2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum“Are you a Democrat?” “No,” Sanders replied
On Thursday, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont became the first candidate formally to challenge Clinton. But after a 10-minute appearance outside the Capitol detailing his intentions, Sanders revealed a rather glaring weakness in his pursuit of the Democratic nomination: He isnt planning to register as a Democrat.
He neglected to mention this during his speech and news conference, in which he vowed to take on the billionaire class. But Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times called after the wild-haired socialist as he walked back to the Capitol.
Are you a Democrat?
No, Sanders replied, Im an independent.
http://wapo.st/1EAk0NF
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Republicans in all the off year elections and casts his votes consistently with Democrats, also caucuses with them.
He has been welcomed to the party by the DNC's DWS and Hillary herself. He will take more of the Koch heat than anyone, although HRC is the recipient of their baleful eye right now.
The party needs to attract the true independent voters (not the faux ones too ashamed to admit they always vote GOP) and he was elected as an Independent and no doubt he is staying loyal to his voters with this.
But he is, in his own way, a true Democrat in what he values and supports. I don't have a problem with his honesty in this matter and hope rank and file Dems won't hold this against him.
The Democratic Party welcomes a number of people who are from lesser known parties to run, and even some that they didn't like. I appreciate his not trying to be something he's not.
MADem
(135,425 posts)He's not necessarily running "as" a Democrat.
He's running under the umbrella of the party to which I and many here belong, while eschewing actual membership in the party.
The reason he is able to do this is because our rather generous and inclusive rules allow this.
Joe Lieberman did something similar, though the circumstances aren't quite the same. He LEFT the party, called himself a "Democratic Independent" or something like that, and caucused with the Democrats in order to get a committee assignment. He was a bit of a disloyal bastard, though. He played both sides against the middle on occasion until Reid gave him a wedgie.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)I think our rules are broad and have been abused at times, most especially by the Larouchies. But the GOP was snagged by the KKK David Duke, and some red live Nazis in some states.
Other than the Larouchies, who we've had trouble with in my district, like Libertarians, who come into open house meetings to disrupt, I like out outliers far better than GOP outliers, wow.
And I don't really see Sanders as an outlier, as he's for government programs, regulations and laws that help the poor and middle class. He is stalwart on that front, and trusted well enough by Democrats to allow him to sit on committees to stymie GOP tricks.
He's realistic on foreign affairs, but I don't see the brilliance in him that I've seen in Obama. Hes' an old war horse, nothing wrong with that. HRC would do a fine job in all areas, and would work to lift up half the human race, as she's proven that many times.
Also more progressive than Bill or many other progressives for some years now, despite what the CT says from some of the right/ left. She is real thinker, but her presentation is so nuanced, a bit like Obama's, so too many don't understand where she's coming from on issues. She doesn't sell herself as a product.
Naturaly listening to a candidate in order to learn them, requires an open mind, which some do not have, clearly, after twenty years of RW propaganda on her. The old 'a lie repeaed enough becomes the truth' adage is never more clearly demonstrated than by the HRC detractors, ready to jump on Rush and Alex's bandwagon.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... in the Democratic primary, not AS a Democrat. According to this report he DENIED being a Democrat.
Pretty puzzling and evasive IMHO.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)More than honesty and deceit? I think not.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)...and they matter as a part of communicating and establishing trust, loyalty and a wider sense of what is right and wrong above and beyond any particular stance on a particular issue.
Trust and loyalty matter to the establishment of justice because justice is not an individistic, personal choice, as right and wrong sometimes are. Justice is a collective condition that requires collectives action today's bring about. Mutual loyalty and trust aren't necessary to collective action in pursuit of justice; labels and other declarations of alegence and fidelity are important to that.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Carrying for the working class and the marginalized, matters. Carrying for the environment matters. Carrying for peace, withouth votting for wars first and changing your mind later, matters.
Give it a thought.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... and exactly how does saying you are a Democrat contradict any of them?
Adsos Letter
(19,459 posts)Actions speak louder than words.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Truth and honesty trumps all the labeling in the world.
