Bernie Sanders wistful about a missed matchup against Trump: 'I wish to God I'd had the opportunity'

[FarCenter]

Sen. Bernie Sanders said Tuesday that he wishes he had the chance to run against President-elect Donald Trump.

In an interview on "Conan," the Vermont senator said that although he was unsure if he would've defeated Trump, early hypothetical head-to-head matchups showed him far ahead.

"What the polling showed that early on was all the polls nationally and statewide, I was beating him by much large margins, much more than Secretary Clinton, but you know, then you go through a three-month campaign," Sanders told host Conan O'Brien.

"All I can tell you Conan: I wish to God I'd had the opportunity. I would've loved to have run against him," he added.

http://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-trump-wish-run2016-11

[NastyRiffraff]

1. Trump didn't get a landslide

not even close. Against Bernie, he would very likely have been in landslide territory.

[NWCorona]

5. A landslide for Bernie but we will never know now.

[NastyRiffraff]

6. No way.

Bernie would have lost big. The GOP had an oppo file on him that would have sunk him.

[Ace Rothstein]

7. We had an oppo file on Trump that should have sunk him.

People didn't really care about it.

[enterthetoad]

142. Sanders is an issues guy

No mud slinging necessary

[JudyM]

12. So you say.

[NWCorona]

25. Like I said, we will never know now.

[yodermon]

50. Wait, Trump can brag about grabbing p***y without penalty, but some "file" on Bernie was

supposed to sink him?





I know, cuba, castro, sandanistas, alleged rape-fantasy-poem, *yawn*, it all P A L E S in comparison to gross metric SHitLOAD of SHIT that should have sunk Trump.

So no.

[CajunBlazer]

67. Apparently Trump sails in a stouter boat than Bernie

which is not as easily sunk.

Question: Which group of people has the lowest approval rate in this country? Evidently it is it isn't multi-billionaire real estate developers.

Hint: Bernie himself prides himself in being a member of this category.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

130. Riiiight.

[Cha]

112. BS couldn't even win the Primary against Hillary.. We had the Best MOst qualified

candidate running for the DEMOCRATIC Nomination.

That's why the m$m, Comey, The Russian hackers, Voter Purge, Voter Supporession, drumpfuck.. threw everything at her. Not to mention the greens who facilitated getting a climate change denier in the oval.

And, Hillary WON without any opp research on BS.. whereas he and the m$m were disingenuously throwing everything at her.

She still beat him.

drumpfucks held back their opp on BS.. they would have thrown the fucking book at him.

Woulda Shoulda Coulda, BS.

Riff Hillary got 65 Million Votes and 2.5 more than drumpfuck.... We are the Majority Let's fucking act like it,

[sheshe2]

114. Boom....

[Cha]

116. ..

smh, she Mahalo~

[sheshe2]

117. I know.

Your sig pic makes me cry now. Obama had to shake dons hand. That man is not worthy to shine his shoes.

I am so sad.

[Cha]

118. Ewww.. his little filthy hand..

I like your sig, too. We shall overcome, damnit!

[sheshe2]

119. Love him.

I want him to stay. Cha.

[greatauntoftriplets]

152. Me too.

[GummyBearz]

122. She beat him badly

In the deep south. States that would never go for her in the GE. A point that was brought up many times during the primary.

He beat her in states like Michigan and Wisconsin. States she couldn't carry vs. Donald Fing Trump. I'm so glad she got all those voters in texas, alabama, mississippi, georgia in the primary. It really served us well in the GE... oh wait, no, it screwed us over bad. Because Bernie would have won every single state she won in the GE, but he also would have won some rust belt states. It is kind of important in hindsight, yea?

A postmortem discussion is meant to learn from mistakes. Hillary was a big freaking mistake. The ultimate political insider running in the ultimate political outsider election. Getting many of her primary votes from states that will be RED in the GE. If you don't want to learn from the mistake, we are doomed to repeat it.

[Cha]

128. BS couldn't even Win the Primary.. His message didn't resonate enough with the

Primary Voters. That's on him. He couldn't get out of the gate. Hillary Won in the North too and California and Nevada.

Woulda Should Coulda, BS.

Hillary has 65 Million Votes and 2,5 Million more than drumpfuck .. We are the Majority.. only those with an agenda are trying to bring us down.

Hillary won without any oppo research on BS and in spite of him and the m$m throwing all kinds of shit @ her... drumpfucks would have thrown the fucking book at him.

And, the greens helped get a fucking climate change denier in the WH.. hope they're fucking smug.

[metroins]

2. He had his chance

He could've done much more campaigning on behalf of Clinton.

Whether Clinton wanted it or not is a different story.

[JudyM]

13. That's a false trope being perpetuated by some of her supporters. Check his schedule.

He was on the road for her far more than she worked for Obama. It may not have gotten splashy MSM coverage, but check his schedule and you will see.

[Hoyt]

29. I agree, Sanders campaigned hard for her. Now Sanders supporters, that's a different story.

[JudyM]

63. Hey. Sanders was screwed by the primary process, let's not go there. The vast majority of us voted

for her, in spite of those facts having been exposed. If that's not allegiance to the party, I don't know what is.

