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workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 05:29 AM Sep 2015

Bernie Sanders Applied for 'Conscientious Objector' Status During Vietnam, Campaign Confirms

Bernie Sanders Applied for 'Conscientious Objector' Status During Vietnam, Campaign Confirms
Aug 31, 2015, 1:24 PM ET
By MARYALICE PARKS

Bernie Sanders applied for conscientious objector status during the Vietnam War, his campaign confirmed to ABC News.

"As a college student in the 1960s he was a pacifist," Michael Briggs, campaign spokesman added in an email. "[He] isn't now."

Last week, the Des Moines Register ran a column from a Hillary Clinton supporter and Vietnam veteran, titled, "How can Sanders be commander in chief?"

"My question as a Vietnam veteran is: How on earth could a person claiming to be a conscientious objector become the commander in chief of the most powerful military in the world?" questioned the column author Steve Wikert.


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-applied-conscientious-objector-status-vietnam-campaign/story?id=33434041&google_editors_picks=true
83 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie Sanders Applied for 'Conscientious Objector' Status During Vietnam, Campaign Confirms (Original Post) workinclasszero Sep 2015 OP
This is news? Did someone try to deny that he applied for CO status? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #1
"Thanks for the positive Bernie thread!" ybbor Sep 2015 #23
Yeah, it's not going exactly as planned. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #26
The same way someone who did this became commander in chief jfern Sep 2015 #2
better a CO than AWOL eShirl Sep 2015 #3
Well yeah, Sanders certainly avoided Vietnam in a more honest manner jfern Sep 2015 #4
Not to mention Dick Cheney or Ted Nugent bigbrother05 Sep 2015 #27
There is a huge difference between -- Hell Hath No Fury Sep 2015 #73
Hey I was in Viet Nam Tommy2Tone Sep 2015 #76
Conscientious objector is a statement of I don't want to kill anyone sarge43 Sep 2015 #78
But Clinton and Bush avoided in much more dishonest fashion jfern Sep 2015 #83
It would have been nice if Hillary had been a "War Objector" when we needed her virtualobserver Sep 2015 #5
Veterans know who has their back. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #11
Yes the vote on AUMF only one nay vote and her name is Barbara Lee. Thinkingabout Sep 2015 #64
I have great respect for Barbara Lee, but that one I would have voted for..... virtualobserver Sep 2015 #65
What are you talking about? Stardust Sep 2015 #75
Authorization for Use of Military Force September 14, 2001 virtualobserver Sep 2015 #82
Wow! Imagine a President promoting Peace?! tecelote Sep 2015 #6
Military experience hasn't helped in the last few elections jfern Sep 2015 #7
'Blah Blah, he's not a warmonger or willing to engage in war' blah blah JackInGreen Sep 2015 #8
What's better? freedom fighter jh Sep 2015 #9
If I were Bernie Sanders, draa Sep 2015 #10
seems your post of a hit piece Duckhunter935 Sep 2015 #12
Why would we want a president who was willing to fight in an immoral war? Vattel Sep 2015 #13
As a Viet Nam veteran, I say good for Bernie!!! Scuba Sep 2015 #14
good on ya, Bernie! dorkzilla Sep 2015 #15
Know what this tells me about Bernie? neverforget Sep 2015 #16
How can a conscientious objector command the armed forces? sarge43 Sep 2015 #17
So, do you like Trump better than Bernie by not talking about his "recent news"? cascadiance Sep 2015 #18
Good for him 4dsc Sep 2015 #19
History shows that Bernie was right once again. Thanks for the pro-Bernie post, it means A Simple Game Sep 2015 #20
