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UCmeNdc

(9,600 posts)
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 11:58 AM Apr 2015

Knives out for solar- ALEC & fossil fuel lobby gets MN House plan to gut clean energy

Before the worst of the worst, the back story needs to be told. The fight brewing in Minnesota is just one of many happening across the U.S. In an article entitled “Utilities wage campaign against rooftop solar,” The Washington Post reported on the campaign by utilities and its fossil-fuel supporters to stop residential solar. The Post says that legislation to make net metering illegal or more expensive has been introduced in legislatures in nearly two dozen states. The Los Angeles Times article, “Koch brothers, big utilities attack solar, green energy policies” links the effort against net metering to the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) and the Koch brothers.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/07/1376222/-Knives-out-for-solar-ALEC-fossil-fuel-lobby-gets-MN-House-plan-to-gut-clean-energy

11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
1. Also, they are Pushing Hydrogen down our throats... Do NOT buy the "green hydrogen" hype.
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 12:01 PM
Apr 2015

95% of the hydrogen we create comes from natural gas.

They would LOVE for us to all drive hydrogen cars and go to hydrogen stations.

The future is clear:

Distributed energy generation, solar rooftops, more wind.

And, battery electric vehicle and plug-in hybrids.

My Volt is all-electric at any speed for the first 35 miles, then has an onboard gas generator.

Pennies per mile.

concreteblue

(626 posts)
3. dUDE, GET EDUCATED.....
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 04:09 PM
Apr 2015

Hydrogen is easily electrolyzed from water, urine, and other liquids with basic solar power. Yes, the bis energy corp mafia is pushing hydrogen from fossil fuels, this is a dead-end, and probably purposely so.




Many creative people working on this tech....don't be such a negative Nelly......
 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
4. Sorry, I'm in the business, I've been to every type of powerplant and designed large solar projects.
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 05:09 PM
Apr 2015

Trust me, solar to hydro is neither efficient nor cost effective.

It might make sense for places remote from the grid or other energy connections, but not for you and me.

Dude.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
7. If the desired result is electricity and PV output is 3X what H2 does....
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:23 PM
Apr 2015

Then H2 is pointless.

Just because the radiant energy is free, creating electricity at about 20% efficiency, taking that straight to the motor or to battery storage is far more efficient than the H2 process.

A: Radiant to electricity, to battery and end use
B: Radiant to electricity to electrolysis, to compression, to fuel cell conversion, back to electricity, to end use. It makes no sense.

Generation source output to end use: I'll take 86% efficiency over 25% any day.



Photo credit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy

95% of the hydrogen made today in the US uses natural gas. Big gas and oil are major sponsors of the hydrogen economy.

concreteblue

(626 posts)
6. Efficiency ii
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:10 PM
Apr 2015

WHat was the thermal efficiency of the internal combustion engine when the Model T Ford hit the streets?

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
8. Very low, maybe 13%. But electric vehicles were outselling gas vehicles at beginning of the century
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 10:33 PM
Apr 2015

We didn't have an electricity infrastructure that could make EVs practical except in cities.

In fact, EVs became commercially available in the 1890s, about the same time that internal combustion vehicles were first sold. New York City even had a fleet of electric taxis in 1897!

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/electric-car-timeline.html

The first car designed by Ferdinand Porsche was an electric car and appeared in 1898, named the Egger-Lohner electric vehicle. The same year he built the first true gas electric hybrid, the Lohner-Porsche.

For the US, the energy content of gas and the fact that electricity distribution was VERY limited meant that ICEs were going to dominate.

And once the oil companies established their sales and delivery infrastructure, they weren't about to let some GM EV-1 screw it up.

Today there are dozens of EVs and PHEVs on the market with more coming every year and with greater ranges and more infrastructure.

The oil companies don't want to give up their business of delivering fuel and fueling stations, so are pushing hydrogen.

Don't help them.

I charge at home, at work, at my friend's house and if I run out of battery charge or need to go on a long trip, my onboard generator takes care of me.

TTFN

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
2. Of course, that just pushes more solar users to cut the tie to the grid entirely.
Wed Apr 8, 2015, 12:06 PM
Apr 2015

Rather than buying cheap solar from users with too much energy, they can keep buying more expensive coal electricity, and have fewer and fewer people to sell it on to.

mackdaddy

(1,525 posts)
11. Report: ‘Load Defection’ From Customer-Owned Solar and Batteries Is Already Here
Sun Apr 12, 2015, 01:58 PM
Apr 2015

From Green Tech Media

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Report-Load-Defection-from-Customer-Owned-Solar-and-Batteries-is-Already

Forget the threat of solar- and battery-equipped customers defecting from the grid. The real threat for utilities unwilling to adapt to grid-connected customers installing ever-cheaper solar and energy storage technologies is “load defection” -- and that future will come whether or not utilities and regulators support it with net metering regimes and customer-grid integration, or try to fight it with fixed customer charges and other roadblocks.

These are some of the top-line findings from “The Economics of Load Defection” report released Tuesday by the Rocky Mountain Institute, CohnReznick and Homer Energy. Calculating the economics through 2050 for median commercial and residential customers in five U.S. markets, the report shows that grid-connected solar-storage systems are already more cost-effective than grid-supplied electricity in expensive electricity markets like Hawaii, and will be more economic than grid power in three of five U.S. geographies studied, including California, New York and Texas, within the next 10 to 15 years.

That, in turn, could lead to more and more customers shifting their energy load from utility-delivered electricity to their own self-generated and stored power -- thus, the term "load defection."
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