2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumKnives out for solar- ALEC & fossil fuel lobby gets MN House plan to gut clean energy
Before the worst of the worst, the back story needs to be told. The fight brewing in Minnesota is just one of many happening across the U.S. In an article entitled Utilities wage campaign against rooftop solar, The Washington Post reported on the campaign by utilities and its fossil-fuel supporters to stop residential solar. The Post says that legislation to make net metering illegal or more expensive has been introduced in legislatures in nearly two dozen states. The Los Angeles Times article, Koch brothers, big utilities attack solar, green energy policies links the effort against net metering to the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) and the Koch brothers.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/07/1376222/-Knives-out-for-solar-ALEC-fossil-fuel-lobby-gets-MN-House-plan-to-gut-clean-energy
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)95% of the hydrogen we create comes from natural gas.
They would LOVE for us to all drive hydrogen cars and go to hydrogen stations.
The future is clear:
Distributed energy generation, solar rooftops, more wind.
And, battery electric vehicle and plug-in hybrids.
My Volt is all-electric at any speed for the first 35 miles, then has an onboard gas generator.
Pennies per mile.
concreteblue
(626 posts)Hydrogen is easily electrolyzed from water, urine, and other liquids with basic solar power. Yes, the bis energy corp mafia is pushing hydrogen from fossil fuels, this is a dead-end, and probably purposely so.
Many creative people working on this tech....don't be such a negative Nelly......
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Trust me, solar to hydro is neither efficient nor cost effective.
It might make sense for places remote from the grid or other energy connections, but not for you and me.
Dude.
concreteblue
(626 posts)If the input is free, efficiency is low on the list of concerns.......
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Then H2 is pointless.
Just because the radiant energy is free, creating electricity at about 20% efficiency, taking that straight to the motor or to battery storage is far more efficient than the H2 process.
A: Radiant to electricity, to battery and end use
B: Radiant to electricity to electrolysis, to compression, to fuel cell conversion, back to electricity, to end use. It makes no sense.
Generation source output to end use: I'll take 86% efficiency over 25% any day.
Photo credit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy
95% of the hydrogen made today in the US uses natural gas. Big gas and oil are major sponsors of the hydrogen economy.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)concreteblue
(626 posts)WHat was the thermal efficiency of the internal combustion engine when the Model T Ford hit the streets?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)We didn't have an electricity infrastructure that could make EVs practical except in cities.
In fact, EVs became commercially available in the 1890s, about the same time that internal combustion vehicles were first sold. New York City even had a fleet of electric taxis in 1897!
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/electric-car-timeline.html
The first car designed by Ferdinand Porsche was an electric car and appeared in 1898, named the Egger-Lohner electric vehicle. The same year he built the first true gas electric hybrid, the Lohner-Porsche.
For the US, the energy content of gas and the fact that electricity distribution was VERY limited meant that ICEs were going to dominate.
And once the oil companies established their sales and delivery infrastructure, they weren't about to let some GM EV-1 screw it up.
Today there are dozens of EVs and PHEVs on the market with more coming every year and with greater ranges and more infrastructure.
The oil companies don't want to give up their business of delivering fuel and fueling stations, so are pushing hydrogen.
Don't help them.
I charge at home, at work, at my friend's house and if I run out of battery charge or need to go on a long trip, my onboard generator takes care of me.
TTFN
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Rather than buying cheap solar from users with too much energy, they can keep buying more expensive coal electricity, and have fewer and fewer people to sell it on to.
ellie
(6,929 posts)I would not put it past the Kochs and their minions.
mackdaddy
(1,525 posts)From Green Tech Media
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Report-Load-Defection-from-Customer-Owned-Solar-and-Batteries-is-Already
These are some of the top-line findings from The Economics of Load Defection report released Tuesday by the Rocky Mountain Institute, CohnReznick and Homer Energy. Calculating the economics through 2050 for median commercial and residential customers in five U.S. markets, the report shows that grid-connected solar-storage systems are already more cost-effective than grid-supplied electricity in expensive electricity markets like Hawaii, and will be more economic than grid power in three of five U.S. geographies studied, including California, New York and Texas, within the next 10 to 15 years.
That, in turn, could lead to more and more customers shifting their energy load from utility-delivered electricity to their own self-generated and stored power -- thus, the term "load defection."