Voting in Texas: A Handgun License is OK, a Student ID is Not

[KamaAina]

http://wonkwire.rollcall.com/2014/10/20/voting-texas-handgun-license-ok-student-id/

Rebecca Leber: “Texans casting a ballot on Monday, when early voting begins, will need to show one of seven forms of photo ID. A concealed handgun license is okay, but a student ID isn’t. The Supreme Court on Saturday allowed Texas to go forward with this controversial voter ID.”

As Ian Millhiser argued at ThinkProgress: “If a confused voter brings an ID to the polls that they do not need to have, they will still get to cast a ballot. But if the same voter mistakenly forgets their ID (or fails to obtain one) because they were confused and believed that their state’s voter ID law was not in effect, then they will be disenfranchised.”

“Actual voter fraud, which is the problem that Republican legislation supposedly addresses, is difficult to find … The consequences of voter ID laws, on the other hand, are much easier to track … Existing ID requirements reduced turnout in some states during the last presidential election, particularly among young and black voters. Now, imagine the impact is even larger, because it is spread over the 33 states that now require some form of photo ID to vote. (And) costs of acquiring the needed ID ranged between $14.50 to $58.50 for 17 of the states.”

Can you say "poll tax", kids? Mr. KamaAina can!

[GGJohn]

1. That's because a student ID doesn't prove that you are a citizen of TX.

A TX CHL means you're a citizen of TX, while a college ID only means you attend a TX college, it doesn't mean you're a citizen of TX.

Now, that said, having to show ID to vote is just plain wrong.

[Downwinder]

2. A voter registration proves you are a citizen.

All the I.D. is necessary for is to show you are that person.

[Igel]

6. Not especially relevant.

I'm a US citizen.

While it could be argued that when voting for president that's enough, it's not enough for nearly anything else. Senator? The Senator represents the state, not the country. Representative? Represents a smaller in-state district.

Governor? State senator or representative? Mayor?

However, even the way the presidential election is set up voters vote for their state's representatives to the electoral college. We don't have truly national elections.

When deciding such offices, the local population--not an arbitrarily large transient population--should make the decisions as to who's going to represent them. Heck, this I believe to the extent that when I moved from California shortly before an election I opted not to vote--it would have been legal to cast my ballot, but I was about to leave the state and believed that helping to decide who would run things "in my interests" after I left and could have no legitimate interests to be morally wrong.

[Hippo_Tron]

7. Bullshit, transient populations pay local taxes just like everyone else

They have every right to vote on the local representatives who collect and spend that money.

[hack89]

12. No state allows transient population to vote in local elections without acquiring residency. nt

[Justice]

10. Fatal flaw relying on gun registration or drivers license etc. as proof of residency in a state

Just because you have a gun registration or a drivers license from a state, it does not mean you still live in that state.

Example, I was just involved in a hit and run in a Northeast state - the car who hit me had Texas plates. I was able to the plate number (heavy traffic made the driver's "run" very slow).

I went to the state police with the plate number. The police told me there is a person with that unusual name with an address near the scene of the accident, as well as an address in TX. They have a TX drivers license and no license in my state.

So is the person a resident of TX or a resident of my Northeast state?

A complicated question I know - about intent, I know - but my point is that just having a gun registration card or a drivers license does not in in of itself PROVE residency at the time you are voting. Presumption maybe, but not absolute proof.

I suspect the driver moved here but kept the TX plates because the insurance is so much cheaper in TX.

Ironically, TX will not provide the state police in my state with the insurance information or any other information of this hit and run driver due to privacy rules - isn't that amazing.

A voter registration does not prove citizenship. Would at best prove residency. Some states require you prove you are a US citizen to be able to register in a federal election.

[Thinkingabout]

26. Interesting, I live in Texas, sold a vehicle to someone in another state and the vehicle was

involved in an accident and because of the age of the car it was totaled and sold again to someone in Texas again. The vehicle was again involved in a hit and run accident in Texas and they sent me a registered letter telling me to provided the insurance information for the vehicle. I went back to the person I sold the vehicle to and their insurance company provided the necessary information of the vehicle being registered in another state and the vehicle had been sold as salvage. Guess they provide information as they deem. Also in Texas we had a case of Bruce Fleming who ran for office in Fort Bend County, was registered to vote in Pennsylvania and Texas because he claimed he thought he could do so because he owned a home in both states. BTW, he is also a friend of the "True the Vote" lady and he ran as a Republican.

[Gothmog]

3. The Texas law serves one purpose which is to suppress the vote

[world wide wally]

4. They are killing our democracy with the help of the Supreme Court… Plain and simple.

[brooklynite]

5. Cleary the solution is to have all the minority voters register for handgun permits...

...let the GOP fight it out with the NRA.

[greymattermom]

19. Exactly what I just thought

So how much does a handgun permit cost in Texas?

[Kablooie]

8. Of course. Republicans shoot guns. Democrats get an education.

It's really telling that Republicans need to rig the vote in order to win.

If the country ever got a chance to have an honest representative vote the Republicans would disappear and they know it.

