So what would it take for many of you to fight the fuck back?

[LaydeeBug]

Seriously.

Obama was born in Kenya. He is a Muslim with ties to terrorists. Michelle is a monkey. Or an ape. Or she should go live with them. I distinctly remember a court case back in the day where a man shot someone and went to Court telling the judge, "It's okay that I shot him. He's a liberal, so it's ok" Bill Clinton's penis was treasonous because Yassir Arafat waited on the phone.

We have withstood the fucking TWINKIE defense when one of our LGBTQ leaders was savagely murdered. We have withstood 25 years of Clinton bashing. We have withstood "Sore Loserman" and Supreme Court intervention to block determining the Will of the People. And always, in the end, AFTER they have seized their booty, we get a "Oh, if you would have counted the votes, Gore won". The skyline in NYC was changed forever because of it.

And now we're getting from the press, "Oh yeah....um...it was FAKE NEWS. Yeah...um....fake news that did it." Here's a fucking clue for these clueless motherfuckers: JOURNALISTS ARE SUPPOSED TO WEED OUT THE FAKE NEWS FROM THE REAL NEWS. THAT'S WHAT THEIR FUCKING JOB IS. THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED NEWS AND NOT ENTERTAINMENT. WE HAVE CSI FOR FICTION, WE DON'T NEED JOURNALISTS PRETENDING OR PROPPING. OR shucking and jiving.

Had the KGOPB followed the law, refrained from suppression and TREASON by providing aid and comfort to the enemy we would be in a different place right now.

So...what's it gonna take for you to stop licking your wounds....stop honing your message...stop letting them frame the narrative and start fighting back? "Crooked Hillary" isn't accurate. Accurate doesn't matter. Truth doesn't matter. ZINGERS matter, and I wish it were different. I *wish* we could have a rational discourse with facts and reason...but these folks can't be educated. They have to be SCHOOLED. That involves cussing. It involves pointing out Russia and the KGOPB are besties now. WE should be repeating it far and wide and often.

We need to play the hand we're dealt, and not the hand we wish we had.

It is also time to hold the press accountable for all the right wing propping up they've been doing for the last 17 years, but that's a whole 'nother Oprah.

[shraby]

1. The most I can say is K & R over and over.

[pintobean]

2. CUSSING AND CAPS LOCK!

That'll gitterdun!

[LaydeeBug]

4. Sadly, that and ridicule are the only things that work. nt

[sarisataka]

5. I CAN TOP THAT

I'LL HIGHLIGHT THAT SHIT IN BOLD!!

[LaydeeBug]

7. I appreciate your attempt to marginalize the OP

now if *only* you did that with the KGOPB

[sarisataka]

9. Typing rants

in an online forum where 99.99% of the people are in agreement with you is not fighting back, cussing notwithstanding.

You talk below about acting the same a RWers did to Obama... how much respect did that gain? do you look up to them as role models to institute change? do you expect anyone will look at you any different than they look at those?

However if that is what you believe is the best course- by all means, proceed.

I will save my efforts for thoughtfully written letters to my representatives opposing the expected flood of poor policy to soon come from D.C. and supporting Democratic initiatives. I will also engage voters of any stripe in a respectful discussion of the merits and flaws of the soon to be inaugurated candidate and his actions. I have no fear that I will have plenty of ammunition to win those debates.

[LaydeeBug]

10. Responding to those typing rants

in an online forum....well...you get the point.

As the OP stated, this isn't ABOUT respect. You made it about that. You ask where all that smack talk got them...it got them all three branches of our government and control of the USSC for at least the next generation.

So go thoughtfully compose carefully written letters to your representatives explaining your position. I am sure they will note your concern.

[sarisataka]

11. To each their own...

Some will go to the places of power to be heard, others will stand on the street corner shouting at passing traffic

[LaydeeBug]

12. Oh absolutely!

Some will go to a place of power to be heard to delude themselves that the power listened (lol).

And others know that the power IS INDEED in those streets.

toodles!

[dionysus]

37. Ot's like going to an NA meeting, ranting how drugs are bad, and claiming

You're figjtingbthe war on drugs, lol.

[LaydeeBug]

50. and blaming your family when you fall off the wagon. nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

51. Ohh, that'll get a lot done... NO, it's time to take to the fuckin' streets, Vietnam Era-style... that's the ONLY thing that'll grab people's attention to the Fuhrer-Elect's fascist agenda!

