2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumKos: A Black Man's take on NN/BLM dustup: "Black Folks No on Bernie? Really?"
Last edited Mon Jul 20, 2015, 07:08 PM - Edit history (1)
Black Folks No on Bernie? Really?JUL 10, 2015 * Daily Kos * by liberalminded
I find it disturbing that a few ostensibly Black diarists/commenters have said that "Black people don't like Bernie" and that Hillary will be the candidate of Black voters.
As a Black man, I have to say that's preposterous.
Bernie has issues on race, don't get me wrong. He should be much more out front about Black Lives Matter and police brutality, and should acknowledge that America's imperial wars abroad disproportionately affect Black communities. His staff should have more Black people, and he certainly could have done more in the Senate to reach out to Black communities.
But to act like Hillary is somehow better on race than Bernie is absolutely ridiculous--willfully ignorant of the reality of her tenure at the State Department, her votes in the US Senate, and her role in her husband's administration. For any thinking Black person to say Hillary is better for Black folks than Bernie is to be "out of their minds," to quote Malcolm. While NAFTA disproportionately affected Black communities, I have limited time here and so will focus on the most egregious example: welfare reform.
If you read the awfully-written "It Takes A Village" you will see that at every moment Hillary is repeating the argumentative tropes in favor of welfare reform. And I am not exaggerating to say that TANF was the greatest legislative assault on Black people in the modern era.
Who led the charge, intellectually? Charles Murray. Who defended Losing Ground and Murray? Bill Clinton, saying "He did the country a great service." In case some of the pro-Hillary commenters don't remember, Charles Murray wrote The Bell Curve, which was the greatest pop culture assault on Black life since Birth of a Nation.
The climate during welfare reform was racist to the core. Welfare recipients were read as Black women stealing government benefits--a trope developed by Murray and Reagan.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/11/1401252/-Black-Folks-No-on-Bernie-Really
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whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)and with everything I had against welfare reform. It's passage still makes me tear up a bit when the issue comes up.
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Another great move on Reagan’s part. Oh yeah he was a GREAT president. 
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)that just replaced the old Workforce Investment Act, which of course replaced the old Job Training Partnership Act that replaced CETA in about 1986.
Under WIOA we are trying to do more training for people using different avenues.
Yeah, I know it isn't perfect, but other good news is that Congress - that august body in its infinite wisdom - is currently exploring reauthorization of PRWORA, including provisions for more training. Seems some good people all over the US have convinced these people that it makes more economic sense to train people for jobs that a) exist, b) pay a living wage and c) have benefits than it does to make them 'serfs' who have to 'earn those welfare checks.'
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)I wasn't aware that that was under consideration, hopefully something will come of it. I'm still hoping somewhere in America someone will get inspired to do a Bauhaus-type school which would include training for arts and sciences. Yes I'm that hopelessly naive and optimistic.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)
Zorra
(27,670 posts)to be "out of their minds," to quote Malcolm."
And the same reasoning applies to every other minority in the country.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)should revisit Malcolm and learn what he meant by that (not so close to what Malcolm said) quote.
Trust me ... you would not be "Yesing" the actual quote, if taken in context.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)if you consider that there is some context which completely contradicts the ordinary meaning of those words, lets hear it.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I did find circular references that all lead to a socialist organizations pamphlet that was used to solicit in the Black community ... that said he said it on two occasions ... one in an unpublished interview to a the socialist periodical and in an undated, unverifiable "speech to students in England ..."
Perhaps you will have better luck validating the statement.
(BTW, wikiquotes cites to "Malcolm X Speaks" and even gives a date and a page number ... but going there, leads back to the socialist organization.)
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It's on page 69, in the chapter "The Harlem "Hate-Gang" Scare" and is in his response to the question, "what political and economic system does Malcom X Want?"
This makes the third time I've pointed this out to you 1SBM. I hope I won't haveto make it four.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And if you scroll down to page 69 (this excerpt starts on page 64) you will see this page:
Unfortunately while the speech is on youtube, the questions he took after it are not, as far as I can find.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)absolutely refuses to acknowledge the significant role of capitalism in America's long, long, history of RACISM. and that's what the privileged class is want to do, isn't it? 
..
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts) 
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Not being able to have capitalism without racism doesn't assume that you can't have racism without capitalism.
Joe Chi Minh
(15,229 posts)
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Hillary supports those policies, Sanders opposes them.
And as someone whose own history reflects the minority oppression of Western European racism I cannot imagine how anyone can claim to oppose racism, yet support these racist wars.
Left coast liberal
(1,138 posts)
Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)
Post removed
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)but it got hijacked by Hillary supporters. They're worse there than they are here. They end up CMPLETELY off topic in what could have been a decent subject. Notice the derailment.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)sez an ostensibly Black diarist/commenter.
Was there more after that?
brewens
(13,574 posts)jazzed that Bernie had a bad day. I find it hard to believe black people are all that stoked to see Hillary in the Whitehouse.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)they were not necessarily "Bernistas" or "Hillarians" or whatever the latest bullshit monikers are
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)do you NOT see how F'ked up your trotting out the "Random Black Guy Says" posts are, especially knowing that the "Random Black Guy Says" position is nowhere near the mainstream of Black thought? ... Even if you, as a PoC, happen to share the opinion?
Let me go a bit farther to put a finer point on it ... Are the republicans' racist messages, any less racist because Thomas Sowell and E.J Jackson share those messages? {ETA:} Does a Sowell or Jackson co-sign make the messages valid, just because a Black man said it, too?
So, as a Person of Color ... Please stop!
sheshe2
(83,746 posts)
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)but you said it much better.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)It's perfectly reasonable to excerpt from Daily Kos to get another opinion on this. Why on earth would you think otherwise?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I am saying that the outlying position, BY DEFINITION, does not represent the mainstream thought of a group, even if you hold it.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Eom
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I am not home right now. I'm on my tablet and haven't figured out how to open multiple windows to search and link.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)I want to see some results fron the 900k she has spent on polling so far.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)I was just thinking the same thing about the author of the piece in the OP.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Babel_17
(5,400 posts)Is he part of an outlier group?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
marym625
(17,997 posts)Are just dismissed.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)I'm a random guy on the internet. I don't presume to speak for anyone but myself. Are you something more than a random guy on the internet? Do you speak for all PoC? Is the diarists opinion invalid or unworthy of consideration? Do we need to pass these things by you before posting them here? 
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)he's wealthy, he drives a 2015 Infiniti something, and he's a "strategic communications consultant", whatever the fuck that is.
Don't you get it? Normal peasants aren't allowed to speak, except through him.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Truth is, who really knows who anybody is on the Internet?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and other PoC.
I do not drive an 2015 Infiniti ... I drive a 2014 Nissan Altima; though, I am looking at a 2015 Range Rover (but I'll probably wait until the 2016s come out).
I am not a "strategic communications consultant" ... I am a Human Resources Consultant that specializes in strategic communications.
Don't you get it ... you STILL know nothing.
d_r
(6,907 posts)range rovers are like a hole to throw money in. They are always breaking down. Repair and maintenance costs a fortune.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Back to consumer reports.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Seriously don't do it unless you want to enrich a mechanic.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I didn't know!
