Noam Chomsky: Bernie Sanders can win back Donald Trump supporters

[portlander23]

Noam Chomsky: Bernie Sanders can win back Donald Trump supporters
Rachael Revesz
The Independent

Professor Noam Chomsky said that Donald Trump supporters could be enticed to vote Democrat again if the Bernie Sanders movement offered a real program for "hope and change".

On the same evening that vice president Joe Biden said he might run for president in 2020, Mr Chomsky told the crowds at Democracy Now!’s 20th anniversary event that reigniting a "militant labour movement" could swing the next election.

But the professor said that if young people and activists revived a strong labour movement, which could overcome racial conflict like it did in the 1930s, then the workers’ favour could be won back.

"Suppose people like you, the Sanders movement, offered an authentic, constructive program for real hope and change, it would win these people back," he said.

[still_one]

1. He also said, "Liberals who didn't vote for Clinton made a 'bad mistake'

Legendary linguist and activist Noam Chomsky thinks that progressives and left-wingers who didn’t want to vote for Hillary Clinton this year have badly miscalculated — and will now pay a very dear price.



“I think they [made] a bad mistake,” said Chomsky, who reiterated that it’s important to keep a “greater evil” from obtaining power, even if you’re not thrilled with the alternative. “I didn’t like Clinton at all, but her positions are much better than Trump’s on every issue I can think of.”

Chomsky also attacked the arguments made by philosopher Slavoj Zizek, who argued that Trump’s election would at least shake up the system and provide a real rallying point for the left.

“[Zizek makes a] terrible point,” Chomsky told Hasan. “It was the same point that people like him said about Hitler in the early ’30s… he’ll shake up the system in bad ways.”

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/noam-chomsky-progressives-who-refused-to-vote-for-hillary-clinton-made-a-bad-mistake/

[Yurovsky]

2. Look, I'm no spring chicken...

It Bernie is going to be in his late 70s by 2020. I'm not sure if his health will hold up, and if it does, will it for 8 years beyond that?

And I'm a hard-core supporter of Sen. Sanders... we need a new generation of progressives to come to the fore.

[NWCorona]

14. Bernie's presidential ambitions are over imo

[Goblinmonger]

3. I don't think Sander should run in 2020

I was a huge Sanders supporter (I voted Clinton--price of admission paid), but I don't think him running in 2020 would be a good thing. We need a younger progressive. Preferably of color.

[hueymahl]

9. Agreed. NT

[bravenak]

4. What the fuck is he talking about 'millitant labor movement' overcame racial conflict in the 30's?

This an absolutely NOSTALGIC and PHONY rememberance on his part. No the fuck labor did not open up to us negroes in the mutha fucking 1930's. I cannot believe how white peope will fake fucking remember how wonderful shit was for us negroes during segrefuckinggation, how positively intersectional unions were, how everybody got along..


THIS IS ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT FROM BEGINNING TO END. Fuck Noam Chomsky for fucking rewriting history for us black folks and lying his ass off about 'overcame racial conflicts'. BULLSHIT! There is still a problem with blacks and unions TO THIS DAY, especially labor unions, they hire their family and friends and hire black folks last to this day.

[Grey Lemercier]

5. mixed bag, the AFL was deeply racist, the CIO and especially the Wobblies did help

http://www.shmoop.com/history-labor-unions/race.html

[bravenak]

6. It just pisses me off when they pretend all was wonderful and good within labor unions

It wasn't and they have to ignore the black reality to see it that way. I might be tired of old white dudes telling me how great shit was 'FOR EVERYBODY' back when it really was only good for THEMSELVES.

[Grey Lemercier]

7. whilst I tend to agree with you on this about many white scholars, Chomsky is actually

extreme harsh with his racial criticism in regards to the USA.


https://www.democracynow.org/2015/3/3/noam_chomsky_on_black_lives_matter

These issues are very real. There’s more issues here. Racism is a very serious problem in the United States. Take a look at the scholarly work on it, say, George Fredrickson’s study of the white supremacy, comparative study. He concludes, I think plausibly, that the white supremacy in the United States was even more extreme and savage than in South Africa. Just think of our own history. You know, our economy, our wealth, our privilege relies very heavily on a century of horrifying slave labor camps. The cotton—cotton production was not just the fuel of the Industrial Revolution, it was the basis for the financial system, the merchant system, commerce, England, as well. These were bitter, brutal slave labor camps. There’s a recent study by Edward Baptist which comes out with some startling information. It’s called—actually, the title is startling, something like The Half was Never Told [The Half Has Never Been Told], which is more or less true, was never told. But, for example, he shows, pretty convincingly, that in the slave labor camps—the "plantations," we call them, politely—the productivity increased more rapidly than in industry, with no technological advance, just the bullwhip. Just by driving people harder and harder to the point of survival, they were able to increase productivity and profit. And it’s not just the—he also points out that the word "torture" is not used in discussion of this period. He introduces it should be used. I mean, these are camps that could have impressed the Nazis. And it is a large part of the basis for our wealth and privilege. Is there a slave museum in the United States? Actually, the first one is just being established now by private—some private donor. I mean, this is the core of our history, along with the extermination or expulsion of the native population, but it’s not part of our consciousness.