(Any Sanders bashers responding to my post: Pls don't feel slighted if I don't respond to your vituperative retorts, I may not see them, so don't bother )

[Hoyt]

69. Maybe they did vote, but they called her a crook and everything else Trump used against her.

I'm not bashing Sanders, just those supporters who bashed Clinton during the primary and after.

[pangaia]

78. Same thing happens in every primary in every election on 'both' sides.

[Hoyt]

79. So, doesn't make it right and I think it hurt us. Sanders' supporters who continued criticizing

Last edited Fri Dec 2, 2016, 09:00 AM - Edit history (1)

Clinton after the convention, aren't a "both sides do it" situation. Sorry.

[Cha]

120. It hurt our Democratic chances a lot.. "establishment" was drilled

so much into their heads.. too many couldn't get past that in the GE so they facilitated a Climate Change denier into the WH.

Hoyt.

[Plucketeer]

124. I'm giving monies to these recount efforts

If there were a flip that denied Herr Trump the White House, I sure better see the platform that she and Bernie worked out, engaged! I got screwed out of $2K because we didn't know the fix was in before the gates swung open.

[EffieBlack]

97. AFTER he spent a year calling her a corrupt establishment shill . . .

Too little too late.

[GummyBearz]

123. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it ..

is what?

[JHan]

126. It was a dishonest characterization and unfair..

period.

[EffieBlack]

143. Period

And it provided a perfect playbook for Trump to pick up and run with because, after all "it's not partisan attack. Even DEMOCRATS are saying that about her . . ."

Nice going, Bernie.

[JudyM]

154. Or nice going, Hillary. It's the substance of her actions that were of importance, after all.

But you will no doubt continue to blame the political fallout effects of her actions on Sanders.

[Plucketeer]

127. Bernie's problem

was that he never had the heroics of scurrying from his seat in Coach and running for the terminal with his head down because of artillery whizzing overhead.

[JudyM]

138. Lol! That *was* his problem.

[mythology]

90. He worked damned hard for Clinton

Clinton didn't lose because of Sanders not campaigning enough.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

132. Worked his ass off for Hillary... with little appreciation as you can see here.

[BobbyDrake]

102. He had a book to promote instead, i.e. cashing in the same way he criticizes others for.

Do as he says, not as he does, naturally.

[sheshe2]

115. ;)

Yup.

[JudyM]

139. Um, wrong. He doesn't criticize anyone for making money. He criticizes corruption.

Big difference. Stunning that you can't see it.

[BobbyDrake]

150. "He criticizes corruption without evidence." There, I fixed that for you.

[JudyM]

155. You can't see what you choose not to look at.

[BobbyDrake]

156. Link to all the evidence then, please. I'll wait.

I can't wait to see the results.

[JudyM]

157. Apparently you haven't been reading this board through the past year, you have some catching

up to do... or maybe just not seeing the facts that have been presented over and over. Clearly not worth the time to re-present it. Be as blind as you like. It doesn't matter now, anyway, for obvious reasons. Hopefully we will learn and put forth a good candidate in 4 years.

[BobbyDrake]

158. "Clearly not worth the time to re-present it" means you have nothing. As expected.

It should have been ridiculously simple for you to post a link to something proving corruption, but you couldn't. Which is exactly how I knew this would play out. Scuttle away now with your conspiracy theories and garbage allegations.

[JudyM]

159. Just not worth the time, plenty there if you open your eyes. Moving on now...

[Cha]

113. There was too much damage from the primary.. I know lots

of BS fans who voted for stein bc they couldn't get over all the accusations BS made in the primary.

Like it was drilled into their heads. They helped facilitate a climate change denier into the WH because they couldn't see past fucking "establishment".

BS couldn't even win the primary and Hillary did no oppo research on him.. and she still won with all the crap he and the M$M threw at her.

She's got 65 Million Votes so far and 2.5 more than drumpfuck.. WE're the Majority.. let's fucking act like it.

metrions

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

131. Bernie did what he could considering the candidate.

[ucrdem]

3. He could have been a contender . . .

[Kentonio]

17. Is that violin for the American people who now have to face 4 years of Trump?

[NWCorona]

4. Here's the interview. Another great one

[hrmjustin]

8. We have no idea what would have happened.

Good arguments can be made to say he could have won or lost.

[NWCorona]

26. I totally agree with that. Nothing is for certain.

[Txbluedog]

9. What's the point

Sen Sanders was not the nominee, if he wants the chance he can run again in 2020

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

133. Ohh he will, count on it! Count on Bernie!

The revoltion is FAR from over!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

[DeminPennswoods]

10. Is Bernie always about Bernie?

Not trying to incite Bernie supporters here, but the one thing that really struck me at the DNC was how - I don't know - selfish, I guess, Bernie was at the convention. Clinton bent over backwards to embrace him and his policies. An entire day and night of the 3 day convention was spent focusing on Bernie. The formal nomination even was set up for him to have the spotlight at the end. I just don't get why he needs to keep putting his ego on display.

[seaglass]

15. Yep. n/t

[Kentonio]

18. Clinton did not 'bend over backwards to embrace him'

That's ridiculous. She fought a pretty nasty campaign against him, and reluctantly added small traces of his platform when she was forced to do so to try and pull half the party back towards her.