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)of course it takes a mint to keep those heaps of shit on the road. Thats why only stupid rich people can buy them, ergo the shittiness of the car actually reinforces the social cachet attached to driving it.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)and my share of the family trust alone could probably buy your house. That's what happens when you've had money long enough. The pearl clutching instinct dies down a little. You start to feel a little noblesse oblige, a niggling concern for the poor. Unless of course you're a complete bastard in which case you carry on as before.
Let me see, I volunteer for eight charities, most with a middle east focus. I am on the boards of two. I donate to probably two dozen more (10% of my income).
I help organise and donate to the Eid al-Fitr celebrations in my city each year, although I am not a Muslim, but its a nice interfaith gesture. That requires me to speak to Sudanese, Somali, Nigerian, Arab, South east Asian and Pakistani and Bagladeshi people, pretty much every PoC that lives in these parts. I happen to speak a couple of languages so even though they probably dont need me any more I guess I must still be useful.
I don't regard that as somehow equipping me to speak for Arabs, much less People of Colour - Ive never been particularly keen on that term, anyway. And I sure as shit don't troll a fucking message board demanding to be uncritically accepted as the authentic mouthpiece of all Arabs worldwide.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts) 
Now ... accurately reporting the polling data regarding a sub-population does not make me speaking for anyone ... Noting that. a single opinion (or even several voices), selected specifically to counter the polling data regarding a sub-population, is divergent from the mainstream does not having me demand a damned thing, much less make me a message board troll.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But I can repeat what survey data indicates.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Well a survey doesn't give anyone the right to set the rules for an online forum.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)wider even than her wide lead with white people. But does it also say why? What are the reasons given for her support?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I was asking seriously, out of curiosity. If she's polling by such extremely large margins, surely there's some specific things that are coming up. You suggested that 'mainstream black thought' is pro-Hillary, so surely there's some specific reasons being batted around that form the basis for that mainstream thought.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Her surrogates can make whatever targeted assertions they desire. She will not ever be held to anything though, as she has never made a definitive policy stance herself.
senz
(11,945 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I think, and have been told, HRC is more attractive to Black voters because she's a known quantity ... Most know her history and her story and liked her from 2008 (despite her SC mis-step).
Further, I've been told their in her camp because (rightly or wrongly) they see her as electable against any republican candidate.
And finally, I have been told that folks know that there is a limited amount of political capital to be had and believe his focus will be on economics, leaving little space for non-economic matters.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Those are a lot more understandable than what you've been told by what I assume were supporters of other candidates.
But they don't offer as much of a chance for Bernie to make inroads as I'd hoped. Sure, he's still got a long way to go in terms of introducing himself, and addressing issues in ways that are appropriate, and I am willing to bet that his 'electability' polling will keep going up against Repubs the longer the race goes, but that third one is the really tough nut to crack. Even if he does 'split his focus', that limited capital is always a problem. Still, I think there's already room even WITH the current Congress to move forward on some issues dealing with the justice system, and Bernie might actually be able to work with Republicans a bit easier than Clinton, given for how long they've been demonizing her to their base. They're not going to be able to simply turn on a dime and start working with her on much of anything without having the base turn on them. Unless she truly does have enough coattails to flip Congress, I suspect she'll be treated in much the same way Obama has, minus the racism, plus some sexism.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Is a really good point ... I just resigned myself to the idea that republicans weren't going to do anything with Democrats.
luvspeas
(1,883 posts)
merrily
(45,251 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)Is there a mainstream of white thought? Or is it only Black people that all think alike?
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)diversity of viewpoints. I, for instance, prefer socialism, but not a pure model. The democratic socialism of Sanders suits me very well (I am an economist).
I opt for a more regenerative economic structure than the current neoliberal shit hole we all have to live in. In fact there's an absolutely stunning essay called 'regenerative capitalism.' The concept is to organize a fair economy that does value hard work, but also values all the people in the community, the environment and the workers. It advocates things that have been successful in many local areas - slow money, slow food, micro lending, B corporations, and employee owned companies.
It was an awesome read; I literally could not put it down.
Of course,
I'm kind of a nerd, at least according to my wife 
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)whether you wish to ignore/deny it or not.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Even if you do disagree with it?
I personally remember Bill Clinton's assault on Welfare and how ugly that was,
and how hurtful it was to poor people of all color, and I found this article to be
a helpful reminder. If it's not helpful to you, don't rec it & move on.
BTW - the author quoted Malcolm X, not Thomas Sowell or E. J. Jackson.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)THAT is exactly the wrong way to think about it. Some issues are not about economics, some are issues of race.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)But I can speak for poor people because I've definitely have been one
and know how it feels to have to choose between food and paying the
electric bill.
It's a incredibly cheap-shot to try to twist that into something "racist", but
apparently that's all you got.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)And where did you get that anyone made anything racist?
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)THAT is exactly the wrong way to think about it. Some issues are not about economics, some are issues of race.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=463822
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)Last edited Mon Jul 20, 2015, 09:25 PM - Edit history (1)
this primary because they realized we would all be supporting Sen. Warren given the chance, so they look for other disgusting ways to malign the other side.
As living breathing contradictions to the message they are pushing right now we pose a serious threat and need to be shouted down quickly. The posts lumping us in with Ben Carlson and Justice Thomas and the rest of the black republicans are extra special, got to give them credit for keeping it classy.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)ybbor
(1,554 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)It's pretty disgusting.
senz
(11,945 posts)...but I think the PUMA crowd may still be waving the sexism card. When voting to hide a comment of mine that attempted understanding and sympathy for their strong, personal attachment to their candidate, one of them called me "paternalistic," and another "sexist." Of course, I am female, a Democrat, and of Hillary's generation.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And imply poor white don't matter because they have white privilege...and that means they never go hungry or homeless I guess...and even if they do so what...they deserve it because white privilege.
It is all about dividing us up...it always is.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Not the acknowledgement that there are racial issues that cannot be solved through economic strategies.
Why do you insist on saying people are "implying" what no one has said? Is that why you use the word, "implying"?
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And if you solve problems for poor white and black people is that not a good thing?...do we only deal with things on a racial bassis?...do we have a black economic plan and a white one?
That would be racist.
But implications are always there...that is what a dog whistle is...a negative implication.
But if we disregard implied meaning then you can never accuse someone of racism because they never use the N word.
If you want that to be the rule then abide by it yourself...but that will not set well with people here who read sexism, misogyny, and homophobia into all kinds of things they think are implied when no one says it.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)That would be racist.
Yes, it is ... No, we shouldn't, there are economic problems that can only be solved through economic actions ... Yes, we do and we always have ... Yes, it is and it's called institutionalized racism.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)It is much harder to look down on someone who is leading a middle class life...but easy for some to justify their feelings when they are poor.
And the child of a poor family is far more likely to grow up poor because hungry children do not do well is school...and that is another reason to think of them as inferior.
But I am curious as to what you think is a black economic plan...welfare perhaps?
