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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » We done fucked up.

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:07 AM

We done fucked up.

Only 12% of the people who voted were of my Millennial Generation, and turnout was dismal in general. Why? Because the Democratic leadership is either incompetent, compromised by "Third Way" corporate infiltration, or both. There was nothing that really energized the average left-leaning person, and the Dem Establishment is ignoring the issues people, especially my fellow Millennials, find important because they are scared of angering their corporate donors. Things like Net Neutrality, Student Loan forgiveness, Marijuana legalization, long-term unemployment and underemployment, the militarization of the police forces, and privacy. Instead we get meaningless platitudes of "middle class this" and "middle class that".

My generation feels like, besides Bernie and Liz, nobody is listening to us.

Meanwhile the Pukes were energized by bigotry and MSM scaremongering.

112 replies, 12288 views

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Arrow 112 replies Author Time Post
Reply We done fucked up. (Original post)
Odin2005 Nov 2014 OP
pkdu Nov 2014 #1
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #2
still_one Nov 2014 #80
Cha Nov 2014 #12
F4lconF16 Nov 2014 #16
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #37
pkdu Nov 2014 #45
F4lconF16 Nov 2014 #63
MADem Nov 2014 #77
F4lconF16 Nov 2014 #92
MADem Nov 2014 #105
upaloopa Nov 2014 #57
F4lconF16 Nov 2014 #64
upaloopa Nov 2014 #67
Niko Nov 2014 #90
pbmus Nov 2014 #76
SolutionisSolidarity Nov 2014 #60
Man from Pickens Nov 2014 #78
Niko Nov 2014 #88
F4lconF16 Nov 2014 #93
TreasonousBastard Nov 2014 #3
sketchy Nov 2014 #4
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #5
msongs Nov 2014 #6
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #7
AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #74
Alittleliberal Nov 2014 #75
AnalystInParadise Nov 2014 #95
LiberalElite Nov 2014 #17
upaloopa Nov 2014 #58
F4lconF16 Nov 2014 #65
upaloopa Nov 2014 #71
F4lconF16 Nov 2014 #96
ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #8
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #9
Cha Nov 2014 #10
bulloney Nov 2014 #21
TeamPooka Nov 2014 #11
LiberalElite Nov 2014 #18
glinda Nov 2014 #100
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #38
TeamPooka Nov 2014 #41
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #44
DebJ Nov 2014 #49
ColesCountyDem Nov 2014 #13
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #39
upaloopa Nov 2014 #59
ColesCountyDem Nov 2014 #69
saintsebastian Nov 2014 #14
Enthusiast Nov 2014 #28
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #40
Enthusiast Nov 2014 #46
geek tragedy Nov 2014 #111
livetohike Nov 2014 #15
LiberalElite Nov 2014 #20
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #42
BlueCaliDem Nov 2014 #66
F4lconF16 Nov 2014 #97
LiberalElite Nov 2014 #19
stillwaiting Nov 2014 #22
alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #23
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #43
Dawgs Nov 2014 #24
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #31
DebJ Nov 2014 #50
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #51
Gidney N Cloyd Nov 2014 #25
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #32
DebJ Nov 2014 #56
fredamae Nov 2014 #26
Enthusiast Nov 2014 #27
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #29
F4lconF16 Nov 2014 #68
Blaukraut Nov 2014 #30
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #33
Blaukraut Nov 2014 #34
Filibuster Harry Nov 2014 #35
FSogol Nov 2014 #36
F4lconF16 Nov 2014 #47
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #48
DebJ Nov 2014 #53
F4lconF16 Nov 2014 #62
DebJ Nov 2014 #73
upaloopa Nov 2014 #52
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #55
still_one Nov 2014 #87
arcane1 Nov 2014 #54
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #61
Qutzupalotl Nov 2014 #70
Arthur_Frain Nov 2014 #72
workinclasszero Nov 2014 #79
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #89
LeftInTX Nov 2014 #81
still_one Nov 2014 #82
LeftInTX Nov 2014 #84
still_one Nov 2014 #86
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #94
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #91
Phlem Nov 2014 #83
Post removed Nov 2014 #85
still_one Nov 2014 #98
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #99
still_one Nov 2014 #106
geek tragedy Nov 2014 #112
glinda Nov 2014 #101
Warpy Nov 2014 #102
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #103
Sancho Nov 2014 #104
joshcryer Nov 2014 #107
chrisa Nov 2014 #108
okieinpain Nov 2014 #109
geek tragedy Nov 2014 #110

Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:17 AM

1. Oh bullshit ....your gen sat this one out with TV and Doritos

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Response to pkdu (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:20 AM

2. Thanks for showing your cluelessness.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:58 PM

80. Clueless is not voting. Let's see how that works out for them. Labor was upset with Jimmy Carter

so they voted for Reagan, and that worked out real well

Don't tell me about the millinials not voting because they are all corporates.i have been through the civil rights movement, the Viet Nam era, the women's right movement, the labor movement,and all the struggles in the 50 years, and not once did those those involved in those struggles suggest not voting

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Response to pkdu (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 04:35 AM

12. Expecting everyone else to carry the burden of the Global Climate Change Crisis and oh,

let everyone worry about the Supreme Court turning even more fascist than it is.

I'd be fucking ashamed to admit I sat home on my self righteous whiny ass .. Election Cycle 2014.

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Response to pkdu (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:47 AM

16. Congratulations.

You're the first person I've ever considered putting on ignore. Fuck your ignorance. Some of us care one hell of a lot. I got off my ass and got my friends to vote. I did phone banks for ballot measures up here in Washington. I worked this year, and I voted, and I voted Dem.

Yeah, a ton of millenials sat out. You want to know why? Every damn one that I talked to that I couldn't convince to vote didn't vote because they had no one to vote for. They told me they wanted to vote. They said they would love to vote. But when it's a choice between the slow road vs falling straight into hell, they refuse to take part in it. I convinced some, but the ones I couldn't cited having no progressive candidates as the reason for not voting. Yeah, it's stupid. It's unreasonable. But maybe if Dems weren't actively fucking over my generation, they would vote for them. (And yeah. I know Republicans would be worse. Who gives a shit.)

So screw that. Sitting it out with TV and Doritos my ass. What a stupid, useless comment.

/end rant

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Response to F4lconF16 (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:27 PM

37. THANK YOU!

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Response to F4lconF16 (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:43 PM

45. No one to vote for , my ass....ask them how they feel after a year of Boehner/McConnell

And go ahead with the ignore...you already made MY point quite well but unintentionally .

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Response to pkdu (Reply #45)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:38 PM

63. You said we sat out this election

Watching TV and eating doritos. Care to explain what point you were trying to make besides just being insulting to my generation? It'd be nice if you addressed anything I just said.

Also, you missed the point. Voting against Boehner and McConnell is not voting for anything. It's voting against getting screwed over harder than we otherwise would be by our own wonderful corporate Democrats. See my post downthread (#62) for my explanation of why voting against something doesn't work for Democrats. We need something to vote for in order to motivate millennials.

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Response to F4lconF16 (Reply #63)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:51 PM

77. This "I need a HERO" shit is lame.

What you need is a Supreme Court that will not vote to take away choice from women, who won't criminalize equality, and who won't tell Congress that there's some obscure sentence in the Constitution that allows them to rule by fucking decree.

The Democrats, as a bloc, will put people on the Supreme Court who will guarantee that our rights are preserved. The GOP won't. That's the bottom line.

It's bigger than any one person. It's a philosophy--and believe me, when the rich get richer, and you get poorer, you'll figure out which way that GOP philosophy blows.

Voting against Boehner and McConnell is voting FOR a Supreme Court that will preserve YOUR RIGHTS. But hey...."I need a HEEEEE-Ro!!!!"



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Response to MADem (Reply #77)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:19 PM

92. Look, I know all this. I agree that it's the height of stupidity

Not to vote. Which is why I voted. Which is why I worked my butt off to GOTV this year.

We're trying to tell you how millennials feel, because you clearly don't understand them. If you want their votes, you should listen to what we're saying. That's all.

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Response to F4lconF16 (Reply #92)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 07:04 AM

105. Oh, I understand them. I've got a load of 'em in my family.

Millenials shouldn't wait to be "appealed to" and that IS what you're saying to me. They need to get off their own asses and find someone to back. It probably won't be my choice of candidate, but if they get their act together and vote for even the hopeless idealist it WILL resonate with the major parties and drive their policies in that direction.

I could just say to those disengaged millenials, If you don't care about a secure retirement or choice or equality or war without end, Amen, stay home. Fuck it! Who cares what you think? I'll be dead by the time those woes impact you, anyway!!!

The reason I don't do that is because this shit is bigger than me--even though I'll be long gone by the time you're collecting your social security, I would like you, as well as my own loved ones, to live in a world that has some assurances and some measure of decency and freedom.

I suppose I should just get selfish and adopt the GOP "I got MINE, screw everyone else!" attitude...? Because really, big picture, I'm in the catbird seat. I'll be OK no matter what these bastards in the GOP do. I may not live large, but I'll survive. I can downsize and be just fine. At this stage in my life, it's not about me--it's about YOUR generation. But you have to get off your own collective asses and make up your own minds about what you seek in a candidate, not stay home and whine that there's nothing on offer that appeals to you, that no one is coming to you with a pretty packaged candidate that you can buy like the latest iPhone.

People forget that a once-obscure (and very rich) third party candidate rose to prominence and in effect handed the White House to Bill Clinton. You don't have to color within the lines if you can't find anything in the coloring book that appeals to you, but don't sit at home demanding that someone bring you another one--go draw your own picture, get out and find what suits you, and carry on from there.

In short--don't wait to be asked. Don't wait to be coddled. Don't wait for someone to present you with a menu, and stand waiting, subserviently, to take your order. Get out there and do your own homework, make your pick, and back your choice with thought, word, and deed.

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Response to F4lconF16 (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:47 PM

57. So they let the repubs take over

Real fucking smart.
Maybe some day they will learn that you have to make your breaks. There will never be a reason for them to vote because there never be any ponies on the ballot.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #57)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:39 PM

64. See post #62. nt

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Response to F4lconF16 (Reply #64)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:53 PM

67. What about the rest of us? Did we get what we want?

Hell no none of us did or will. That does not fly.
I learned a long time ago that when you are in a fucked up place and things are not working for you, you have to try something. There is no guarantee what you try will work but if you do nothing there is a guarantee you'll stay fucked up. So keep trying stuff and stop asking for Dems or Boomers to fix your world for you before you vote!
I see that this message wasn't made for you personally.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #57)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:14 PM

90. No. The boomers voted for Republicans

 

It was the baby boomers who let the Republicans take over.