As for is it always about him, he was asked a question by an interviewer, what exactly did you expect him to say?

[JHan]

30. So Sanders is blameless and pure as the driven snow?

Sanders is a politician.

I have my criticisms of Hillary but it amazes me how Bernie has become a saint in all this.

He framed Clinton as corrupt , he was dishonest in how he characterized her. He stayed in the race longer than he should have , doing further damage and the party almost damn near split because of it..All of his attacks fit perfectly into Trump's narrative of "Crooked Hillary". She was dragged to the level of Donald Trump and we got the false equivocations.

[Kentonio]

54. Ah that 'debating' technique..

Did I say Sanders is blameless and pure as the driven snow? Did I say he was a saint?

He's an extremely admirable man, but I have no desire to put him on a massive pedestal. Then again the only person being put on a pedestal recently is Hillary, who her adoring supporters insist didn't actually lose the election and is completely blameless for anything that happened.

If you thought Bernie was rough in the primary incidentally, then you really haven't seen that many primaries.

[JHan]

57. lol

..

If you think his late entrance into the DNC , joining the party a year before a General Election, and his vilification of people who sincerely disagreed with his economic positions wasn't damaging, we didn't follow the same election cycle. And he stayed on even when it was clear he lost - yes that did do damage. Clinton was framed as the "corrupt establishment" which fit Trump's narratives perfectly because the GOP , being the anti-government party only when it suits them, laser focused on the Obama Administration and all those who represented it - including Hillary.


Trump used Sander's own dishonest critiques of Clinton against Her. He could have been more strategic, he could have joined the party years ago, he could have demonstrated loyalty and he did not. He could have observed Obama's strategy in 2008 and how he raised his profile in the party from 2004, so that by 2008 he was able to outfox Clinton with the delegates. Instead he barged in, and set up a war against whoever, and his supporters joined in on the action. Yes all this happened.

he didn't bother with the emails because he wanted to strike at the heart of HRC's record, which was more damaging, so he vilified her for wall street speeches, the most damaging "excerpts" wasn't even all that damaging, he misrepresented her views on trade - suddenly anyone who ever supported a trade deal was the enemy and part of the corrupt establishment - I could go on and on with his autocratism which turned me off. Then there was the fiasco of him suing the DNC.

It should have come as a surprise to no one hillary won the primaries.

[DeminPennswoods]

71. She did for sure

Personally, I think Hillary is a lot more liberal/progressive than people realize. It's not an act, but more of an evolution over time and experience. I don't think it was particularly hard for her to include some of Sanders' positions in the Dem platform and wholeheartedly support them. He should have happily embraced progress on ideas he's championed for many years, but I guess he's like a lot of crusaders where the good is the enemy of the perfect. Nader and Naderites of 2000 were the same way.

I don't have a problem with him honestly answering a question. I do think the GOP would have played the socialist/big govt card hot and heavy on him. I'm not sure how well Bernie would've handled that line of attack. I think the election might have been interesting, though, since both Bernie and Trump are kind of blunt, scorched earth orators and they appealed to the same kind of economically frightened voters.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

134. Reluctantly so... which helps further splain Hillary's loss.

[justhanginon]

151. Half the party? Surely you jest. Check the primary numbers.

[lunamagica]

39. 1000

[leftofcool]

41. Yes

[R B Garr]

48. Thank you! The only way he will ever be believable is when he admits he

stayed too long in a primary that he had lost early on and had no path to victory. I've yet to see him reflect back with anything but what gratifies his ego.

Even Ted Cruz knew when to get out on the GOP side. He swore he would contest their convention, but then he got out and shut up in a timely manner as do most politicians.

Your post was a perfect description of what we all saw with regard to Bernie's ego. Such a shame that he was allowed a platform to cause such divisiveness to no useful end.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

135. The way Hillary stayed too long in the 2008 primary?

[Lotusflower70]

81. I didnt see that at all

They were trying to shout over his supporters and minimize their presence. They weren't letting some of them in and trying to drown them out and cover them with the huge Hillary signs. I thought it was a petty, ugly mess all around.

[GummyBearz]

125. When the debate moderator asked him about her emails...

And he came to her defense and refused to answer, was that him being selfish?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

137. Bernie went very easy on Hillary IMHO... coulda woulda shoulda done things differently.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

149. Yes

[CajunBlazer]

11. Ahhh......poor baby

That would have been the strangest match up in history. And all that work that the Republicans spent putting together that 2 foot stack of opposition research on Bernie wouldn't have been wasted. I wonder what Trump would have done with that information?

But he couldn't win the primary where Hillary rarely attacked him personally, so we will never know, will we?

[NWCorona]

32. I don't think he's crying at all. He was asked a question and answered it.

While I'm sure he wishes that he got the chance to run against trump. A lot of people feel the same way but the truth is Bernie hand is stronger than its ever been.


"But he couldn't win the primary where Hillary rarely attacked him personally"

Hillary had her surrogates do that for her. Then there was the DNCleaks.

But I do agree that we will never know what would have happened and I'm finally ok with that.

[CajunBlazer]

44. Sure he crying...

The proper answer to that question was: Since I was defeated in the primaries, I name isn't on the ballot of the general election, so we will never know how well I might have fared. But sure I would have like to go up against Trump."

