I forgot "spineless".
mcar
(42,302 posts)And who can forget: oligarchy, oligarchy, oligarchy!
greatauntoftriplets
(175,731 posts)Funny thing, a few months ago I heard a Republican whine about "oligarchy". Go figure.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)dsc
(52,155 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)![](/emoticons/puke.gif)
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)He is trying to help working people in the context of a Trump Presidency.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)He and his supporters went after those who said $12 and now he says $10 is OK.
Sorry but that makes him look like a hypocrite to me.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)They don't have the luxury of a philosophical discussion on this issue.
Bernie lives in the real world. As President, he would have used the bully pulpit to get $15.
As Senator, his job is to get the best deal that he can from a Trump administration.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)It was a sin for Hillary to be practical but it is a virtue for Sanders.
Doesn't fly with me.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Bernie would have been campaigning in the rust belt for higher wages and against the trade deals.
Hillary lost to Trump, so now Bernie has to work with the cards that he has been dealt.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Seems if he was for $15 once he should be for it now.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Bernie holding him to his words during the campaign.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... in the M$M or his base of voters
HRC base of supporters hate DPutin to core
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Bernie?
Another question: Who was she being practical TO?
Big business?
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)..disagreed with this position but she felt she was being practical.
Now Sanders is settling for $10 to be practical.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And a plan to fight for it. Unlike 15$, it was not a number pulled out of her ass.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)College kids, get their hopes up and get the votes and don't worry about lying to them.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)And that is the worst thing he could do.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)There are actual people with actual lives affected by this.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Nothing the Gop want is worth it...nothing...they kept Obama neutered for eight years...payback time or Dems will continue to screwed over.
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)You want to help working people...win the midterms...this is party suicide. What reason will people have to vote against Trump in the midterms?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Trump will give many, many reasons for people to vote against him in the next two years.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)things don't work out or Trump will take all credit and happy people who see Trump keeping his word (like Obama had such a chance) and elect GOP's during the midterm and re-elect Trump in 20. Bernie does not impress me as someone who can help us win.
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)we can do it
(12,182 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)![](/emoticons/puke.gif)
ThirdEye
(204 posts)He campaigned for her vigorously after she won the nomination. He worked his ass off for months! Now he's dealing with the reality in front of him.
He most certainly would have afforded Hillary the same courtesy.
athena
(4,187 posts)that he would fight Hillary every step of the way after she won the election?
He said that during the campaign. He said it when he should have been strongly on her side.
https://trofire.com/2016/10/27/bernie-sanders-vows-hold-hillary-accountable-progressives/
ThirdEye
(204 posts)Plus, he has said he'd fight Trump and hold him accountable. In that case he meant fight and accountable, not just accountable.
It is my opinion that he had to take this approach, whether he wanted to or not, otherwise the people who believed in him would have lost all faith. They needed to know that if they voted Hillary that he would hold her accountable for what she promised. That, in just my opinion, was the correct approach at the time.
LisaM
(27,803 posts)Last edited Fri Nov 18, 2016, 12:27 PM - Edit history (1)
First he tried to fight her at the convention and his supporters tried to disrupt it. Then he vanished from the campaign trail. He finally emerged at the end but too little, too late IMHO. Now he's everywhere.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)with the GOP than Democrats. And it shows why we lose.
Vinca
(50,267 posts)in the global economy. Nothing is going to change in the next 4 years . . . unless it changes for the worse.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)mcar
(42,302 posts)I await the Sanders supporters criticism of their candidate.
theglammistress
(348 posts)I'll probably get banned for that. Oh well.
I voted for him in the primary, because I wanted to show my support for both candidates. My husband voted for Hillary in the primary. We thought that would be fair. We live in Ohio.
We were very excited and enthusiastic to support Hillary but (correctly) thought Bernie would push the Democratic platform to the left. Fine.
Bernie stayed in the race too long and hurt Hillary. He ripped her over this minimum wage business and now he's willing to sell out and deal with Trump over $10 an hour? NO.
I'd rather the Dems right tooth and nail and keep rallying for $15.
Cobalt Violet
(9,905 posts)He knows Trump is going to do as much for the working class as the Third Way has done. A big fat nothing.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Many on DU have a let-'em-starve attitude, but who's going to make up the deficit? Georgia? Texas? LOL
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)My husband and I split our vote too. We watched in horror during the primary as Bernie railed against the Democratic Party and drove Hillary's favorable ratings down. He stayed too long and never conceded. He treated Hillary with disdain when it mattered. Oh, he tried when he realized Trump might get elected and I doubt he wanted a Trump presidency. But he helped create one and now is working with the devil in my opinion...no good will come of it. And it makes me dislike him all the more.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,233 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)Both told their followers exactly what they'd do and both are walking it all back...faster than I thought.
LMAO
ThirdEye
(204 posts)...after your candidate lost. She lost. He's still here, fortunately, trying his best to avoid a disaster with Trump. If he was working with Hillary as president, he would have been negotiating with someone that shared many fundamental principles. That's not the case, and it won't be. He has to work with what's in front of him. Plus, I think he's gambling Trump will not support even $10 and that can used against him later.
otohara
(24,135 posts)She lost and I don't care - I hope she can live the rest of her life quietly with her family/friends and be done with it all. Who fucking needs this 24/7 garbage and hate like this the bros created. https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+memes&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS694US694&espv=2&biw=1522&bih=664&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFoOXworHQAhVH92MKHY3UArAQ_AUIBigB
You all preferred her losing and so she did.
ThirdEye
(204 posts)and I promoted Hillary tirelessly with friends, family and extended connections for months.
I'm not a "bro."
Even if that had not been the case, I would never in a million years preferred things to turn out this way.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)to oust Republicans...no good can come from working with them...just ask Obama.
ThirdEye
(204 posts)I do agree with you, working with them doesn't work and we've had 8 years of that.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)That is what he was elected to do and it's a shame that they all can't grow up, figure it out and work together.
I do understand that it would feel good to block, block, block...but don't worry there is plenty of things that they'll have to get scrappy about. It also shows how once again yes we are the better party.
For all you folks crying how he hurt Clinton.....yes he did...that's kind of the point when you are trying to win a nomination. I do agree that it would of been nice had he bowed out earlier...not sure that would of even helped considering his supporter enthusiasm.
I applaud the Dem's saying they'll work with Trashpot because we are not outright ASSHOLES like many Republican representatives.
I know I don't feel like that aspect is fully recognized by the American people nor do they have disgust for these Repub blockers...I don't even think most of America realizes what these Pub's are even doing. People are just not paying that close attention and I know because I was one of them.
Erin_Petrovna
(13 posts)Our point is, Hillary was called everything but a child of god when she advocated for $12, and anyone supporting her on that position was blasted off the board. But now Sen. Sanders is getting plaudits for saying he'll work with Orangina on a $10 per hour minimum wage.
Smells like hypocrisy to me.
TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)Erin_Petrovna
(13 posts)It's still hypocritical. What difference does it make why he said it or advocated it? It allowed him to paint Hillary as an enemy to the working poor and now he's trying to play the good guy by working with Trump? Nah. Doesn't work for me.
TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)So if this is disappointing to all the die hard Bernie supporters I can understand but again let's be real here and not live in a realm we would like to inhabit but it's not reality.
Thank you.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Trump is not Romney or McCain...he is a fascist monster. And Bernie gives him cover by offering him jack shit. He shouldn't do it.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)I won't go along with that...any Dem or pol that works with Trump is dead to me.
Not about to let this get buried.
dae
(3,396 posts)for Hillary losing, so be it.
She lost the damn rust belt despite Sen. Sanders, & VP Biden working on her behalf. She lost it because of trade agreements, Wall Street ties, and consummate Washington/Globalist insider status.