Oh no!!!!! Good Judgment rears it's ugly head again!!!!!! Indepatriot Sep 2015 #21
A socialist old guy with a co...GOP will have a field day dembotoz Sep 2015 #22
Knowing this, I'm sure they'll be more than enthusiastic to pull the lever for Clinton. frylock Sep 2015 #72
So what. LittleGirl Sep 2015 #24
Bernie was right then and he right now. VV sister. lonestarnot Sep 2015 #25
This veteran doesn't have the slightest problem with it. cherokeeprogressive Sep 2015 #28
As a CO, didn't he have to do some kind of alternative service? deutsey Sep 2015 #29
My brother was a CO. This isn't a negative, it's a positive. Vinca Sep 2015 #30
He sure did. LWolf Sep 2015 #31
Why didn't Hillary serve in Vietnam? striegl Sep 2015 #32
Well, by '69 when she got her bachelors, the phase down was starting sarge43 Sep 2015 #34
She was 17 in 1965. SonderWoman Sep 2015 #36
Her birthday is Oct 26, 1947 sarge43 Sep 2015 #37
Wasn't she in college that September? SonderWoman Sep 2015 #43
Don't know, probably. sarge43 Sep 2015 #51
Hillary tried enlisting in Marines in 1975. SonderWoman Sep 2015 #35
Do you have a cite for that? sarge43 Sep 2015 #39
She once said she wanted to join but there's no proof that it ever happened. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #40
She was turned down due to age (27) and eyesight. SonderWoman Sep 2015 #41
There's no record of that. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #42
Where's Bernie's record? SonderWoman Sep 2015 #44
He was a CO, read the op. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #45
According to what record? SonderWoman Sep 2015 #46
What part of the record do you claim is false? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #47
"There's no record of that". SonderWoman Sep 2015 #48
LOL! Nice try but I have no interest in proving or disproving that claim. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #49
So Bernie dodged the draft but voted for war? SonderWoman Sep 2015 #52
No. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #55
Article says he voted yes on Afghan War. SonderWoman Sep 2015 #57
You didn't ask two separate questions. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #58
Age for a non line commission could be and was waived all the time sarge43 Sep 2015 #66
"....she could have." sarge43 Sep 2015 #50
Why would she join when she was marrying Bill? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #54
Someone's been reading rightwing websites! SonderWoman Sep 2015 #59
The NYT is a "rightwing" website? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #61
Relax sarge43 Sep 2015 #68
That's where it always ends. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #70
Um, no. I posted a channel 4 nbc news report, and... SonderWoman Sep 2015 #74
I'm not going to imply she's blowing smoke sarge43 Sep 2015 #62
I hear you. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #63
Back atcha. sarge43 Sep 2015 #67
Ooh rah! beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #69
Zoom, zoom! sarge43 Sep 2015 #71
She was battle tested in Bosnia... Indepatriot Sep 2015 #79
Lol! beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #80
FAIL. Ikonoklast Sep 2015 #33
Good for him! Faux pas Sep 2015 #38
My hero was deprived of his boxing prime... DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2015 #53
OPs like this are a measure of the brainwashing of the ... Smarmie Doofus Sep 2015 #56
Damn that man. A pacifist against the Vietnam war?? Autumn Sep 2015 #60
Well, I Married My Husband To Keep Him From Getting Drafted! ChiciB1 Sep 2015 #77
Well this is really gonna matter to, like, 4 or 5 voters. Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #81