Surely you don't believe that the opposition research that the Republicans had on Bernie was anything like the mild stuff he might have experienced during the primaries, do you?

[Demsrule86]

62. Bernie if he is a progressive...like the rest of us now has no hand

Trump won. The GOP have three branches of government...we have nothing...and the fact you believe Bernie has any sort of hand...is astonishing...he will go on TV and run his mouth... and then do exactly nothing...which I might add is what he has always done. I have very little interest in anything he has to say too...I firmly believe he should never have run...he did nothing but divide and cause us to lose...and is still at it ...it seems.

[NWCorona]

110. Astonishing? It's obvious that you are still sour.

I hate to tell you but it wasn't Bernie that lost the election for Hillary.

[Demsrule86]

144. sour?

Oh no...I am bitter about this election...we all have to work together and move on...but in my opinion, Sanders cost us the election...and many of us warned that would happen ...as he stayed in the primary when he had no chance, refused to concede and arranged for protests at the convention. He criticized her and the Democratic party relentlessly. Trump used Bernie's words on a regular basis. I dislike Sanders and always will. That being said, it is time to move on and salvage what little we can of decades of hard-won progressive policy...that we are likely to lose..including but not limited to the 40 hour work day, public schools, social security/medicare/Medicaid,the ACA,child labor laws, the clean air act,gay marriage and civil rights...and those who thought...this sort of thing would lead to a liberal takeover will learn the hard way that never happens after a Democratic rout...Trump is a fascist Reagan...we have elected fascist Reagan. And there will be hell to pay.

[NWCorona]

147. Well I think the party needed some criticism but I can understand the frustration

I do strongly agree with this tho

"we all have to work together and move on"

I think after what ever happens after the inauguration we will start to rebuild and hopefully become stronger.

[JCanete]

74. Yeah, not sure exactly what that strawman shit is about -"poor baby." Should he have said,

nope, I am so thankful I didn't have to match up against the terrible mister Trump? By the way, I agree that Sanders chances were close to nil--the media would have tanked him at every opportunity because they DO NOT want a damned socialist in office, not to mention the voter purging and electioneering that would have effected Sanders as much as Clinton. But your focus on the effectiveness of the Trump machine is strange to me, and had a whole lot less to do with him winning than the media's attempt to make it a horse race, and decades of work done to tarnish Hillary's reputation as a corrupt "uber liberal" that wasn't just going to go away. People's very identities were tied to their hatred of Clinton.

And there were ways Sanders could have gone after Trump that Clinton could never have done because of her own history and ties to Wall Street and so much problematic policy. He also wasn't under as much pressure to play nice in the GE to avoid the horror of a woman dressing down a male in too emasculating a fashion. It would have been a different race, likely with the same results, but interesting.

[Maven]

14. He would have been fucking demolished.

So sick of his egotistical self-serving bullshit. He created a huge rift in the party, then walked away from it and did little to nothing to heal the divide and prevent this disaster. All he wants to do is stand outside the circle and throw rhetorical bombs, not do the hard work to rebuild our party. Because he isn't a Democrat.

[Calculating]

16. Polls all showed Bernie doing better against Trump than Hillary.

Who knows? I certainly wouldn't say he would have got demolished.

[Madam45for2923]

28. Yeah! Polls! LOL!

Good one!

[Quixote1818]

103. Polls also showed Hillary beating Sanders in the rust belt by huge amounts

and Sanders won there. So yes the polls were wrong because they underestimated Trump and Sanders.

[Madam45for2923]

108. Are you talking polls before or after vetting Bernie?

[CajunBlazer]

46. Polls taken while the Republicans were trying to get him nominated?

Yea, those wouldn't change a bit after Trump started in on him.

[JudyM]

70. Your assumption is far less certain than those polls.

[uponit7771]

95. Cowardly polls, who won't show the effects of voter suppression

[CajunBlazer]

47. No, if you haven't noticed he was and still is and independent.

He got little done as a Senator precisely because he seldom worked closely with either his Democratic or Republican colleagues and was equally critical of both.

[Kentonio]

55. Why this repeated lie about him not getting much done as a senator?

We both know it's innaccurate and that he worked tirelessly on bill amendments, so why do you keep repeating it?

[CajunBlazer]

98. Maybe it's articles like this one from the Washington Post...

...which in courage that narrative:

The Democratic primary has seen a lot of discussion about Bernie Sanders’s ability, or lack thereof, to get things done in Congress. Former House member Barney Frank claimed that “Bernie Sanders has been in Congress for 25 years with little to show for it in terms of his accomplishments.” Sen. Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.) was asked by Politico to name pieces of legislation Sanders has significantly influenced:

“Um,” she said, pausing for a full eight seconds while thinking, “I’m sure I could. In terms of the things that he talks the most about, is when he was chair of the Veterans Affairs committee. But he actually compromised on a whole heck of a lot. Back in … it’s not coming to my mind right now.”

Hardly a ringing endorsement.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/04/07/hillary-clinton-was-a-more-effective-lawmaker-than-bernie-sanders/?utm_term=.ceacf13e6927

Then you can google "Bernie Sander's accomplishment's where the writers have done their best to make him look like he has accomplished a lot and all you get is a lot of fluff.

