Will Democrats listen to Krystal Ball's crystal ball - Hillary Clinton no shoo-in.

[egbertowillies]

Last edited Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:09 AM - Edit history (1)

One may think Krystal Ball has some kind of vendetta against Hillary Clinton. After-all over the last few months she has hit Hillary Clinton pretty hard in several of her KrystalClear monologues.

MSNBC Krystal Ball: “Don’t Run Hillary, Don’t Run” What do you think? (VIDEO)
Krystal Ball Not Backing Down: She says ‘Run Elizabeth Warren Run’ (VIDEO)
Krystal Ball slams Hillary Clinton ‘Democrats take the Black vote for granted’

It should be remembered that she was in fact a Hillary Clinton supporter in the 2008 Democratic Primaries. She has always claimed a strong respect like the vast majority of Democrats for Secretary Clinton’s accomplishments. Many in the establishment may attempt to disregard Ms. Ball as some lightweight on a lightweight MSNBC show. They should not.

While Toure’s message of ‘Love the one you with’ and pragmatism is the political safety establishment Democrats are willing to bet on, those that are tired of the status quo are not. Too many Democrats are becoming too confident in the certainty of a demographic makeup that portends a likely Democratic win with Hillary Clinton at the helm.

Studying demographic numbers behind a computer or in an ivory tower is one thing. Going into demographically distinct communities and speaking to folks on the ground gives a feeling. Election results provides a certain reality. The two latter statements give much credence to the activists wanting to explore alternatives.

The expectation that Latinos will stick with Democrats at Obama rates is wishful thinking. Republicans will make it quite obvious to low information voters how diverse their class of 2014 was. While the Democratic establishment finds Rand Paul’s forage into Black America amusing, many are listening as they rightfully believe they have been taken for granted.

Krystal Ball like many brave souls is simply refusing to march in lock step with the establishment when there seems to be storm clouds that many choose not to see or explore the possibility thereof. The Democratic establishment would do well to get off their demographic numerical analysis and start working within communities at the level of the heart.

Continued

[yeoman6987]

1. Well until Hillary days she's running

All of this is pure speculation.

[C Moon]

3. That would be entertaining if she decided to not run...

a lot of folks would look very uncomfortable.
I'm not behind Hilary at this point...
but I doubt a candidate has ever being torn down so much this far ahead of the election—and BEFORE officially announcing it.

[JDPriestly]

2. K&R.

Powerful statement and analysis.

[newfie11]

4. I agree with her

It's time for new people. Clintons/Bushs have had their run.

We need a president with some gumption!
Sorry but Bernie has my vote if he runs.
Oh yeah there's the voices about spitting the vote. I think it's time to chance it. I wonder how things would be if Perot had one.

[takakupo]

5. Bernie Won't Split the Vote

I really doubt that Bernie will run in 2016 if he's not reaching for the Democratic nomination. He's on a tour right now seeing if people will actually vote for him. The problem with that (if he IS running as an independent) is that no one knows him.

[RBInMaine]

8. He may run in the primary as a Democrat. If he doesn't win the primary, that's it. Done. He will

be there to place focus on the populist positions he champions, and that's a good thing. But he will support the eventual
nominee.

[takakupo]

11. Yep

I agree.

[takakupo]

6. The Clamoring for Hillary Needs to Stop

If you would have asked me about Hillary's candidacy years ago, I would have been excited. But right now, she's not only offering nothing new, she's asking us to take a step backwards. Whether it's an anti-woman message she's spouting or looking back on her anti-gay stances, Hillary is one of the hardest establishment candidates to stomach. Krystal Ball is doing some real public work right here, reminding us once again that we need to really question Hillary's bonafides. Her achievements. Her electability. Maybe she is liked by some of the base, but really, how broad is her reach in terms of the electorate?

[RBInMaine]

7. The clamoring AGAINST Hillary needs to stop. Let's see who decides to run, then get behind the

person who emerges as the nominee after a fair and rigorous primary campaign as always. It would be entirely insane for anyone
with a desire reinvigorate the party, retake the congress, and keep the presidency to dismiss anyone right now. I do know this. At the end of the primaries, we need to get behind the nominee in a big way. Again, no INSANE divisiveness. The stakes are too high. I will support the nominee. I will not engage in the INSANITY of purity.

[djean111]

9. The clamoring against Hillary is pushback.

Since Hillary is not in office, and has not announced, maybe all the charts and polls and lists of things she has said about various issues should just be in the Hillary Clinton group, where not a discouraging word is spoken. If every little thing she says is posted in GD, it is fair game to agree or disagree. If she is acting like a candidate, she will be treated as a candidate.
Primary season should be real interesting.

[takakupo]

12. I don't think many people disagree with you

I really don't believe that any sizeable number of Democrats will NOT support Hillary should she secure the nomination. However, it's important that we challenge her intevitability and her positions if she thinks that she can veer center right at any time. She MUST champion progressive positions or she is doomed and has no chance of being elected president by the hands of that sizeable Democratic base.

