Jewish leaders ‘infuriated’ by Bush speech at ‘Jews for Jesus’ fundraiser

[UCmeNdc]

On Monday night’s edition of her show, MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow addressed the fallout of former President George W. Bush’s decision to speak at a fundraiser at the Messianic Jewish Bible Institute, the headquarters for the apocalyptic Christian sect Jews for Jesus. Jewish leaders in particular were disappointed in Bush, one calling the appearance “infuriating.”

Jews for Jesus is an evangelical Christian splinter group, a small but well-funded cabal of believers whose faith decrees that all Jews must be converted to Christianity and repatriated to Israel in order to hasten the Rapture and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/12/maddow-jewish-leaders-infuriated-by-bush-speech-at-jews-for-jesus-fundraiser/

[TwilightGardener]

1. Are there any actual Jews in "Jews for Jesus"? Because that would be like

"Chickens For Colonel Sanders".

[frazzled]

2. No, it's evangelical Christians

Jews for Jesus is a totally oxymoronic concept. The most basic tenet of Judaism, and its original progress over ancient religions, was the concept of a single deity. The prayer called the "Sh'ma" is central to every Jewish prayer service, and it affirms faith in the one God. So while Jews respect the teachings and moral values of the historical Jesus, never in a million years would a Jew be able to ascribe divinity to him, as the "Christ." And they certainly could not pray to him or any other entity other than "Adonai."

This might be as hard for Christians to understand as it is hard for Jews to understand how Jesus could be thought of as the divine son of God.

[sakabatou]

4. Could be tied to a Greek or Roman concept of the demigod

And you're right, The Jews for Jesus movement aren't really Jews; they're Christians.

[libdem4life]

6. Also, the Muslims. And, all three claim Abraham as their Father. Incredibly complicated.

[grantcart]

8. Are you saying that it is impossible for Jews to convert to Christianity?

I have met several.

I have also know Christians that have converted to Judaism, Buddhists that converted to Islam (sister in law) and Christians who have converted to Buddhism (me).

I went to school with a Jewish girl who converted to Christianity through Jews for Jesus and then joined a mainline protestant denomination.

Understanding how obnoxious JFJ is I share the widespread revulsion against the group and especially against the name I am not sure if you are actually suggesting that no Jew could ever convert or if you are simply saying that if a person converted they would no longer be "a Jew".

[frazzled]

9. No, not at all

People do it all the time. They then become Christians (not Jews).

I'm saying it's impossible to be Jewish—that is to say, to practice the religion of Judaism, as this group claims to do—while embracing the divinity of Jesus. They're two concepts at odds.

[karynnj]

10. Thank you for writing this

It does a beautiful job explaining why you can't be both.

[lastlib]

3. I'm infuriated with Bush, too--and I'm not Jewish.

[libdem4life]

5. Jesus was a Hebrew. Whether it's a religion or a DNA matter, remains divisive. One of the problems

is that there are traditionally thought to be five races. The Arab race covers a host of ancient and current cultural groups...one of which is Hebrew who came to identify with Judaism as a religion which started around or split off around 2,000 BC. The idea that one can change religions is one thing, but changing a race is seems unlikely. So for those who think it's a race, there can be no conversion. Those who want to convert, must believe that it is a religion...thus denouncing the racial aspect.

It's theologically challenging, for both Jews and Christians, since the entire New Testament Book of Revelations...the summation of Christianity and supposedly life on the planet, links specifically 144,000 Jewish conversions of what some contend cannot possibly be...a conversion of race, rather than religion.

From a Christian fundamentalist point of view, they are literally and unabashedly trying to hurry up and convert the 144,000, which is what the Apostle John, considered to be a Jew who converted, wrote as the condition of The Second Coming of Jesus. Of course, this automatically assumes Jesus was resurrected, which is the basis of Christian theology and the basic point of Jewish disagreement.

Then to make it even more complex, there are those who claim there is no one human being who was Jesus ... that it was more of a group of wandering prophets, based on lack of physical evidence and that none of the New Testament writers were contemporaries.

Pretty easy to see how Pat Robertson and George Bush and Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin can get pretty wound up about all of this, and how the traditional Jewish community is rightfully upset.

Disclaimer: I am an agnostic, by choice.

[pink-o]

7. Hey, it seems even Israel is confused re religion/ethnicity!

My dad is Jewish and raised Orthodox, Mom's English Grannie was a whack-job Xian fundie who spawned 3 generations of unbelievers. (I too am agnostic, Mom and Granddad were atheists.)

So Israel would grant me instant citizenship...IF my DNA were reversed, and Mom had been Jewish. Hebrew law is Matriarchal, and even though I'm not religious I'd get residency.

However...I could still live there if I wanted, provided I CONVERTED to Judaism. WTF? So is it a religion or an ethnicity? And since the Matriarchal line was used centuries ago because no one really knew who your daddy was, isn't it time to put that to rest? My DNA shows Ashkenazi and Anglo/Celt. That should be good enough.

