Why Bernie Sanders doesn't talk about race (Vox)

[Recursion]

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/27/8671135/bernie-sanders-race

A lot of people are very excited about Bernie Sanders's presidential campaign. It's not hard to figure out why: there are a lot of those progressives out there who are very concerned about economic inequality, the rise of the super-rich, the financial industry, and the role of money in American politics.

But there's a reason I say "those progressives" instead of just "progressives": because not everyone in the Democratic base shares those particular passions, or those passions alone. For other progressives — many of them black or Latino — economic inequality is important, but so is racial inequality. They're extremely concerned about racial bias in policing, and about ending mass incarceration. They're concerned about the treatment of unauthorized immigrants, and about protecting voting rights (an issue like campaign finance where progressives are worried the integrity of the political system is at stake — and where the outcome doesn't look good for them).

And Bernie Sanders doesn't speak to those concerns. He didn't mention those issues in his campaign launch yesterday, or in his email announcement to his supporters last month, and they're not on the issues page of his website.

...

But Sanders has only been able to build a career on talking about his own political principles, and assuming voters will respond, because he's in an unusual position for a Democratic (or Democratic-affiliated) politician. Sanders's Vermont is pretty homogeneous: 94 percent white, 96 percent American-born, relatively well-educated. Sanders has never had to win an election by working to appeal to white, black, and Latino voters all at once — he's won election after election by successfully representing the concerns of a single constituency. Most Democratic politicians at the statewide level don't have that option.

It links to Vox's profile of Sanders from last month, quoting:

Debs's portrait is a reminder that over Sanders's four decades in politics — as a perennial third-party candidate, mayor of Burlington, congressman, and then senator — he's been laser-focused on checking the power of the wealthy above all else. Even as a student at the University of Chicago in the 1960s, influenced by the hours he spent in the library stacks reading famous philosophers, he became frustrated with his fellow student activists, who were more interested in race or imperialism than the class struggle. They couldn't see that everything they protested, he later said, was rooted in "an economic system in which the rich controls, to a large degree, the political and economic life of the country."

"Bernie is in many ways a 1930s radical as opposed to a 1960s radical," says professor Garrison Nelson of the University of Vermont. "The 1930s radicals were all about unions, corporations — basically economic issues rather than cultural ones." Richard Sugarman, an old friend who worked closely with Sanders during his early political career, concurs. "We spent much less time on social issues and much more time on economic issues," he told me. "Bernard always began with the question of, 'What is the economic fairness of the situation?'

[WDIM]

1. Exactly it all comes back to economics and education.

The true ism in the united states is classism. Poor is poor and the poor is discriminated against, taken advantaged of, manipulated, and exploited.

Economic equailty is racial equality.

[Recursion]

2. Well, the point is that narrative is more popular among white liberals

than it is among liberals of color.

[CTyankee]

11. How do you know that? I haven't seen anything that supports the economic vs. racial justice

meme. As a white liberal, I see them linked inextricably. What am I missing here?

[Recursion]

13. You're missing the experiences of persons of color

Last edited Thu May 28, 2015, 11:20 AM - Edit history (1)

I mean so am I, but i'm married to one and she tries to clue me in more.

[CTyankee]

14. I can never be anything other than what I am ethnically, but I can listen and have an open mind.

If the argument is that Bernie needs to have a broadly diverse staff and he needs to listen to what they have to say, then I agree one hundred percent.

[Recursion]

15. As I understand the argument, it's that he should talk about race and doesn't (nt)

[CTyankee]

16. But that doesn't prove that he isn't interested/doesn't care about racial justice...

I am sure he will. Just because he started on one topic doesn't mean he doesn't care about the others. Let's see where he goes before we start doubting his bona fides.

[1StrongBlackMan]

20. I think the argument is a little different ...

no one (few) question that Bernie supports civil rights; but, he clearly is in the economic equality will end (lessen) social inequality.

The vast majority of African-Americans' lived experience begs to differ.

[CTyankee]

23. you may be right, if I am missing that part of what he said at his announcement.