The youth simply didn't show up at the polls. There is a difference. I know it's kind of a minor sticking point and all, but what is it about baby boomers that they consistently vote for Republicans? Why can't good Democratic baby boomers convince their peers to vote for the Democrat?

It is the epitome of absurdity to place the fault on the people who didn't vote at all versus the people who voted for the Republicans in the first place.

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Response to F4lconF16 (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:47 PM

76. No Shit ...

and if voting was as easy as pushing the send button we would have more participation and better representation in this plutocratic country ....

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Response to pkdu (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:06 PM

60. From the wing of the party that apparently wants to be a permanent minority.

Yeah, fuck those guys that we absolutely need to vote with us!

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Response to pkdu (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:51 PM

78. 2/3rds of the electorate sat this one out

 

http://america.aljazeera.com/blogs/scrutineer/2014/11/5/why-the-real-electionturnoutwasfarlowerthanreported.html

Argue all you like about those who did turn out and did vote, but the real story is that 2 out of 3 eligible voters didn't think that voting would change a damn thing.

This brings serious questions about the legitimacy of American government - it claims to be representative but only actually represents the votes of just over 1 in 6 people who are eligible.

Figuring out what would bring even a fraction of those stay-at-homers to the polls is the key to winning elections, not swaying a fraction of the one-sixth of the electorate who voted GOP.

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Response to pkdu (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:06 PM

88. And YOUR generation voted for Republicans

 

I just love this generation wars shit.

Yeah, millennials should've voted. But what does it say about boomers that they overwhelmingly vote Republican?

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Response to Niko (Reply #88)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:22 PM

93. +1

This whole "blame the other generation" thing is ridiculous.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:20 AM

3. You're right...

we don't have that many younger voters registered, and there is no GOTV aimed at them.

At the poll i worked yesterday, we had around 400 people vote, but very few were under 30 and far fewer under 25. Maybe one or two under 20. The elderly were the biggest age group. (I should have kept a record...)

Yet another project I may or may not get done is working on a way to get you guys to vote. Jobs and school are as central to your lives as jobs and home ownership are to your parents, but nobody's looking at it through your eyes.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:21 AM

4. I know you're right because I heard a similar take on it from my 19 year old son

(He did vote, by the way.)

Thank you for your well-considered thoughts on this!
I think you've summed it up well.

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Response to sketchy (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:22 AM

5. You are welcome!

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:35 AM

6. well your generation could have VOTED ANYWAY instead of getting in a sit out huff over it all nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:43 AM

7. Thanks for refusing to understand apathetic Millennials.

That is really going to get them out to vote!

In reality they will roll your eyes and dismiss you as another clueless establishment tool who thinks they are entitled to their votes.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:57 PM

74. Thanks for sitting on your asses

 

whining and letting the evil party win because the freaking glass slipper didn't fit your delicate little footsie perfectly.


Yep way to go Millenial's you really showed us......

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Response to AnalystInParadise (Reply #74)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:43 PM

75. Ohh fuck off

You're not the generation that's going to have to clean up the fucking mess you guys made...

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Response to Alittleliberal (Reply #75)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:24 PM

95. What generation do you think I am in?

 

n/t

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Response to msongs (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:05 AM

17. Like the millennials say - For Who?

While I feel very strongly about exercising the right to vote, I can see how the millennials would see it as an empty exercise. The "lesser of two evils" is a meme whose time has come and gone. WE ARE GETTING NOWHERE WITH IT. I thank them for pointing out that the emperor is buck nekkid.

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:52 PM

58. Like babies crying because they don't have a new binky.

There will never be a ballot good enough for them yet the will bitch and moan "everybody is screwing us over"

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:48 PM

65. WE ARE.

We're not imagining getting screwed, we are. Have you seen student debt totals lately? What about the job market? What about all those corporate dems who are selling our education system? What about Democrats refusal to DO something about climate change? Hell, most of them barely address it, let alone enact policy. Oddly enough, it's us that will be hurt by it.

It's people like you who tell us that we need to shut up and vote and completely ignore our cries for help that piss millennials off. You just flat out denied that we're getting screwed. You want to know why they don't vote? It's because the Democratic leadership is acting exactly like you.

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Response to F4lconF16 (Reply #65)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:13 PM

71. Hey I'm screwed too! I voted!

Were all fucking screwed! Now we are about to get screwed even more!
Do something quit bitching!
You will never change anything with your attitude.
I got sent to Vietnam before I even had a job or go to school. I had to fight for my life for a year before I good live as an adult.
We fucking marched to end the war. We voted for Gene McCarthy knowing he would not win.
Go make noise! Yell out what your gripes are. Do something! March! Demand! Take over a building or school like we did

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #71)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:25 PM

96. See post 92.

It's not me you have to convince--it's all of them. You need their votes, not mine, and you're doing a really terrible job of getting them.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:47 AM

8. Sooo many people seem to think they're entitled to votes.

They will lose again and again until they learn entitlement, followed by whining, is a poor strategy for winning elections.