[Barack_America]

80. If you hadn't noticed, most Washington "Democrats" aren't Democrats anymore.

Bernie may not carry the label, but he carries the ideals far better than most of them.

[CajunBlazer]

99. I think he upholds Socialist Party ideal even better (n/t)

[lapucelle]

53. Sanders has made it clear that he is no longer a democrat,

even if the party did invent a junior level leadership position for him to assuage his ego.

[Kentonio]

56. He said he was elected as an independent and would serve as one. I don't have any problem with that.

Long before he ever ran for president or officially joined he was still a better Democrat than half the party.

[Demsrule86]

59. He is not a Democrat by choice.

As for writing off the entire white working class...I have not seen Democrats calling for that here. Of course, we are not going to throw the other parts of our base such as women, minorities, Muslims, undocumented etc under the bus in order to do that as Bernie seemed to call for in his identity politics speech.

[Kentonio]

65. You haven't looked very hard then.

He didn't say that incidentally, but then you already know that.

[Demsrule86]

92. He went back to being an independent. He switched to run for president only.

What am I missing?

[alarimer]

68. I agree

I'm pretty much done with the Bernie-bashing.

I am so sick of the idea that it is somebody's "turn" to be the nominee. It isn't. It should never be given to anyone on a silver platter.

Unless the Democrats lose the corporate shills, I'm done with them. The impulse is going to be to double down on the rightward trajectory, on triangulation in a misguided notion to attract disaffected Republicans.

A full-throated defense of social programs, higher taxes for the rich and protection for the environment is what I'm looking for at minimum if they expect to get my vote next time.

[liquid diamond]

24. Truth

[NWCorona]

33. Assumes facts not in evidence.

[JudyM]

140. That never seems to matter with this vacuous argument. Based on nothing but oft asserted.

[kacekwl]

35. I didn't see any in the Democratic party

doing the hard work to rebuild. Tell me I'm wrong.

[R B Garr]

121. Exactly, he poisoned the minds of many people and

was very dishonest and manipulative in his rhetoric. There was no way he could deliver on any of his fantasyland proposals -- just look at him now accepting $10 hr minimum wage when he excoriated Clinton for her $12 hr proposal. That's the kind of dishonesty he allowed to excite people while maligning Clinton for being more realistic.

He was not an honest broker.

It's a rotten shame he was allowed to cause such divisiveness in our party.

And thanks to his unproveable accusations which Trump thanked him for, we now have a true madman. It occurred to me that Kanye West was recently put on a 5150 psych hold for doing similar things as Donald -- rambling insults and crazy talk with a microphone on stage. Crazy talk in public gets other people locked up, but not Donald. Listening to him tonight at his rub-it-in-your-face rally just shows again how insane he is.

This is now the second election that a third party/outsider has influenced to no good end. Gore was a real loss to Democrats and progressives. It's pretty obvious now that living in a Bush/Trump world is preferable to them.

[geek tragedy]

19. he's being honest, and he did concede that a 3 month campaign can change a lot.

I'd also point out that polls proved pretty damn unreliable this time around.

[NWCorona]

36. Polls will never be held in the same light. And that's fine by me

As I think they can foster complacency.

[mythology]

91. The general election polls were off by about 1 or 2%

They were predicting a 3 to 4 percent Clinton win in the popular vote. She won by about 2%.

Outside of a handful of primary states, the polls weren't that inaccurate, and if looked at in the scope of the entire primary process, Sanders' win in Michigan should have been expected based on the general demographic trend of the primaries.

[Paladin]

22. HILLARY'S EMAILS! BENGHAZI! BIG-MONEY SPEAKING FEES! BILL CLINTON'S BLOWJOBS!

Thanks so much, Bernie, for helping this country dodge such a catastrophically-flawed candidate. Nothin' but good times for the next four years, right?

[Cobalt Violet]

34. It's not Bernie's fault we didn't win.

[Demsrule86]

60. Yes it is his fault had he not run in the primary...President Clinton.

[JudyM]

64. And why should we all have lined up behind her?

I was planning to vote for her until I thought more deeply about it. Realizing she would mobilize the conservatives to get off their butts on Election Day, I took a closer look at what Sanders was saying, and had been saying for decades, and saw that I was more aligned with his far more progressive policies anyway. Glad I had the choice to vote for someone I thought was more progressive and had a better chance to win - maybe just my opinion (and all the polls, as it turned out) but it wouldn't even have been democratic to just install her without a primary.

[Demsrule86]

94. Yes we she have all lined up behind Clinton and Bernie should not have run in such

a crucial election year...and you voted for Bernie in the Primary...how wonderful for you really. However, what is not wonderful is that we lost the election and now have four years of watching the GOP dismantle everything progressive...attained by blood and sweat since Roosevelt...wow what an opportunity to vote for someone who lost and who in my opinion cost us the election. He criticized Hillary and the Democratic Party, he stayed too long, never conceded and sent protestors to our convention...yes his campaign arranged it. I don't know if after this we can unite this party enough to stop Trump and win future elections. I have kids...it is a sad legacy to leave them...no public education, no social security or Medicare, no food stamps or Medicaid, no abortion if you are raped, many forms of birth control illegal, no minimum wage, dirty water, no protection against the banks, people rounded up like cattle, open season on minorities...the list goes on and on...my girls and I are going to have an IUD party; it last five years...we already have to go to New York thanks to Kasich but we can still get protection... we may lose even contraception in the next couple of years. I don't think people understand even now what losing this election meant. How exciting to have voted for Bernie. Hold onto the good feeling during the shitshow that is our county now if you can.

[JudyM]

100. I agree with your feelings about where we are now but as you might guess, hold the view that the

"fault" of the loss (beyond Fox and tRump's mesmerizing lies) sits on the shoulders of the ones who ran her campaign, and on Clinton, herself, for acting in a way that actively disengaged voters, including those who were so turned off by the way her campaign was run that they chose not to vote for her.

Sanders exhorted us in no uncertain terms to vote for her, and he was on the road for her giving scores of speeches to this effect. Check his schedule. The points he raised in the primaries were truthful and valid points for discussion in selecting our candidate. Her primary win in no way reflected who was the better candidate for the general, and was, as the facts have since revealed, not so ethically achieved by her team/the DNC. This back room self-dealing reaffirmed the very concerns many had, so for those who were most concerned about her ethics and judgment, I'm sorry, but that put the nails in the coffin, sending them away from her camp to never come back.. It seems many of her supporters won't look this in the eye and prefer to cast blame on Sanders instead.

So many of us reject the suggestion that Sanders shouldn't have fought as hard as he did; if it had been a level playing field in the primary there's a good chance we wouldn't be looking aghast at the specter of tRump now. We will never know, but we do know what went down, on our side.

[Demsrule86]

104. That is really not true.

I saw the handwriting on the wall in the latter primary...it was too bitter and divisive and Bernie did not concede in a timely fashion...it divided the party and cost us the election...I had hoped that looking at polls I was wrong...but the polls were. I was sent on vacation during a heated exchange about Bernie and his supporters attacking the person who had won the Democratic Primary...I wish it had gone better. Now we are basically screwed.

[JudyM]

105. Ok, well you have to blame who you have to blame.

[Act_of_Reparation]

153. There are several things that cost Democrats the election this year.

The primaries probably weren't one of them.

Disinterest in the candidates predated the general election. Five million Democrats who came out to vote in the 2008 primaries didn't bother showing up in 2016.

[robbob]

42. One of the first things Bernie said at the debates

Was that he, and the American people, were sick and tired of hearing about the emails.

But of course, you've forgotten that, haven't you?

[TCJ70]

51. The only one of those that applies to him...

...is the speaking fees one. She didn't do herself any favors regarding it, either. Why play stupid games like "I'll release them when everyone else does!" when people already have trust issues with you? It just adds to the shadiness.

[Sunlei]

23. Thank you Senator Sanders & Hillary Clinton. We, the popular vote winners need you more than ever.

Much Love! and that love includes the Obama family and all the other Ds who gave their best vs the beast.

[hueymahl]

27. No way to know, but guess what?

We know for sure Hillary lost, the DNC lost and we failed at congressional and state levels. Hard to do worse than that. He might have won since he appealed strongly to the independent and disaffected votes that went to Trump.

At any rate, it is fun to dream.

[Cobalt Violet]

31. I wish he did too! There's always 2020!

Go Bernie go! Best candidate I"ve seen in my lifetime!

[grossproffit]

40. He'll be almost 80 by then.

[lunamagica]

37. Oh, spare me!

What a sour, self-centered whiner

As if the nation would elect a Marxist who praised Castro during the height of the cold war era. trump would have demolish him!

Remember, Sanders, the you has your chance, and Hillary received almost 4 million more votes than you.

And don't forget that it was STOLEN. Hillary WON. There's no reason to think that trump would have not used his dirty tricks that he you!

[JaneQPublic]

38. He was never in the line of fire.

As Newsweek reporter Kurt Eichenwald noted, "...no one ever really ran an aggressive campaign against Sanders. I saw the GOP oppo book. He would have been wrecked."

https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/796264779136598016

Neither Clinton nor Trump ever used available ammo against Bernie, as they didn't want to alienate his supporters, whom they hoped to win over. So, of course Sanders' polling remained pristine when matched against Trump. Bernie never got his cherry popped by either the muckraking media or other candidates.

[JCanete]

75. well that was convincing. That as a very Trump-worthy "Trust me, I saw it." Fuck that noise.

He should put up or shut up.

I'm pretty sure Brock and Clinton would have used anything they could find, and I think they run a pretty capable team. If that was all there was, then it just came down to the media, and we know the media can make an accusation into hay for a week, so it has far less to do with Sanders and more to do with whether they would have wanted to destroy him. I'm pretty sure they would have, but Eichenwald can bite me for that tweet.

And the party did do things that alienated sanders supporters, so did Clinton. They alienated supporters because they were shady and underhanded, not because they were true. If they had true shit, why did they go with so much bullshit?

[JaneQPublic]

82. And Bernie's staff hacked into the DNC computer system.

Yet Hillary and everyone else made nice because they didn't want to piss off the Berniacs. And what did they get for it? A bunch of spoiled brats at the convention parading around with tape over their mouths, yet taking off the tape whenever they wanted to shout down a speaker onstage.

