2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumJesus Christ..Enough of the anti-Obama NSA Spying issue..
Last edited Sat Aug 17, 2013, 05:59 PM - Edit history (1)
Weve got a bunch of extremist nuts out there who are determined to bring down our govt. and country..
They continue lying about Benghazi. the IRS made up bullshit, and the Affordable Healthcare Act... more importantly they are passing incredible discriminatory voting laws in practically every state they control
Everyday we are beginning to see clips of constituents who are beginning to go after these crazy bastards.. Granted there are only a few but we never ever saw these guys challenged before.
If we loose the House, Senate and White House the damage done might be irreversible for decades.
Illegal Spying will become far worse if these crazy bastards win at the polls in the next election cycles.
We need to get back to the basics and start addressing these liars with every bit of strength we possess.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/16/dan-webster-mocked_n_3769354.html?ref=topbar
Update: The shit just goes on and on. So fast that we can not keep up with it..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-panel-withheld-document-on-nsa-surveillance-program-from-members/2013/08/16/944e728e-0672-11e3-9259-e2aafe5a5f84_story.html?hpid=z1
BlueDemKev
(3,003 posts)I'm not thrilled that Obama has continued the Bush policy of the government "supervising" our phone calls, emails, etc., although I'm NOT the least bit surprised that he has. Our country changed on Sept. 11, 2001 and it will never be exactly the same again.
corkhead
(6,119 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)It's apparently easier to huff&puff, and complain endlessly about
"Snowden-lovers" with snarky comments.
pnwmom
(108,955 posts)Th1onein
(8,514 posts)The ones that come from the Washington Post, Reuters, and the Guardian. That are followed through by Forbes, and other major news outlets? THOSE posts?
Or did you mean the ones that are trying to convey to anyone and everyone that is OKAY to spy on Americans because Obama is president now?
I'm confused. Please set this straight.
LuvLoogie
(6,913 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Autumn
(44,980 posts)If they are maybe they should put on their thinking caps and get a handle on it and take the NSA Spying issue out of the equation. Easy enough to do. If they don't, I think the blame would fall right on their shoulders if we loose the House, Senate and the White House. This isn't going away.
But on the bright side Skinner has given you the tools so that you don't have to deal with the unpleasantness of it all.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Tell me this: whose fault will it be if Dems take your advice but Republicans win anyway and have the reins of the all-powerful surveillance state in their hands?
East Coast Pirate
(775 posts)not made more powerful by a Democratic administration.
Autumn
(44,980 posts)they will have the reins of the all-powerful surveillance state in their hands. That's history. No one can be naive enough to think that Democrats will hold power for all time. It just doesn't work that way.
Try reading, my "advice" was that the Democrats take the NSA out of the equation, do away with it. As to who's fault it will be, the fault will lie on the party that did nothing to stop it.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)However, the Dems in Power (the DIPs) seem to have no clue, and show little evidence of getting one.
Caretha
(2,737 posts)is too simple, and unfortunately simple minds can not disseminate it.
Autumn
(44,980 posts)The republicans aren't going anywhere. I doubt they are suddenly going become reasonable. They WILL have this power, more than likely in 2016. This isn't about Obama or the Senate and Congress election. This is the only chance we have to turn this back.
Caretha
(2,737 posts)Autumn. My take is when the Democratic tent became so big and all the "Reaganite Republicans" rushed to join and call themselves "Democrats", that they became one in name only. They did not drop their true ideals or their authoritarian mentality. It's very hard to change your stripes, you know.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)is that the power of the surveillance state has anything to do with which political party is in the majority. Their is simply nothing to suggest it does
RKP5637
(67,086 posts)and go and seemingly has little accountability, even denying presidents information saying they do not have a 'need to know.' And one day some will probably be surprised when the surveillance state becomes the government.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)In fact they are doing the opposite...Trying not to stir the pot...
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)I completely agree!
skydive forever
(443 posts)No Vested Interest
(5,164 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)Because in his time I am sure that there were those that said "enough of this criticize of the Pharisees, don't you know the Romans are the real enemy"
But he did not STFU so I guess he was wrong eh?....and they were justified in shutting him up for good.
bhikkhu
(10,711 posts)That guy is worse than Santa Claus, by some accounts!
