NRA Asks Supreme Court To Strike Down Gun Limits For Minors

[Tx4obama]

NRA Asks Supreme Court To Strike Down Gun Limits For Minors

In a Monday court filing, the National Rifle Association asked the U.S. Supreme Court to strike down a 1968 law that prevents licensed gun dealers from selling handguns to people between the ages of 18 and 21.

The NRA, along with two nineteen-year-olds, aims to overturn the federal law that restricts the sale of handguns and ammo to anyone under 21 years of age. While individuals between the ages of 18 and 21 cannot obtain a handgun from a licensed dealer per the law, they can still obtain a gun through other channels. The law also does not prevent individuals between 18 and 21 from obtaining shotguns and rifles.

"Because everyone who sells firearms on anything even approaching a regular basis must be federally licensed, this restriction precludes law abiding adults under the age of 21 from purchasing handguns from the most common (and most logical) sources," the filing reads.

-snip-

Full article here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/01/nra-supreme-court-minors_n_3692751.html

[msongs]

1. 5 year olds have a right to keep and bear arms according to the 2A ya know, as do 12yrolds nt

[jimmy the one]

6. ripe full gum

5/2013: Three-year-old girl recognized as youngest lifetime NRA member at Houston convention cccc shared the stage with her father, her grandfather and Wayne LaPierre to accept the honorary award. Elaih’s grandfather gave her the membership as a birthday present

An 8-yr-old Md boy got a standing ovation and a lifetime membership in the National Rifle Association after being suspended from school for gnawing a Pop-Tart into the shape of a gun

apr 2012: Rick Santorum's 3-yr-old daughter, now NRA life member. The ex-candidate announced at the NRA's annual meeting he and wife have long been life members.“Now bbbb is a life member of the NRA,"“And I hope it’s a long life!”

Christmas morning at nra house: Looks mommy what I gots! a rypull gum!
Rifle gun, little sammy, rifle gun.
A ryf pull gum!
Rye- full- Gun! Ri full gun!
Ripe full gum!
Aw how cute, he's almost got it already after only a minute! - don't worry sammy, you'll be pronouncing it properly in no time! .. no wait sammy, you're holding it backwards, that's the front end there, see?

silver lining: In 1995, former US President Geo HW Bush also resigned his life membership to the NRA...(along with norman schwarzkopf, rip.

[otohara]

2. No Gun Laws

Is their ultimate goal

[davidpdx]

5. Which is the opposite of their stance on abortion laws

Put as many as they can on the books so they can bring back the 12th century. So much for a smaller government. Ironic isn't it?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

19. Right

peeling them off one by one until you can carry (and probably even wave) around a gun anywhere and everywhere no matter how seemingly inappropriate, unwise, or illogical it might be.................Beer and guns go good together, don't you know?

[SunSeeker]

3. Too young to buy a beer, but they can buy a gun?!

[NutmegYankee]

9. An honest question is why an 18 year-old can't buy beer?

If your an adult, subject to all responsibilities of an adult, you should have ALL rights of an adult.

[SunSeeker]

13. Because it saves 900 lives each year and protects developing brains.

http://www.madd.org/underage-drinking/why21/

http://saprp.org/knowledgeassets/knowledge_detail.cfm?KAID=19

[tumtum]

15. Yet they can be sent off to war with a fully auto rifle, grenade launcher,

grenades, handgun, all at 18 years old.

So, my question is, if they're trusted to handle these weapons in the military at 18, then why not as a civilian?
18 is considered to be an adult.

[SunSeeker]

21. I don't think 18 year olds should be sent off to war. nt

[tumtum]

23. We're on the same page here.

[happyslug]

36. So can Felons

When I was in the National Guard, one of the jobs of the full timers was to go to the local Jails and Medium Security Prisons and pick up all those people who were members of the National Guard but were in prison or Jail, often for Felonies (mostly burglaries and other property theft felonies). If the National Guardsmen was in a Maximum Prison, they were NOT released, but many people convicted of Felonies were released for the two weeks of Training.