I will go back and read more about what Bernie has been saying. He would have to be a cold bastard indeed to imply that once economic equality is achieved, social inequality will also be achieved. The facts are out there for all to see. Racist social policies in this country are responsible for the suffering of so many communities of color across the country. Business as usual will only cause more suffering.

[1StrongBlackMan]

25. Oh how I wish I had saved/book-marked an interview Bernie gave ...

(within the past year) where he was asked about racial equality and Bernie basically said the same thing that is said here ... the one thing/something all working class folks have in common is being screwed by the rich ... and that is how he intended to affect Black folks, by fighting for our common economic justice.

[CTyankee]

27. I note he has a 97% rate given by the NAACP on affirmative action

his voting record on civil rights is here

http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Bernie_Sanders_Civil_Rights.htm

This is an instance where we have to look at what he actually DID on Civil Rights when given the opportunity to vote on them. I think track record is a good indication of what he would do in the future.

[1StrongBlackMan]

19. You are missing what the vast majority of African-Americans ...

on this board have said ... over and over and over again.

[CTyankee]

22. No, I do understand and I agree Bernie should of course address racial equality issues

very strongly. I would be very surprised (and deeply disappointed) if he didn't. And I wouldn't support him unless he did. We must have a candidate that is committed to racial equality as much as to economic equality. To me, they must be addressed and be a major effort. No question about it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

24. Do you think/believe Bernie is of the ...

economic justice (i.e., income inequality, jailing the bankers that trashed the economy, restraining CEOs pay and Taxing the wealthy significantly more) will bring social justice (i.e., racial, gender, LGBT equality)?

[CTyankee]

26. I've just been reading what Bernie said about Bloody Sunday recently and his words

were very encouraging to me. I also looked up his voting record in the Senate on civil rights and that encouraged me also. So far I've found nothing to indicate that he believes that all we have to do is achieve economic equality and race problems will automatically go away. While income inequality affects every poor person, that is no reason to say "race problems solved." Because it isn't true.

But I will continue to stay keyed into this issue and I thank you for discussing it. I believe it is important.

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. Still lookinf; but ...

found this interesting blog piece:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/05/22/1386854/-Bernie-Sanders-and-Minority-Voters-in-Democratic-Primaries#

[swilton]

4. +++

Last edited Wed May 27, 2015, 11:03 PM - Edit history (1)

I think it could be argued that race is exploited and can be used to divide and exploit the greatest numbers by the fewest. Whereas if people united by class, they would have the power of numbers which in theory would result in a stronger democracy. That might be the Sanders logic and is perhaps derived from the Marxist framework.

The early 20th century Soviet Union is in theory an example. The Bolshevik government defined themselves as the 'Union of Soviet Socialist Republics' so that each of their republics although ethnically different would have equal status. Again, in theory, the Bolshevik Revolution was the beginning of an international workers' revolution that would transcend state/ethnic boundaries to commence a revolution toward an international classless society - socialism. Following this logic, the international nature of the classless society would have appeal and attract workers as revolutionaries because the unification of greater numbers of colonized would be able to gain control over the fewer numbers of imperialists/capitalists. This process would have had appeal at that time to places like India (as well as other states subject to colonialism) which was engaged in a long running anti-colonial movement with the British...Thus the Indian struggle for independence could be looked at through the Marxist lens as a class struggle as the Soviets did, or through a racial lens....both are valid descriptors.

[joshcryer]

8. The Bolshevik's used class as a tie to ethnicity.

The Cossacks, Volga, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Poles, Chechens, Ingush, Crimean Tatars, Tajiks, Bashkirs and Kazaks were all different "ethnic groups" who were punished by the Bolshevik's under the auspices of "enemy of the worker."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Soviet_Union

I think that is a rather myopic view that doesn't recognize the reality that actually happened.

I'm not dismissing rank populism or state socialism here. But I think you need that ethnic and cultural recognition otherwise you risk falling to the cycle where "anything but the people" becomes an excuse to actually ostracize and punish a group, which tends to become ethnic or cultural.