Just my opinion.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:55 AM

9. Yup. Politicians have to earn people's votes.

You can't run a shitty campaign and say "you are an idiot for not voting for me because I suck less than the other guy".

People don't want to know why you suck less than the other guy, people want to know what you will do for them.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 04:31 AM

10. I know tons of young people who got out and voted and yes a lot of them are Black.. they

know the power and the gift of voting. And, the young people I know are educated enough to realize the Environment and the Supreme Court are two vital immediate reasons to vote Democratic. They're also interested in College Loans which they know they're not going to get any help from republicons.. hell, republicons don't even want them to vote.

So yeah.. whatever young people you're talking about can sit it out and suck on their thumbs while the rest of us carry the burden.

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Response to Cha (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:18 AM

21. I know tons of people who got out and voted...

Given the obesity problem we have in this country, that's only about 6 or 7 people. Therein lies the problem.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 04:33 AM

11. Nobody is listening to you because you have no voice without voting. But keep texting each other. nt

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Response to TeamPooka (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:07 AM

18. I vote and I vote and I vote -

from the RESULTS it doesn't seem like I have a hell of a lot of a voice.

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:56 AM

100. Then you are creative and smart and get in there and help figure it out so that good people win.

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Response to TeamPooka (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:32 PM

38. LOL, 2008 taught us that we will be ignored even when we vote.

We voted thinking Obama was the next FDR, and we got Al Smith, instead.

When the Establishment is forced to choose between siding with Millennials and siding with their corporate donor they will side with the later every time.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:35 PM

41. So myou would have rather had MCain/Palin and/or Mitt Romney as president these last 6 years?

rationalize away but your generation is not thinking about the long term.

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Response to TeamPooka (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:39 PM

44. I'm sick of voting for the lesser of the 2 evils.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #44)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:39 PM

49. So the choice then is to not vote, and take the worse of the 2 evils instead.... OR

they could run for office themselves. The advantage to someone who is 25 is that they haven't had as much time
to screw up their personal lives and have ugly laundry to air.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 04:42 AM

13. I call bullsh*t!

Don't blame anyone else for the fact that your generation sat at home, navel gazing, and allowed other people to choose your government for you!

Would you like some cheese with your whine?

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Response to ColesCountyDem (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:33 PM

39. Thanks for proving my point.

You got nothing except sounding like a grumpy old man yelling about those damned kids.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:56 PM

59. You are right that's what you have to do to kids

I got no empathy for people who don't vote and complain the are getting screwed. We all want more then they are offering but guess what it is going to be that way all your life.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:56 PM

69. No, I should thank YOU for proving MY point. n/t

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:04 AM

14. Say What You Will

The older folks here can complain about my generation all they want. The fact is that we are the most politically progressive age group out there and we want progressive candidates. When we're often given a choice between reactionary Republicans and milquetoast Democrats, who can blame those among us who say we'd rather keep our hands clean of the whole business. Just because Democrats are not Republicans, doesn't mean they're automatically entitled to our votes.

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Response to saintsebastian (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:17 AM

28. They're not milquetoast Democrats!

They're Vichy Democrats.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:34 PM

40. "Vichy Democrats" I'm stealing this!

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #40)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:51 PM

46. You are welcome to it.

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Response to saintsebastian (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 06:49 PM

111. I certainly can blame anyone who cares about

 

their precious ideological purity rather than real world consequences.

Non-voters do not care about policy. What they care about is a mystery.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:41 AM

15. Voting is not about "What can I get out of this?" There is the problem

right there. One may not like their choices on the ballot , but we have a say in who governs us . Contemplate the alternative.

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Response to livetohike (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:11 AM

20. You know, I'm tired of it

What are the choices being bestowed on us by the higher ups? Not what we want. But eat your peas, children, we know what's good for you.

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Response to livetohike (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:36 PM

42. You can only use the "lesser evil" argument for so long...

...before people tire of it and start thinking it is an excuse to take voters for granted.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #42)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:49 PM

66. Then keep in mind that people, LOTS OF PEOPLE, have been tortured, beaten, and have DIED

for the right to vote the next time you feel a "meh" coming on and you have the luxury of pontificating that you don't wanna "choose between the lesser of two evils". Respect the sacrifices these people have made to open the right to vote for people like you and I - something that wasn't allowed before the civil rights movement - and VOTE.

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Response to BlueCaliDem (Reply #66)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:28 PM

97. See my post #92.

It's not us you have to convince. You need to listen to us, and attempt for 3 seconds to understand why millennials feel the way they do, or you will never get their vote.

Edit to say that as thankful as I am for their sacrifices (believe me--I am), it's also their right not to vote. They should, but in no way do they have to show support for a system they don't agree with.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:10 AM

19. It's "old farts" (of which I'm one)

in a different thread and "navel gazing" device addicts on this one. Meanwhile, back on the RadGOP Ranch, they're yukking it up and making plans to complete the annihilation of America. Let's stop the generational finger pointing and figure out what to do.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 08:55 AM

22. Democratic Leadership is very competent at ensuring that corporate interests are protected and

furthered.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:21 AM

23. Totally agree...the Democrats need to address the student loan crisis immediately

 

as a start.