[Beacool]

34. Hear, hear!!!

I read as much crap here about Hillary than I read at any RW site.

If Hillary chooses to run, I'll work my hardest to help her campaign. If she doesn't, I'll vote for the Democratic nominee, but I won't be particularly interested who that person may be. Which is more than some here who have repeatedly stated that they wouldn't vote for Hillary if she won the nomination. That's just sour grapes and not thinking in the long term.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

10. She may not be a shoo-in

But- if she runs- she represents the best chance for Dems to hold on to the WH for another 4-8 years IMHO absent the appearance of any as yet unknown alternative candidates.

[greatlaurel]

15. Exactly, notice how the right wing dirty tricks department has been working overtime against HRC.

The "HRC is not really a Democrat theme" has been used heavily, along with the "she is an old woman, ick theme has been out there to appeal to the young people, as if Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are spring chickens.

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. and god help us if they get all three branches....

[flamingdem]

13. Krystal Ball is wrong about this

and while she's impressive in some ways she doesn't show a whole lot of analytical capacity.

This seems like an emotional bias towards change and younger candidates without any sense of the electorate and Hillary's ability to cross over.

Newsflash: the electorate doesn't like women that much and Hillary has to be a hawk to stand a chance. Elizabeth won't be believable in that role.

[greatlaurel]

14. Why would we listen to Krystal "I am a shill for Wall Street" Ball?

Last edited Thu Nov 13, 2014, 02:30 AM - Edit history (1)

This woman only has a media job because she is married to a investment guy and she is an attractive face to hide behind while she pumps out right wing propaganda disguised as a supposed Democrat.

She is not on the side of the 99%. Wake up folks.

[PAProgressive28]

19. She spoke out strongly against Wall Street in an earlier piece on Hillary

So much so that Bill O'Reilly came to the rescue to defend Hillary and the establishment.

[DFW]

21. I don't know whereTHAT came from

And maybe you know her better than I do, but she and Jonathan are friends of ours, and while she doesn't go out of her way to NOT sound like a valley girl, she is aware, evolving, and does speak her mind, which is very much her own. She took the MSNBC job because guest spots pay a lousy low fee, and they weren't enough to live on. She cancelled a dinner with us earlier this year, got Jonathan to baby sit, and rushed over to the studio at night after a full day there when the news of Lawrence O'Donnell's car crash came in, and put in the overtime. Yes, she's nice to look at, but she isn't hiding behind anything. She very much IS on our side, and only if she tells me otherwise to my face will I stop believing that. That first time she publicly implored Hillary not to run? She feared for her job when she dared to air that, but said it anyway out of conviction, and we lauded her for it.

[greatlaurel]

30. Did not say she was not a nice person, I am sure she is.

The things she says on air are really not helpful to electing any Democrats or analyzing why Democrats are not winning elections. Ball is good at repeating all the inside baseball analysis that is devoid of real comprehension as to what is happening to real people. Also, it seems that some very powerful interests do not want HRC to run in 2016 and Ms. Ball parrots the criticisms of HRC all the time and has done so long before her pronouncement earlier this year. Your assertion that she feared for her job seems kind of silly. If she did get fired over criticism of HRC, then Ball would have countless job offers from other media outlets to air her views and be lauded for her bravery for standing up to the Clintons.

The fact that Ms. Ball went out of her way to help a coworker is very nice and shows she has concern for the people she knows. That is good as far as it goes. She is unfortunately very out of touch with how most Americans live. Folks in flyover country are not considered worthy of concern. The only politician who seemed the slight bit interested in flyover people was HRC. The center of this country is being hollowed out. The extraction of wealth has continued unabated during the Obama administration and no Democrats are addressing it, except for maybe Sherrod Brown, that is why the Democrats lost 2014. Warren and Sanders are not addressing what is happening to us here in flyover country either. The things they say are good for the east coast, but it does not resonate here at all.

We hear how HRC is owned by Wall Street, but they are spending a lot of time and effort to trash her. Of course, if she could not fund raise then she would not be considered a worthy candidate, either. So she is both a corporate toady and cannot win because of her lack of monetary support from the right people. Catch-22.

In my area of expertise I found the work HRC did as senator to be outstanding, really head and shoulders above any other senator at that time. She had a true understanding of the science, which is very rare for politicians, and truly cared how the failure of the Bush administration cost people their health and even their lives. She must be incredibly smart to be able to grasp scientific principles most people do not understand and then to use that understanding to craft really well thought out and functional proposals. Her actions were not those of someone who knuckled under to the corporate interests.

[DFW]

32. I agree that Hillary's depth is seriously overlooked

But the same could go for many presidential candidates, both nominees and not (Al Gore and Howard Dean comes to mind). Krystal's concern about her position came from the fact that certain personalities have the clout and/or seniority to be able to say anything whatsoever and get away with it. Her status is not yet that of one who has nothing to fear. Fortunately she got enough support that it wasn't an issue, but she didn't know that going in. I still maintain that dissing Krystal for her view is a drive-by shooting. She has more depth than you give her credit for, just as Hillary has more depth than many give her credit for. I only know her very superficially, but my parents liked her immensely, and their judgment was gleaned from many decades in the thick of Washington politics. Bash her/their statements if you disagree, but I wouldn't doubt the depth of wither woman, or the thought that goes into what they say publicly.