The only plan I know of is equal rights which brought black people into the middle class starting in the late 60...but I don't think of equal rights in employment a black plan...it is justice not a plan. A plan would be to raise the income of all people.
And a plan like raising the minimum wage would help proportionally more PoC because the greatest proportion of them are poor.
But beyond economic justice I don't know what you want done. Do you want a law passed that makes it illegal to be a racist? Thought crime leduslation?...no, to me economic justice is not the final solution but it is the most important one.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)bank$ter/donors have been telling people for a long time.
"It's not economics, it's that people who look like you just can't do the thinking work."
Actually a whole lot of these issues are economic at their core, unless it is convenient for them not to be for someone to prove an argument, or to bully someone. lol
gollygee
(22,336 posts)That's why some issues are not economic and are just about race.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)for less of a reason, or killed unjustly. They get worse medical care. There are tons of ways all people of color suffer from racism, and it isn't a matter of opinion.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)about race. On that we can agree.
Some, taking a wider view might consider more factors - more like real life or death instead of your constrained fantasy - and realize that the likelihood of this happening had the economics been different make this much less likely.
But if it helps calm you, please continue looking at that little piece.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)once for being black, once for being poor, but wealthy and middle class black people get pulled over at higher rates than white people. The infant mortality rate is higher than that for white people, even when corrected for issues like education level and wealth. Trayvon Martin was from a middle class family. Being black in a middle class area is what made him a target.
I'm not talking about one incident. I don't know why you even got that impression. And there's no fantasy involved here.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)jtuck004
(15,882 posts)time management.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)You don't know the racial history, past and present, of this country.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 01:55 AM - Edit history (1)
in high school? What was the biggest personal decision that came from that?
Since you know so fucking much about what I know that should be an easy one for you.
----
Time. Crickets. No answer. - what I figured.
Not wrong at all. Economics and racism are as intertwined as two lovers ever were.
I don't understand why your ego is so much more important than finding a solution, especially since people are dying. But whatever floats your boat.
I don't want to argue with you, but you seem most interested in not getting along. That just bores me. I have real things to do.
So good luck with your quest. Bye.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)you wish, most of whom say economics and racism are part and parcel of each other - is wrong. (other than the right-wingers who insist that race and economics are separate. They aren't worth my time).
There was economic exploitation of people all over the world before this country was exploited, mostly slavery or servitude of people with the same color skin. By the time we get around to the exploitation of Early America, when the Native people refused to be slaves and moved, white people were then used but they had to be paid and could free themselves.
People from Africa were then stolen from their homes, and the ones who lived were enslaved here, not only on plantations but on many small holdings. But like those who had gone before them, there were free black folk, and those who could purchase their freedom.
As slavery itself became threatened, our uniquely virulent, hateful, murderous brand of racism in the U.S. - different, more deadly, more ingrained into our life than nearly any other place in the world, began to grow in response. We built on that economic exploitation by passing laws that began to teach people to hate black folk, to see them as less than human.
You can no more take the foundation out from under a house and expect it to be the same than you can take economics out of racism and discuss it separately. I won't bore you with the list of people I spoke with in earlier years, people you may know but have certainly read about the places I went or studied.
It's a quick synopsis, but I am on a laptop keyboard, so it's close enough. That's what they taught me.
You seem to think you know better than all of them, so please feel free to lay out any major (is there anything not major on DU? lol ) points of contention, who might have other evidence that is as well supported and useful, etc. Something other than just one of 412 million or so opinions again. Please. Oh, please.
I might be wrong. I'm told I have been before. But I hate to lose the chance to learn something.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)He gets pulled over in his own rich neighborhood!
ybbor
(1,554 posts)He took video of his encounters iIRC.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)years ago and it saves me a whole lot of bother. I've been tackled from behind because I was wearing my gym clothes when I taking my briefcase out of my old beamer.
The funny thing is I almost bought a tesla without thinking about it. Lucky for me I realize in time that it would be back to the bad old days of getting pulled over a few times a month if I did.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)That's why I no longer drive a Benz!
One of my, 2 business owning, 300 employee having, Fraternity Brothers recently switched from a 2010 Lexus SUV and bought a Jag F Type.
He told me yesterday, that he's going to limit it to his "Sunday Go To Church" vehicle because he's gotten stopped 15 times, within a mile from his home, in the last month and a half.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Rilgin
(787 posts)Sometimes your views have made me think. Sometimes I have agreed with your positions. Once a while ago I engaged in a disagreement before I realized that there would be no possibility of you meeting a fellow human on mutual grounds. To you all that people are are white or black and you do not think that white people are people who can have wisdom that you do not have.
In most ways you are invested in thinking that white people do not understand what it is to be human... meaning facing problems in life and coming away with wisdom or with no wisdom and you do not look at yourself in that vein as well.
More importantly you are invested in the belief that the problems that black people face with racism is so incredibly different than any other race has faced in the history of the world so that no one else has any comparable issues or will even understand. If i had to place an order of being screwed with by the world, I might pick some of the people in Southeast Asia (the Hmong). In the 20th century, there have been a number of genocides. Do you really think black people are the only people who understand what it is like for society to go after them based on circumstances beyond their control. Do you think that other families do not understand worry for their children on a variety of factors even if they are not being black and running into a racist policeman. I had a policeman handcuff me and hold a gun to my head and I am white. Has that happened to you. If not, do you think I can relate more to the possibility of police violence or you. I was scared shitless and I realized how close a line I had come.
So I have avoided answering your posts. Sometimes I find you absurd and sometimes I learn something. I would never discount your feelings. However, whether your feelings are reality is where we all have the right to disagree.
However, then I read your posts in this thread and had to laugh. I find it absolutely incredible that you are both considering buying a new Range Rover discuss driving your benz and bmw and spend your time asserting that other people are privileged. You really should look inward before throwing that word around. The most important privilege is security for you and your children. I suspect that you have that security in abundance from this thread.
I can and most liberals can believe that rich black people get stopped more than others and that they can run into both institutional and direct individual racism. It is crystal clear that there are significant issues in the justice system and in the interaction between police and young black men. However, rich black people are more similar to rich white people and rich people of every race creed color and religion and their problems or lack of problems are mostly in that class. The problems with shootings by police are mostly in poor black men, not in rich older black men notwithstanding that fact that rich black men might get stopped.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)there are whole schools of academics where I would automatically defer, science being among them ... However, you are quite correct, I do not believe that there are (many) white people with greater wisdom about the Black experience in American than me ... just like there are no (few) men with greater wisdom regarding gender issues than the woman that lives them.
I have no doubt white people understand what it is to be human; though, I rile against those that would deny me my humanity ... and a big part of claiming my humanity is my embracing that part of my humanity that others attempt to deny me ... my race, in all of its uniqueness.
What? I can't have nice and shiny things AND recognize that I got those shiny things DESPITE the lack of racial privilege? And, despite, having those shiny things in shiny places, actually puts me at risk? Yes ... I, and my family, have a measure of security that my affluence purchases ... and I lack a security that NO amount of money can purchase, but others, even the poorest, are born with.
Joe Chi Minh
(15,229 posts)that you are both considering buying a new Range Rover discuss driving your benz and bmw and spend your time asserting that other people are privileged.'
This is why I've been saying that it's wrong to refer to the unambiguous 'full-bore' persecution of blacks (remember the days of black is beautiful?) with the delicate circumlocution, 'white privilege'. I suspect that this delicacy about such a depraved truth, on the part of the AAs, is because they feel that even acknowledgement of it, somehow gives it force, is somehow fed by acknowledgment of the full scope of their own personal-nightmare perspective on it.
So, no. I don't think there would be too many people who daily carry the burden of such gratuitous, wanton hatred and its scandalously recent history of lynching and slavery - not to even mention today's growing free for all. No, not one people, actually. No other people has seen its members made the subject of a picnic to take the kids too, grinning insanely and laughing as the victims were almost literally sliced, diced and cooked over the flames of a bonfire, before being hanged by the neck until dead. I don't like to say it, as there are, of course, many good Southerners, but I can't think of any people who have sunk so low in all mankind's long, sordid history as the denizens of the American South - not even the Nazis, for whom unsurprisingly white, wannabe Southern supremacists have a certain publicly-expressed tenderness. 'Shame? What's shame?'
And while it may be an object, Christian lesson in 'not putting your trust in men', for a rich black man, after all his striving, to be still subject to the petty persecutions of his economically poor fellow AAs, the feeling of a knife in his heart must be all the keener.
MLK was right. It won't go on forever. The Promised Land does seem to be in sight, and there will surely be a reckoning in this life, just as David predicted in his Psalms.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)It's bad to say "poor people of all color"?
Can we say "poor black and brown people?"
And fuck those poor white people?
That's how you come off.
We're so far down the rabbit hole when people take flak for saying things like "all lives matter" or "poor people of all color."
That's taking special pleading right over the cliff.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)when we wanted to support Obama. We were told to shut up, it wasn't his time yet and that the black community had decided on the Clintons. More things change the more they stay the same. It is absurd to make up an opinion for the community on a person most of the community hasn't heard of yet.
Give it a few months and see what people think next summer once normal people start paying attention and getting a feel for their options.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Entered this race with only her in mind, because she was "supposed" to win 2008 and didn't. It was her turn then and she lost, so it's really her turn now. Maybe they can't allow anyone to supersede her in their minds, because of this "preset" notion.
What bothers me about this thought is recalling Romney's wife saying "It's our turn"...I can picture Hillary thinking that too. It gives me chills.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)pointing out that someone is of a minority opinion is not silencing anyone ... if anything, it just puts it into context.
Why are you so intent on silencing another brother's voice? See how that works?
And, NO! The author did not quote Malcolm.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Actually I didn't mean you shouldn't post on my OP if you disagree with it, but I can
see how you might have gotten that impression; so I do apologize for that.
But I do not apologize for posting the OP, or for caring enough to listen to voices that
may or may not represent 'mainstream" thought.
The article did cite Malcolm, whether it was a direct quote per se, I do not know.
merrily
(45,251 posts)represent the view of either a majority of Americans or of a majority of African Americans. You did not say you were posting a majority opinion.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)How is "So, as a Person of Color ... Please stop!" just putting thing in context, and not trying to modify their behavior in order to encourage them not to share what they think?
druidity33
(6,446 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)None whatsoever ... I do, however, object to the trotting out of a Black person, for no other reason than to have a minority view be, somehow, less minority. It is as distasteful to me for the left to do it as when the right trots out Jackson or Sowell to valid their racist narratives.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)He just cannot say why.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)though I am lean towards O'Malley. What about that do you not understand?
Besides, I have also said that, because my state's primary is after Super Tuesday and after most of the swing states, and because my work schedule does not allow for me to travel to work ANY candidate's campaign, who I support doesn't matter.
So I will continue doing as I always have ... work Democratic Vote Registration and GOTV efforts.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)'You will know them by who they refuse to criticize'
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Your insolence.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)We can support the guy you don't like, but we can't be black while doing it. Thanks boss man for keeping us in line, can't be acting all uppity now can we.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
KeepItReal
(7,769 posts)"Mainstream Black Thought" has no memory?
How do I tap into that Mainstream Thought as a Black man, myself, and interject history and alternative viewpoints without being labeled a one-off random Black guy whose views apparently don't matter when they support a certain candidate and weaken others?
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)The OP contains some solid reasoning behind his thinking. And I will say his reasoning closely reflects my own. But I'm very willing to consider arguments to counter that reasoning, if you have the time and the inclination.
As for who speaks for PoC I should think that is a rather insulting concept. The "Black vote monolith" meme bothers me, but I stand here outside the group, so my bother is probably not a matter of note in that arena.
Anyway, if you care to describe why Hillary well represents your concerns for social justice, I look forward to learning something that I hadn't considered.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)oh.
Thanks.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Does. Not. Compute.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)but this post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=463737
seemed like an attempt to define and control "acceptable" discourse.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Especially when your own argument is weak. But 1SBM is not censoring you or anyone else.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)What in the OP warrants your comparison to Thomas Sowell and E.J. Jackson?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
Cha
(297,154 posts)Next year Netroots is going to be in St Louis..
"In a statement, Netroots Nation Executive Director Raven Brooks stood with the protesters. “Although we wish the candidates had more time to respond to the issues, what happened today is reflective of an urgent moment that America is facing today,” Brooks said. Next year’s conference will take place in St. Louis, close to Ferguson, and local leaders of the #BlackLivesMatter movement will be directly engaged, Brooks added. “We plan to work with activists there just as we did in Phoenix, to amplify issues like racial profiling and police brutality in a major way.”
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122329/bernie-sanders-and-martin-omalley-failed-their-blacklivesmatter-test
Imani Gandy @AngryBlackLady
If I see one more Bernie acolyte mention that he marched with MLK, I'm going to burn the Internet to the ground. @EdDescault @Eclectablog
4:23 AM - 19 Jul 2015
That @AngryBlackLady tweet, sent out to her 35,000 followers, inspired Roderick Morrow—who runs the “Black Guy Who Tips” comedy podcast with his wife, Karen—to launch the mocking hashtag #BernieSoBlack:
Morrow, who goes by @rodimusprime on Twitter and has more than 11,000 followers, said he was surprised his impromptu hashtag suddenly took off. “I just thought it was a funny joke!” he told The Daily Beast. But he added that his lighthearted jab was rooted in a serious concern about Sanders’s candidacy.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/19/blacktwitter-turns-on-bernie-sanders.html
Shout Out to the African American Group: Vindicated!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=18544
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Is it different from regular Twitter?
zappaman
(20,606 posts) bravenak
(34,648 posts)Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #13)
AgingAmerican This message was self-deleted by its author.
merrily
(45,251 posts)What is wrong with anyone of any hue posting a piece by an African American who likes Sanders? The OP copied and pasted and posted without comment. The OP said nothing about the Diary being a majority opinion or a minority opinion.