You can't run around promoting college attendance when we have the loan numbers, the retention numbers, the years-to-graduation numbers, and the post-degree employment numbers that we currently have. Not only are you going to lose a key demographic (and that's just the electoral calculus), the actual policies are horrendous and destructive. Repealing any statute that restricts inclusion of student loan debt in a bankruptcy filing is an absolute priority. Increasing subsidies at the state and federal level is also crucial. The policies are feeding back into higher education as workplace as well, of course: the tightening of budgets due to lowered enrollments and subsidies is part and parcel of the adjunctification of higher education, which will in the medium to long run severely drain talent from American universities (at some point, people will simply stop working in these abusive conditions).

Of course, none of this will happen with GOP control of the Congress and state legislatures. But none of it was happening with Democrats either!

The Democrats are nowhere on this. Fucking NOWHERE. They need to put up a bill repealing the bankruptcy statutes on student loans up EVERY SINGLE DAY. They need to be on teevee every single day trumpeting that bill and pointing to student loan debt as a drag on the economy, a drag on consumption, a drag on higher education itself, a drag on lifetime earning and incomes. People need to be able to discharge these loans if necessary, even if the government and the banks take a haircut. Here's the thing: most people WON'T. Most people do everything in their power to avoid a bankruptcy filing. But some people MUST.

And the Democrats are fucking NOWHERE on this.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:38 PM

43. The Dems have their heads up the asses of the Banksters who profit from student loans.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:35 AM

24. So, your generation is just as dumb and ignorant as Republicans.

 

Nice to know.

It doesn't take much effort to realize which party wants to work on those things that concern your generation. I mean, aren't millennials supposed to be all about new media. It's really not that hard to figure it out.

BTW, interesting that you don't mention global warming, the biggest threat to millennials.

And, maybe there's a reason that Democratic politicians talk about fixing the "middle class" instead of net neutrality. They know that people that actually vote are concerned about "middle class" issues. Start voting and politicians will start to market to you.

And, making excuses for not voting and then complaining you not getting what you want is beyond stupid.

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:33 AM

31. It doesn't?

Have a dollar in one hand and a 'desire to work on those things' in the other and see which gets you farther.

Young people need a party that more than 'wants to work on' those things. They need one that IS working on them. and doesn't simply keep pushing things off into the future because they're not politically expedient.

The voters aren't to blame. Politicians have to earn their votes. They have no one to blame but themselves if they refuse to do so.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:40 PM

50. If these young people are Dems, then they ARE the party. They ARE the party, so why aren't they

out speaking up, demanding answers, running for office? Instead of just looking for someone else to do it for them?

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Response to DebJ (Reply #50)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:42 PM

51. Look downthread at my comment

"Yeah, you need to vote. But you know what you need even more?" in which I already said that as well, hours ago.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:05 AM

25. There is no excuse for choosing not to go vote. None.

If someone feels disenfranchised by most of the available candidates then at least show up, sign in, grab a ballot and vote for or against someone down-ballot or vote on a referendum or something-- then submit your undervote. Go on record showing your vote was right there in the polling place to be had if only they'd done something to earn it. But as long as the PTB thinks virtually nothing is going to pry your ass out of your chair then you're neither an asset nor a threat to them and no one's ever going to bother addressing your needs.

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Response to Gidney N Cloyd (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:35 AM

32. Good point in this.

I, for instance, refuse to vote in any race in which the candidate is 'unopposed'. They can vote for themselves, and nobody else needs to.

And somebody, somewhere is going to notice how many people vote in certain races, but don't in others.

Not showing up doesn't tell anyone anything useful. Showing up and showing that you refused to vote for specific candidates tells a story.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #32)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:45 PM

56. That's what I do. I intentionally didn't hit the vote straight Dem ticket just so I could see

on screen that ugly little unopposed rat bastid and NOT vote for that name.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:09 AM

26. When I Left the Dem

Party a couple years ago-a Wise friend told me: "Geeez, Don't Get Pissed and Leave-Get Pissed and Join your local party, be an office holder (PCP/Delegate). Change happens there and You can make it happen". So I did. "Change happens from the bottom Up", he told me. So, if "we" want a Better Dem Party-Join, and take it back from the NeoLibs/Third Way/New Dem Coalition/Blue Dogs.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:14 AM

27. Hey, Odin. My generation feels like, besides Bernie and Liz, nobody is listening to us. And I'm 62.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:28 AM

29. Yeah, you need to vote. But you know what you need even more?

To run. To build your farm teams of city council and school board members now, to work your way up the political food chain, so that when you hit those magic ages, you're running for the house, then the senate, then the WH.

We've got too many 'old white guys' (and I'm turning into one of those) running everything. We need our own 'young guns', more young, fired-up politicians who can get their peers fired up over social media to contribute and vote for them. Young women, young men, young transgenders, young straight, young gay, young asian americans, native americans, black americans, hispanic americans, even armenian americans, greek americans, norwegian americans. Young Americans of every possible background and ethnicity, bringing their own unique experiences and life stories.

Enough of 90% of our leaders being old white wealthy male WASPs.