This poor victim routine is really getting old.

[JCanete]

84. What "victim" routine. This was about whether Bernie could have won, and whether

juggernaut trump and his brilliant messaging team were going to take Sanders down. The point of my post was to respond to that smirking tweet asking people to take a leap of faith, and your assertion that Clinton held back, which is absurd. If she refused to attack him on philosophical grounds, for instance to call him a socialist or a commie, sure, she couldn't do that directly without really bad optics. That's not holding back. That's just not talking like a repub. If Trump wanted to go that route, well we' d see just how far that went in a year that he was cozying up to leaders like Putin. Socialist isn't the national boogie man it once was.

But I'll repeat it, I don't think that Sanders would have won. I'm that cynical of our media and the forces at play to know there would have been a fairly concerted effort to destroy him, and those things usually work.

[SaschaHM]

43. Votes (AA votes in his case) matter more than polls, Bernie.

Maybe you will learn that before you run again in 2020.

[lumberjack_jeff]

77. That Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama Clinton firewall...

...really came through for us in the general.

[SaschaHM]

85. Do I really have to tell your racist ass that black voters live in other states?

[lumberjack_jeff]

87. No, you don't "really need to tell my racist ass" this...

... But every time Sanders supporters pointed out that Clinton's dependence on those states for her nomination wasn't a good guarantee of general election success, you called us racists too.
So apparently treating "the south" as shorthand for black people is only something Clinton supporters can do.

[SaschaHM]

89. The only person doing that here is you.

Bernie lost AA voters nationwide, even in states that he won. That's what cost him the nomination. There just weren't enough caucuses to offset his pitiful numbers among AA voters. You can fight the primary all you want, but reducing AA votes and AA democrats to just 3 states is ill informed, ill advised, and frankly offensive to the millions of AA voters in the democratic coalition.

[uponit7771]

107. +1

[Me.]

45. Earth To Bernie

Oppo calling

[FrenchieCat]

49. Seriously?

[Garrett78]

52. If hypothetical match-up polls meant something, Dukakis (and others) would have become POTUS.

Eichenwald of Newsweek pointed out that the opposition research on Sanders likely would have been devastating.

[Demsrule86]

58. Trump won a very close election...I guess you have to win

a primary first hey Bernie? Don't feel bad; it is my feeling that had you run you would have lost badly. Of course, it really is rather a cheap shot to go on television shows and say stuff like this right? Personally, I have a different take, had you not run in the primary and beat Clinton and the Democrats up for months...particularly on trade, we might have had President Clinton and Sen. Feingold. She had a chance...you not so much.

[frazzled]

61. Stop it

He didn't get the chance because 3 million fewer people voted for him in the primaries. He LOST. Get over it. He would have been decimated in the general, based on that paltry support alone. The Democrats and the Clinton campaign treated him with kid gloves. They could have hit him hard with a ton of stuff (which they never did, because they didn't have to: they were far ahead all the time). But the Republicans would have. Here's just a part of what Kurt Eichenwald describes from their oppo research, which consisted of a book "2-feet thick":

I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers.

Here are a few tastes of what was in store for Sanders, straight out of the Republican playbook: He thinks rape is A-OK. In 1972, when he was 31, Sanders wrote a fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men. Yes, there is an explanation for it—a long, complicated one, just like the one that would make clear why the Clinton emails story was nonsense. And we all know how well that worked out.

Then there’s the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, and that he stole electricity from a neighbor after failing to pay his bills, and that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont’s nuclear waste to a poor Hispanic community in Texas, where it could be dumped. You can just see the words “environmental racist” on Republican billboards. And if you can’t, I already did. They were in the Republican opposition research book as a proposal on how to frame the nuclear waste issue.

Also on the list: Sanders violated campaign finance laws, criticized Clinton for supporting the 1994 crime bill that he voted for, and he voted against the Amber Alert system. His pitch for universal health care would have been used against him too, since it was tried in his home state of Vermont and collapsed due to excessive costs. Worst of all, the Republicans also had video of Sanders at a 1985 rally thrown by the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua where half a million people chanted, “Here, there, everywhere/the Yankee will die,’’ while President Daniel Ortega condemned “state terrorism” by America. Sanders said, on camera, supporting the Sandinistas was “patriotic.”

http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

Let me at 'em, let me at 'em! I'da beat him bloody. What ego, for someone who lost the primary by 12 points.

[Starry Messenger]

66. Ugh, he's such a whiner.

[Joe941]

72. Bernie would have won - I'm sure of it.

[kebob]

73. And How Reliable Were The Polls?

I saw you on Conan touting those that showed you beating Trump.

[shawn703]

76. Should have nominated Sanders

The DNC put their thumb on the scales for a widely disliked politician, with the "we know what's best for you" attitude. Now we all have to suffer.

[Lotusflower70]

83. What could have been

I wish he would have had the chance to showdown against Trump.

[DemonGoddess]

88. He'd have been

chewed up and spit out by the reich wing smear machine, early, early on.