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
1. This is news? Did someone try to deny that he applied for CO status?
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 05:38 AM
Sep 2015

I notice you left out the best part of the article, let me help you out:

Sanders's political and anti-war activism in the 1960s and '70s has been well-documented. While at the University of Chicago, he was a member of several progressive peace organizations, including the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and the Student Peace Union.

As a congressman and later senator, Sanders has rarely voted to authorize the use of force.

In 1991, he stood in opposition to the first Gulf War, voting against military involvement in the country even after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. "I think we could've gotten Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait in a way that did not require a war," he told ABC's Martha Raddatz Sunday on "This Week," arguing that with the world in agreement, other options were available, including sanctions.

...

On the campaign trail, Sanders does talk about his work on the Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs and what he sees as the long-term, human cost of war.

"The cost of war is great, and it is far more than the hundreds of billions of dollars we spend on planes, tanks, missiles and guns," Sanders wrote in an opinion piece in the Boston Globe last summer. "The cost of war is more than 6,800 service members who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. The cost of war is caring for the spouses and children who have to rebuild their lives after the loss of their loved ones. It's about hundreds of thousands of men and women coming home from war with post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, many of them having difficulty keeping jobs in order to pay their bills. It's about high divorce rates. It's about the terrible tragedy of veterans committing suicide," he wrote.


Thanks for the positive Bernie thread!



ybbor

(1,554 posts)
23. "Thanks for the positive Bernie thread!"
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 07:55 AM
Sep 2015

That's what I was thinking. Again, a sign that his convictions have not change over time.

Still feeling the Bern!

jfern

(5,204 posts)
2. The same way someone who did this became commander in chief
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 05:39 AM
Sep 2015
That Bill Clinton went to great lengths to avoid the Vietnam-era draft, that he used political connections to obtain special favors, and that he made promises and commitments which he later failed to honor, are all beyond dispute.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/felon.asp#VAlP8tzrZ6l3iMwU.99

jfern

(5,204 posts)
4. Well yeah, Sanders certainly avoided Vietnam in a more honest manner
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 05:55 AM
Sep 2015

than Bill Clinton or Bush did.

 

Hell Hath No Fury

(16,327 posts)
73. There is a huge difference between --
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 01:12 PM
Sep 2015

"avoiding" the war and refusing to participate in it for moral reasons. I hope you realize that.

Tommy2Tone

(1,307 posts)
76. Hey I was in Viet Nam
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 01:57 PM
Sep 2015

Conscientious objector was code for I am afraid to die. I have as much respect for him as those who ran away to hide in Canada.

I was against the war but when called I answered.

Now to complete his hypocrisy he declares he is no longer a pacifist.

sarge43

(28,940 posts)
78. Conscientious objector is a statement of I don't want to kill anyone
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 02:35 PM
Sep 2015

Desmond Doss, Thomas W. Bennett and Joseph G. LaPointe, all COs and Medal of Honor recipients. Bennett and LaPointe served in Vietnam.

Then there's the Friend's Ambulance Service record in two world wars.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
83. But Clinton and Bush avoided in much more dishonest fashion
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 05:22 PM
Sep 2015

And we're talking over 40 years, so how does that make him a hypocrite?

 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
5. It would have been nice if Hillary had been a "War Objector" when we needed her
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 05:58 AM
Sep 2015

maybe the soldiers of a new generation can spare a few arms and legs and lives.

The Vietnam and Iraq wars accomplished so much, didn't they?


How could anyone with a "conscience" have "objected" to those wars?


https://www.vfw.org/News-and-Events/Articles/2015-Articles/Ending-Sequestration-Again-Tops-VFW-Legislative-Agenda/

VETERAN CHAMPION BERNIE SANDERS TO RECEIVE VFW CONGRESSIONAL AWARD

“With eight years on the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee — two of them as chairman — it is no understatement to say that Senator Sanders has taken care of wounded, ill and injured veterans and their surviving family members,” said Stroud. “He has been a commanding voice against changing the COLA calculations for disabled veterans, for the proper care and treatment of women veterans, homeless veterans, for better employment opportunities and improved access to mental health programs, as well as increased congressional oversight of the VA claims processing transformation,” he said.

“And when the VA imploded last year, he was the lead negotiator for the Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act, which the president signed into law last summer,” said the VFW national commander. “The VA still has an uphill climb to fix what’s broken, to hold employees appropriately accountable, and to restore the faith of veterans in their VA, but veterans everywhere should be proud and comforted to know that this United States senator has their back in Congress.
 

virtualobserver

(8,760 posts)
82. Authorization for Use of Military Force September 14, 2001
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 05:06 PM
Sep 2015

The Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), Pub. L. 107-40, codified at 115 Stat. 224 and passed as S.J.Res. 23 by the United States Congress on September 14, 2001, authorizes the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the attacks on September 11, 2001.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
6. Wow! Imagine a President promoting Peace?!
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 06:06 AM
Sep 2015

Peace has become a dirty word in America.

