What would had happened if 9/11 had not happened...

[LiberalFighter]

and we had not had wars in Iraq or Afghanistan?

What would be the position of the members of Congress regarding Syria? Would our relationship with the UN be better?

[iandhr]

1. Its pointless to think about stuff like that.

9/11 did happen.

There was absolutely just cause to invade Afghanistan. There was a UN mandate for action.

Iraq is a different story entirely

[Carolina]

5. "just cause to invade Afghanistan"

Really?

Terrorism is not a nation/state; it is mobile cells. bin Laden and al Quaeda were our guys on the ground when the Russians invaded Afghanistan but al Quaeda is all over the ME and beyond now. And more blowback is coming our way because of our meddling actions (Iran 1953), our support of Israel (right or wrong -- usually) and because of our wars of aggression (Iraq 1991, 2003)

BTW, should we have bombed Florida and Arizona because the 9/11 pilots learned their flight skills in aviation schools in those states Should we bomb Britain which is now being shown to be source of Syria's gas

[Hippo_Tron]

7. Bin Laden's base of operations was Afghanistan after Suadi Arabia and Sudan kicked him out

If the Taliban had done the same, there never would've been an invasion.

[Carolina]

9. And that war against Afghanistan,

that invasion and >10 year ground war has worked so well at getting that base of operations?! :sarcasm

Afghanistan is not better off, al Quaeda's mobile cells are all over the ME (including among the rebels Obomber is supporting in Syria) and here at home, we can't afford food stamps, meals on wheels, Headstart, etc

But Afghanistan sure was justified!

[Hippo_Tron]

10. It certainly has not been a wise decision to stay, perhaps even not a wise one to invade

But allowing Bin Laden to continue to operate out of Afghanistan after 9/11 wasn't a viable alternative. Perhaps we could've negotiated his exile from Afghanistan, giving him basically nowhere to go.

[iandhr]

12. The first gulf war was not a war of aggression.

Iraq was the aggressor by invading Kuwait.


There was an international mandate for that war. NATO the UN and Arab league all backed it.

[karynnj]

16. Senator Lugar referred to it as a war for oil in a SFRC where Jimmy Carter was the witness

From my memory - The Gulf War started as a dispute between Iraq and Kuwait with Iraq claiming that Kuwait was stealing their oil by slant drilling. Our ambassador told Saddam that we would not get involved in a dispute between the arab countries -- then Iraq invaded.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

11. just cause?

[blkmusclmachine]

2. Operation: Northwoods

The 9/11 You Never Knew

[Agschmid]

6. Well that is a horrifying thing to Google.

...

Yup.

[alsame]

3. Iraq would have happened

anyway, it was part of the PNAC plan from the 90s. Other than claims that Iraq was somehow connected to 9/11, they would have used all the same lies.

[Carolina]

4. thank you

they made sure it happened

[Hippo_Tron]

8. It's basically the same question as what if the Supreme Court hadn't handed the election to Bush

Bush's presidency combined with 9/11 enabled the Neo-cons full reign to do what they wanted for 8 years. Without 9/11 Bush would've been an unremarkable one term President. Without the Supreme Court Bush the election, a Gore Administration would've handled 9/11 very differently.

[madinmaryland]

13. I agree with you on that assessment. Bush would definitely been a one-term president

if 9/11 had never happened.

I think if Gore had been president, then 9/11 probably would never have happened, though I don't know if Gore would have been a two term president.

[Cosmocat]

15. I agree

he was already in trouble on 9-10-01.

He barely got reelected WITH them using 9-11.

[davidpdx]

17. I agree

To think about what would have happened on 9/11 you have to go back to the election the previous year. That is when things truly started to go bad. 9/11 was just one (albeit big) link in a bad chain in events that led us to where we are today. Given that an alternative reality doesn't exist, we'll never know for sure what would have happened had things gone the other way.

[CTyankee]

18. 9/11 would have never happened if Gore had won. Remember that Clinton tried to warn Bush's

people that Osama Bin Laden was our biggest security threat. The Bush people said "Oh, no. We have to switch to a Star Wars defense." My guess is that Bin Laden got wind of that and knew that Bush would take his eye off the ball and wouldn't be working as feverishly as Clinton had to defeat him. It was like handing him his opportunity to strike on a silver platter. Gore most surely knew a LOT about bin Laden and would have taken the same position as Clinton. Our defenses would have been strongly up and bin Laden's opportunity would never have presented itself.

[phleshdef]

14. John Kerry would've clearly won in 2004, I think.