[Cobalt Violet]

93. Um, no that was Hillary

[DemonGoddess]

101. and yet the popular vote

belies your notion

[EffieBlack]

96. Oh, please

Nothing like the guy who never got in the ring insisting that he would have knocked out the guy who won the bout if only . . .

[JesterCS]

106. *looks at url* nope doesn't say ClintonUnderground.

Although must be nice to get checks from Hillarys campaign

[okieinpain]

109. ill admit i was wrong about hillary and bernie

i thought she would pull out all the stops, but i think her campaign really started to believe they couldn't lose to trump.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

129. You and me both Bernie!

[standingtall]

141. I think either Clinton or Sanders coud have

Last edited Fri Dec 2, 2016, 03:19 AM - Edit history (2)

and should've won. If either sides followers decided to honor the parties nominee.
I'm sure by and large Sanders supporters voted for Hilary. However I still think there was a significant number of Sanders supporters that either didn't vote. Voted for a 3rd party candidate. Left the Presidential vote blank or even worse voted for Trump out of spite for Sanders losing the primary. Those folks as far as I'm concerned are not fit to be called progressive or liberals. They were only given lip service to progressive/liberal ideas. They demonstrated that they don't really care about issues. Hilary was a lot closer to Sanders than Trump was therefore not voting or voting for anyone other than the democratic nominee was a vote for Trump. They might as well be republicans. Finally the old phrase that Ralph Nader has been spouting for the last 20 years needs to be put to bed. God has never ran for President and never will. So to be real about it every Presidential election has been a choice between the lesser of two evils and everyone in the future will be too. For some the Hilary was not the candidate of their fantasies so now Trump will be the President of their reality and the rest of ours too. Thanks a lot!

If your a democrat you support the democratic you support the democratic nominee end of story.
Republicans have figured this out which is why regardless of what they think of their candidate they are still far less likely to break ranks than democrats are during elections an I'm sick of it.

As far as Clinton unfavorable ratings.Which was largely manufactured. That could've been defended if the Bernie or bust people decided to unite with and fight with us during the general election and on election day. Instead they chose to fight against us. Didn't really want to fight against republicans when it really mattered though.

[kentuck]

145. I don't think so.

Bernie escaped attacks almost for his entire campaign. We don't know how he would have stood up or responded to attacks from either side? He was never tested under fire. I doubt that anyone could have done better under these circumstances.

[Guilded Lilly]

146. It is, ultimately, what it is and we all can spew whatever gets...

us through the day to take away the still intensely painful and brain numbing outcome.

Bigger picture perspective:

We "the people" have a lot to answer for about the frightening state of our country but we "the democrats/progressives/liberals" are once again shouldering all the responsibility and accountability for it and shredding each other apart in the process because we are the only ones who give a damn ABOUT the collective "we the people".

Accountability and responsibility are completely foreign to "them". And they don't give a damn about people and souls over power and things. Republicans and conservatives and alt right blah blah blah COUNT on us to bleed from the heart so that their cold blooded machines of greed and hate can prevail. And we never disappoint them. Our humanity is their strongest weapon against us.
It is much harder to win the more humane your goals are.

Why? That is the ultimate struggle of politics. People and souls vs. Power and heartlessness.
Caring vs NOT.

Smaller perspective:

Both Sanders and Clinton have political egos.
Right there you have part of the problem and strength in both candidates. That can't be changed, fixed or avoided. It is elemental.

Both are supremely more qualified, sane and experienced than the oafish clod jagoff who is unfit for humane consumption. Qualified, experienced and sane is consummately dull compared to crazed reality show mentality of the lunatic, graceless, rampantly immature freak show appeal to millions of citizens just trying everyday to survive "dull" without a soundtrack and network exposure.

Both used the Democratic Party to run.
One is a declared Democrat.
One isn't.
It mattered.
That divided the ranks from the get go. Nothing was strongly United and while the opposition was wildly decisive and chaotic, they still had that meaner-assed bloodless machine and circus quality fascination that totally appealed to the incompetent and shameful media they so easily and infuriatingly controlled...with ease. (Ratings mattered, Howard Beal)

Both are senior citizens. Especially compared to the ever present hipness and youthful attitude and wit of Obama.
There are very few young, highly experienced humans. Old isn't particularly desirable. Our young have been raised on flash and entitlement, glam quotient and the bling factor. Sanders had none and Clinton didn't have the correct "cool"

One is a man.
One is a woman.
The expectations connected to that difference are wildly imbalanced and still hideously wrong.
Clinton is part of the gender which is quintessentially still vilified, demeaned, disrespected, feared, attacked, patronized and victimized on such an ignoramous level that she has to be twice as...anything...to even be considered close to "equal" enough as a male doing the exact same things. Twice as condemned for it as well.
Sanders is not part of that gender.
Yes, it made a difference over and above everything else.

Both had backers with a crapload of passion. Passion can lead to serious contempt.
Sanders did not have enough support to win the primaries.
Clinton did.
Contempt entered the equation, weakening the needed unity.
Both candidates used what they did to win and they would do it again.

The opposition was driven and fiercely devoted to take EITHER of them down using the most truthless, despicable fear mongering and tapping into the basest of human flaws.

The basest is what won and THAT is what we "the people" on this side should be fighting against.