We all know what the polls say.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)When looking for it, I noted that you had used "See Post #173" as a reply to many posters. I don't know if it fit their posts, but it does not fit mine.
This was my post:
wow.
What is wrong with anyone of any hue posting a piece by an African American who likes Sanders? The OP copied and pasted and posted without comment. The OP said nothing about the Diary being a majority opinion or a minority opinion.
We all know what the polls say. ]
Your reply #173 says:
No! To be clear, I have no problem with Black folks that support Bernie, and/or hate HRC ...
None whatsoever ... I do, however, object to the trotting out of a Black person, for no other reason than to have a minority view be, somehow, less minority. It is as distasteful to me for the left to do it as when the right trots out Jackson or Sowell to valid their racist narratives.
I bolded the only part of it that seems to apply to my post. However, my statement that we've all seen the polls negates that the OP is going to seem "less minority?" to most DUers. Also, I think its crappy and very condescending, for you to state, as though it were fact, that the OP, who is a person of color, "trotted out a black person" for no other reason that to try to deceive DUers.
Nother is wrong with posting a minority view of Americans or of African Americans, without trying to sell it as a majority view; and the OP never tried to sell it as a majority view. Moreover, if the OP had tried to do that, he or she would not have succeeded because, as my post said, 'we've all seen the polls--and the OP knows very well that we've all seen the polls (which makes your claim about the OP's motives worse).
Finally, even if the Op were attempting deceit. the reasonable reaction would have been to say, "That article is, of course, does not represent the view of a majority of African Americans." And, maybe, if you were ambitious, post a link to a poll, even though most of us would not have needed it. However, this was your reaction, or more accurately, your overreaction:
Let me ask you ...
do you NOT see how F'ked up your trotting out the "Random Black Guy Says" posts are, especially knowing that the "Random Black Guy Says" position is nowhere near the mainstream of Black thought? ... Even if you, as a PoC, happen to share the opinion?
Let me go a bit farther to put a finer point on it ... Are the republicans' racist messages, any less racist because Thomas Sowell and E.J Jackson share those messages? {ETA:} Does a Sowell or Jackson co-sign make the messages valid, just because a Black man said it, too?
So, as a Person of Color ... Please stop!
And then, your Reply 173, ascribing deceitful motives to the OP when the fact that we have all the seen the polls and the OP knows it suggests there was no such motive.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)luvspeas
(1,883 posts)The internet makes people think they actually know a black person.
Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #13)
savalez This message was self-deleted by its author.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)have also come alongside tweets of their irritation that people assume that just because they're down on Bernie, they're 'up' on Hillary.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I don't listen to millions of black tweeters, but over the last week or so, I've dipped into several streams to find out what's going on. I believe I had 'AngryBlackWoman' in my stream at the point at which I saw tweets like that, although I don't recall if she specifically tweeted that, or it was just part of a retweet.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)That's one thing I don't do. You can make your mouth say anything to make a point.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)and don't know half of what the platform can probably do. I MIGHT be able to find them again, if I spent hours and hours looking for them.
But you might note my reply to another commenter - I'm not claiming those were representative tweets of 'all black people'. They were simply tweets from people who were irritated at Sanders supporters who were making automatic assumptions about black people 'all being in the can' for Clinton.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)They were simply tweets from people who were irritated at Sanders supporters who were making automatic assumptions about black people 'all being in the can' for Clinton.
I wish the hell I knew where all of this crap about Hillary is coming from. Because HIllary/Bill ran one of the most racist campaigns against Obama in 2008, most black folk promised they would never forget it. Some of Sanders supporters can get a tad bit rude and hostle, but I guess it's all in the heat of the fight to win.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I don't know what it is about it, but it keeps freezing up my admittedly really old laptop every time I try to do anything, like clicking on the 'view 1 new tweet' or scroll down even a bit. And half the time I can't even see the supposed new tweets after it updates AFTER I've clicked on that link.
There's got to be a better way to use it than whatever default view I'm using. Nobody would bother with it if it was this much trouble for everyone.
JI7
(89,247 posts)Many of Sanders supporters are making this out to be more about the primary. Especially Clinton v Sanders.
But that's not what it's about for most. It's not even about which candidate will do more because what they are trying to focus on goes beyond that. Hillary can drop out of the race and blm would still have fine the same.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Add in BLM not disrupting Clinton events and shit like "Not Good Enough, Bernie", and people are going to assume Clinton support.
It's not like they're likely to support Webb or Chafee. Because Webb or Chafee supporters of all races and gender are extremely rare.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I've only been trying to follow a few streams off and on recommended to me by an AA DU'er.
So my comment is as anecdotal as the OP, it's not a perfect reflection of how Clinton is viewed by all AA.
I had to ditch @AngryBlackWoman, it was drowning out everything else in my twitter stream. She must spend her entire day tweeting and retweeting.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And those reasons are not exhaustive.
druidity33
(6,446 posts)
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I was reading those a day or two ago, and I can barely figure out how to scroll backwards a few tweets at a time.
For all I know, they ARE for Hillary, but just ticked off that people assume that being down on Bernie automatically means they're for her.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Stellar
(5,644 posts)Crazy talk! I have to agree with the person that wrote that.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Clinton seems to be making fewer mistakes right now, but she's made some whoppers in the past and has almost certainly hired people to help her with this, and that was wise. Sanders should do the same.
Of course, that's all just my opinion and I'm a wealthy middle-aged white woman. No pro on the voting patterns of African Americans. I have to rely on polls, but that information seems clear. Sanders has some work to do if he's going to attract African American voters. He might very well be better on race issues than she is, but he has to communicate that. If he doesn't talk about it, and pretty often, many African American voters might not have confidence in him. I am not sure why he isn't talking about it. Either he doesn't think he should have to, or he's afraid of scaring off white voters? I hope not the latter because that would make me switch to O'Malley. (I will vote for Clinton in the regular election if she gets the nomination, but I don't intend to vote for her in the primary.) If it's the former, he needs to re-think things because he won't win that way, even with my vote. I imagine there could be some other reason, like he's new to national elections and this didn't occur to him. He needs to step up his game in any case.
The person who wrote this appears to be one of the 21% of African Americans not supporting Clinton.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/bernie-sanders/
On the Democratic side Hillary Clinton is dominant. She gets 64% to 14% for Bernie Sanders, 8% for Jim Webb, 5% for Lincoln Chafee, and 2% for Martin O'Malley. Clinton has 79% support from African Americans, is over 60% with liberals, moderates, men, women, younger voters, and seniors, and is over 50% with whites, Hispanics, and middle aged voters.
Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)
Dr Hobbitstein This message was self-deleted by its author.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)the diarists (a black man) opinion with a shit-stirring smear not in itself, racist?
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)and what I responded to. Perhaps that 3rd beer was unnecessary. I'm gonna self-delete. Please, don't hold this nonsense against me.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)just objecting to his being used by folks that consistently have shown that, but for his race, they wouldn't give a sh!t about his opinion.
