2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI've never seen such a divisive, bombastic, jingoistic primary speech in my life.
Gingrich wins So. Carolina and all but calls Obama an anti-American socialist commie. Oh, wait.
He actually did that, in so many words.
The man is dangerous, imo. His rhetoric is inflammatory. His politics are base. I think he has little chance to go the route for the (R) nomination, but it's so disheartening to hear the vitriol.
gateley
(62,683 posts)K Gardner
(14,933 posts)Unleash Hell.. and the crowd goes wild. It's a blood sport now.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12513159
Hey gately ! Long time no see
gateley
(62,683 posts)How have you been?
Thanks for the link - WOW.
Orangepeel
(13,933 posts)But hell, I'm glad I didn't have Saul Alinski in the Gingrich speech drinking game
K Gardner
(14,933 posts)I had the Lincoln-Douglas debates. Next time, I'll go with socialist.
elleng
(130,768 posts)Was so hoping to watch Doc Martin.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I don't believe he will get near the Presidency, but then I didn't think George Bush would either. If he does become President either through compromised elections or the supreme court, I will leave the country this time before he completes the transition of this country into a banana republic, police state. I can't take it any more.
gateley
(62,683 posts)a crisis. I think we MAY be able to stop it from plummeting off the edge, but I'm not sure. What I AM sure of is that if Gingrich (or any Republican candidate) were to get the WH, we'd be tossed off and America would die.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Newt is an angry, bitter, vindictive, psycho. We know that.
He didn't do well in Iowa or NH because not every Republican is insane. Although lots of them are.
Newt did win SC ... why? Because most of the Republicans THERE are "angry, bitter, vindictive, psychos", just like Newt. Most of them are also racist, and Newt is willing to throw them some civil war rhetoric.
The Republicans who vote for Mittens will NEVER vote for Newt. They are corporatist jerks, yes, but they are not nearly as crazy as the folks Newt is courting.
The folks voting for Newt do not care what happens to the US economy. Those voting for Romney do.
The DOW is up about 5000 points since the day Obama took office. Now matter how much Newt or Romney claims that Obama is "bad for business", they can't refute that simple statistic. The business community would prefer Romney over Obama, but my bet is that they would rather Obama over Newt.
Newt will be too crazy for them.
I'm not suggesting we get complacent ... we need to be ready to take on either of them, because both would suck big time. But my sense is that the entire GOP won't be able to get behind either one.
gateley
(62,683 posts)very vocal GOPers saying Newt would be a disaster. They were willing to break Reagan's Eleventh Commandment of never speaking ill of other Republicans. They were pretty brutal - it was surprising.
And you make a point about not every Republican being crazy.
Thanks for making so much sense.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)I posted that in a hurry, because I had to go do something else, then when I came back and I read it again (it was still on my screen), and I worried that I might have come across in an "oh please spare me" tone ... which was not my intent. So thanks for not reading it that way.
I know plenty of Republicans who are not insane. Although most of them are now calling themselves independent. They would consider Mitt, they don't hate Obama (some are turning to him), but they would never vote for Newt, Perry, Santorum, Bachmann ...
My sense (hope) is that the GOP is imploding. Its collapsing in on that small, angry, crazy group, getting smaller and smaller ... while chasing everyone else out.
gateley
(62,683 posts)It didn't come across that way at ALL, but I know we can't hear each other's inflections or tone and a post is always subject to interpretation.
And again, I do appreciate your message.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Because if I wasn't outside watching my dog squat and pinch one out, I probably would have seen Newt's speech.
unc70
(6,109 posts)Notice all the code words. San Francisco is code for gay. Food stamps, welfare queen, the elite, people power beating big money. White victimhood, entitlement, government taking from you, populist, dependence, Saul Alinsky, ...
There you go again.
Close to the "real Americans" vs the Other.
Newt knows how to trigger all the code words.
AlinPA
(15,071 posts)pinto
(106,886 posts)gateley
(62,683 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)in November.
Americans are frustrated and angry. Newt is speaking to that.
Obama feels he has to be the grown-up, the responsible person who quietly urges people to remain calm.