What do you need from us old farts? Our support, our money, such as it is. To set up scholarship programs to get you through college in poli-sci majors, and target the races and districts you'll be running in after graduation (or even before). To get you mentors to prepare you for how to run campaigns and what you'll do on those school boards and councils, to identify the resources you'll need to make sensible, evidence-based decisions, and allow for the easier transfer of well-written, successful legislation from city to city, state to state. (And to keep you in continuing education while you're in office, to deepen and broaden your skills, and to prepare you for higher office.)

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:54 PM

68. I love this post.

More to say, but I'll pm you at some point.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:31 AM

30. So it's "What about me? What about my needs?". Got it.

I'm not a minority, I'm a woman of an age where I don't need to be concerned about my reproductive rights anymore. We are in an earnings bracket and the type of profession where a Republican president and/or Legislature might even be advantageous. I can list many more examples where I am not going to benefit directly from my vote.

But both my husband (middle aged white) an I can think beyond our own little world and realize which choice is the correct one for the greater good. So we vote. In every damn election, no matter what we get out of it personally.

As to progressive candidates: You listed Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Both of them come from arguably two of the most progressive states. Even my own state of Massachusetts has elected Charlie Baker, a Republican, for governor. Had the Millennials turned out, we might have instead been celebrating Martha Coakley. But no, she wasn't interesting enough, progressive enough, she - OMG - was a loosah! So here we are.

You are only going to have the choice of a progressive candidate in a state whose voter makeup will allow for one to actually have a chance at winning.
Kay Hagan in North Carolina is a perfect example. She was not a progressive, but she was just about the best you could hope for in a purple state. Yet she lost. Because those who complain the most couldn't be bothered to make sure that North Carolina sends a message: We are turning blue.

Until Democrats can be certain that they will not be abandoned in midterms, as it always happens, they cannot run their most progressive candidates in anywhere other than true progressive states. They will always have to cater to the perennial older, more conservative voter, who ALWAYS shows up at the polls, and run candidates that can triangulate.

Once the younger generation can wrap their heads around the fact that a President is not a King, and can't act in a vacuum, that he needs a supporting cast that gets elected from the bottom up every two years, things will stay the same.

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Response to Blaukraut (Reply #30)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:37 AM

33. It is, and we'd be a lot better off if most people did simply vote on self-interest.

You think Repubs would actually win anything if people actually voted in their own best interests?

Helping other people helps us all, so even voting to help the less fortunate is 'self-interest'.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #33)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 12:03 PM

34. Unfortunately, too many people are unable to connect the greater good

with themselves. As to Republicans voting against their self-interests. They don't believe they are. Read my sig line. That explains Republicans to a large degree. Aside from that, Republicans begrudge others the same opportunities that were given to them, because they believe they actually achieved them on their own. The bootstrap nonsense. So they do act out of a misguided self interest.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:29 PM

35. Why should there be a reason for you to come out and vote?

Have you not seen what the Rs constantly do to this administration and this country? The "No, No, No" routine.
The constant objections toward this president.
You are correct about the incompetency but is not voting which gave the Senate to the Rs the outcome you wanted??
Because now the Rs are getting ready to try to pass legislation (any legislation) and even if the President vetoes them the Rs will just excite their base with the message of "if we had an R president we can pass this and turn this country around".

Watch out for 2016. Not turning out -- anybody not turning out-- is responsible for this.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:50 PM

36. Translation: We didn't vote and it's all YOUR fault.




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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 04:00 PM

47. Two thoughts.

First, I find it amazing that in a thread explaining (and very well, I might add) exactly why millennial don't vote, the first thing that happens is people come to do exactly that. We say that no one is listening, that the Democratic party has left us high and dry for the past 20 years, that people do nothing but dismiss us. What's the first thing that happens in this thread? People come to call us lazy-ass whining crybabies, in almost that exact language, and proceed to dismiss everything we have to say. To them I say: well done! You're doing a great job making sure even fewer turn out next election.

Second, the attacks on millennial have been vicious and far over the top. Imagine if the black turnout had been this low. Do you think people on this board would be yelling at them to "get off their lazy asses"? Because oddly enough, I don't. Millennial are an easy target because we're young. We can be dismissed. We don't know anything yet, and so we should just leave the politics to the adults and shut up and vote, despite the fact that leaving politics to the "sensible adults" in the party is exactly why we're in this mess and why we lost this election.

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Response to F4lconF16 (Reply #47)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 04:57 PM

48. The PTB have done a good job spread the "Lazy Narcissist Millennials" meme.

Basically they have spun our demand for a better, fairer society into saying that we are "entitled" to a good job and similar shit.

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Response to F4lconF16 (Reply #47)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:44 PM

53. Millenial Dems need to realize they ARE the party. They ARE the party and its future. So they need

to DO something. Talk, run for office........... what is this business about 'the party isn't doing anything for me?"

WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE DOING FOR THE PARTY? if they can't even take 10 minutes to vote, I just can't imagine
them actually doing anything at all to change things.

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Response to DebJ (Reply #53)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:20 PM

62. Like I posted upthread

We do. I got out there and GOTV as hard as I could this year. My friends worked on campaigns in Seattle. One was a local leader for Measure 594. We did call centers, we talked to people, we got signatures. We worked, and we worked hard.