[Rozlee]

9. Hah! It's backfiring on them in Texas.

Minority districts are voting heavily right now. Republicans just got people angry. In El Paso county, which is heavily Hispanic, the voter turnout is almost three times what it was in 2010. I just read that African-Americans are voting in large numbers in Georgia too. That law of unintended consequences always seems to come calling on Republicans and they never seem to learn from it.

[hack89]

11. People not eligible to vote in Texas can get Student IDs

the reason a handgun license is good is that you have to prove you are a Texas resident. Same as a driver's license.

That being said, I oppose voter ID laws.

[progree]

13. Veterans ID not allowed either? Imagine if it was the Dems who were restricting veterans'

right to vote. You would have the RW media, and probably the mainstream media, harping on this 24/7 --

So why aren't the Dems harping on this, when it is the RepubliCONS who are keeping our veterans from voting?

[font color = red]Edited to Add:[/font]

Ooops, I looked at my Google results page again after posting and ran across this:

In Justice Ginsburg’s 6-page dissent in the Texas voter id case, she writes: “Nor will Texas accept photo ID cards issued by the U. S. Department of Veterans’ Affairs.”

A few people have pointed me to material from Texas which seems to suggest that these cards would be acceptable as a form of military identification. Veterans ID cards do not expire, and therefore they seem to meet the Texas requirement: “a United States military identification card that contains the person’s photograph that has not expired or that expired no earlier than 60 days before the date of presentation.” (my emphasis)

... Update: The Texas Secretary of State’s office has responded via Twitter: “Veterans Affairs ID cards are an acceptable form of photo ID in TX. See slides 20 & 21 here: http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/forms/id/acceptable-forms-of-ID.pdf …“

This seems to confirm Justice Ginsburg made a small error in her decision.

More: http://electionlawblog.org/?p=67193

Yup, slides 20 and 21 are pretty explicit

[Orrex]

14. I think that the thinking is...

that the gun license is state-issued, but the student ID need not be.


Fundamentally bullshit, but that's how I've heard it justified.

[KamaAina]

15. Then why don't they accept IDs from Texas public universities?

Of course, that would include historically black institutions like Prairie View, so there you go.

[Orrex]

16. Your answer is correct IMO, and...

They would also argue that such a student might be fraudulently voting at home as well as in Texas.

Especially if the student is poor or a minority. Hell, why should they get to vote at all?!?

[KamaAina]

17. Nearly all students at Prairie View are from Texas.

The major place where that might conceivably be an issue is "The University" in Austin.

[Orrex]

18. Fun fact:

In the space of a week in 1992, a homeless man in Austin asked me to pull his tooth, and a guy on the bus begged me and my friend to explain the nature of grace.

[hack89]

20. Because non-residents can get those IDs?

not every college student in Texas is a Texas resident and eligible to vote.

[KamaAina]

21. I was replying to this

I think that the thinking is...

that the gun license is state-issued, but the student ID need not be.

[hack89]

22. And you asked why they did not accept Texas student IDs

Just pointing out it has nothing to do with black colleges but rather that it is not proof of voter eligibility.

[KamaAina]

23. In that case...

[hack89]

24. Do you disagree? nt

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

27. My daughter's Vietnamese college roommate had a student ID

She was an international student. Her parents were in Vietnam. She came here to go to school only.

Should she be allowed to vote?

[hack89]

29. Of course not. Nt

[progree]

25. What about military ID? Veterans ID? These are not proof of Texas residency

Neither proves residency in Texas or is issued by the state of Texas.

That a college ID is somehow inferior proof of eligibility to vote than handgun IDs is a red herring.

None of the above prove that you are eligible to vote in the precinct that you show up to vote in.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/government-elections-politics/why-voter-id-laws-arent-really-about-fraud

[GGJohn]

28. A Texas CHL is proof of residency.

When you apply for a Texas CHL, you have to prove you're a resident of the state, it has all the same info as a Texas DL I believe, your name, address, physical stats, picture, etc.

[progree]

30. Proof? Really? What if you move? And is a military ID a proof of residency?

I think some people here are falling for RW propaganda. The only god damn reason for the forms of ID that they will accept and not accept is this: to disproportionately disenfranchise demographics, like college students, that vote more Democratic than RepubliCON. (note the CON on RepubliCON)

[GGJohn]

31. What if this, what if that? We can play this game all day long.

The cold hard fact is that a CHL is a state govt. ID, while a college ID isn't, all a college ID proves is that you attend that particular college, it doesn't prove that you're a resident of the state.

Now, that said, I oppose having to show ID to vote.

[progree]

32. A CHL doesn't prove you're a resident of the state either. Nor does a military ID

Those are the cold hard facts.

Why would you oppose having to show an ID (that supposedly "proves" Texas state residency) to vote? Do you think non-residents of a state or district should be allowed to vote in any state or district they wish to?

Why Voter ID Laws Aren’t Really about Fraud, Frontline, 10/20/14
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/government-elections-politics/why-voter-id-laws-arent-really-about-fraud

[Proud Liberal Dem]

33. How

Did our country ever survive 200+ years without voter ID? Is TOO MUCH voting an actual problem in this country?