We all know why... where's the profit?

jfern

(5,204 posts)
7. Military experience hasn't helped in the last few elections
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 06:12 AM
Sep 2015

1992: Guy who pulled some strings to get out of 'Nam defeats WW2 vet
1996: Same deal, different WW2 vet.
2000: Well Gore really won, but the guy who specifically avoided 'Nam and didn't fulfill his service requirements became President instead of Gore who served in 'Nam
2004: Same deal, and Kerry was swiftboated despite being a war hero
2008: Someone with no military experience beat someone stuck in 'Nam for years as a POW
2012: Neither candidate had military experience

JackInGreen

(2,975 posts)
8. 'Blah Blah, he's not a warmonger or willing to engage in war' blah blah
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 06:23 AM
Sep 2015

he's such a bad person blahblah, couldn't ever work with the military because he's a no good peacenik, etc etc etc.
Good gods, ya'll are reaching.

Please, hate on Mohamed Ali next.

freedom fighter jh

(1,782 posts)
9. What's better?
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 06:33 AM
Sep 2015

To have someone pro-war in charge of the military, or to have someone who will make war an option of last resort?

Peace is a good thing. Let's elect someone who will work for it.

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
12. seems your post of a hit piece
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 06:42 AM
Sep 2015

did not work the way you wanted, lol. I would much rather have him then some hawk like Hillary.

dorkzilla

(5,141 posts)
15. good on ya, Bernie!
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 07:01 AM
Sep 2015

A man who talks the talk and walks the walk! What a welcomed difference! What a refreshing change!

Go Bernie!

neverforget

(9,436 posts)
16. Know what this tells me about Bernie?
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 07:01 AM
Sep 2015

He doesn't like war and thinks war should be the last resort. Good for him!

sarge43

(28,940 posts)
17. How can a conscientious objector command the armed forces?
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 07:05 AM
Sep 2015

Maybe we'll find out. I'm sure Senator Sanders isn't into the fantasy that war is a freaking video game where you can punch the Esc button with no consequences.

Wikert, you served in that war and you don't believe that it wasn't either a joke or tragedy? Quite a selective memory you have there.

I just wish a lot more men had been COs.

 

cascadiance

(19,537 posts)
18. So, do you like Trump better than Bernie by not talking about his "recent news"?
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 07:19 AM
Sep 2015

Trump's "recent acknowledgement" of four deferments from the Vietnam War for being in school, and at the end getting a medical release for having "bone spurs" in his foot, but conveniently the records of this have been purged.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/questions-linger-about-trumps-draft-deferments-during-vietnam-war/2015/07/21/257677bc-2fdd-11e5-8353-1215475949f4_story.html

Why aren't you want to publish a story like this about the leading GOP candidate and focus on Bernie Sanders' being a conscientious objector, which no one has shown that he's consciously tried to hide, and many would feel as noted here that there's not a reason he should hide, since its consistent with his political positions of going to war as a last resort, instead of the first option that so many chicken hawks that use these "deferments" to get out of serving in Vietnam.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
20. History shows that Bernie was right once again. Thanks for the pro-Bernie post, it means
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 07:30 AM
Sep 2015

a lot coming from someone with a big H in their post. Good for you. It appears you realize that one of the best qualifications for Commander in Chief is good judgement and right you are.

Anyone that thinks the Vietnam war was the right thing to do probably thinks the Iraq war was also justified, Bernie knew best on both accounts.