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And those same people think that it is a good thing to do that because it keeps us safe from ourselves...never know when we might be tempted to think something bad.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)which does NOT include creating a draconian 100%-saturation Surveillance & Security State.
That's the long & short of it for me.
Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #11)
bhikkhu This message was self-deleted by its author.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)But let me remind you of who we are dealing with again..
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/17/tennessee-republican-tells-girl-her-father-has-to-be-deported-as-tea-party-crowd-cheers/
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)If you don't see it, and do it, OUR way, well then, "I can't guarantee your safety anymore"
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)Insane...
There are thousands of kids in this country who are in the same situation as this poor kid..
No, were a fighting a different kind of war now...Im all in on it. Will do what i can to purge these
insane criminals from our govt.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)being mindful of not wanting a witch hunt, but just simple justice and fairness, and
integrity with constitution.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)Im all in on getting it completely under control...But I have my eye on something else right now..
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)disidoro01
(302 posts)Dems get there eye on other things too, the party will continue to shed supporters and rightly so.
Get you eyes on the Drone program which is now firing missiles right and left it seems and has killed thousands of civilians. Do you think it's ok to label all men between the ages of 17 and 60 as terrorists?
Get you eye on wall street and big banks, what the hell happened to bring those responsible for the recession to justice?
There are more but these two issues are huge for me.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)NSA spying is wrong, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise to protect any politician who chooses to make excuses for it. "Don't point out stuff that makes us look bad" is a Republican mindset.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
leveymg
(36,418 posts)There's no inherent contradiction here. So, please, stop telling us to shut up.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)But which is more important? Pinning the NSA mess on Obama or preventing these lunatics from taking over our govt. legally?
By the way shut up was never mentioned in the original text..
Defectata
(83 posts)Obama is the chief executive, and reigning in the NSA falls on him.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)defund Obamacare privatize S.S. and voucher out Medicare.. And thats only the beginning..
By the way I could care less about the Dem Party.. I care about the human condition...and I will support any party old or new which cares about humanity....
questionseverything
(9,645 posts)but hopefully we can save both...all the dems needs to do is follow wydens lead and fix this,it would give dems something to be proud of and that would get out the vote and we would pick up a few tea party "constitutionalists" too
MisterP
(23,730 posts)busterbrown
(8,515 posts)Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)- I believe the Benghazi and IRS "scandals" were largely the invention of Darrell Issa's active imagination;
- The Affordable Care Act, while not perfect, is a good start toward solving the problems of America's failed experiment with free market solutions for public health;
- Discriminatory voter ID laws such as those passed recently in North Carolina and Texas are un-American and that the federal government take all measures necessary to restore voting rights in those states, up to and including sending federal troops into those states to prevent implementation of racist acts of the state legislatures.
That you would believe that I am on your side. As far as that goes, you would be right.
Perhaps you even agree with me that:
- Mortgage fraud committed by banks against consumers should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and that we're not talking about prosecuting artificial persons but the actual flesh-and-blood human beings who designed, approved and implemented systemic fraud;
- A large corporate campaign contribution is an implicit bribe and that acts of Congress should reflect that simple fact rather than attempt to draw a distinction where there is none;
- All violations of the Geneva Conventions are also violations of US law and that members of the Bush Junta, including Messrs. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, should therefore be tried in federal court for torture, rendition and willfully launching a war against a sovereign state with fabricated evidence and claims of a casus belli.
I also believe, though apparently you do not, that
- The collection of so-called metadata from private communications companies of the calls made by private American citizens, calls received by private American citizens and the duration of each call is spying and a violation of Fourth Amendment, in and of itself, and that no amount of "reform" in terms of so-called safeguards or oversight can bring it within what the Fourth Amendment will allow;
- If the government feels a need for such information, the Fourth Amendment allows it to take out search warrants naming the specific individuals and items to be searched;
- Several articles of the Bill of Rights collectively disallow secret laws, secret interpretations of any law, secret trials, secret evidence or a gag order so broad as prohibit the subject of an investigation from speaking to his attorney about it.
In other words, I believe that we had a long list of grievances against the Bush Junta that, contrary to implicit or explicit promises made by Senator Obama prior to his election as President in 2008, have not been sufficiently addressed and that, therefore, the American people have legitimate grievances on these same matters with the Obama Administration.