[Exilednight]

16. I can do better than that

I'M GOING TO UNDERLINE IT

[Marengo]

3. We'll work up a "Number 6" on 'em!

[First Speaker]

6. Short answer: I don't know what it will take...

...but I do know we aren't in "normal" times, even the bizarre normality we've been in ever since Gingrich's "revolution" in 1994. There is a literal fascist traitor set to occupy the White House; there is literally a move on to restore Jim Crow, and crush liberal democracy. Talk of "organizing"; of lawsuits, demonstrations, et al...what good are they, in the face of literal fascism? Is there an answer, short of civil war? Do we wait for them to make the overt moves--"fire the first shot"? But if we do, will it be too late to resist? Should we be thinking of organizing an honest-to-Weimar left-wing paramilitary force, as a precaution? But if we wait until after Jan 20--will *that* be too late? I hope, ten years from now, these kind of thoughts will seem like paranoid shit. But I don't think they will...

[LaydeeBug]

8. I will give them as much deference as they give our side...

and after someone referred to FLOTUS as an ape, I asked them if they thought Melania would do a spread eagle nude shoot showing the pussy Donald grabs when he is not salivating over his daughter's. He likes those RUSSIAN names. Their face was priceless...because this was stolen and the 'necks know it.

[dionysus]

38. Jesus christ.. you gonna join a wannabe death squad? For christ sake,

nothing close to that dramatic is going to happen.

Every time a rethug gets elected the same doomsday rants happen. Bush was gonna do all that henious shit you mentioned, excelt he never did. You sound like a RWer talking about Jade Helm...

:facepalm"

[socialist_n_TN]

42. If you don't think there's, AT THE VERY LEAST, a quantative difference.......

between Trump's rhetoric and Nixon's or even W's, then you might be part of the problem and the reason that Dems don't fight back and consequently lose elections. At least Bush II tried to pass off his screwing of the people as "compassionate conservatism". Instead Trump actively campaigned for the racist and fascist votes. THAT'S a YUGE difference in tone that cannot be ignored. Basically that shows that he doesn't CARE what people who oppose his politics think and he doesn't mind the entire world knowing it.

I take threats seriously. W didn't directly threaten me, he just had policies that I knew would screw me over. Trump actually HAS threatened me.

[UCmeNdc]

13. You are 100% correct

The problem for me is I do not have an answer. The progressive side seems so disorganized and leaderless. We have no assholes who work in the dark. We have no expert mud slingers lurking and producing good outstanding propaganda mud that sticks.

How do you win?

[LaydeeBug]

14. Their side said "email!" "kenya" over and over again, ad we're supposed to write letters.

fight back!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

52. Progressives disorganized and leaderless, so how do you win?...

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

[Tatiana]

15. You, are the type of Democrat we need.

First of all, I oppose everything that stands in support of and with Trump.

I have colleagues who I know voted for that monster, knowing that the students they teach could be ripped apart from their families based upon policies his administration will implement. I refuse to collaborate with these people. I remind them at every opportunity that Trump is the most unpopular incoming President in modern history. I call the Trump-lovers "comrade" when I'm referring to them.

Specifically, I'm looking at the upcoming 2018 midterms and I am pledging to work on behalf of Democratic candidates in tough elections in nearby Midwestern states. I will phone bank, knock on doors, help friends host listening parties -- whatever. That is the next firewall. We cannot afford to lose additional seats in Congress.

I also have sent messages through email and snail mail to 2018 Senators Durbin and Baldwin encouraging them to obstruct and oppose everything the Trump administration proposes.

That's just a start. But, as a citizen, I do believe it is my job to be part of (as Keith O put it) the Resistance.

[LaydeeBug]

17. YOU are the type of Democrat we need..and thank you for your committment.

Because...this is the point...WE are who WE need.

THEY need US more than we need them...or...if this is going to turn into a civil war, the stupid motherfuckers are land locked, and China owns half of it anyway.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

53. Yes... and this guy:

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!

[LaydeeBug]

55. sadly, he's not one of us anymore but I do love him

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

57. Oh, but he is!... Why do you say that Laydeebug?

[LaydeeBug]

58. He left the Democratic Party after the convention

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

61. He did? That's news to me... thought he campaigned vigorously for Hillary and other Dems. Musta been fake news.

[LaydeeBug]

62. Vigorusly might be a bit generous, but it is NOT fake nwes that Sanders left the Democratic

Party. Really. He did.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

63. I honestly had not heard that... would be disappointed if that were true.

[LaydeeBug]

65. Check it...

Here is his wiki page, see where it says Independent? There is only a blip where he runs as a Democrat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders

But anybody can wiki, so let's include, 'call his office and just ask them, and they'll tell you' here:
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/office-locations?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

67. I know Bernie is an Independent, but leans HEAVILY Democratic. In other words, the best of BOTH worlds!

You shouldn't get caught up in labels... Bernie is one of us!!... fo sho!!