Reading the article you attached to your OP shows Sen. Sanders reminding the PE of his pre-election populist messaging.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)He was not the entire reason Clinton lost but there is no doubt in my mind had he not run in the primary, she would be the president - elect. That being said, if Bernie was willing to fight the evil that Trump represents, I would support him. Sorry when we have a Jim Crow racist like sessions appointed as AG, there can be no working with these people. $10.00 and hour which we will never get. Trump will add a poison pill and then claim the Dems are against raising the minimum ...why he tried blah blah. We sell our very souls when we work with such evil.
dae
(3,396 posts)Hillary had many issues that made her a weak candidate, some of her own making, some of perception, and some from the 24/7 Repub hate machine.
FWIW, I supported Hillary after the convention.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)that my gay daughter may be facing prison because we lost. And we lost partly because of the primary. If Bernie had never run, Clinton would be president...Sessions would not be the AG and Flynn would not be the head of NSA. It is a shitshow...and we are pretty much fucked.
dae
(3,396 posts)"Bernie cost Hillary the election" doesn't make it true.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Had Bernie never run, we would have President Clinton...why he did this in such a crucial year for the courts etc...I will never understand.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)dae
(3,396 posts)her negatives were and she was beat by the only candidate with a lower approval rating than her.
She was viewed as "establishment" in a populist message driven election.
Why do you think Bernie caught on? It was his messaging.
VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)Despite y'know, a large percentage of us who pulled for Bernie shelving our disillusionment with Hillary to vote against Trump. But no one's really gonna focus on that, and you know it.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)![](/emoticons/eyes.gif)
mcar
(42,302 posts)But 10 is practical. Or something.
sfwriter
(3,032 posts)I expect more from Democrats. From Trump, who knows. If he can get ten, great.
Amaril
(1,267 posts)![](/emoticons/banghead.gif)
MyNameIsKhan
(2,205 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)leadership position.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)andym
(5,443 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Or put their hypocrisy on display for all.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Bernie is no fool.
otohara
(24,135 posts)love how there's only two recommends. (one is mine)
Whuuuut up with that?
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)![](/emoticons/cry.gif)
Sunny05
(865 posts)the posts about voters purged (in greater numbers than what trump won in some states), possible/probable vote tampering, and Comey. There are bigger enemies out there.
Having said that, I like both Hillary and Bernie. I don't know what's up w/ Bernie's negotiating w/ trump, but I suspect Bernie is doing his best with the situation. I don't know what was up w/ Hillary's campaign decisions, but I suspect she did her best w/ the situation.
In the meantime, here is what I do know. The real enemies are the cheats & bigots: Comey, voter suppressing conservatives, vote tampering criminals, racists, misogynists, anti-Semites, homophobes, trump, pence, ryan, priebus, giuliani, chaffetz, ....
My God, the list is exhausting even to start. I can't even think about criticizing Sanders and Clinton right now, b/c the real problems are just too overwhelming.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Sit in the corner and pout for four years? Bernie has said he'll work with Trump on good policy (like protecting SS and Medicare), and fight him on bad policy (like climate change "hoax" nonsense). If DU thinks Bernie will act like Republicans acted against Obama, they're in for a rude awakening.
GreenPartyVoter
(72,377 posts)![](/emoticons/shrug.gif)
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)Bernie promised the moon with $15/hr, and it turns out to be bullshit after all.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)This makes me sick.
Talk about a sell out. FUCK!
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)months -- over a year-- calling out the obvious fantasyland we observed from him! Holy crap.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)that Bernie is fighting for a...ten.dollar.wage.....when they excoriated Hillary on a daily basis for over a year and called her a corp/wall st whore because she supported a 12 dollar an hour wage??
Come and defend this BS now folks!!!
ThirdEye
(204 posts)the article said:
Sanders, speaking with reporters at a Christian Science Monitor sponsored breakfast, said he is ready to embrace Trump on a handful of campaign promises. Those include protecting Social Security and Medicare, negotiating for lower drug prices, raising the minimum wage to $10, imposing tariffs on companies that ship jobs overseas, and re-regulating Wall Street by re-establishing Glass-Steagall.
