Trumped Up Wars

[kairos12]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/02/1281587/-Egands-it-s-terrible-when-SOMEONE-ELSE-starts-wars-with-trumped-up-excuses
snip:

"You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text," Kerry told the CBS program "Face the Nation."

Iraq was in the 21st century. Sen. John Kerry voted for it.
Nice moral authority you have there, John.

Nothing to add really.

[RobertEarl]

1. He voted Aye

But his heart wasn't in it.

Given the propensity for most Democrats to allow bush to get his war on, Kerry just went along with them. He got his reward by being nominated for president by the PTB of the party.

The Truth is what matters, today. And Kerry may be able to keep the warmongers at bay. Let's hope he crushes their sorry asses this time, eh?

[JayhawkSD]

3. You realize, don't you, that makes it worse?

It means he voted against his beliefs. Why? Presumably for political reasons; to assure his reelection; to maintian his and/or/ his partie's hold on power. He knew it was wrong, but he voted for it anyway because it was expedient, so we will excuse him for doing it.

I am on the opposite side of that. I would excuse him for the wrong vote if he said, "Well, it turned out badly but I really beklieved it was the right thing to do."

You excuse him because he says, "Well, I knew it was the wrong thing, but I would have lost votes if I didn't."

[RobertEarl]

4. No excuses here

Just trying to understand where he was coming from.

The aye vote was to allow bush to move forward with the UN blessing to do something about WMD. Read that again and tell me if that is how you remember it.

Kerry had his eye on being president. Nobody in that position is going to ignore the ramifications that a major vote would have on such aspirations. It's the nature of USian politics.

Kerry argued against bush's maneuvers but in the end had to balance the idea that there actually might have been WMD in Iraq. That was the precept for invasion. Were it true that is grounds for an attack.

Now that is not how I feel - grounds- but that was the reason for the Kerry vote. Look, blaming Kerry for what bush did is kinda dumb. Blaming the US for what bush did is wise. We should all be ashamed.

You can be assured Kerry is, and now he has chances to rectify that and make amends, and I believe his heart is in that.

[JayhawkSD]

5. And you make my point.

"Kerry had his eye on being president." And that was more important to him that being right on the issue.

"...had to balance the idea that there actually might have been WMD in Iraq." Then he was an idiot. It was readily apparent that most of what the Bush administration was pushing was nonsense. Powell's presentation to the UN was blatantly dishonest. Most of Europe knew there was no WMDs in Iraq. Bush ordered the inspectors, who told us there were no WMDs, out of Iraq even as our "shock and awe" mission was being fueled and armed.

It is hard to believe that anyone, after all these years, is still insisting that "there actually might have been WMD in Iraq," or that anyone with half a brain actually believed that such was the case.

Kerry, like many of his scurrilous ilk, put his personal political ambition ahead of his duty to his nation.

[RobertEarl]

6. Yes. I did. So what?

I didn't believe there were WMD in Iraq. But most of the f'n idiots in this country did. And that is what Kerry was responding to. Yes. He actually f'n needed a lot of those idiots to vote for him so he could replace bush. Guess what? The f'n idiots and the voting f'n machines didn't work so well for Kerry did they?

You really want to blame someone, it is the millions of F'n idiots in this country that believed in WMD and that believed in the voting machines and believed bush.

Your harping on one man isn't gonna do one damn thing for you or the Ukraine or even put bush in f'n prison, is it? EH? Or is that your point all in all? A deflection form bush? Is that what you are trying to do? Because if it is, you're doing a damn fine job of it.

[JayhawkSD]

7. Um, the original topic was about that one man.

But I'm not going to continue the argument with you.

[burfman]

2. vietnam -> iraq

How's it go... fool me once the joke's on you, fool me twice the joke's on me....
Amazing how many of us that knew for sure that the excuse for Vietnam was trumped up - (Kerry and Powell are just two examples at the top of the list - many others follow), went along with the non-existent 'weapons of mass destruction' as a pretext to invade Iraq.

- see the wikipedia entry for 'Gulf of Tonkin incident' at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

- see the wikipedia entry for 'Iraq and weapons of mass destruction' at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction