People who believe the Clintons are running a child sex ring out of a pizza place.

[TwilightZone]

Are those the people we're supposed to be reaching out to? Trying to understand? Pandering to?

Or maybe it's people who believe Hillary personally started ISIS.

Or the people who want 12 million people deported the fourth week of January.

Or the people who want to round up all 3+ million American Muslims and put them in camps. Or worse.

Or the people who refer to Hillary Clinton as "that bitch" on another "progressive" website and get 60 recommends.

Or "progressives" who openly brag that they voted for Trump to "send a message". A message no one will ever understand or care about. Or even know about.

Or the people who repost every Breitbart, Newsmax, and Fox News story they can find on social media.

Is that our target audience?

I'm being ridiculous, of course, but the blanket statements that we are going to our doom because we refuse to listen to Trump voters en masse and that their sole reasons for voting for Trump are economic or anti-establishment are no less ridiculous.

We know why many Trump voters voted for Trump, and frankly, we're not going to convince a pretty big chunk of them of anything.

We no doubt have many things to learn from this election and need to continually look at our views and our message and refine them, as we always have - defining "Democrat" is an ever-changing (and rarely easy) process. But, we also need to ensure that we continue to fight for everyone and for our principles and not knee-jerk react based on faulty assumptions made after a particularly emotional loss.

[atreides1]

1. Those are the ones we need to reach out to!!!

Along with those that think shooting a black man is fine, torture should be used on enemy combatants, women should have limited rights, any religion other then Christianity isn't a real religion, and gay people should be in camps!

Reaching out to these people is worse then putting your hand into a cesspool, in my opinion!

[HassleCat]

2. Be selective.

Find Trump voters who are not crazy, not bigots, not consumed by hate. There are some out there, certainly enough to tip an election.

[Garrett78]

3. It'd probably be easier to identify and then engage those who don't vote.

And to do more rural outreach in purple states like Obama did. There are rural Democrats (not all of whom are white) in states like IA, MI and PA. I suspect some simply weren't willing to vote for Clinton, while others would have had her campaign done more outreach.

The vast majority of Trump supporters are unreachable. Candidates, like any of us, have a limited amount of time and energy. We have to use that time and energy as efficiently as possible.

[radius777]

9. Exactly. Secular white working class can be reached,

the types who are more pragmatic, the types who voted for Bill and Obama. These people aren't necessarily liberal, but they aren't really conservative either, more swing voter types.

However, rural conservatives are mostly unreachable, brainwashed by Fox, Breitbart etc, they live in a far-right bubble.

[Generator]

15. I'm afraid they are unreachable too

Just found out a good friend of the family (like family) voted for Trump. Wife is a Dem. He's almost always voted Republican, comes from a big military family but not ever military himself. He's well educated, affluent, and he hated Trump. But somehow the enemy is Clinton? I don't understand their minds and they are unreachable. Any intelligent person that voted for this scumbag is unreachable by definition. Republicon before humanity. Like it's engraved on their souls. And then their souls are gone.

[Garrett78]

41. I think Dems who didn't vote out of hatred for Clinton and some who have never voted can...

...be convinced to vote in 2018 and 2020. And I think Obama was right to suggest the Clinton campaign should have done more outreach to rural areas (where not everyone is white or Republican) of purple states.

But there's no doubt that a large percentage of the electorate is unreachable.

[hamsterjill]

6. Yeah, I've been looking since November 8th.

Still haven't found any in my neck of the woods. But good luck with that.

When the lesser-of-the-crazy of them finally come to what little sense they have and realize what they've done, then we need to welcome them back with open arms. I don't want to do that, but we will need to do that.

[RonniePudding]

13. I'd peg that number at 3 to 8 percent of Trump voters

[TwilightZone]

36. As others have noted, the time might be better spent increasing turnout.

I think we have the numbers. The trick is increasing and maintaining turnout.

Also, by refining our message, we may regain some of the more reasonable Trump voters. Hard to tell how many of those there are.

We may also regain some of them by default once they figure out they've been sold out by Trump.

[Kathy M]

40. Agree .....

[raging moderate]

4. Remember, most people with under $50K income voted Democratic.

I gather it is true of people of all races. THESE are the folks who need our help. And they have earned our loyalty. They work long hard hours, and even their few private hours are full of labor and worry. If they could see through Trump, then what was hindering the people who voted for him?

[TwilightZone]

7. Agreed.

Exit polls show that Clinton was preferred by the majority who thought the economy was issue #1 in the swing states and she was preferred by lower-income voters, as you noted. That angle has been rather beaten to death here and elsewhere.

As for seeing through him - I agree; I have a hard time understanding how anyone could vote for Trump. There's really no excuse, especially among people on the left. "I don't like Hillary" or "both sides are bad" just doesn't do it for me.

The only real alternative to Hillary was a lying sociopath. Not a difficult decision, that.

[Lucky Luciano]

11. True for low income whites too? Curious. nt

[TwilightZone]

14. Not sure

The exit poll data I've seen isn't split up by race and income, only by one or the other.

NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/elections/exit-poll-analysis.html?action=click&contentCollection=Election%202016

Hillary's lead in $50k and lower voters overall was 52/41. Trump won whites overall by 21%. If I had to guess, based on the demographic numbers, Trump probably won lower-income whites, though I haven't seen numbers to confirm that.

[JI7]

33. if their top issue was economics they voted clinton

But there were many whose top issue was immigration and terrorism and they went for trump.

[scscholar]

5. The emails didn't make sense...

but they make more sense than this conclusion!

[jalan48]

8. But, is there a private server in the pizza place?

That's what I want to know!!

[TwilightZone]

10. Somewhat unintentionally...

I didn't even mention the e-mails.

I was so focused on the silly conspiracy theories I've been reading about today, I kind of forgot the biggie. lol

This was somewhat inspired by the "Where Trump gets his news" thread. And Facebook.

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8333359

[LiberalLovinLug]

12. "and not knee-jerk react based on faulty assumptions made after a particularly emotional loss"

I agree with your over all premise, and I don't think most of the Trumpsters even want to be conciliatory anyways so its a waste of time. It just gives them an opportunity to ROTFL at us. This type of person is ugly as a loser and even uglier as a winner.

But you should take your own advice from the quote I made of your OP. For one, it is not "progressives" that would brag about or ever even vote for Trump. Those are anarchists and libertarians. If they actually call themselves progressives then they are mislabeling themselves. Stop perpetrating this myth that anything more than a tiny fraction of misguided Bernie supporters that identify as progressives, want a Trump presidency much less voted for him.

After Bernie lost California, and the nail was being pounded into the coffin, it was a punch in the gut and we wanted a place to vent and commiserate. This place shut us out so many went seeking the first place that offered us free speech and place that was open to criticize the DNC and how Bernie lost. Many, including myself did not switch there voluntarily. This is where I wanted to stay and talk but we were basically censored.

But that place was also infiltrated with all manner of anarchists and libertarians and even a few downright Trump supporters. Because it was/is such an open sight. To cherry pick the more abusive anarchists on there and their wish to burn down the house is not an accurate picture. The much maligned Manny himself admitted in an OP that he had voted for Hillary as well. Most all of ex-Bernie backers switched and respected his request to back Hillary....because it was the only path to defeating Trump at that point! That is the reality. OPs like this that lump idiots that pretend or may even actually think they are progressive but are really anarchists with people that are proud to be called progressives and liberals who are always fighting for the opposite of what Trump stands for, is not helping us all band together.

[TwilightZone]

16. That's why I put "progressives" in quotes.

That's how they identify themselves, as you're probably aware. I don't think they're actually progressives. I hope not, anyway. They certainly don't fit any definition of progressive I might come up with.

As you noted, we can hope that their numbers are quite small, but I don't think anyone really knows.

If you're talking about JPR, free speech was never on the agenda there -- don't kid yourself. They are just as restrictive of speech, if not more so, as DU has ever been - it's simply taken a different form. I always found it ironic that a couple of the founders incessantly complained about DU being an echo chamber, then they went off and created their own.

Sorry, but we're just going to have to disagree about JPR. I think the place is a cesspool.

[LiberalLovinLug]

35. Fair enough

I haven't visited JPR for awhile now. I'm happy here especially it seems that a few more of the prodigal progressives have come back. I really think it was a dumb move to, for all intents and purposes, banish the more vocal Bernie supporters and Clinton critics a month before even an official candidate was chosen. It only further divided the left with the feeling that some of us were being kicked when we were down. JPR was a retreat and frankly a breath of fresh air to not have to look over your shoulder whenever you posted....despite having to wade through the Alex Jones George Soros conspiracy posts.

[Gore1FL]

17. The false news believers are their own subset.

We are going to our doom by demanding purges of progressive allies. I said so months ago I even got a post hidden over it. Everyone was convinced we didn't need the extra votes then.

[Demsrule86]

19. a bit over the top...no one demanded a purge of anyone.

You have to understand those at JPR and other sites who call Hillary horrible names and don't mind Trump who is a disaster of epic proportions are not and never will be progressive. I have no desire to chase after such awful folks...who will take their ball and go home if they don't get whatever it is they think they want.

[Gore1FL]

44. Labeling, judging, and outcasting worked well in 2016. Let's do it again in 2018! nt

[TwilightZone]

28. Well, they sure showed us!

If people voted based on anonymous posts on a website that doesn't remotely reflect the real world, they should probably shuffle their priorities. Or find a hobby.

And if people voted for Trump or Jill Stein just to spite anonymous, random people on an internet website, they should probably have their heads examined.

[Gore1FL]

45. Not just DU.

Though DU demonstrated in-part what is wrong with the current Democratic Party.

Any Democrat that voted Trump or Stein, is more likely, a voter who needed to be talked to and convinced, not shunned or ridiculed.

You call them a person who needs their head examined if you want. I prefer to call them a vote we can capture simply by demonstrating a reasonable amount of respect.

[billh58]

18. Plus 1000! n/t

[IronLionZion]

20. We need our people to turn out in higher numbers

and many of the moderates who voted for "change" or "something different" probably didn't expect him to actually win.