We vote for honest candidates, which represent us, the working and marginalized class.
Sorry you have a problem with that.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Try walking into a Democratic Party meeting, declare you have no intention to identify as a Democrat and announce that you plan to run for an office.
We would first laugh at you and then invite you to leave ... and it would matter how "truthful and honest" you are/were.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)in any given state if he is not registered as a Dem?
If not, then he has to register, right?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)At least that is my understanding. Ky recognizes only 2 parties for presidential elections. I am trying to clarify this with Alison Grimes' office but have not heard back yet.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)For the primaries, a person's name will only appear on the ballot for the party that he/she is registered.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)(And I'm still trying to game this out in my head ... I have to go back a read/listen to Bernie's announcement)
I don't think Bernie's strategy is to enter the Democratic primaries ... rather, mount a very early 3rd-party campaign DURING the Democratic primaries.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026451036
If he abuses the party and tries to be a spoiler, splits the vote, etc., that would not be honest and I do think he is impulsively honest even if people don't like what he says. If he does as you say, the hell with him.
It would be a disaster for most. In fact, might as well kiss the USA bye if the GOP gets Ted Cruz or Rand Paul in office. They've said and tried to dismantle the federal government completely. They want a default, for the dollar to go bust.
They are the face of what Bernie says he is against, Koch rule. So I am not thinking this is what he intends. HRC, we know is not going to be for drastic things, either, but plans to expand on what Obama has done.
JMHO.
Please note he has made the rounds of Democratic Party institutions. This explains that this is part of the party.
If he doesn't win the primary, he will still have brought up issues that must be talked about in this country. When you look at his agenda, which has been posted here, there are many fair minded Americans who simply do not feel it meets their needs and others who feel it does.
The important thing, is that the HRC supporters will get behind the nominee of the Democratic Party, just as she did Obama. I believe she is really stronger on womens' and gay rights, and other good things, than anyone but Obama. He has been a unique gift to the USA. We will not see his like again in our lifetimes and I began missing him as soon as he was re-elected.
Now there may be something that is extremely wrong with Sanders, but I don't think this is it. Listen carefully, and you can see that Sanders has supported Obama in many ways, in ways that would shame the ODSers. I'm not sure that Sanders or Clinton can win in 2016. We will lose for sure if this bickering at DU is any sign of the electorate. If it is, with the visceral CDS that some cannot restrain themselves from spewing, we will lose in 2016.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)If he folds up his tent before the end of the Democratic primaries. He won't be a spoiler, if he is not in the running during the General Election.
And I doubt his outsider run will affect, much, the results among the candidates running within the Party.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)I am not sure Kentucky does, that is why I am waiting on a call from Grimes office.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)I agree that this is puzzling and evasive. Odd that his supporters hate the big bad DNC, yet it is the DNC who has welcomed an Independent to the Democratic Primary.
4dsc
(5,787 posts)His ideas are much better Hillary's at this time.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)..to what extent he can be considered a serrious candidate who is in it to win and deserves the time and energy needed to support his effort.
Here on DU there was a lot of concern expressed about whether he would acept being part of the Democratic Party and the presumption was that if he ran he would register as a Democrat.
It seems like a simple, straight forward and even necessary thing to me. The fact that he will not bodes ill for his campaign. I am skeptical about his claim to beach in it for the win.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)You dont think Bernie is" serious candidate"?? Bernie didn't flip flop on serious matters like others did. He has integrity, and that means everything, friend.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... a picayune, puritanical integrity is indicative of a serious candidate who is in the race to win. If he is unable to consider himself a Democrat and can't come right out and say he is, what is he doing running in the Democratic primar?
I think his candidacy is off to a rather Quixotic start. Not a good sign.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)That doesn't even deserve a response from my part.
Have a nice day.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... to consider what it actually means to be a "serrious candidate" and what being serrious about winning office and exercising power for the good of us all may require.
rbnyc
(17,045 posts)...can we have an issues-based primary?
The whole world is sick of us treating this like a team sport cycle after cycle.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)...a team sport. Also a contact sport.
Ok, in sports, what is more important, the uniform or the skill set?