The problem is, those of us that do that don't see anything changing. Look at 2008. The youth turned out en masse. Not this year, and it's because when we did work, nothing changed, and a whole lot got worse. What do you expect? When we worked hard, we got nothing. That's the lesson the Democrats taught us.

Now, I completely agree. There's no excuse for not voting. But it's unfair to place the blame squarely on youth, when Democrats have been dismissing our concerns and actively making it worse (key point: climate change and education). Why would we vote when we can clearly see that voting for a Democrat is not in our best interest? Obviously, Republicans are worse, if not downright insane, and we should vote against them. But voting against something is a really shitty way to get high turnout, unless it's motivated by fear and hatred. Since we're not willing to use fear and bigotry, then we damn well better have a strong progressive platform to vote for.

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Response to F4lconF16 (Reply #62)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:32 PM

73. Yes asnd thank you for voting. And certainly it is not JUST the millenials...........

but if the millenial Dems HAD voted, their misery in the near future would have been much less.

What I was saying is the whining ones who refused to vote are NOT the ones doing as you do.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:43 PM

52. No you helped elect the repubs.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #52)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:45 PM

55. "WAAAAAAAAAAAAH, we are entitled to those votes, HOW DARE THEY!!!"

-the DLC cocksuckers.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #55)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:04 PM

87. Then vote green, but to not vote is lazy and irresonsible

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 05:45 PM

54. Gay marriage was outlawed in California because not enough people voted.

 

The ballot initiatives are sometimes more important than the candidates.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:15 PM

61. I'm not questioning whether this is accurate or not ...

 

you said it, so I'll believe it.

But let me see if I understand, no politician was talking your (generation's) language, so you don't vote (i.e., use your voice) ... guaranteeing 2 years of republican control of both houses of congress (who, BTW, won't listen to you), and pretty much guaranteeing that no politician will listen to you in the future.

It seems that the cuts to public education (Civics classes) have finally taken root.

Please communicate to members of your generation ... Politicians pay attention to what VOTERS say. IOWs, here's the sequence: You work with and campaign for a candidate ... (that way they hear what you want) ... then you vote for the candidate that you worked for; not you want for someone saying what you want to hear and Don't vote if you don't hear it.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:06 PM

70. The youngest voters don't even remember Clinton.

A lot of them didn't pay attention to politics until after the recession. Regardless of who is actually at fault, what they notice is that it was hard for them to find work under Obama. Even though they largely share our values, the tough years after the recession took a toll on Democratic support. Now that things are getting better, it's hard to say who Millennials will credit. Maybe Obama, if we're lucky.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:13 PM

72. Do you really think...

..that any of us ever feel "listened to" by politicians?

Do you think that if you had a chance to sit down and have a confab with anyone (even "liz" or "bernie" they would do anything other than tell you what you want to hear? They would lie their asses off (like EVERY elected politician does) and when you walked out the door, 30 seconds later they would have brushed you off their mind, and be thinking about which lobbyist was buying them lunch.

Sad to say that IF in fact the reason the republicans won big this election cycle is that the millenials all stayed home because there wasn't anyone progressive enough to vote for, yes, you did fuck up, and you are royally screwed with Boehner, McConnell, and all the rest salivating over another two years of trying to repeal the ACA, avoid paying women what they're worth while telling them what they can and can't do with their bodies etc., etc.

Man I feel your pain, but talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face..........

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:54 PM

79. Should be screamed directly into the ears of the thirdway/DLC bagger lite democrats!

 

...the Dem Establishment is ignoring the issues people, especially my fellow Millennials, find important because they are scared of angering their corporate donors. Things like Net Neutrality, Student Loan forgiveness, Marijuana legalization, long-term unemployment and underemployment, the militarization of the police forces, and privacy.

Democratic voters got nothing, a big fat zero.

Bagger racists got heaping shovels full of red meat racism and hate..and they turned out BIGTIME for it!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #79)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:12 PM

89. Exactly!

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:58 PM

81. Bush's wars weren't a motivator?

When I was young, it was war that scared us. But there was also a draft. When I started high school, the voting age was 21. So many kids fought to get the voting age lowered to 18.

Vietnam and that monster Ronald Reagan also motivated me to vote. I voted for uninspiring candidates such as Mondale, Dukakis and Al Gore. What was the other option?

I don't know what to say to motivate you. People will vote when they feel that it is necessary. I think older people vote because they have more life experience and each passing year and situation/hurdle/problem orients them to a new this or that.

I didn't take mid-terms seriously until 1994. (The House had been Democratic my entire life. It had kept Reagan under control) Then came Newt Gingrich. After that, I took mid-terms seriously.

There will be plenty of boring uninspiring candidates in the future, but there will also be plenty of Reagan's, Bushes, Ted Cruz's etc etc


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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #81)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:01 PM

82. The millinials didn't go through viet nam when there was a draft

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Response to still_one (Reply #82)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:18 PM

84. I know. I was wondering if Bush's wars were a motivator - w/o a draft?

One of my visceral reactions to war was due to the draft.
Wondering if lack of draft shields young people from it's effects.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #84)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:01 PM

86. Mine to. Also lack of media coverage in Iraq or Afghanistan, it was extremely sanitized. Nothing

what came out of Nam. Every week casualty figures, broadcasts in the middle of the fights by Dan Rather and others who were real reporters.