We should be able to win rust belt voters back through better messaging, listening to them, making it obvious that we're not just coastal elites looking down on them, etc.

Thinking that all or even most of them are the alt-right is the first mistake. Those are the extremists, not the mainstream. Democrats are still the majority in this country. And we are only getting more diverse, not less. We are infinitely more diverse than Germany was in the 1930's in case you're worried about that.

[TwilightZone]

22. Turnout is certainly key.

It's a factor in why we lost this time, among many others.

Trump basically had to have a bunch of different things go right, and pretty much all of them happened. Convince the swing states that he's some kind of populist. Demographic swings in lower incomes and minorities. Lower turnout because of apathy or "both sides are bad"ism. Protest votes. Women (inexplicably, in my view) voting for him in numbers similar to Romney. A perfect storm of suck.

I don't think most Trump supporters are alt-right, but I think the number who were driven by fear or bigotry is higher than some would like to believe. Exit polls show him winning on immigration and terrorism. Latinos and Muslims, as it were. There are a lot of other reasons why he won, and we risk missing useful information if we assume any region or demographic was lost for simplistic reasons. Though, there are certainly definable patterns.

I also agree that we're winning the long-term demographic war. That's partly why it took an unlikely series of events - and probably a healthy dose of voter suppression - for Trump to win.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

21. People who believe things like that likely have mental health needs

So yes, they need to be reached out to and offered the help they need.

[TwilightZone]

23. I'm sure telling them they have mental health problems will help.

More likely, they're just like most people and are open to suggestion, peer pressure, the Big Lie, and propaganda.

Trump sold them a bill of goods. That doesn't mean they're all mentally ill. It does, however, mean they have poor judgment and reasoning skills. Welcome to life. PT Barnum comes to mind.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

32. Bizarre Conspiracy Theories are popular among people with Paranoid Personality Disorder

It is what it is...

[TwilightZone]

34. So, you don't want anyone to stereotype Trump voters as racist or ignorant...

but you can declare that they're all mentally ill?

Interesting.

The number of people who believe this nonsense likely number in the millions or tens of millions. They're all PPD?

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

37. I didn't say ALL people who believe in Conspiracy Theories are mentally ill

I said the ones that believe THIS particular one (and similar bizarre ones) are likely having some issues. Then I said that Bizarre Conspiracy Theories (like this one) are popular among people with Paranoid Personality Disorder.

There are NOT millions of people who believe that ridiculous Conspiracy Theory. There lies the difference. I'm implying that people who believe outrageous and ridiculous conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton running a child sex ring out of some hole in the wall pizza place might just be suffering from a mental health issue. I am NOT saying that every person with mental illnesses believes this foolish garbage...and that is the difference. A handful of people vs. MILLIONS of people...MASSIVE difference.

[TwilightZone]

39. So, what does that have to do with voter outreach?

That's the point of this thread. In that context, you responded that we should reach out to conspiracy theorists - and, by extension, Trump voters - because they're mentally ill and need help.

I have no idea what that has to do with the topic at hand. It's like some kind of random non sequitur.

There *are* millions of people who believe conspiracy theories, usually the more ridiculous, the better. Alex Jones alone has 1.4 million followers just on Facebook. His shtick is nothing but ridiculous conspiracy theories.

You are grossly underestimating the number of people who buy into this shit.

[JHan]

27. Yes, Hillary had a massive mental health care initiative on the books..

so much for that now.

[Xipe Totec]

24. Have yet to shuffle off the imbecilical coil. nt

[Persondem]

25. These people are the dumb-fuckiest of the dumb fucks

The link below is about a situation that happened today at the pizza place at the center of this nonsense.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/12/04/comet-ping-pong-fake-news-clinton-shots/94979994/

[TwilightZone]

30. That was partly what motivated my post.

Sadly, I think it's only going to get worse.

[rzemanfl]

26. Should get their pizza elsewhere or make it at home if they can read a fucking

recipe.

[BlueProgressive]

29. Now, I'm pretty sure it's the BUSHES

who run the child sex rings!

(and Donald Trump is one of their best customers!)

[TwilightZone]

31. Well, if the guy had thought about it a while, he might have concluded that PE pussy-grabber...

would be more likely to be involved. Kind of fits the pattern. Especially combined with the recent lawsuits.

[ucrdem]

38. When you live in a tulip state and the tulip market tanks

it isn't the Clinton's fault.

p.s. and it's no excuse for voting R ever.

[TwilightZone]

43. Well, there are people who blame 9/11 on Obama

Perhaps there's some overlap.

Here on DU, some are still blaming Hillary for her husband's behavior a couple of decades ago. Still trying to figure out how that works and how it's relevant to anyone outside of the Hillary haters.

[Garrett78]

42. There are DU posters who also believe utter nonsense.

Clinton put more focus on "transgender bathrooms" than economics.

Clinton ignored problems and said everything in the US is just dandy.

Clinton lost among working class voters.

And so on. Believing in nonsense has become an epidemic in this age of infotainment and lazy ass thinking.

[bettyellen]

46. Totally agree and I'm fed up. Misinformation is rampant and I want no part in it.