A rose by any other name...
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... a team is the ability to work together for a common goal and the ability to set aside some personal interests in the pursuit of that goal. That is a very important skill in the skill set.
In politics team work is an important asspect of the job - absolutly essential. So is communication to establish trust in others as part of the team. Thus party affiliation and loyalty are important, and communicating affiliaton and loyalty are important if you want to be considered a serrious candidate.
rbnyc
(17,045 posts)...Bernie doesn't know how to work with people?
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)So Mr. Sanders cannot register as a member of the Democratic party.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)have his party "affiliation" identified on that form) he will tell the state how he wants his party affiliation to appear on the ballot. The state will print that information on the ballots that voters use.
The consent form's purpose is to tell the state that the candidate does, indeed, want to run, and how to spell the candidate's name, and how the candidate's party should be identified.
So, he won't be "registering" as a voter, but he will be "registering" his affiliation as a candidate, and that will be printed on the ballot.
The reason that Patrick Leahy is called a Democrat is because that's how he's listed himself on the VT ballot each time he runs for re-election.
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)I just get tired of certain people harping on and on about whether he has "registered" in the Democratic party.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Warren were all full tilt Republicans, Webb a Reagan administration official no less. After months of being told that it is heresy to so much as ask Liz Warren why she was a Republican all through the GOP's malicious negligence toward AIDS while tens of thousands of Americans died, I find it ludicrous to see Bernie's credentials challenged.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)...it will become a distraction and an impediment. Why can't he just say, "I'm a Democrat" and get it out of the way? My opinion is that if he is a serious candidate in the race to win he would do just that, no dancing around.
dgibby
(9,474 posts)something I find quite refreshing. He's a Democratic Socialist, why would he lie about that? More to the point, why would you want him to?
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... I'm just not going to take him serriously nor expect much from his candidacy unless he is willing to publically declare himself to be a Democrat.
As far as lying goes, party affiliation is a declaritive act. Saying it makes it true.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Campaign as he stated to George Stephanopolis on ABC this morning.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)However, how will he run in the Democrat Primaries, while denying that he is a Democrat (i.e., not being a registered Democrat)?
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)try convincing millions of Democrats that support their party of that.
tblue37
(65,273 posts)PosterChild
(1,307 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Can an Independent run in the Democratic primaries? Does anyone here know what, if anything, the regulations say?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Sanders said on the ABC Sunday show "I'll do whatever it takes in each state to get on the ballot."
So I guess if that means joining the Democratic Party he'll do that.
He also said he'll not run as a 3rd party candidate if he loses the Democratic nomination.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Sanders said on the ABC Sunday show "I'll do whatever it takes in each state to get on the ballot."
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Hopefully, this will put all concern trolls mind's at ease. They can now sleep safe knowing that they can take his candidacy seriously.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)In a two party winner take all political system it is common for responsible political figures who belong to smaller political affiliations to join with one of the major parties in a political alliance. Unlike in a parliamentary system, it isn't done by joining into a coalition to form a governing majority, it is done via running under the banner of one of the two major parties. Typically a relatively significant "third party movement" like the the Working Families Party in New York State (or the Conservative Party in NY for the other side) run lots of Dems (or conversely Repubs) on their ticket and far less often the major party will allow a lesser party member to run under their banner in an election as part of the overall horse trading.
That is our system. The Democratic Party has no problem with Bernie running for the Democratic Party nomination, why should any of us?
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)...since I am the OP'er, I have no problem with him running In the primary. I think it's good.
However, I don't think that the "Democratic Party", taken broadly as those who vote and identify as Democrats will have "no problem" with him distancing himself from that identification. Judging by past discussions on DU and by the article posted, it will be difficult for the broader Democratic Party to take him serriously.
And your characterization of our two party system is quite correct.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)but change the title. Pardon me if I point out that your agenda is showing.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)I'm done with this thread.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... provide an interesting and salient fact that supprised me quite a bit - that Sanders still refuses to identify with the Democratic Party despite running in the Democratic primary and despite wanting today's be taken as a serrious candidate who is in it for the win.