On these issues, Trump's promises put the President-elect closer to Sanders than to most Republican Party leaders. House Speaker Paul Ryan, for example, would not commit to passing Trump's tariff plan during a Sunday appearance on CNN's "State of the Union with Jake Tapper," saying that the solution is reforming the US tax code, "not tariffs, not trade wars."
There's no defending $10/hr vs $15/hr. It's clear from everything I've read that Bernie is either hoping he's wrong about Trump and can work with him, or that he can keep these issues on the table, on the TV, and in people's minds to help progressives in the years to come.
Not sure what he's supposed to do better?
If he had been elected president (he wasn't of course and didn't even make it to the GE), he would have faught for $15. IF Hillary had won, he'd have fought for $12. That's just politics.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)10 million times weekly on DU for her 12 dollar proposal.
Hypocrisy really sucks balls!
ThirdEye
(204 posts)and they could be 100% true.
My personal opinion is that Hillary is a corporate controlled, money corrupted, status quo politician. "bankster" "whore" and "third way", well those aren't terms I would ever use and those that do are wrong and just being emotional (I don't mean you, I mean those you are referring to).
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)God Bless ya, DU!
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)And all his and the GOP proposals reek.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Did the GOP ever work with Obama? Bernie should not give legitimacy to Trump...he should fight to win the midterms and ultimately 2020 and that won't happen if Dems give Trump and the GOP cover.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)in the Rust Belt, hmm? And don't say Texas or Georgia because I'll laugh and I'll laugh...
Ryan has a hard-on for Social Security and Medicare. I don't trust a word out of Trump's mouth, but IF he does the right thing on those two programs, I'll give him credit. And Bernie, for holding his feet to the fire, just as Obama asked us to do with him.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)He won't keep his promises...and we lost by less than 300,000 votes in three states...it is doable but not with Sanders running around making Trump look normal...if the Dems work with Trump, they will be blamed for what doesn't work and he will claim credit for anything that seems to work...bad bad idea.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Dems WILL work with Trump. Hell, even Obama said he wants Trump to succeed.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)And as for Texas and Georgia, we will be lucky if they exist after Trump tears up the Iran deal.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Sanders, speaking with reporters at a Christian Science Monitor sponsored breakfast, said he is ready to embrace Trump on a handful of campaign promises. Those include protecting Social Security and Medicare, negotiating for lower drug prices, raising the minimum wage to $10, imposing tariffs on companies that ship jobs overseas, and re-regulating Wall Street by re-establishing Glass-Steagall.
....
Sanders is calling on Trump to fire Steve Bannon, the controversial former Breitbart executive who was recently named chief strategist of the Trump White House.
Sanders is promising to fight Trump "tooth and nail" on climate change, an issue that Trump has dismissed as a "hoax."
The Vermont senator opposes Trump's tax policy, which would cut taxes for the top 1% of earners by $317,000 per year, according to the Tax Policy Center.
And Sanders said it would be "an outrage" that would "completely divide the country" if Trump were to make good on his promise to appoint a special prosecutor to "lock up" Clinton.
....
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/17/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-allies/index.html
The only adult in the room.
![](/emoticons/wink.gif)
mac56
(17,566 posts)But it looks like the civil war re-enactors are still raking through the coals of the primary.
Sheesh.
![](/emoticons/chuckle.gif)
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)I'm proud of you Bernie.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)FrenchieCat
(68,867 posts)isn't the point to negotiate down only if necessary? If we start at $10, by the time it's done the current minimum wage will go up by $.75 if we're lucky?
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Wasn't that the argument against Hillary? She advocated for $12 an hour and was excoriated here.
Like I said above, wow.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)On that, and a host of other issues of concern to financially strapped Americans, such as the cost of prescription drugs, Sanders said well find out soon enough if Trumps promises were sincere.