Oh, and BTW, I don't have any wish to live in Israel. To me, it's like 21st century Apartheid, so no thank you!

[karynnj]

11. It does get confusing

My husband was born to a Jewish family. I converted. The "Jewishness" of our kids actually depends on the acceptance of my conversion.

The odd thing is that his cousin converted to Christianity, married a Christian and raised a lovely daughter who is close in age to my girls. The funny thing is that if their cousin wanted to claim Jewish heritage - there would be no problem. For some, my three girls, in spite of their Hebrew school attendance and B’not Mitzvah might not be as easily accepted.

[libdem4life]

12. Way complicated...still interesting how all three Abrahamic religions still cling, with the

Christians being the latest into the ME mix. I pray, but don't think this ends well.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

13. Jews for Jesus is an oxymoron.

They are a front group for Southern Baptists.

More info: www.jewsforjudaism.com

I think Judaism is a religion, and not a race, because anybody can convert.

My husband and I once wanted to convert and join a Classical Reform congregation. Classical Reform means no beanies and no prayer shawls because those are external trappings. It started in Germany in the late 19th century. And nearly everything in the prayer book is in English.

The rabbi was cool. He wanted us to convert, but the rich doctors on the board didn't want us because we were both unemployed at the time. We had offered to volunteer our time at the shul instead of dues, but the board didn't want that. Also they were confused, because they had never had a couple that both wanted to convert, and it wasn't a case of one Jew dragging a non-Jewish spouse in to convert. It never occurred to them that one of them could HIRE us and solve that problem, since we are both highly skilled and educated.

So these many years later, we're still UUs with no congregation to hang out at. We met at a large urban UU church.

[Hippo_Tron]

16. The synagogue "dues" model always bothered me, I liked how Christians welcomed everyone (in theory)

In practice of course, they often don't actually welcome certain people for any number of reasons. But still, it always bothered me that being Jewish inherently involved in something that was blatantly a closed off community.

Reform Judaism is going to have to re-examine a lot of its practices in the coming years to survive. Synagogue dues are expensive and the economy blows. Orthodox and most Conservatives will pay them because they have a stronger connection to the faith. Those of us looking for a more casual connection and are looking mostly to give the immerse our kids in the tradition a bit, aren't going to shell out the cash.

[Always Randy]

14. And another thing!---about Jesus and his appearance--Pat Boone look alike or

Yasar Arafat-------------I'd say he looked a lot like Arafat because of where he lived---not Macon Georgia like the blond, blue eyed Mr. Boone

[DFW]

15. I was more infuriated when Bush was declared President

Thank goodness I was not raised to get upset over someone's religion.

I have some Jewish ancestry. My wife comes from about 600 years of straight Catholics, and has the genealogy to prove it.

We raised our children without religion, and made sure to let them know that we would support them if they found some religion that they found so convincing that they decided to follow it. They learned about religion in school, but were not forced to adopt any of them. So far, they choose, as do my wife and myself, to follow the proverbial "none of the above." It not only keeps us well away from fundraisers like the one Bush went to, but also from getting upset over it because he did. Now, letting Cheney talk him into invading Iraq? THAT was "infuriating." This? This is stuff for Bill Maher and Comedy Central.

I remember the "Jews for Jesus" were starting to make some noise on my college campus way back when. Most serious students were more concerned about finding some "Cues for Thesis."

There are more important things in life to worry about than whose Flying Spaghetti Monster is the "true one."

[Hippo_Tron]

17. Personally, I don't have any less regard for them than any other right wing fundie groups...

But I have some empathy for those who get upset about it. Somewhere between a half and a third of our current population was wiped off the face of the earth just decades ago.

[polynomial]

18. Bush is “Noided out” as in paranoid.

This is what Rachel Maddow does best, avoid the real juicy history of the Bush family. Bush’s history going back to grandpa Prescott Bush is so dripping wet sexy in treason, corruption, and war profiteering many know the deep secrets likely a frightful haunting cousin maybe a Snowden type lurks in the electromagnetic shadows.

Some considered Auschwitz the most haunted location in the world. Yikes or maybe Iraq will compete with it. Grandpa Prescott Bush would be proud of George, doing a great job syphoning a few trillion from the tax system and displacing millions while murdering hundreds of thousands of men women and children and thousands of Americans too. According to Gerald Posners book “Secrets of the Kingdom” Prescott Bush and family are proud participants in the building of the concentration camps in Poland. Now seems logical America has a Gitmo. Plus Bush was one of the financiers of the Nazi tea party.

Even back then the Bush family was submerged in banking scandals and war profiteering with pay offs, enough obviously to get a stay out of jail card. This family is pure evil connected and loaded with money it is more than pathetic.

From my view that inspires Michael Medved in a radio show that discussed the schooling of intelligent design or debate school curriculum by Darwin. Medved is the right wing jumping jack of switch and bait, always crowing three times. Medved is converting the language rather then the religion. He is a right wing Jew boy, that is extraordinary and plenipotentiary.