Are people underestimating the 'No More Bushes or Clintons' sentiment this election?

[NRQ891]

When it was clear that both Jeb and Hillary were running, the most common thing I heard was 'No more Bushes or Clintons', far more than 'I hate Hillary'

Even Barbara Bush, Jeb's own mother said "He's by far the best qualified man, but no. I really don't,” she said when asked if her son, the former Florida governor, will make a White House bid.

“I think it's a great country. There are a lot of great families, and it's not just four families or whatever. There are other people out there that are very qualified and we've had enough Bushes,” she said.

what the heck does THAT tell you, when one of their OWN MOTHER'S says 'enough'?

The only reason why Jeb didn't get the hate Hillary did, is because his plane never left the ground. From day one, it was clear the the performance per dollar spent, with the largest warchest, was doomed. He was considered too insignificant, to hate. The worst insult of all. (or 'Low Energy', as one candidate put it)

I think this was a huge factor in this election, one more thing dragging Hillary down. If it had been just Jeb or Hillary, but not both, I think the sentiment wouldn't have been nearly as bad - but the combination of the 2 sounded like no choice at all to many.

Kind of like the line from the Blues Brothers Movie 'what kind of music do you usually have here?'

[vi5]

1. I would say it was a big factor...

I know more than a few people who felt that way.

[ismnotwasm]

2. Are you equating the Democrats and Republicans?

[Ken Burch]

4. It's about names and personalities, not the parties as such.

n/t.

[ismnotwasm]

8. Parties as such?

Oh my.

[Ken Burch]

12. In other words, it doesn't equate the parties.

The Bush and Clinton families are not synonymous with the Republican and Democratic Parties. The parties don't begin and end with those two groups of DNA sharers.

[ismnotwasm]

21. Hmm

[NRQ891]

5. Im talking about the public perception of what at one point in time was a likely choice of finalists

and the reaction to the two as a set was very negative

[ismnotwasm]

10. Yeah you keep saying that

[NRQ891]

11. because perhaps it's ummmm......TRUE?

if the party adopts a verdict on this election of 'we did nothing wrong, it's because anyone who didn't love our candidate is a bigot, they're bad and we hate them', that might make people feel better, but the party is DOOMED

[ismnotwasm]

20. Yeah, you keep saying that

[guillaumeb]

3. Interesting, but as I recall, Clinton actually won the popular vote.

And with all the speculation about why white males, or Southern and Western voters, or millennials, did not vote in greater numbers, no one seems to be researching why Clinton won more popular votes than did Trump.

An interesting omission. Almost as if the actual Clinton voters do not count.

[Hekate]

7. Plus 1000000000000 .......

[guillaumeb]

13. Thanks. I cannot count that high, but I did just post the following separately:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512640383

[nini]

22. Thank you.. you'd think she was beat by that many votes they way they talk here

It's so freaking annoying to see all these posts about how she 'lost' when we all know the vote tallies AND the suspicious results in those states being looked at.

The bashing here is beyond disgusting.

[Exilednight]

41. Do we decide who wins the World Series or Super Bowl by how many fans they have?

[guillaumeb]

43. By accepting the meme that Clinton "lost", this does two negative things.

First, it allows the GOP to frame this as Democrats losing and the GOP winning, which paves the way for talk of a GOP mandate.

Second, it diverts the Democrats from realizing that their economic message appealed to voters. The endless pursuit of the mythical "Reagan Democrat" pushes the Democratic Party farther to the right and this rightward drift is not motivating the 41% who do not vote.

[sfwriter]

33. They don't.

Because she lost the electoral college, the exact voters an counties she lost take on greater weight. Those are largely white and either rust belt or rural.

She could have won the popular vote by an additional 4 million votes in California and Oregon, and those voters wouldn't have counted either. Yay electoral college eh?

[JI7]

6. no they are underestimating bigotry

[JI7]

9. Clinton got more votes, so no.

[NRQ891]

15. got more votes, but still lost to the most unpopular president-elect in history

even unpopular among some who voted for him, statistically, that's certain, as his unfavorable percentage was higher that the percent that didn't vote for him

[sfwriter]

34. It amazes me that people who hated him voted for him.

It was as if they said "I am powerless to get what I want. Which of these candidates presents the biggest middle finger I can raise?"

By that rational, I guess a Trump vote makes sense. And woe to us all for it.

[Buzz cook]

14. Thanks for the false equivelence

The Bush family can trace its political roots back to Franklin Pierce. Grandpa Bush was a senator and Bush I was in politics most of his life. Bush II and Jeb were groomed for office from birth and got massive backing from family connections.

Both Clintons were self made people. Bill was raised in relative poverty and Hillary in a middle class home. They both got higher education through their own merits and got into office in spite of massive opposition from entrenched power.