[swilton]

30. The expulsions were in the 1930's

after the decision had been made to abandon 'international' socialism and to achieve socialism within the Soviet Union prior to its global export. Many factors - such as the civil war - and western support for monarchist Russia to include post WWI invasion influenced that decision...And its a given that the translation of socialism to the Soviet Union failed on many levels.

My only point is to suggest that the causes of economic inequality are many - and to some the cause is not found in ethnicity and race but the source is structural.

[KamaAina]

17. An interesting take on that, "rankism"

http://www.newsociety.com/Books/S/Somebodies-and-Nobodies

In the on-going attempts to overcome racism and sexism in North America today, we are overlooking another kind of discrimination that is no less damaging and equally unjustifiable. It is a form of injustice that everyone knows, but no one sees: discrimination based on rank. Low rank -- signifying weakness, vulnerability, and the absence of power -- marks you for abuse in much the same way that race, religion, gender, and sexual orientation have long done.

When discrimination is race-based, we call it racism; when it's gender-based, we call it sexism. By analogy, rank-based discrimination might be called "rankism." Somebodies and Nobodies explains our reluctance to confront rankism, and argues that abuse based on power differences is no more justified than abuse based on color or gender differences. It shows where analyses based on identity fall short and, using dozens of examples to illustrate the argument, traces many forms of injustice and unfairness to rankism.

Somebodies and Nobodies unmasks rankism as The Feminine Mystique unmasked sexism. It demythologizes the prevailing social consensus -- the "Somebody Mystique" -- to demonstrate the pervasiveness and corrosiveness of rankism in our personal lives and social institutions. The book introduces new language and concepts that illuminate the subtle, often dysfunctional workings of power in our social interactions. It presents rankism as the last hurdle on the long road from aristocracy to a true meritocracy, brings into focus a dignitarian revolution that is already taking shape, and offers a preview of post-rankist society.

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. NO ... IT ... DOESN'T!!!! ...

Economic equality is racial equality for those that do not suffer with racial inequality.

[Thinkingabout]

3. This will be an issue which will be facing a president, more often then we need but still something

which needs to be addressed.

[Tarheel_Dem]

5. Could this be considered "race baiting"? I ask cuz I've been accused of pointing out the obvious.

I don't believe Bernie Sanders has a racist bone in his body (hopefully), but I found his announcement audience very "homogenous", and got a post hidden because I dared compare that to another politician. I was accused of "race baiting" & "hippie punching". Go figure.

[ucrdem]

6. "Come not between the dragon and his wrath"

or something like that, from King Lear, the archetypal mad-as-hell male. Holy cow.

p.s. it's dragon, just Googled it . . .

[Tarheel_Dem]

7. If this were a Republican event, we could point out the obvious, and get high fives for it. But....

as the o.p. seems to insinuate, we can't ask this question of a "Democrat"? I'm sorry, but we've discussed for years the angry white mobs at Palin rallies, or Santorum, or Ron Paul, but because Bernie is an "economic populist" we're supposed to assume that he's right on race issues. Sorry, but I'm not going to make that assumption out of fear of having a post hidden.

If Bernie's supporters, who are supposedly leftist allies of the AA community, go all squishy & squirmy on matters of race, then we're in a helluva lot more trouble than I thought.

[joshcryer]

9. I saw your post and I disagreed with it.

It is Vermont after all: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont#Race_and_gender

But it did not deserve a hide.

[Tarheel_Dem]

21. Thanks josh. Reasonable people can disagree. I took issue with the claim of "race baiting" &

"hippie punching". Matters of race are very important to me, as they are for most PoC. Just because we get shut down from expressing our concerns doesn't make the issue go away, it's just been swept under the rug for the time being.

[CTyankee]

12. who is going squishy on race issues? This either/or argument is totally manufactured and

I don't see a shred of evidence to support that it is real. except maybe in some people's imagination, but certainly not in mine.