[lunasun]

66. He stated this immediately after the nomination in July He is an IN senator . Old real news

He was elected as an independent and will return to congress as one
IMO we can not also. become more of the people who if we don't like what we hear in the news claim it is fake

Look for Sanders own comments after the convention

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

68. Don't disagree, but see my response to LaydeeBug above.

[Dustlawyer]

30. I am writing letters to the editor as letters to my representatives, Cornyn and Cruz, would not mat

I have also been reminding Trump voters I know what he is doing. They really don't know what he is about! The looks on their faces when you tell them they are taking away Medicare and SS are priceless. Point out that they are going to sell off government land to oil companies (they hunt there right now) and watch them lose their minds. Point out how in bed with Wall Street (Goldman Saks) his administration is and they just look confused, "I thought he was going to drain the swamp?" I remind them that I told them he was a con man.

I vow to keep telling them what he is doing so I can rob them of their base.

[Tatiana]

35. Yes, Yes, and YES!!!!!!

Point out the hypocrisy always!

Sometimes I will ask my Republican associates when the wall will be built. I mean, that's what they were chanting and clamoring for, right?

And we should always point out that the man who said he would drain the swamp actually ran a pipeline of raw sewage straight to DC.

I think the point is, we have to get confrontational and fight them on every turf, regardless of whether or not our "leaders" actually lead a credible opposition.

We have everything to lose if we don't.

[Dustlawyer]

41. The real trick is to do it in such a way as to not get them defensive,

otherwise their brain shuts down and they dig in. I will make it seem like I am a Trumpster who just found out I was betrayed, that they can wrap their head around. No one likes being played for a fool!

[RBInMaine]

18. Don't fight back. Fight FORWARD. Get on offense and STAY there.

[LaydeeBug]

20. this. nt

[Paladin]

19. Thank you for the flawless statement of where we NEED to be, as Democrats.

And in answer to your question: I need no further encouragement to fight.

I have former friends on Facebook, demanding to know what the proper seasonal greeting should be: "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays"? (Need I tell everybody what the "correct" answer is?) I'm convinced these people are keeping lists, and they're checking them twice, for future punitive action.

As I've mentioned before, I've offered refuge and protection to gay friends of mine, should things get as bad as they're likely to.

I never, ever imagined that things could go so bad in this country, so quickly. Your question couldn't be more timely: what the fuck will it take for us to fight back? The barbarians are breaching the gate, right now.

[LaydeeBug]

23. this is so true. But we outnumber them, and we vote each day with our tax dollars. nt

[adigal]

21. I asked the same question on my thread

And sadly, we have many, many people who are Dems who are too polite to even call out Ivanka on her support of her father.

[jalan48]

22. Money works.

[mythology]

24. You do realize the Twinkie defense (which is actually a bit more complicated than you think)

didn't work right? That the people who call the Obamas apes often wind up getting fired right?

But then again you're repeatedly been told that your understanding of treason is incorrect and stuck your fingers in your ears, so I doubt that you've bothered to actually research any of this.

It also doesn't help your case when you make things up. In the recount Gore asked for, he would likely have lost. In a full statewide recount, he likely would have won, but he never asked for that. However, that is only likely as there were some votes that couldn't be handed over and the recounters were using different standards, it's actually not possible to say for certain who would have won.

And even more so, there is absolutely no way you can claim with any degree of usefulness that if Gore was president in 2001, 9/11 wouldn't have happened. The notorious August 6th presidential daily briefing said bin Laden wanted to attack in the U.S. But we didn't have a concept of hijacking a plane in order to use it as a missile Not to mention 36 days is really quick to make major changes in government bureaucracy. Just saying Gore being president would have stopped that without offering even a sliver of evidence is laughable.

By screaming with such certainty when objectively there is no certainty, you just don't look like somebody serious.

[LaydeeBug]

25. People who claim the moral high ground shouldn't do it while in quicksand...

and just because you have repeatedly bloviated that *I* don't under treason, it seems perhaps you are the one who doesn't, since 'aid and comfort to the enemy" seems to escape you....

It certainly wouldn't help my case if I made things up...too bad I didn't. Were you to count the votes in Florida, Al Gore would have won. Add to that the FACT that Clinton's team held weekly meetings about terrorism and the Bush Administration held absolutely NO MEETING on the matter whatsoever, and, yeah, I am VERY comfortable with my statement.

You also make the stupid assumption that I give a rat's ass what YOU think I look like...but it does beg the question: if I am someone you don't think "looks serious", why do you even bother to respond?

We *both* know. LOTS of right wing peddling there.

[Squinch]

26. Kick. Happy Holidays, LaydeeBug, and keep pushing! I keep thinking about your

"don't let them control the narrative." And I completely agree that it is past time for us to put message above civility.

May you have happiness in the New Year.