When they arrived at the armory, they were given a M-16 with bolt. We rarely had ammunition during out two weeks training AND the M-16s had to be turned in when we were NOT in the Field (Old Timers who had served in the 1960s and early 1970s told us, in that time period they were given their weapons on the first day of Annual Training and kept them till the last day, even if they were in the barracks).

Just a comment that even FELONS are issued fully automatic weapons when we send them off to war.

[NutmegYankee]

18. European children drink, and consistantly outscore US children on tests.

Spare me the "young developing brains" bullshit story.

I'll add that I consider MADD to be very biased and they support a prohibitionist viewpoint. Since I'm German-American, and the prohibitionists are partly responsible for the complete destruction of German-American cultural celebration in the USA, I naturally hate them. They have also opposed legalized home brewing, a hobby I enjoy.

[SunSeeker]

24. That is thanks to their way better schools.

Europe has major issues with underage drinking. But there, the teens have decent public transit, so teen drunk driving does not kill as many people.

Sigh. Sorry, I actually thought you were asking an "honest question" and Googled the issue. Those are the links that popped up. I was not passing off a "bullshit story." You asked why and that is why.

Are you capable of discussing anything without being rude?

[NutmegYankee]

28. As a German-American who was constantly stimatized by Southern Baptist anti-alcohol views...

I can come off a bit rude. I absolutely disagree with the neo-prohibitionist viewpoint. I socially drink and I home brew and love trying new beers and wines. And have always done so responsibly. But drinking culture is always under attack by groups like MADD under the guise of "safety".

[SunSeeker]

31. I like to have a drink too and no Southerners have stigmatized me about it.

I've never found Southerners to be anti-alcohol. Last time I was in New Orleans I was shocked to find that it is legal to have an open container of alcohol in your car while driving. Not sure if that is still the law though.

Now expressing support for gun control, THAT will get you stigmatized In the South.

[NutmegYankee]

33. Well, my South was Appalachia. New Orleans is very different.

New Orleans is heavily Catholic, who are generally alcohol friendly. It's evangelical Protestant that can be very anti-alcohol. My negative experiences were in some of the less traveled parts of Appalachia.

[happyslug]

37. In Pennsylvania you are a Minor till you turn 21 and that has ALWAYS BEEN THE LAW

Now, in the early 1970s, when the Federal Government lowered the voting age to 18, so did Pennsylvania and then passed a series of laws lower other ages to 18, but the age of majority remained and remains at 21 in Pennsylvania

Now, for all practical purposes Pennsylvania you are treated as if over 21 if over 18. This was done by changing various laws to apply to people under 18 instead of to "Minors. These changes included voting, forming contracts, Children and Youth Jurisdiction, getting married etc. In the late 1990s it was found Pennsylvania had NEVER changed the law as to buying cigarettes, the law still said "minors" could not purchased cigarettes NOT that people under 18 could not buy cigarettes.

In the ban on minor's buying cigarettes, the term minor was undefined and the cigarettes companies said that meant age 18. The problem was some police decided to go after under age cigarettes buyers and notice that the law said "Minor" not "under 18". The police arrested people who sold cigarettes to 18 year olds and the Courts UPHELD THE ARRESTS. The Courts ruled since Pennsylvania had NEVER changed the definition of Minor as being someone being under age 21, that was still the law if a Law used the term "Minor".

No appeals were taken from the above convictions, for it was clear, Pennsylvania had NEVER changed the legal definition of "Minor". The Cigarettes companies decided to get the State General Assembly to "Clarify" that law by changing it from Minor to someone under age 18 (it was cheaper to get the General Assembly to change the law, then to fight the law on appeal, with the high chance the Appellant courts would uphold the lower courts rulings).

The chief reason that the term "Minor" meant someone under age 21, was Pennsylvania had NEVER reduced its drinking age to below 21. When the Federal Government lowered the Voting age for federal elections to 18, the State did NOT want to reduce the age of one could buy alcohol. Thus Pennsylvania passed laws adjusting those laws that had 21 in it and reduced them to 18 and passed a law saying for purposes of contract law, 18 years olds can be treated as if over 21. This way Pennsylvania did NOT have to change its law as to who was a minor and thus kept the drinking age at 21.