And that, I might add, can be just as racist as when the right trots out Sowell and EJ Jackson to validate their talking points.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Look, when you're being told 24/7 on a political forum that your guy is tone deaf to the issues of PoC, wouldn't you want to provide alternative perspectives for balance? I didn't post it, but I read it and appreciated it. Trying to set rules dictating who gets to post what, when, where, and why is BS. Also, I don't know how you determine who wouldn't give a shit about his opinion. Are you referring to the OP, me, or just whites?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)your wisdom/edification/awakening will come from the empathetic journey; not, from the words that have you reflexively, defensive.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)cop out.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and attempting to have someone else MAKE you understand, what you refuse/pretend to understand.
Empathy takes great courage.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)What I don't have is patience for people trying to control the dialog with inappropriate framing.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
randys1
(16,286 posts)The right does this ALL the time, BTW
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and, in my opinion, rightfully, condemns the transparent practice ... and questions, why that Black person allows him/herself to be used in that manner. (See; Uncle Tom threads)
But suddenly, THIS using of a Black voice to validate a position that is in the clear minority of the Black mainstream, is different.
randys1
(16,286 posts)drive me crazy, I have NO right to judge them.
I simply dont know what I would do if I was born into a group that is treated so horribly and unfair that it might drive me insane.
But yes, anything will be used against you by white people, most, many, etc.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)As most would argue (if they were honest) that they are not using the Black voices AGAINST me; but, rather to advance/validate their opinion.
randys1
(16,286 posts)defer to your or anybody else's feelings.
It is called privilege.
Who knows why white people do what they/we do when it comes to Black people.
But it is ingrained in ALL of us.
If we have to compete fairly, we are in trouble.
To compete fairly we have to first do something about reparations.
I might have strayed from the OP here but there is no end to the fear white people have of Black people, which is what this is all really about
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)white people using a weapon against blacks in general and not simply an attempt to show there's more support for Sanders than some would have you believe? The only way your contention makes sense is if Sanders is your enemy.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Do you think it a coincidence that the OP selected the Diarist, a Black Blogger? Or, was the Diarist posted to push back against the polling of Black respondents?
And HOW is that different from when the rw trots out Sowell and/or Jackson?
(Notice: I ignored your "Sanders is the enemy" straw-man.)
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)1) If you're going to rebut the IMO insulting meme that all PoC are of one mind on Sanders, you're obviously going to do it with the opinions of PoC. It's that simple.
2) Do you believed the diarist was thinking "Man, I sure hope no whites exploit me by reposting this"? I imagine as a Sanders supporter he hopes his opinion gets spread all over the place, by whoever. I also bet if he were reading this thread, he'd reject your premise because...
... 3) You're exploiting him more than anyone.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)1) Straw man. No one has said that (and, I'll get this in ahead of the predictable curve), nor has it been implied ... It HAS been said that PoC that support Bernie are in the vast minority.
2) No. This isn't about what the Diarist wrote or thought when he wrote it ... I am speaking to HOW the OP used it ... not much different from how the right uses Sowell and Jackson.
3) ???
Edited to ask ... How is 99th Monkey's posting that to validate that there ARE, in fact, Black supporters of Bernie (something, BTW, that has never been in question) any different than the right posting Sowell or Jackson to validate that there are, in fact, Black people willing to parrot "Black teens are thugs, born of welfare cheating mothers and absent fathers" narrative?
(I notice you keep ducking that point.)
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)to silence alternative opinions with the disgusting framing that any white who posts it is doing so for racist reasons.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)has a way of making people uncomfortable. Good day.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)This wasn't posted to be used against "black people", it was posted to show that some AAs support Sanders. What's wrong with acknowledging that fact? Is everything a personal affront?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)A minority giving justifications for dismissing a minority opinion from another minority. Nice work.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)What part of this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=465420
Has you confused?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)but I think you're a little confused. Why are you so invested in keeping the majority view, majority. Why is advocating a minority view a problem?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)just keep arguing with yourself, since reading what I wrote is unnecessary to your response.
Done.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)I just don't think it's all that.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
heaven05
(18,124 posts)I think...... So true......
heaven05
(18,124 posts)as the nominee. That's firm. on edit: yes if she's the nominee, I'll have to vote for her.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Seems like a bullshit hide to me.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)not long after it was posted
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Thanks.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)
MisterP
(23,730 posts)unless Garífuna are suddenly not AA (in the broader sense)
of course the hall monitors now say they're Sanders supporters who're just so CONCERNED at the St Andrew's Cross-waving, Rebel Yelling, contraception-denying Sanders supporters
forest444
(5,902 posts)And who'd want to do that more than anyone: not Hillary necessarily (who can't control the MSM), but Wall Street (which largely does).
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)greenman3610
(3,947 posts)When are we going to get it that this kind of thing just diminishes our candidates? Why are progressives so willing to torpedo their own candidates when they don't deliver a pink unicorn?
It's not a black thing. It's not a white thing.
It's more of "There's not a dime's worth of difference between Al Gore and George Bush!"
Doesn't anyone remember how that turns out?
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)in time for the primaries .. one of the most ridiculous aspects of this dividing & conquering is we're doing it to ourselves.
But the most absurd thing about it is that of the three candidates who were invited, Hillary was a no-show and has questionable civil rights credentials, O'Malley has a major blemish from his time as Mayor of Baltimore:
http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/14/baltimore-cop-activist-slams-omalleys-civil-rights-record/#ixzz3gUZmMukgDemocratic presidential hopeful Martin O’Malley’s credibility is coming under attack from an unexpected source, a long-time friend and African-American civil rights advocate in the Baltimore Police Department.
Sgt. Louis H. Hopson, who has worked at the Baltimore Police Department for 35 years and is a board member of the Vanguard Justice Society, an influential association of Baltimore African-American police officers, charges that O’Malley didn’t know what to do about race relations when he was the city’s mayor from 1999 to 2007. O’Malley was then elected Maryland governor twice.
Whereas Bernie has a stellar record on civil rights:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Bernie_Sanders_Civil_Rights.htm
It makes absolutely NO sense for Bernie to be taking the brunt of the NN/BLM wrath. None.
That said, at the same time I DO think Team Bernie can learn from this, grow from this, to more fully embrace this issue of blacks being gunned down in our streets by out of control cops. Bernie has already been doing this, making sure that's a forceful part of his message, and my hunch and hope is he will survive it and be stronger for it.
I fully support BLM's having a voice, in fact I think they should have their own candidates' forum, a major deal, to focus on their rightful concerns about blacks being targeted, brutalized and shot down by police for no reason, not to mention the incarceration rate of blacks being WAY out of proportion to other ethnic groups.
tea and oranges
(396 posts)Until the killing stops, all the rules of order are suspended. Until people of color aren’t routinely ROUTINELY shot down in the street or otherwise have their breath taken from them forever, what was routinely called rude in the past will become routine. Until those of us who aren’t listening start to listen, what was routine will be disrupted.
White privilege is to be upset that black protestors have the gall to demand they be heard & interrupt OUR candidates, when it’s obvious who the racists are – it’s them over there, not us. White privilege is to discuss the tactics & strategies of black activists, expecting them to know what to do when we don't. What have I done lately to stop police terrorism of entire races of people? HA! Crickets.