Yes, I am aware of the danger to American democracy posed by those elements the far right wing now in control of the Republican Party. I certainly approve of public pushback by sane people against congressmen serving the interests of what I believe can be called fascism: unbridled corporate greed, not only unopposed by the federal and state governments but assisted by them to include stifling of public dissent against it and the systematic disenfranchisement of voters likely to vote for candidates who oppose it; that this can only exist in the context of a police state that should be opposed by the public with any means necessary to snuff it out. I also believe that a kinder, gentler police state is still a police state and should be resisted by the public through any means necessary. Consequently, domestic spying by the government on the people as a whole, whether as implemented by the Bush Junta or as reformed by the Obama Administration, cannot be reformed; it is unacceptable. It must be dismantled.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)At this point we have an issues that is unprecedented in recent times....Lunacy!!
The link below illustrates exactly what Im talking about.
Im just suggesting that we all must remember what we are dealing with..Extraordinary measures
for extraordinary circumstances.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/17/tennessee-republican-tells-girl-her-father-has-to-be-deported-as-tea-party-crowd-cheers/
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)However, I would still say that Obama's NSA policies are just another symptom of unprecedented lunacy in recent times that must be opposed vigorously and unrelentingly.
BTW, I just put a brief, sad note on that thread.
Caretha
(2,737 posts)thank you, thank you. You have articulated everything a true Democrat believes. You have succinctly, liberally and intelligently put many things into perspective and spoken the truth.
All other posts regarding these issues are just noise.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)with reality..The people who are trying to shut our govt, down and are all in on destroying the economic and social fabric of our country can not be reasoned with..
Well written verse articulating why we as progressives must entirely focus on Obamas role in the NSA
spying scandal might be valid in normal times..But dear lady all bets are off when you are dealing
with the clinically insane... These people are filled with vile and hate and must be dealt with appropriately and quickly..All eyes and arms must now be focused on the upcoming election cycles..
For if we loose the House,Senate and Presidency our country will be paralyzed for several decades.
Your comments concerning all other posts being invalid does not help our situation..
In the meantime please remind yourself how much out of touch and cruel these people are, please watch the attached link..http://www.occupydemocrats.com/watch-tea-party-crowd-cheer-as-gop-rep-tells-young-girl-her-father-must-be-deported/
Caretha
(2,737 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:06 AM - Edit history (1)
can still chew gum & talk & walk at the same time.
Your post to me has nothing to do with my comments regarding Jack Rabbit's post, which incidently was not about shutting the "government down", nor did he state anywhere or suggest that "progressives must entirely focus on Obama's role in the NSA spying scandal" <-----your words.
Your attempt to pull out the ol' boogey man and by using hyperbolic phrases like,
You have demonstrated exactly what I ended my last post with perfectly -
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)your attitude might be a little different.. Or if you were a teacher or a public sector job worker and after several decades of working your guts out,, come to find out that your pension is no more...I just wonder if you would still be conflating these type of issues with a boogeyman.
Sounds to me like you are pretty well settled in and can watch from the bleachers!!
Yea, NSA spying crap is an issue all right, but it is a fact that if boogeyman gets a hold of the NSA, by
then it will be too late...
dkf
(37,305 posts)If we don't expose and stop it now IT NEVER ENDS.
And YOU will be complicit for trying to bury it.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)Or dont vote at all... If what would happened next is a teabagger House a Republican Senate and a Christie Presidency...I wonder who would then be complicit..
No, Ill take a stance against the NSA bullshit.. But Im aimed at something more important right now..
dkf
(37,305 posts)I really hope Howard Dean comes down in the right side of this issue.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Ok. That's a great idea. Best idea of the year.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,346 posts)Have you arranged for direct deposit yet?
& Rec
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)Im just wondering...
It simply amazes me how the so called Liberals on D.U. care so much .....
Hows that..??
Whisp
(24,096 posts)I thought everyone did....
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)all part of the 'big government' theme
we need to remained focused on 2014
Cha
(296,846 posts)no doubt agrees. and you know snowden wants it so. Believing rand doesn't fall very far from daddy ron's tree. He'll be cheering behind pooty's pants.
Those three are always whining about President Obama so it only follows that their fans would reguritate the same.