Our job is to hold him accountable, Sanders said, and we intend to do that.
....
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/monitor_breakfast/2016/1117/Sen.-Bernie-Sanders-It-s-time-for-Democratic-soul-searching
Since DU is all anti-CNN these days...
dae
(3,396 posts)regarding Sen. Sanders.
Response to SMC22307 (Reply #92)
Post removed
think
(11,641 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)He promised $15 and can't deliver. Gee, who didn't see that coming!
think
(11,641 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)But that's the point. Reality is a whole different ballgame than his grandstanding without being accountable for anything you say. Clinton was brutalized about how out of touch she was with the common worker when she proposed $12/hr -- and he's now willing to accept $10. Such hypocrisy!
I still wonder if he'll apologize to Clinton for excoriating her realistic approach. Reality.
think
(11,641 posts)He has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to apologize for.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)think
(11,641 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)so yeah, truth always makes me feel better even as we face the worst years of our lives.
think
(11,641 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)But Bernie needs to stop. He can not normalize the evil that is Trump...no Democrat should. I have already called every elected person in my area and told them...'working with Trump is a deal breaker; I will vote for someone else period'. We will not argue about minimum wage as he ships Muslims off to internment camps or sends LGBTQ to jail or the shitty therapy which kills them. We will not be Germany. So lend a hand Bernie/all Democrats, or get out of the way.
think
(11,641 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 19, 2016, 01:36 AM - Edit history (1)
for what is right and your insinuation that he'd trade a minimum wage increase for something like that is just insulting.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)LGBTQ and registering Muslims...Bernie ignores a great evil and give Trump cover.
think
(11,641 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)There is nothing that anyone did at the DNC...that made Bernie lose...he got less votes and that is that. The horror that Democrats don't really like Bernie who has criticized the Democrats for year while giving the GOP a pass mostly. He lost...I seriously wish he would retire...because he will hurt our cause of stopping Trump.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)but now that he is dealing with reality, he's willing to take $10 with no explanation as to why he mislead people.
Maybe he owes it to the American people to explain how his fantasy land proposals obviously wouldn't survive the real world.
think
(11,641 posts)but its better than $7.25 an hour, and we look forward to working with him to raise the minimum wage.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)![](/emoticons/eyes.gif)
In the meantime, he poisoned the minds of millions of young Americans by misleading them with his unrealistic promises. He also owes Clinton an apology for making her out to be an enemy of workers when she injected reality into his fantasyland grandstanding.
think
(11,641 posts)R B Garr
(16,950 posts)Hillary's realistic $12/hr proposal. He obviously wanted his fantasyland high ground. Now that he's faced with reality, it's a different story. He should explain to the young people how he misled them.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-minimum-wage_us_5714fc02e4b0060ccda3b8df
He has also said that we dont have to settle for incremental change, and our opinion is, a $12 minimum wage is incremental change.
think
(11,641 posts)What Bernie Sanders Wants From Donald Trump
CLARE FORAN NOV 17, 2016
~Snip~
Heres a partial transcript from a speech Sanders delivered on Wednesday evening in Washington, D.C., outlining an agenda that Democrats and Trump might agree upon:Mr. Trump said, unlike many Republicans, the vast majority of Republicans, he said that he will not cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Now, I believe we should expand Social Security but that is what he said, and pay attention to see what he now does. The question that will be resolved pretty quickly is whether or not everything that he was saying to the working families of this country was hypocrisy, was dishonest, or whether he was sincere. And we will find that out soon enough. But No. 1, no cuts, says Mr. Trump, to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
Mr. Trump says he wants to invest a trillion dollars in rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. That is a good sum of money, that is exactly what we should be doing, and we can create millions of good-paying jobs if we do that. Mr. Trump, thats what you said on the campaign trail, thats what we look forward to seeing from you.
