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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 04:47 PM Jan 2014

TPP? Who gains? Who loses?

We need to deal with some big problems on the national scale before we hand our sovereignty and self-determination on economic issues over to some trade agreement's council on something-or-other. The TPP will just add one more to the problems from which we have suffrered since we entered into NAFTA and other trade agreements: our unprecedented unfavorable balance of trade and displacement of peoples, especially indigenous peoples and environmental damage and low wages, and, and, and.

One major problem that we need to deal with internally is our disparity in wealth. With each trade agreement, that disparity grows. The answer is not in importing more and cheaper products so that even those who have very little money can still have the illusion of having enough "stuff" even though the "stuff" falls apart as soon as they buy it. Being able to shop at the dollar stores is not equal to being able to get a good job and contribute to society while earning a good living for your family. We can import cheap goods, but rents and utilities and other costs go up all the time.

We have to do something about the disparity in wealth in our country. Obama suggested raising wages. That's great, but if an American paying $850 a month for rent has to compete with people overseas who can survive on $2 per hour paying almost no rent and living without running water or decent heat or education, we have just created a bigger problem than we already have. We cannot afford to maintain our American style of living for most of us while importing goods we buy at the dollar store. And the goods we buy at the dollar stores and Walmart-type stores are what are dragging our wages down and closing down our industry.

So, let's try to get a handle on the serious problems we are having and that we will bequeath to future generations -- and then talk about free trade.

The onus for persuading Americans to back additional trade bills is on those who want the bills. The negotiations have to be between Americans who lose out every time we enter into a new trade agreement and the corporations and 1%ers who stand to gain from the trade agreements. I don't think that those Americans who lose out because of trade agreements were represented at all in the TPP negotiations. That is wrong.

When Obama and other presidents appoint commissions on issues or problems, they always appoint business representatives and scholars, maybe a trade union representative, But they never appoint a person who is earning minimum wage in spite of having a college degree. They never appoint single moms or the guy who drives a truck. Yet it is these people (who apparently aren't important enough to get to sit on a commission or at least have someone with their interests on a commission) whose voices are ignored, whose needs are ignored, whose interests are relegated to no man's land. That is the problem with commissions and trade talks and all those serious folks we see on TV.

No to the TPP. And let's get our country into shape before we go trading away our ability to govwern ourselves.

7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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TPP? Who gains? Who loses? (Original Post) JDPriestly Jan 2014 OP
Winners: the top 1%. Losers: the bottom 99%. blkmusclmachine Jan 2014 #1
Exactly! JDPriestly Jan 2014 #2
we don't *have to* be a part of that trade agreement, it's gone on without us for decades. Sunlei Jan 2014 #3
You make my point. JDPriestly Jan 2014 #5
These days they don't always appoint scholars or trade union reps either... polichick Jan 2014 #4
Kicked and recommended a whole bunch.....nt Enthusiast Jan 2014 #6
Almost all will feel the pain. Jakes Progress Jan 2014 #7

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
3. we don't *have to* be a part of that trade agreement, it's gone on without us for decades.
Fri Jan 31, 2014, 09:44 AM
Jan 2014

But I think our major industries want to expand exports to more customers. There are billions of new consumers in those trade agreement countries. Be a shame to not be a part of that, the USA would lose a lot of revenue. Todays countries use trade agreements.

I'm just not sure what would happen with trade agreements when Americans will pay high prices for things like RX drugs and dairy products, yet the industry will sell for low prices to other countries. And American consumers are blocked from buying low cost RX medicines from Canada and India.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
5. You make my point.
Fri Jan 31, 2014, 02:05 PM
Jan 2014

But I think our major industries want to expand exports to more customers.

Big corporations want to be able to make lots of money in exports. Problem is they don't really want to employ Americans to make those products. They want to be able to import cheap products from other parts of the world to America.

The "major industries" want the US military to protect them, their patents, their contracts, etc., but they do not want to share their profits with the American people. They don't want to pay American taxes or settle disputes in American civil courts. They just want to use Americans and the American military might to protect their financial interests.

I'm saying let them negotiate with the American people. We cannot afford to just be their footstool anymore.

I remember an America in which people lived in small towns and on farms and were moving to the cities to take jobs in American manufacturing. We had won WWII. Prices were low. Moms really had a choice about staying at home. Going to work was harder to do.

Today, many, many Americans live in cramped houses or apartments in the cities and suburbs. We were lured here by jobs that paid well. In came Reagan and his trade agreement policies. And factories left. Our population is still located in cities. But the good jobs are gone.

Another trade agreement will, as Ross Perot said (and we laughed at him?) suck our jobs South.

We don't want another trade agreement. The price we will pay to make big corporations profitable will be too high.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
4. These days they don't always appoint scholars or trade union reps either...
Fri Jan 31, 2014, 12:21 PM
Jan 2014

Industry insiders sit on commissions and are hired for cabinet positions - to hell with the people.

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