Will Americans vote their anger or will they decide to vote for the more rational of the two candidates. That is the emotional level on which a Gingrich/Obama campaign would be fought.
Mitt isn't angry. He does not understand the frustrations of middle class Republicans and never will.
Both Mitt and Obama suffer from the fact that, at this moment, their calm and rationality is perceived by the voters as being cold, impersonal even cruel.
Newt's lashing out at the question about his asking his second wife, Marianne for an "open" marriage really won the S.C. primary. Not that the voters are pro-open-marriages, but that they wanted to see that flash of temper, that anger. This is not a good sign, guys. Not good.
Let's hope that Obama comes on strong without losing his cool between now and November. Don't take anything for granted.
pinto
(106,886 posts)He's not the liberal firebrand many thought they were electing, but he remains warm, personal and engaging. And, yes, politically calculating. Don't think he'll lose his cool between now and November.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)That was great in 2008. But people became angry after the economic crash. Obama is beginning to show some outrage, but he will need to get a lot more "fired up" if he is to inspire independent voters. I think he can do it, but it will take a little effort on his part.
Obama's self-assured coolness contrasted very well with McCain's insecure flustering, but how would it compare to the blustering of a Gingrich.
pinto
(106,886 posts)Gingrich, imo, won't make it through the primaries. He'll manage to alienate much of his own party, save the teabagger contingent, along the way. Or just simply implode under the weight of his own ego and vitriol. Cool might well work, though, given a Gingrich candidacy. He's a loose cannon.
Target in the general is likely to be Romney. And, I agree, a more fired up Democratic response to that candidacy would be a good move.
All conjecture on my part, of course. And, fwiw, I think Obama will do well personally against either Republican candidate.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)A lot of it is up to Democrats, and part of our job is giving feedback.
I don't think that anyone in D.C. understands how bad Americans feel, especially the people who owned small businesses that went belly-up during the recent downturn. They are now losing their homes. It's pretty embittering for many of them.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)You sound as if this is a quality you admire, and you want Newt-level "temper" and "anger" from this president as well: as if getting red in the face and mad is the silver bullet that will cure all ills. As if righteous indignation is an end in itself. Your post really scares me.
I have known this all along: the left's anger at Obama is the same as the right's anger at anyone who is halfway sane on their side. Both want great gnashing of teeth and red-hot rhetoric, and that's about it. God help America if this is where we're headed.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)But I don't think Democrats should be so sure that he cannot be elected.
We see through him. But put yourself behind the eyes of the average Fox viewer. And that includes a lot of independents.
gateley
(62,683 posts)Emotions would win, I think.
You nailed it - Newt is speaking to the frustration and anger and whipping it up into an even bigger frenzy by portending it will become WORSE if Obama is allowed to remain POTUS.
I don't discount Newt at all. I don't discount any of them.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)And in a state that would still have a philandering governor if he hadn't hiked the Appalachian trail all the way to Argentina.
Candidates declare war on the press at their peril.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)I don't think you get how many people HATE Newt Gingrich and think he would be a disaster of a president. I am in Utah and am hearing people who despise Obama saying they will vote Obama in 2012 if it's Gingrich. This from people who've never voted Republicans in their lives.
Gingrich lacks the money and organization to battle Obama. He'd be their McGovern.
provis99
(13,062 posts)Coughlin said the same sort of things about FDR and his supporters.
eppur_se_muova
(36,247 posts)If Newt wins that, he'll be so puffed up they won't be able to fit anyone else on stage !
DCBob
(24,689 posts)He knows their hot buttons and knows how to push them... not unlike a little man with a mustache many decades ago.
Kath1
(4,309 posts)...the more committed I am to doing everything I can to support Obama. The last thing we need in this country is another "Bush-esque" administration.
Grateful for Hope
(39,320 posts)I hope you right about his chances. He is a very dangerous man. Although, I think they are all dangerous.
GeorgeGist
(25,311 posts)Kinda explains his anti-socialism.
tallahasseedem
(6,716 posts)a lot worse between now and the election.