I happen to believe that the federal minimum wage is a starvation wage, and that it should be raised to $15 dollars an hour, a living wage. Mr. Trump did not say that, but what he did say is we should raise the minimum wage to 10 bucks an hour. Not enough, but a start, and we will hold him to those words.
Mr. Trump said that Wall Street is dangerous, doing bad things, he wants to re-establish Glass-Steagall legislation. I look forward to working with him....
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/bernie-sanders-donald-trump/508007/
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)his promises. He maligned Hillary for the very thing he is now doing. Reality. Live with it. He was obviously misleading people with $15/hr. Maybe Hillary should have upped it to $20 and made it a real show for the easily misled!
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Don't hold your breath on that eh?
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)I remember Hillary getting beat up on this site for saying 12, so what the hell?
10 is the new 15 and the MF republicans and orange hitler will take credit for it too.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)something there.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)and tell their dumb ass voters that its the democrats fault for their miserable lives.
Now that those putrid scum are in control the damn democrats will give them victory after victory helping them all the way so the republicans can say, see only republicans are going to do anything for you deplorables!
wisteria
(19,581 posts)LP2K12
(885 posts)Because people on here are still blaming Sanders, the "brosocialists" and socialist dems for the loss...
You know, instead of coming together to work towards reorganizing our party and electing more dems.
Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)The same people who are 100% behind Charles Schumer's support of Trump's trillion dollar tax amnesty for offshore corporations throw tantrum when Bernie Sanders tries to get the party whose platform wants the minimum wage ABOLISHED ENTIRELY to raise it.
Why you ask? Because, because, because . . . oh yea, because minimum wage workers need to pay the price, NOT big corporate campaign contributors.
book_worm
(15,951 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And that's suddenly OK.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)otohara
(24,135 posts)Trump already said he'd be up for $10.00 minimum back in July - so in reality Bernard is just going along with what his new boss already said he'd be for
Oh Bernard - you sellout phony
Sanders: Trump would allow states to lower the minimum wage ...
politifact.com/...o.../bernie.../sanders-trump-would-allow-states-lower-minimum-wag/
Jul 26, 2016 - Trump's stance on the federal minimum wage it's currently $7.25 has been ... Bernie Sanders on Monday, July 25th, 2016 in a speech at the ...http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/26/bernie-s/sanders-trump-would-allow-states-lower-minimum-wag/
Donald Trump says he'd support $10 minimum wage - CNNPolitics.com
www.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/donald-trump-minimum-wage/
Jul 27, 2016 - Donald Trump supports setting the federal minimum wage at $10 an hour ... Bernie Sanders assailed Trump on Monday night at the Democratic ...http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/donald-trump-minimum-wage/
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)You think working with Hillary is the same as working with Donald racist Hitler Trump? Bernie should not do this...hasn't he done enough? Democrats need to refuse to work with Trump period...and fight to take back the Senate during the midterms. It is the only chance to save the courts...working with Trump will only hurt...us you can not climb into bed with such evil. We need to recognize Trump as the danger to our republic that he represents...this is not a 'normal' Republican'.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Bernie is indeed more willing to work with Trump...however, that is not my point. Trump is evil. Look at the people he chose for important positions...Flynn, Session etc...you can't play footies so to speak with such evil. Bernie gives Trump an aura of normalcy which should never happen. He is not a 'normal' Republican. He wants to register Muslims, jail gays, deport millions of the undocumented and of course this fun little gem end citizenship by birth in this country...He is the Hitler of our time. We can choose to help Trump keep the 'trains running on time' or we can band together and fight. Bernie needs to stop...he is making Trump seem like business as usual...we don't want to do that.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Bernie did not object to the idea of a woman being president.