There is a huge media campaign against the Clintons and one of the lies that people on the left have bought into is that the two families are just alike.

[NRQ891]

16. there was nothing false about reality of the perception

I didn't MAKE the equivalence, I observed the perception of equivalence that others held. This isn't propaganda, it's a post mortem

[Buzz cook]

17. No you didn't make it

You just repeated and reinforced it.

when people believe lies it behooves us to point out that they are lies.

[TheCowsCameHome]

18. It was a factor,

...among other things.

[AngryAmish]

19. Please clap.

[mtnsnake]

23. It was a big factor but a lot of people just don't like to admit it

or they just didn't get out enough to hear so many people, mostly Republicans but some Democrats, too, who were saying that right from the start.

[geek tragedy]

24. Certainly didn't help but part of the general

problem of certain segments craving change and our candidate being the consummate insider.

Pretty much 2000 redux.

[BobbyDrake]

25. Absolutely not, because it's a bullshit narrative anyway.

Hillary Clinton is not a Clinton by blood. There's no "dynasty" with the Clintons as there is with the Bushes. No one in their marriage is the "2nd generation" of anyone else.

It's just another part of the sexist meme against Clinton that she's only famous because of her husband. Not true.

[blm]

26. Are you underestimating Russia's interference with this election by overestimating other factors?

You seem intent on keeping Russia's propaganda out of the mix. To me, anyway.

[NRQ891]

27. ok, you've outed me - I'm KGB

I knew I'd be discovered sooner or later

[SMC22307]

31. ...

The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming!

[sfwriter]

35. He seems to be bringing up a single facet...

It's a real one. I have a friend that vowed to neve vote for a Democrat after Clinton for the shift right on trade, the war on drugs and welfare reform. He then voted for Obama, followed by Stein.

Her name was definitely it for him.

[JI7]

37. well he seems stupid because based on their record Obama is much more pro free trade

Hillary as senator voted against some trade deals.

[blm]

39. It IS a real one, and pales in comparison to swing state vote suppression,

4 decades of a worsening media climate, Russia's unprecedented interference that misdirected so many (including media) and FBI's unprecedented interference that media hyped and flat out misdirected the remaining undecided voters.

And still HRC is tallying far more votes than Trump.

There are lots of facets to everything, including posts here at DU.

[Garrett78]

28. Bill Clinton had a very high approval rating when he left office, which was nearly 16 years ago.

And Clinton is only a Clinton by marriage. Plus, Jeb Bush would have been the 3rd Bush president, and his brother's horrific reign is still easily remembered.

So, it's apples and oranges. Sure, some may have said they opposed Clinton (and Jeb) because they were anti-dynasty, but I don't think that really had much impact when it came down to the election last month.

[EffieBlack]

29. I always felt this argument was a bit of a setup for Hillary Clinton

Hillary was criticized years ago when she first entered politics for what people called her lack of experience. Her years as a lawyer and advocate and First Lady were treated as worthless and irrelevant and it was held against her that she didn't have the RIGHT experience for national office, i.e., governor, senator, etc. Of course, this is the trap set for women (and minorities) all the time. White men make the rules and decide what constitutes relevant experience - and that experience just HAPPENS to be limited to the kinds of jobs that, until recently, were largely off-limits to anyone but white men.

So, Hillary did the right thing. She built up her experience in those fields that the white guys said were critical - she became a senator, ran for president and then served as Secretary of State. She jumped through the hoops everyone told her were absolutely mandatory for her to deserve to be president. And when she did, she was accused of being "too Establishment" to merit election to the presidency.

I call bullshit on this goalpost moving double standard.

[sfwriter]

30. I think that sentiment hurt her EXACTLY where she lost the EC.

Rust belters remember NAFTA.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. PEOPLE WERE DEMANDING HILLARY CLINTON AS OUR NOMINEE! THAT'S WHY SHE WAS VIRTUALLY THE ONLY CHOICE

or something.

[Cha]

36. Whatever.. now you have fucking trump.. hope they're smug about that

because of a fucking meme.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. I don't know who thinks political dynasties are a good idea.

They seem more suited for monarchies.

[TrishaJ]

40. I believe this is true because

both Bush and Clinton represented the status quo and dynasty politics. Voters wanted change; and this eventually played out in the election. Unfortunately, "NO BUSH and NO CLINTON" resulted in a completely unqualified no-nothing narcissist getting elected.

[NRQ891]

42. I think it's where Trump saw his opportunity

I seriously question whether Trump would have run, if it hadn't been BOTH Jeb and Hillary in this election - I think he saw that as a sure thing - he saw Jeb and Hillary as bowling pins in this political climate