Over all the article is interesting and makes a good point - that democratic presidential assperants are not making a strong effort today's criticize HRC. Including Sanders, who ducked the opportunity to do so. Why, I wonder, is that?
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)"The Democratic presidential nominee that doesn't have to be a registered Democrat"
"Bernie Sanders might not be a member of the Democratic Party, but the independent senator from Vermont is openly considering a run at the party's presidential nomination -- and that might not be a problem after all.
According to a Democratic National Committee aide, Sanders would not have a problem getting on Democratic primary and caucus ballots because the current party rules do not call for presidential candidates to be registered members of the party.
The DNC defines a presidential candidate as someone who "has accrued delegates in the nominating process and plans to seek the nomination, has established substantial support for his or her nomination as the Democratic candidate for the Office of the President of the United States, is a bona fide Democrat whose record of public service, accomplishment, public writings and/or public statements affirmatively demonstrates that he or she is faithful to the interests, welfare and success of the Democratic Party of the United States"
""There is no registration requirement," said the aide. "You have to be a good faith Democrats, but you don't have to submit some sort of proof of registration. There is no long form birth certificate required showing you were born a Democrat."
States do have the ability to write their own rules for who qualifies as a candidate in their respective primary or caucus, but the aide said no one at the DNC can recall a state that has ever included being a registered Democrat as a requirement for their presidential candidates.
That is the case for Iowa in 2016, too."
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/10/politics/bernie-sanders-democrat-or-independent/
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)Last edited Sun May 3, 2015, 12:39 PM - Edit history (1)
.... have you ever heard of TL;DR ? In retail politic, verbosity is not a winning strategy.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)was about HRC not Mr. Sanders. You offered nothing in your post in regards to your opinion, nothing original. Therefore you should have used the proper title of the article in your post. You changing it to make it sound like Mr. Sanders is being dishonest and hiding something is in my opinion- you being dishonest.
Calling me a loser isn't going to change the fact that you posted that little snip of article with an agenda and not all of us here fell for it.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... I did not, and I did not intend to call you a loser... that would bbe disrespectful. I'm sorry if I gave that impression.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
merrily
(45,251 posts)only Senator who does that. He also caucuses with Democrats in the Senate. Schumer, former head of the DSCC and current Democratic Senate Leader is fine with him. The DSCC doesn't even bother to run anyone against him. The DNC is using his entry into the Democratic primary to raise money.
Comments on facebook, reddit and DU indicate Indies and Greens are changing their registration back to Democratic because Bernie is running.
If the DNC doesn't object to his running in the Democratic primary, but is using it to raise money, why do you object? If Schumer doesn't object, why do you object. If no Democratic politician seems to be objecting, why do you object?
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... but I will not consider him a "serrious candidate" who is "in the race to win" if he can't run in the Democratic Primary as a Democrat. And it is unlikely that many others will either.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... being discussed in the main stream political press I guess a lot more debunking is going to have to be done.
And it would be so simple to kill this as a concern - when asked if he is a Democrat he could have said yes. End of story, no debunking necessary.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)You then tacked on your own projection that he wouldn't be a Democrat in future.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... be a Democrat right now, while announcing his candidacy and fielding questions from reporters, what hope is there for the future? IMHO, this is pretty sad state of affairs for a candidate that wants to be taken seriously as in it for the wiìn.
NoJusticeNoPeace
(5,018 posts)ballot in the primaries if not registered as a Dem, if not, then to NOT be a spoiler, he has to register, I think, right?
are there Bernie and Hillary supporters on DU who dont want to turn every question into a fight? if so I want to hear from you, those who insist on fighting, please dont respond
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Tad Devine, a Democratic political consultant working with senator, points out that because Sanders has come up politically in Vermont -- a state with no party registration -- there is actually no way for him to register officially as a Democrat. "The mechanism doesn't exist," said Devine.
The political consultant, however, said that in order to get on the ballot in some states, Sanders would have to "pledge some allegiance to the Democratic Party."
"He won't have to sign on to every plank of the Democratic platform in order to get in, but he will have to acknowledge that he is running as a Democrat," Devine said. "I think Bernie will have to do that."