The up front and personal views of the Tet offensive. The American public saw the war close up

I don't want the draft back, but I agree with you that lack of it does shield one from the effects. The lack of coverage also

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Response to still_one (Reply #86)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:23 PM

94. The PTB learned their lesson from 'Nam.

Never use conscription for imperial adventures and make sure the news from the front is sanitized propaganda.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #81)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:15 PM

91. There was no draft, unlike Vietnam.

I was one of the protestors against the Iraq boondoggle when I was in high school. We were dismissed as "crazy anarchists" while the DINOs were sucking up to the Bushies.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:04 PM

83. yep.

I'm trying to remember any legislation I was excited about that the Dem's were bringing. It's like they had nothing to motivate voters to go out to the poles with. Instead it was all about blaming the voter and threatening them. I mean the shit's really fucked up. No cohesion of the delegates either, it was like everyone for themselves!

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)


Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:56 PM

98. Why should there be student loan forgiveness? I can see lowering the interest rate to 1 or 2%, but

what is the basis for your argument that student loans should be forgiven?

Now if you are talking about that they should be able to declare bankruptcy on student loans, I agree, but they should also realize the consequences of declaring bankruptcy.

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Response to still_one (Reply #98)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:02 AM

99. My generation was PROMISED that if we went to college we were GUARANTEED good jobs.

We were lied to by greedy fucks who just wanted the subsidized student loan money. Fuck that shit, they do not deserve any of that money. Fuck them.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #99)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 08:43 AM

106. That is bullshit. No one ever was guaranteed a good job if they went to college. I have no idea

where you got that from, but if that is what your generation believes, they have more problems than just not voting

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #99)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 06:52 PM

112. Who promised you that? Answer: no one.

 

Not sure why college educated professionals are more deserving of financial relief than those in poverty.

You millenials really need to ditch the sense of entitlement. You are not guaranteed or owed career success at the tender age of 22. You need to earn it.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:00 AM

101. I get it why I hear so many young people say everyone and everything is f_)**^*( up. Well it is.

But I hear more whining and complaining about it and don't see many of them actually getting out to make it change. It takes hard work. It can be done. We are in the crapper to be sure and many people have fucked up the future but I believe doing nothing or sometimes even throwing a vote out the window is not the answer. at all. You have to fight and fight smarter! Fight smarter!
If anyone can it is the younger people. Make it change drastically. Fight smarter!

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:18 AM

102. What I've been hearing out in the real world

(and I live near the state U) is that most of them don't see a hell of a lot of hope or help from the Democratic Party. Fortunately, we didn't need them because we kept all our Democrats by double digit margins and our teabagger governor won by a single digit margin. I expected more people to rubberstamp her.

The way the party has consistently fucked up since liberals went out of power in 1969 is by promising people business as usual. That was probably OK for a while, but business as usual is killing people who are both young and old. The young are crippled by debt and stagnant wages and the old have been turned out of their living wage jobs with at least ten years before they can collect Social Security. We're going to have a whole generation with no retirement savings followed by the youngest generation with no hope beyond spending every spare dime servicing their debt. Forget marriage, family, and a home. They can't afford any of it and they know it.

Promising millenials more business as usual is promising them more poison. Oh, I don't think they'll vote GOP, they're not stupid. They're just not going to be motivated to vote at all and I can't say I blame them.

Oh, some are politically active and I am grateful for that. Eventually they'll make a new core for the party and maybe they'll be able to kick the Wall Street fossils out of the way. Until then, I'm afraid apathy is taking over the majority.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #102)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:33 AM

103. From we Millennials' POV...

We are offended by Establishment Dems jumping for joy about the official economic numbers about stocks being up and unemployment and the deficit down while my generation is stuck with shitty jobs, if we have a job at all, with shitty wages while having to pay off our student loans.

The Establishment sounds like the idiot newspaper pundits in 1932 who were saying "The Depression's Over and nobody has starved!!!" while people were literally starving.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 06:58 AM

104. I agree...

nothing energized the young folks. Democratic candidates missed the boat.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 09:18 AM

107. Warren is as "liberal" as Mark Udall.

Who lost his seat because he was "Third Way." According to people like you, anyway.

It's all about perceptions and the one way to make young people disillusioned in the process is continually bash their potential candidates. And that's precisely what you're doing with your post, and that's precisely what the two years leading up to the election was about.

It's primarily why Clinton's strategy is going to be hyping up Democrats and saying that Americans are too down on themselves. That they feel there's no way out and that there is.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 10:32 AM

108. It's fairly common for millennials not to vote in midterm elections.

We seem to vote in Presidential elections but that's it.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 05:38 PM

109. something to think about is have people gotten too comfortable. n/t.

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Response to Odin2005 (Original post)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 06:47 PM

110. This is nonsense. People who don't vote

 

are typically non-ideological and non-partisan.

Young voters have always been known to flake out when it comes to voting. Gen X voted in low numbers when they were
young, and so does Generation X-Box.

People who don't vote get ignored. And they really have only themselves to blame.

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