[Joe Chi Minh]

10. It took a world war, arguably two, to get socio-economic justice off the ground.

Last edited Thu May 28, 2015, 09:51 AM - Edit history (1)

What the French call, 'Les Trente Glorieuses' the three decades after WWII.

But racism is a hydra - the 'many headed beast', in its most primal form in all of us: 'He blong other tribe. Me no like', but uttered at a sub-rational level. Even among coloured folk, that primal, psychopathic impulse will sometimes be felt in terms of the darker shade of another person. But rising above that ought to be manageable; indeed, not to do so, is a terrible indictment of how slowly man has developed, ethically.

Allied to that, is the much more intractable racism of disparate religion and culture, especially when the population of foreign incomers approaches the level of the host nation. Of course, immigrants challenging for jobs - often in the UK better educated, more personable and with a conscientious, but not idolatrous work ethic - is a real concern for the unemployed and the working man, when they will settle for lower wages.

And I believe Bernie being Jewish, would know how deeply-rooted racism tends to be. We remember the Jewish business shysters who rook us, but ignore the many good and kind Jewish people, and even the great ones, like Bernie and the late, Paul Wellstone, worldlings, people of great worldly intelligence, who yet, rarest of creatures, manage to be extremely spiritually wise. That is a curious feature of the Jews, generally, though it is not acknowledged.

The World only admires the worldly intelligence, so we hear about the massive preponderance of Jewish Nobel Prize laureates, yet they are only the other side of the coin of the sharp business types. At this time, you can't have one without the other. We should be grateful for the medical pioneers, who have contributed so much.

Anyway, the long and the short of of it is, that campaigning explicitly on racial justice is likely to be counter-productive to some extent - what with the Republican voter suppression and all the rest; as well as endemic racism in the population. Also, when economic justice is able to get off the ground, indeed, once God willing he is in office, it will be much easier to bring about increasing improvement in racial justice. That's my 002$ anyway.

[JustAnotherGen]

28. This is an interesting fact -

Sanders's Vermont is pretty homogeneous: 94 percent white, 96 percent American-born, relatively well-educated. Sanders has never had to win an election by working to appeal to white, black, and Latino voters all at once — he's won election after election by successfully representing the concerns of a single constituency. Most Democratic politicians at the statewide level don't have that option.

Multi race appeal - is going to be something new for him.

I had never even considered it. Will it matter in the end? Who knows.

But that's going to be interesting to watch his evolution on.

Thanks for this!

[cascadiance]

29. I think with the amount of problems people of color have with problems of today...

... it could be a full time job championing their causes up and down the scale of different issues that they need to have changes on. I'm totally with them that they need that support.

I think the big challenge Bernie has, is that he's running for president and representing everyone, and so many other causes that he champions that are getting ignored by Washington too. And like some note here, many of these causes of trying to help balance out the class struggle, really also help those of color too, though perhaps not as directly as many of them (and us) might like.

This is where some good cabinet appointments, and his appointment for Attorney General to head up the DOJ will be critical to ensure that his administration (were he to get elected would be comprehensive in the reforms needed on race).

But I think it's hard for me to swallow that he "doesn't care" about people of race just because these issues aren't at the top of his list that he talked about on day one.

I do think he might want to elevate them some. That's a valid criticism, but I think that on balance, to expect them to dominate his platform I think asks him to be a different politician he has been in trying to fix the fundamental problems with our system that has become so corrupt over the last few decades. It's more a question of priorities than whether he's "racist" or whether he cares about people of color. There are a lot of issues that have been ignored by our bought political system. It is a real challenge on how to prioritize them. I don't envy Bernie in that regard.

You know, I think what would be a real good way to get him to speak up on these issues is to call Thom Hartmann's Friday Brunch with Bernie show. Thom Hartmann certainly has been a champion of many of these racial issues more than so many other media outlets on his various shows both on FSTV and on RT. Perhaps he can be asked politely and provide a good response on how he feels racial issues fit in to his total agenda, and I believe, given what I've heard him talk about on shows like this over the years, that he'd give a good answer too.