[bravenak]

11. That is exactly why I do not understand his failure to remember the war it took to even get

Labor Unions to accept us, the fact that they used black workers as a scare tactic, the fact that there is still plenty of nepotism within, and that it always needs to be taken into account when formulating a plan. It's weak to default to the position that all we need to do is be more pro labor union. Our party is actually way way way more pro labor union than any other party.

My mom is her union steward at her shop and boy oh boy does she deal with a bunch of racist shit just as a steward. And her union has significant minority participation.

I think sometimes even the most non racist white dudes find it difficult to put themselves in another's shoes. I think that's is what turned me off from Bernie. Good intentions, good ideas, not based on the reality that we live in in 2016, too nostalgic, and those ideas will not work today.

[Grey Lemercier]

13. on this we agree totally(I was a Biden supporter until he decided not to run, then was 1000% Hillary

I met some union people (Teamsters) in NYC whilst I read for my MBA at Columbia, and they were not, shall we say, the most politically correct blokes I have run into.

I really try to give every person the benefit of the doubt, but it is tiresome to be "preached" at by a certain type of white academic as well. Thankfully, the vast majority on not like this. (academics, no idea about Teamsters, lolol)

[JCanete]

15. But the thing is, this was a launch point where black activists could make change by

forcing the union membership to see that they actually needed black labor on their side. Making people see that all workers are allies in common cause helps to erode the mechanisms of racism. It doesn't do all the work or even most of it. But it is an in.

I have no idea why you say that won't work today. The point is not to simply get more people of color into positions that matter where they can continue to be abused by the predominant racism in the land. The point is that we need to tear down all the mechanisms that keep feeding that divide. Starting that effort by changing up our predefined sense of teams is at least a shake-up. It has been a struggle for marginalized communities to successfully even take on that herculean challenge, I understand, but compared to most anything else, I'd say it has been effective. We need to create that solidarity in one germinating area, and prosecute it all the way to the point of wresting some of the money and political tools away from the people who continue to sell racism because it benefits them.

And you don't actually have an alternative anyway. Yours is that nothing will change until white people are finally outnumbered, as if as you have pointed out in other threads, people won't fall pray to the same mechanisms, no matter who becomes the next majority. As if Mexican Americans, Black Americans and Indian Americans are all in solidarity now. Divide and conquer works. Keeping someone under the boot in order to manipulate everyone else will never go out of fashion by itself.

All of that said, I am sure that Chomsky didn't think what he said through, which granted, is certainly a benefit of his white privilege to not immediately feel the disconnect of his words to reality. Racism never did get conquered, even within labor, and to say otherwise, is a whitewash, however unintentional I think it was in this instance.

[bravenak]

20. It wont work because the need for human capital has diminished

Too much automation, too little production, and it it too much damn work to try to constantly fight the same battles over and over. If you think it will work, get to work getting something done. Until I see some effort and progress, I'll continue to think it is a losing battle. Unions might endorse us on the left, but their members make their own decisions on who to support.

Honestly? Unions have issues of their own that we are not allowed to discuss. We can when it comes to police unions, but never ever with anything else, so nothing actually changes. I have watched unions protect some terrible workers who really contribute nothing to the workplace except attitude and drama. Now I know that it is their policy to fight hard for every single member, but good workers suffer when bad workers are protected. People have to WANT to join a union for unions to spread, but how can we spread them when states are controlled by Republicans? Everyone doesn't react positively to the idea of joining a union, even people who are members that like the benefits.

And yes, I honestly do believe that nothing will change on race until white people are simply one of many minorities. Without the power of numbers, it is very hard to continue to dominate everyone and everything and implement different standards for yourselves than for others and to leave people out. Yes. And I know I am right.

[JCanete]

24. As to automation, ABSOLUTELY TRUE. And I was a little frustrated

that Sanders didn't address the realities of the future we were moving towards(though neither did anybody else), and that's either because as far as that goes he's a little too antiquated, or because it wasn't something people were gong to understand. I accepted it because at least what he was proposing we fight for, unions, protectionism, jobs created by infrastructure spending, etc. would stall an inevitable decline, and maybe move us politically on a path to start looking at even more necessary solutions, like Basic Income Guarantee.

Unions, like any body politic are necessary evils, and operate as counter-weights to even bigger forces. They should be policed better by their members. They should have mechanisms for pushing out those that make the institution look bad,but that is rife with complications too, that could fall along discriminatory lines.

I didn't mean personally that this fight should only be taken up by trade unions though, or just workers. Ultimately all of us in the bottom 99% should be teaming up to fight against oligarchy and corporatocracy, towards more than just a safety net, but a better baseline of human rights that extends to food and shelter and life for everybody.

I know its cynical, but giving people a common enemy that puts them on the same side might be the best way to go, and it's only untrue in the respect that rich people are just people, not bad people, and we wouldn't want to have our own Bastille Day. Still, just waiting for white's to finally lose a choke-hold on the mechanisms of power isn't waiting for change, its only waiting for a changing of the guard.