Maybe, just maybe, it’s time we listen to black voices. Even if those voices are unruly, unpracticed, angry, rude. They have every right to be! Maybe if we listen & respond honestly, we can together find a way to articulate what needs to be done to overcome what is not only destroying & threatening the lives of each individual poc in the nation, but poisoning the country. Maybe together we can find that land where people speak harmoniously, respectfully, & people don’t routinely die at the hands of police. Until then, I don't see what there is for us white folk to criticize.
Hurrah for BLM! If we manage to save this country, BLM will be a major player. Give them room to grow.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)The most absurd thing about the MM/BLM dustup is that of the three candidates who were invited to NN, Hillary was a no-show and has questionable (Third Way) civil rights credentials, O'Malley has a major blemish from his time as Mayor of Baltimore. The only reason Bernie is being singled out, because HE is the only threat to Hillary right now, and her supporters are gleefully throwing gasoline on the brushfire every-which-way to see if they can they can exploit it to the max, truth be damned.
Bernie has a stellar record on civil rights, he's rated 93% by the ACLU, indicating a pro-civil rights voting record, rated 97% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance, and 100% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance...:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Bernie_Sanders_Civil_Rights.htm
It makes absolutely NO sense for Bernie to be taking the brunt of the NN/BLM wrath. None.
That said, at the same time I DO think Team Bernie can learn from this, grow from this, to more fully embrace this issue of blacks being gunned down in our streets by out of control cops. Bernie has already been doing this, making sure that's a forceful part of his message, and my hunch and hope is he will survive it and be stronger for it.
I fully support BLM's having a voice, in fact I think they should have their own candidates' forum, a major deal, to focus on their rightful concerns about blacks being targeted, brutalized and shot down by police for no reason, not to mention the incarceration rate of blacks being WAY out of proportion to other ethnic groups.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)
corkhead
(6,119 posts)I have have doubts about the sincerity of many of those piling on Bernie specifically while not saying anything about any of the other candidates.
tea and oranges
(396 posts)It makes no sense for BLM to confront Republicans - they don't listen & twist everything. But as you said, Team Bernie can (and will) learn from this.
I know Sanders' record & have for some time, he's an amazing candidate, yet I found myself wondering, watching the dust up, when the last time Bernie, actually spoke w/ black activists, not just the polished & professional people of color in Washington, DC. That he needs to do so is more than obvious.
(I concur, we only need to look back as far as HRC's campaign against BHO to find racism on her part.)
A phrase that's often in my mind is "the politics of resentment." The more reason a group has to be resentful, the more heavily they're policed & cracked down upon. This leads to counter-resentment on the part of the authoritarian ptb & the people they dog-whistle to. This ugly circle keeps the country embroiled in hatred, anger, & fear.
It keeps poc in constant fear for their lives. Any encounter w/ cops can quickly become lethal as we know & have seen demonstrated again & again. BLM wants the legal lynching to stop. If we don't approve of their tactics, too bad. They're in a learning curve, & you know what, so are we!
Let our candidate be challenged now, it will only make him stronger.
BLM having their own forum is an excellent idea!
daybranch
(1,309 posts)We white people are still being exploited by the rich class in America to do horrible things to Black people. The rich exploit our fears and insecurities, turning those who could be seen as different into scapegoats to hide the cause of poverty. We must learn what we have done, and why. At this time the classes can unite to throw off the oppression by the rich. Our own weaknesses allow racism.
The great black historian W.E.B. Du Bois (Black Reconstruction) told us whites in the South after the civil war were becoming slaves themselves. Per Howard Zinn (A Peoples History of the United States), this enslavement was done to serve Northern industrialists and former slave owners who retained the wealth and political power in the South. Weapons used against the people were exploitation of racism and elitism (read Confederate romanticism) to soothe the poor egos of the whites and blind them to the causes of their dire economic circumstances. Both poor We white people must learn what we have done and why or we will be manipulated again to harm Black and other disproportionately poor people.While many of us can be glad our ancestors fought against slavery, there was from the North an organized attack on Blacks, so shameless in its claims and so racist as to justify reduction of the value of Black lives in America. Du Bois refuted these attacks with systematic research leading to his vastly important history book, "Black Reconstruction". We often hear today how women must do so much more to receive acclaim that men get much more easily. Du Bois scholarly works stands on a plateau of professionalism that our most used history books never even attempt and yet outside the black community he is little known.
Many white people, myself included regret white supremacy we engendered by our speech, by names we have used to describe black people, jokes we have made etc.. I am sorry and recognizing that this has happened and continues to happen today requires that we Whites as humans with some semblance of humanity recognize our guilt and work to make things right. But to do this we must like brilliant and brave Du Bois see why such racist division works and who it serves. By accepting our guilt, and our frailty
we White people can join with our black brothers and sisters to throw off the chains of economic oppression that relies on racism for economic gain of our rich. Racism works for the rich. Lenin said religion is the opiate of the people. For many white people, racism is their opiate, blinding them from the economic injustices they face in order to elect politicians who would do the bidding of the rich. Lets recognize that influence of the rich over our government which is abetted by politicians to feed racism division to pit us against members of our own economic class is a weapon we refute. Lets unite and win this fight. Lets please not support another servant of the very rich. Go Bernie!!!
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)campaign of 2008! They reinvented and perfected the Southern Strategy better than KKKarl Rove ever could. They were absolutely despicable in their dog whistle politics!
And DU acts as though they don't even remember this shit! It's baffling to me.
Yes, I have HUGE issues with Bill Clinton's policies! Sure!
But his disrespect of black people in general. His disregard and mistreatment of this president. Absolutely disgusting people!
AND>>>>>>
They are friends with the Bushes! WAR CRIMINALS!!! YES!!!
I take issue with Bernie and I think some of his supporters are condescending creeps, some of them are themselves racists.
However, to assume that the Clintons are better on race is laughable. It's ridiculous! It's downright nonsensical!
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)condescending:
What do you think of the Native Americans in this country and the assault on the culture by races and classes
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)groups have been pitted against each other. We must realize that we are in this fight together rather than pointing the finger.
Not sure where you are going with this line of questioning. Please feel free to elaborate as well.
Thanks and welcome.
lib87
(535 posts)We'll be hearing the 'Bernie & MLK' shouts every time we as Black people criticize Bernie.
At this point, I'm just trying to see which candidate will disappoint me the least regarding the issue of institutional racism in this country.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)there's a lot of that going around
mntleo2
(2,535 posts)...as an activist against it and an long time advocate (over 30 years) I can tell you this young man is speaking the truth ~ he gets it and believe me many LIBERALS did not get what terrible damage Welfare DEFormed we warned would and now as all can see, does cause ~ indeed they were out there with the torches and pitchforks along with the most conservative Repigs. Puleeeze do not even try to defend this elitist prude, she is just another Margaret Thatcher. Shut the hell up trying to defend her record on this, I SAW it and I LIVED it!