[egduj]

27. Turning the magazines over in the checkout line isn't enough?

[radical noodle]

28. We don't have to make stuff up

all we have to do is call things what they really are. If Trump lies, he didn't misspeak, it wasn't erroneous, it was a freaking lie. The GOP had to make up most of the things they ranted about, we do not.

[LaydeeBug]

31. Thank you! This! They make shit up, repeat it ad nauseum, ignore Courts Orders

and we're supposed to talk about Bernie.

Or bathrooms.

Or the fucking rust belt.

And every time we let them get away with it...every time we allow them to 'mansplain' treason, or marginalize you because of your fucking use of cuss words, they are rewarding Comey. They are rewarding Putin's efforts. They are walking instep with the KGOPB.

Fuck that.

[radical noodle]

33. Exactly LaydeeBug!

They count on us losing focus about calling them out. We fix on something and then they change the subject and we go trailing off after the shiny new thing.

[LaydeeBug]

49. right down the bunny trail...and they're violating the law

and acting like it's par for the course.

[Cha]

48. That's right, radical noodle!

[TXCritter]

29. Define "fighting back"

What forms of "fighting" are acceptable/unacceptable?

[LaydeeBug]

32. welcome to DU. nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

54. Let's just say the ends DO justify the means!!

[TXCritter]

64. Well, that's a far cry from non-violent civil disobedience

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

69. Not advocating violence, but this is no time to go soft!!

[NCTraveler]

34. Just don't be mean to Ivanka. Nt

[dionysus]

36. Do you consider rants like the OP "fighting back"?

[WilliamH1474]

39. I am so confused

So do we rant and rave, mail stuff to our reps or should we be arming up or something?

This post is so confusing.

[usrbs]

44. We should obstruct, agitate, oppose, resist; and force our Democratic "leaders" to do the same

For example:

* Form a "resistance" group in your location. Even 6 - 8 committed people who meet monthly can do a lot! I've seen that with "Transition" towns. That group decides on what actions to take on - anything from taking over the local Democratic Town Committee to coordinating calls and letters to their local Congressmen.
* Call upon the Democratic reps to male clear to them that we won't stand for any hints of compromise and "getting along"
* Call upon the Democratic reps to have them do national "Moral Mondays"
* Write letters to the editor of the local newspapers
* Object to Fox TV being on in waiting rooms
* Plaster the surroundings with posters and flyers about a single issue that changes periodically. For instance I heard on Sirius Left "The GOP and Trump are coming for your Medicare". It would be nice if some central group would prepare the downloadable material, and make sure that all Democrats appearing in the media stress the current talking point
* We are pretty much shut out of media, so some talented group should think about how to get the message out. This means thinking outside the box and doing / saying outrageous things. Like Dean hinting Trump was on drugs in the debate. "Moral Mondays" are good for that as well.
* Organize demonstrations and walk-outs,and make sure they're covered in the media and without violence.
* Whenever you encounter Trump supporters, attack on all fronts, starting from the questionable election results ("if everything was above board, why did Trump sue to stop the recounts?&quot , the lack of a mandate, the rampant corruption, etc. Make it clear that YOU don't accept him as a legitimate president and never will.

And
[link:http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/12/what-democrats-can-learn-from-the-tea-party.html|]

[LaydeeBug]

45. this sounds like a start, and not allowing those motherfuckers to frame the narrative

as some are trying to do here, on this very thread.

They are third way, divide and conquer motherfuckers. Pay it no mind.

Fighting back is he only way.

PS. It *is* INDEED a FACT that Rudy Guiliani fucked his cousin. Repeatedly.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

56. WIT!! (WHATEVER IT TAKES!!)

[FiveGoodMen]

40. So...

You think we should shoot someone?

Stage a coup?

Start a civil war?

[socialist_n_TN]

43. I've been wondering that myself.....

nm

[Rex]

46. People live on easy street on our side, they will never rock the boat.

Nothing new, a lot of people know this.

[LaydeeBug]

47. To whom much is given, much is expected. nt

[doc03]

59. How are we supposed to fight when there is nobody

in the Democratic party with the guts to speak out other then Bernie and E. Warren? Where the hell are the other forty something in the Senate and all those people in the House. Every time Trump screws something up there are 10 of his minions on every network
defending him. I think there has been more Republicans criticizing Trump than any of our own. At least we have McCain and Graham
to take him on once in a while.

[bowens43]

60. so what's your solution other than righteous indignation?

good rant but it's just a rant.

You have anything else? Answers? Plans?

[Lint Head]

70. Throughout history people have done things for the betterment of all that would be considered

against the law but today we consider courageous. We need more courageous people today more than ever.

Trump lives in the present by constantly attempting to do things that personally gratify
and aggrandize himself. He cares nothing about the future. I think he is hedonistic.