Agreed that Trump is evil.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)Working with Trump who wants to register Muslims =evil. We don't do evil. Bernie should know this.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Everyone posting here is against misogyny, though.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)We need to stop Trump. Bernie should not work with a man who wants to register Muslims...that alone should stop him. It is akin to working with Hitler...not just Bernie...all Democrats...no Democrat will get my vote or any help if they work with Trump.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)We wouldn't gain anything by anathemizing Bernie.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)As you know, I believe had Bernie not run, we would have President Clinton (the election would not have been close enough to steal). That being said, it seems to many of us that Bernie should fight Republicans and not join with them to give us privatized roads and utilities which is what the infrastructure bill would do. Also, private companies would be used for the work. Sorry, Bernie should fight Republicans as hard as he fought Democrats and Hillary Clinton. Why doesn't he?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Treating Bernie as untrustworthy helps nothing. We don't need to go back treating the left as the party treated it in the Nineties.
And we would not have done better if there had been no debate and no passion in the primaries. We can't win when our presentation to the country is bland.
Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)He fights the Dems and ignores the right.
Maven
(10,533 posts)Now you're gonna lend him your supposed working class bona fides, after you said the Democratic nominee was a corporate shill?
think
(11,641 posts)Maven
(10,533 posts)Nothing would be more harmful to the working class.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)a (possible) infrastructure bill would be harmful to the working class?
Maven
(10,533 posts)Trump will use it as a PR move to show working class he's trying to help and the bad old GOP and Dem establishment wouldn't let it happen. He'll use Bernie the same way he exploited discontent among Bernie supporters who couldn't accept that he lost and blamed a "rigged system".
Bernie isn't helping and neither are you. But of course, as usual, it's all about him.
Oh, and here's an obligatory back at ya.
Response to Maven (Reply #272)
Post removed
Maven
(10,533 posts)Is essentially just a tax giveaway to construction companies and doesn't directly fund any infrastructure projects. As opposed HRC, whose infrastructure plan would have directly funded new roads, bridges etc. But she's an awful CorporateDem right?
Speaking of which, did you vote for her?
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)plans to do to win back the 60+ Rust Belt electoral votes Hillary lost. Or explain where else in the country those votes be made up going forward.
I'll read it. But you seem to be assuming I approve of Trump's plan. What I do approve of is getting Americans to work. It remains to be seen whether Congressional Dems will roll over, or act like a true opposition party.
I voted, and my Northern Virginia blue bubble carried Virginia. You're welcome.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Trump has made it clear he plans to "partner with the private sector" i.e. sell the commons. Whatever Sanders thought he was accomplishing the optics and language of his speech are utterly horrible.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Demsrule86
(68,552 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)I'll wait
JCMach1
(27,556 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)I don't think Bernie has a problem with incrementalism, or was ever so impractical that he wasn't capable of making compromises. Answer me this. After he lost the primary, did Sanders or did he not, get behind the democratic platform and also campaign for Clinton?
The problem is that interests of the poor and working class have been given short shrift by the democratic establishment, under Hillary and the DLC at large for a long time. That isn't incrementalism. It's regression. We are very much where we are because the democrats stopped having the tools to court the middle class, because that would have meant speaking of class warfare, and their corporate overlords would not have that, not that they themselves believe in it.
so since we wouldn't tell the people the effing truth about why they have so much financial insecurity, they bought the lie that came with the most red meat, and until we change that, they are going to continue to pin their hopes on crazy nationalistic racist tripe.
wordpix
(18,652 posts)It's impossible to live on $10/hr. minus taxes, Soc. Sec. and Medicare "entitlements" withdrawn, etc. People making $10/hr. are taking home $7-8/hr. and need a second job just to get by or they're bringing in only $60/day.
Let Trump live on that.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)What president did you think he was going to have to work with?
LexVegas
(6,059 posts)Uponthegears
(1,499 posts)by losing to an orange orangutan, Hillary loyalists now want to show their disappointment by punishing minimum wage workers
NICE
lunasun
(21,646 posts)sickening
ecstatic
(32,685 posts)Excellent strategy, Burnie!
tandem5
(2,072 posts)jmowreader
(50,555 posts)During the election, $14.99 per hour was a Sin Against God And Society. Now he's willing to accept $10?