It is why in 2008 I could not forgive HRC for all her hatred of the poor where she herself intentionally helped to impose some massive damage upon those who needed support ~ not punitive and ghastly conditions that are being imposed, which indeed, as this young man says, has torn apart families and caused MORE poverty.
Bernie gets it and has been there consistently there for those of us who desperately needed to hear from people who get it ~ along with Paul Wellstone ~ and sorry HRC does *not* cut it.
So yeah believe me as the mother of kids and grandkids and godkids of color with friends of many cultures and faiths, I can tell you we are all feelin' the Bern! I will vote for HRC if I have to ~ but I will be vomiting while I do it. And believe me if I can be a burr under her elitist, clueless saddle if she ever makes it in office, have NO doubt, I will be!
Cat in Seattle
Board member of POWER http://www.mamapower.org
The Clintons have done a huge amount of damage to black people, and the truth on this needs to be spread far and wide.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)We know for a fact that Bernie will do whatever it takes to improve benefits for the disadvantaged, and protect social security from the predatory privatization intentions of the Third Way and GOP.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)
6chars
(3,967 posts)who would be more keenly attuned to race issues.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)staggerleem
(469 posts)Bernie Sanders has been representing the state of Vermont for about 30 years. It therefore follows that, in these early stages of the campaign, the vast majority of his campaign staff is from Vermont. While there are many things Vermont CAN brag about, ethnic diversity is not one of them - the 2010 census showed that over the decade starting in 2000, the non-Hispanic white population of Vermont decreased from about 95% to about 92%. The percentage of Vermont's population that identifies as Black is between 1.5% and 2%.
So, as the campaign progresses, the Sanders campaign is probably going to have to recruit some Black staffers from outside of his state, because I'm pretty sure that the diversity of his campaign staff is ALREADY a larger percentage than the diversity of that state.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)into more diverse regions.
No ... I suspect it was an oversight born of not thinking about diversity (i.e., color-blindness) or over estimating the universality of your message (i.e., again, color-blindness).
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)Then maybe he'll look like he gives a damn about the AA plight?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)to do it. But that's beside the point.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Get from my post.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)what happens.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)staggerleem
(469 posts)When anyone who currently holds a political office starts a campaign for a higher office, they'll generally start with the staff that they already have (that may sound a bit Rumsfeld-y, but it's the truth.) Hiring new staff takes MONEY, and would you care to guess who is running the LEAST well-funded campaign in this election, because he won't accept PAC money? Bernie's staff WILL diversify, but it will take time.
Let me ask you this, 1SBM - who among the candidates running in this election were members of both SNCC and CORE? Who marched with Dr. King? Who was arrested as a subversive for putting up equal rights posters while in college? Who came out of the University of Chicago without drinking the Freedman Free-Trade Kool Aid?
Speaking as one who grew up in the environment of white privilege, it's hard for me to figure out whether this nation's race war is a subset of its class war, or vice-versa. But I do know that an advance on EITHER front usually forwards BOTH agendas. Given that, is little color-blindness that big of a sin?
And, speaking of "more diverse regions", shall we discuss the diversity of the first 2 Caucus/Primary states? Nah, didn't think so ...
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I, also, understand planning for growth.
Frankly, I don't give a good damn about that ... it's a nice historical note that seems to run counter to, or at least points to an evolution to his current economic focus.
Do you really believe that? If so, why are you arguing in favor of fighting the class war; rather, than the race war ... since EITHER forwards BOTH agendas?
Because that is not "color-blindness" ... that is ignoring something that is inconveniently exists.
What?... that the demographics of the 1st 2 Caucus/Primary states are, largely, white? No we can discuss that. And it would be a valid/relevant point ... before the advent of air transport and the telephone. In this 21st century, a candidate hold an event anywhere in the continental US, and be home to watch their performance on the late night news.
staggerleem
(469 posts)What on Earth do you find about the Senator's current positions that run counter to, or display evolution in, his earlier positions? I personally believe that you'd be hard pressed to find ANYONE whose positions have been more consistent over 5 decades than Bernie Sanders.
I'm actually not arguing in favor of either war over the other - both are critical. But I DO know that Dr. King recognized that the policies that held the black man down for so long had essentially the same effect on poor white folk, too. I know that the sanitation union that he was in Memphis to march with when he was murdered had both black and white membership (although, only white guys were allowed in the CAB of the garbage truck). Can you give me an example of a policy that would decrease income inequality for poor whites ONLY, and would not simultaneously improve the black man's lot in life? Like I said, it's possible that my upbringing has given me a blind spot or 2 on this issue.
My only point regarding Iowa & New Hampshire is that the diversity of his staff is unlikely to be a big issue, either way, in either state. So neither of those 2 contests presents him with a pressing reason to diversify. But I'm still pretty sure that the personnel changes you are looking for will happen well in advance of the Iowa Caucus.
Bernie's "current economic focus" is to create the rising tide that lifts all boats. But his OVERALL focus is to create a real, grassroots Progressive movement like this country has never seen before. Because he's not going to be able to do what he wants to get done with a Congress like the one we've got now. If ANY Democrat is going to have a successful Presidency from 2016 - 2024, we're going to have to give him (or her) a Senate and a House that he (or she) can work with. Not like this ship of fools Obama has suffered with.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 22, 2015, 09:21 PM - Edit history (1)
, or display evolution in, his earlier positions?
His focus on economic justice ... granted, he has made (mostly) the correct and supportive votes over the years; but, then again, so have just about all Democrats, certainly all of the Democratic candidates.
Would you please stop re-writing history ... Please. I know the myth being told ... but it does not comport with history. Here is a link to the speech he gave in Memphis in support of the Union.
http://www.afscme.org/union/history/mlk/ive-been-to-the-mountaintop-by-dr-martin-luther-king-jr
Please point to a single line that would suggest that he was there for the white garbage truck drivers or the white haulers; rather than, the 1,300 Black trash haulers ... striking after the deaths of two Black haulers killed because the city rules forbade black employees to seek shelter from rain anywhere but in the back of their compressor trucks, with the garbage.
Hell, point to a single line that even mentions poor white folks!
Sure ... Raising the Minimum wage would decrease income inequality (we are told) for poor whites as a class; but, would still leave poor Black people in the same relative position.
Agreed; but, the problem is ... Black folks have been saying, "That's fine and al good; but, it would be helpful if we had a boat."
I completely, and absolutely, agree.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,173 posts)Totally unproductive and frankly insane.
I would support Bernie (If I were American), and I think Hillary brings a lot of baggage and questionable allies into her campaign, BUT..both are from a party, and are personally, so vastly more aware, proactive, and empathize with the black community and the injustices fostered on them...so much ahead of the Grand Old Party that its laughable (in a stupid way) that we are making a big deal out of this.
It really makes me question if this is some sophisiticated sabotage by KKKarl Rove and his troll minions. Spreading and infecting these unfounded insinuations all over the web. All it takes is a few ill-informed hot heads to stir other ill-informed folks and pretty soon all we are talking about is which candidate is the most racist.
Response to 99th_Monkey (Original post)
Hatchling This message was self-deleted by its author.
Skittles
(153,150 posts)ABSOLUTELY CORRECT