[bravenak]

25. I am hoping against hope that Trump will be that common enemy soon

I know it's silly to wait on a demographic bomb, it's pessimism at its finest. But I really do feel like Trump might be the catalyst for people getting serious about the problems we face as a nation. Thse who listened to him and heard completely different things than we did, will face the same problems brought on by the orange antichrist as we will, we who rejected his asinine message.

It will give us a common enemy. Liberals have been too damn nice to republicans while they scream the most hyperbolic and acidic crap at us. We wont team up until we have no other choice. He is giving us no other choice.

[JCanete]

27. for what its worth, when I was considering not voting for Clinton, that was my rationale. I'v got to

say though, it's going to be a terrifying ride, and one I ultimately decided was not worth the ticket, especially since Clinton and the DNC allowed themselves finally, to be moved left from the outside, and really, that is the outsider's function. It's not like Sanders was ever going to breach that wall. We just need to give the insiders the excuse, permission whatever, to respond to our demands, which required that we have some.

Anyway that hopeful turn gave way to this, and we get an Armageddon fantasy instead. Good luck to us all.

[bravenak]

28. I hope we survive to rebuild

[forjusticethunders]

18. Out of context problem

I think sometimes even the most non racist white dudes find it difficult to put themselves in another's shoes.

It's an out of context problem for white people by definition to be quite honest, unless they fall under other marginalized groups. The economic and labor aspects are only a small part of the whole, which is the otheredness. The experience of being a stranger. An alien. Unwelcome.

With that said, I do think that unionism and labor struggles serve anti-racist purposes in that worker coalitions hold out hope of getting white people to be less racist, which is an overriding goal (most of us can't wait 24 years for minorities to outstrip white people, and our system will still give an unfair advantage to rural whites even after that tipping point is passed)

[forjusticethunders]

19. "Could have impressed"?

Hitler's ENTIRE PLAN was replicating the extermination of Native Americans and the enslavement of black people, except using "inferior" Eastern Europeans.

Believe it or not, the Holocaust was only the "least" horrific piece of the plan. Not as many people are really familiar with Generalplan Ost which, had the Nazis defeated the Soviet Union, would have made the Holocaust look like a bad day in Baghdad.

It was basically rolling Slavery and Manifest Destiny into one hellish mix. And Hitler was explicit, very very explicit, that he got the idea from the United States.

[forjusticethunders]

17. Gotta disagree here to an extent.

The 30s were still pretty bad and progressives, including FDR, made many compromises with the racists, but there was still a good deal of progress in that area (one untold story of the FDR years was that it was under FDR that the black realignment away from the GOP really started) similarly while much of the labor movement was racist, there was a lot of elements of the labor movement that were progressive and looked for multiracial coalition building.

Compared to today, no, still a highly oppressive time, however, compared to the fucking 20s, the decade of the Klan, Red Scare and Great Depression, it was a massive improvement.

[bravenak]

21. I agree that it was way better than before but we basically had to start our own unions to get

anywhere. But by the time the forties came around shit was still very fucked up for black folks and union membership was so exclusive and we gotta remember how unions acted over affirmative action. They acted like fucking assholes.

[NCTraveler]

8. He can work to have them vote for him in the next primary. The results will be the same.

A monolithic campaign that doesn't represent progressives.

[MFM008]

10. I'm finished

With white guys who are almost 80 years old.
The presidency is not a retirement plan.
Notice both of our last 2 winners were in their 40s.

[bravenak]

12. I did notice that

We might need to consider that next time

[ismnotwasm]

16. Bullshit

[TwilightZone]

22. The problem is...many of them don't want hope and change.

Unless by "change", one means change back to the fantasy version of American they think existed in the 1950s.

Hope and change isn't going to convert people who think Muslims are all terrorists or that 12 million people should be deported. Immigration and terrorism were Trump's two strongest areas, according to exit polls.

We don't need that part of the voting public. We need to fight voter suppression and refine our message to increase turnout on *our* side.

[Johonny]

29. I agreed

The next election isn't about winning over people that never vote for you, it's winning back non-voters that might vote for you but have given up on the system or never bothered to care about the system. It's hard to get these people to engage but it is clear when they are engaged Liberal ideals have a much better chance in the marketplace of ideas.

When they don't engage you get a stinky swamp. Why some 60 million Americans want a stinky swamp I have no idea but I do know pretending they will vote for the mystical perfect liberal unicorn is at best a dream and at worse totally counter productive.

[Vinca]

23. They'll migrate back on their own as, one by one, ManBaby's promises disappear.

[Downtown Hound]

26. Who the hell wants them?

We should focus on getting new voters, eliminating the electoral college, and fighting voter suppression, and not catering to these idiots. Anybody stupid enough to think Trump offered positive change is not somebody I want on my side. We'll probably have more than 3 million more votes than Trump when all this is said and done. We don't need more morons in our partry. We need fair elections.

[MineralMan]

30. Go to bed, Noam. You're drunk.

You played a role in Hillary's defeat. Your advice was bad. Go back to linguistics. You were good at that.