Krystal's concern about Hillary is sincerely felt, and she wouldn't mind if Hillary were a shoo-in for the White House if nominated, but she isn't. This is not 2008, when the Democratic nomination was a free ticket to the White House. For all her street smarts and well-deserved praise for being able to work the Senate, Hillary proved to be less formidable as a presidential candidate in 2008, and if we don't want to see more Supreme Court members like Scalia and Alito then we MUST retain the White House in 2016. We have never held it for three consecutive terms since FDR, and it was never more imperative than now (well, maybe except in 2000, and what a disaster for the country THAT was). If the radical right gets a 6-3 majority on the Supreme Court, their decisions will affect all of us, including "flyover country (does Texas count?)" as well as everywhere else, for nearly two decades.

[Blue Idaho]

16. And there is the problem...

We need a deeper bench. We are stuck in a "If not Hillary, who?" Trap. The party's failure to develop a meaningful 50 state strategy to elect Democrats to every possible post from dog catcher to mayor to governor means we have limited Presidential options. Statistically, the largest number of US Presidents come from the Governors office, not Congress, not Military, not the State Department.

We need a clear, concise, inclusive, and progressive message but we also need an energetic progressive candidate to be sure our message is heard. Offering another "republican lite" candidate does nothing to protect the rights and freedoms of our citizens. A cynic might even say these sorts of choices are designed to disenfranchise voters and keep turnout below about one third of the population.

Corporatists of every stripe know it's easier to control outcomes when people don't vote.

[poisonpicker]

17. Independent thinkers in boxes

Everyone is trying to appeal to the independents without knowing it or knowing how to forget their two-party mentality.

[poisonpicker]

18. Make Jeb wake up and see how George is still a nobody

If you don't want another Bush (Jeb is his monkey name), or you just want to spew after this last election, why not send a few choice words to Georgie boy, who's taking questions as he flogs a book about dear old dad. Nothing like a nation of Bushes to energize Democrats (we hope).

Send your questions here:

http://www.goodreads.com/author/13747.George_W_Bush/questions
http://www.goodreads.com/book/22761137-41/questions

[Darb]

20. I don't listen to anyone named Krystal Ball.

Period. End of sentence.

[giftedgirl77]

28. My thoughts exactly....

[DFW]

22. Krystal has no vendetta against anyone, including Hillary

What she DOES have is a great desire to see us stop losing ground in elections, and has a podium to express her views (which she does) where most of us, yours truly, just post on blogs.

Krystal truly believes our chances are improved if Hillary continues not to declare her candidacy, with an eye to a timely declaration of non-candidacy. Agree or disagree, but some of the comments flaming Krystal on this thread seem to me to be from some subterranean dark cave somewhere.

Yes, she and her husband are friends of ours, and it sure as hell isn't her fault that her dad is a physicist specializing in crystallography (whence her name), any more than Stanley Ann Dunham's kid is to be dissed for his name.

You don't like anyone named Krystal Ball? I can only imagine your feelings about a guy named Barack Obama.

[hedgehog]

23. I was kind of stunned at the Washington Post article suggesting that

Obama is getting ready to hand over the party (?) reins to Hillary.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-tricky-obama-clinton-handoff-begins/2014/11/11/0f650828-6605-11e4-9fdc-d43b053ecb4d_story.html

Pack 'em up and go home kids, the big manoey people have made their choice!

[LawDeeDah]

24. I very much doubt that, handing the reins to Hillary.

I don't think Obama likes or trusts her that much, and her husband. And for good reasons.

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. that is laughable!

He doesn't like her....so he gave her a great job!

Right....I actually saw he and Bill Clinton together....believe me there is no ill will there...

I don't believe Krystal Ball nor do I believe what you just said....

[craigmatic]

25. She said it better than I did in my thread abot people dumping on Obama when

Bill and Hillary couldn't help the dems win. I said she can't excite the base. The 2016 problem is that there is no winnable progressive candidate to counter Hillary. She is inevitable if we can't find a liberal alternative. I guess there's Joe.

[Thinkingabout]

29. Doesn't appear anyone stumping for the candidates helped them win.

Truth is not enough Democrat voters turned out to vote.

[Odin2005]

31. I can't NOT giggle when I see or hear that woman's name.

It's too perfect a name for a MSM pundit.

[appalachiablue]

33. Zephyr Teachout. What's in a name? Ball's an old name, from Brit. Isles like Lucy (Lucille) Ball.

K.'s physicist father named her after his dissertation. Get over it. She's put forth worthwhile issues in this piece and likewise contributes to MSNBC's 'The Cycle' program. Her positions are not emotional, or derived from a pretty face. And her fronting for Wall St. is loony talk. Krystal has a place on the left as much as anyone here and I'm glad this selection was posted.