Cigarettes seems to be have been forgotten about (or more likely the General Assembly wanted the same rules on them as on Alcohol, but the Cigarettes makers decided to undermine this ruling by saying minors meant someone under age 18, when the Law as to who is a Minor in Pennsylvania was NEVER CHANGED).

Just pointing out that at least one state a Minor is still someone under age 21 and thus subject to restrictions that someone over 21 does NOT have (Hard to determine what those restrictions are, except for Alcohol AND the ability to stay in High School if you had not graduated yet, both are set at age 21)

[hack89]

11. You are right - time to fix the drinking age. nt

[SunSeeker]

14. Don't fix what ain't broke.

See my post #13.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

4. There doesn't seem to be anybody

that they do not want to have guns. We know they don't even have problems selling to terrorists. I'm just waiting for them to start pushing for minors to have access to guns

I just thought of something: Maybe these 19 year olds should join the military if they want to have guns- you know, tide them over for another two years?

[hack89]

12. 18 year olds have access to guns

they can buy them through private sales or receive them as gifts. So why is buying from a dealer such a big deal?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

16. I guess nobody told them about this

Is it actually legal for them to buy it from a private dealer and/or get it from somebody as a gift? If not, then is what you're saying just another one of those "well, people are just going to break the law anyway......." arguments that pretty much could be used to invalidate any law out there?


I'm not interested in guns and frankly don't care whether the legal age for buying a gun is 18 or 21 but the law is the law.

[hack89]

25. Yes it is legal

hence my question - seems to be inconsistent to me.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

27. I guess it doesn't make that much sense to me either

not that every single law out there is consistent (or logical)

[dsc]

7. I am by no means a fan of the NRA

but on this limited issue, they are correct. I fail to see any reason why 18 year olds, who are given every single, solitary, obligation of citizenship in the US can't be given all the rights as well. If they can be forced to register for the draft, they should be able to drink a draft and buy a gun.

[NutmegYankee]

10. I agree.

I don't see any reason to provide restrictions between 18 and 21. And with alcohol, if we did a better job of raising kids to see alcohol as normal vs a forbidden pleasure, we'd have less binge drinking.

[Major Hogwash]

8. If only those 20 first graders in Connecticut could have been armed!!!!

The NRA --- racist to the end, the bitter end!!!

I expect their poll numbers to be lower than Rush Limbaugh's by the time we get to vote next year.

[tumtum]

17. None of those 1st graders were 18.

[Paladin]

20. Thanks so much for that helpful clarification.

[tumtum]

22. Just trying to figure out why he would write such an inane comment.

Had nothing to do with thread.

And, you're welcome for the clarification.

[hack89]

26. It is a common rejoinder

because we know to disagree with them means you must support the murder of little kids.

[tumtum]

30. Then that's got to be the stupidest comparison I've ever seen.

[hack89]

32. The gun "debate" here has devolved into two groups talking past each other

posts like that are common.

[NutmegYankee]

34. It's like the abortion debate.

Two sides talking past each other on a right. There will never be agreement.

[HockeyMom]

29. The drinking age was 18 when I was that age

I fully understand why they did. It was for DRUNK DRIVING. Hell, I lived in MANHATTAN. Who DRIVES in Manhattan? You take taxis, so even if I was falling down drunk, I could either call a cab, or try to WALK home. However, I fully understood even at that young age that the country did not revolve around ME and MY life.

Same with guns. I would ask that if somebody between 18 and 21 is that DESPERATE to own a gun and cannot wait a couple of years, maybe they SHOULDN'T be allowed to have one? Sounds like they might have more serious issues.

[KennedyBrothers]

35. Yes, and...

...3-year-olds should be allowed to drive!

[davidpdx]

38. NRA to America:

Every baby should be born with a gun.