Sanders has caucused with the Democratic Party ever since he came to Washington as a congressman in 1991. He unsuccessfully ran for the United States Senate in 1971 as a member of Liberty Union party and, in 1981, when he successfully ran for mayor of Burlington, Vermont, he did so as an independent. At times, the senator identifies as a democratic (small D) socialist.
But now that he is considering a run for the Democratic nomination, his calculation is changing.
"I am getting balder and balder trying to figure these things out," he said at an event in Washington, D.C. on Monday where he acknowledged -- as he has before -- that he would not run outside the Democratic party establishment.
Whether he would change his party affiliation is another story.
"That is a decision I would have to make," he has said.
Devine, the political consultant working with Sanders, put it bluntly: "Would something stop Bernie from running as a Democrat? The bottom line answer to that is no."
PosterChild
(1,307 posts).... for some reason he is able to run as a Democrat. It sounds like Sanders is doing some spinning. And the sad thing is, he doesn't have to. All he has to do is say he's a Democrat. So why not?
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)"have you ever heard of TL;DR ? In retail politic, verbosity is not a winning strategy"
I'll shorten it for you, Oh, and I bold highlighted it for you too.
"I am getting balder and balder trying to figure these things out," he said at an event in Washington, D.C. on Monday where he acknowledged -- as he has before -- that he would not run outside the Democratic party establishment.
Whether he would change his party affiliation is another story.
"That is a decision I would have to make," he has said.
Devine, the political consultant working with Sanders, put it bluntly: "Would something stop Bernie from running as a Democrat? The bottom line answer to that is no."
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)If he does not change his party affiliation to "Democrat", he will be "primarying" HRC, without "primarying" her.
On the plus side, it allows him to get his message out without even have to acknowledge HRC's candidacy.
But on the down side, it will deny folks the organized, head to head, debates that so many wish to see.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)Bernie Sanders has MY VOTE.
Yes he does!!!
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)whether he plans to enter the Democratic Primaries ...
As a Democrat, only registered Democrats can run in my party's primary election. PERIOD.
Otherwise, I don't care how he identifies.
CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)Right on!! I'm with you!!
Response to PosterChild (Original post)
Post removed
DebJ
(7,699 posts)with way too much success.
The parties do evolve over time.
The ideas matter. The rest is semantics.
emulatorloo
(44,106 posts)Tells me all I need to know about your source. Very very shallow.
Sanders is running in the Democratic primary to win the Democratic nomination for President. In the Senate he caucuses with the Democrats.
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... how them danged editorial cartoonist portray him.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)To make a determination on who to vote for based on cartoonists drawing him with uncombed hair?
CrispyQ
(36,446 posts)And so it starts. The marginalization of a great candidate. The MSM is such a big part of the problem.
still_one
(92,116 posts)Declare a party affiliation. Bernie and his staff have already said within 15 days they will satisfy all requirements to be listed as a Democrat in all 50 states. In addition, Bernie has been cacusig with the Democrats in Congress since first getting into politics, so I write this off to typical Washington Post misinformation, or Chicago Sunday Times
PosterChild
(1,307 posts)... the question was posed by a Chicago newspaper reporter. For a serious candidate that is going to have enough difficulty establishing his bonafides without such distractions this should have been a no brainer.
still_one
(92,116 posts)Within 15 days that he officially does that he will be a Democrat period
Cleita
(75,480 posts)did, making them spoilers. He has always said he is a social democrat but since we don't have a parliamentary system in this country, he can't do that. However he can be the Democratic Party candidate in the general election if we back him up.
mike_c
(36,281 posts)Finally, someone who represents my political interests running for president of the United States!
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Labels are meaningless, imo.
Policies and stance on issues are more important, imo.
I'm registered as a Democrat, and probably have voted for DEMs 90 percent of the time, but I vote for the candidate, and where they stand on the issues, rather then just for a party.
Now, most of those candidates are DEMs, but I am certainly open to voting for candidates of another party if I feel they are the best candidate and/or believe in the things that I believe in.