 

Indepatriot

(1,253 posts)
21. Oh no!!!!! Good Judgment rears it's ugly head again!!!!!!
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 07:38 AM
Sep 2015

Now all the nationalistic fear-motivated voters (who will no doubt be BIG Hillary supporters..... ) will reject him!!!! Dammmit !....I'm still waiting on my Obama pony and now this?!!!!!!

dembotoz

(16,785 posts)
22. A socialist old guy with a co...GOP will have a field day
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 07:54 AM
Sep 2015

Remain very concerned per Sanders electibility.
Live in a red area and his duck won't fly

LittleGirl

(8,279 posts)
24. So what.
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 07:57 AM
Sep 2015

War is hell and hell is war. If you want to see what happens to countries that are buried in war, look at the immigration problems in Europe. 71 people suffocated last week being left behind for trying to run from those wars. Honestly, Sanders being a CO is one of the best things that could happen to this country. Enough is Enough.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
29. As a CO, didn't he have to do some kind of alternative service?
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 08:20 AM
Sep 2015

That's more than those who went AWOL or got several deferments did.

In any event, good for Bernie.

What Mr. Wikert, as a veteran, might also want to ask is: "Who among the presidential candidates has a better record than Sanders in representing veterans' interest in Congress?"

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
31. He sure did.
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 08:25 AM
Sep 2015

As was discussed in thorough detail, just in the last week right here on DU. Including the fact that his application was denied.

One thread was hidden. The rest, including one just yesterday wasn't. Here are just a couple:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141194021

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251550540

But if that's all you've got...go for it, and see how far it gets you.

When all else fails, keep repeating failed attacks.




sarge43

(28,940 posts)
34. Well, by '69 when she got her bachelors, the phase down was starting
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 09:03 AM
Sep 2015

However, could have signed up. We could have used the help. She could have enlisted in '65. She even could have volunteered for Vietnam duty, depending upon which branch she selected.

Unless a woman is in her late '90's, if war is a good thing, then step up, honey or shut up.

sarge43

(28,940 posts)
51. Don't know, probably.
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 10:12 AM
Sep 2015

Just saying she was eligible to enlist on her 18th birthday. For a commission she needed a bach degree.

sarge43

(28,940 posts)
39. Do you have a cite for that?
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 09:41 AM
Sep 2015

Back in the Neolithic I read an article in the NYT (no, I don't have the cite) that said she tried to join the Army Nat Guard.

I'm not doubting her word. Our media is less than careful, let alone knowledgeable, about military terminology. It still has difficulty telling a soldier from a marine. Ranks and duty titles -

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
40. She once said she wanted to join but there's no proof that it ever happened.
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 09:48 AM
Sep 2015

If she wanted to join the military she could have.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
47. What part of the record do you claim is false?
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 10:04 AM
Sep 2015

From the op:

Sanders's political and anti-war activism in the 1960s and '70s has been well-documented. While at the University of Chicago, he was a member of several progressive peace organizations, including the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and the Student Peace Union.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
49. LOL! Nice try but I have no interest in proving or disproving that claim.
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 10:08 AM
Sep 2015

You on the other hand are trying to tell everyone that Hillary was rejected by the Marine Corps.

Can you prove it or not?

sarge43

(28,940 posts)
66. Age for a non line commission could be and was waived all the time
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 10:42 AM
Sep 2015

Unless applicant needed a white cane, again for non line commission (legal, medical, chaplain) could/was waived.

sarge43

(28,940 posts)
50. "....she could have."
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 10:10 AM
Sep 2015

Not necessarily. Until mid '70's women were capped at 2% of the active duty force. With the combat restriction, there were always more women applying than there were slots available.

In '62 my recruiter told me that for every 10 women applicants for the AF, only one was accepted.

So, I'll put this one in the "Insufficient data" file.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
54. Why would she join when she was marrying Bill?
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 10:15 AM
Sep 2015

I find the timing questionable along with the fact that she only mentioned it once when she was talking to women vets.

Hillary tries to be many things to many people.


 

SonderWoman

(1,169 posts)
74. Um, no. I posted a channel 4 nbc news report, and...
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 01:18 PM
Sep 2015

No one called Bernie a pedophile. You seem to enjoy lying and stretching the truth.

sarge43

(28,940 posts)
62. I'm not going to imply she's blowing smoke
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 10:31 AM
Sep 2015

Last edited Tue Sep 1, 2015, 11:11 AM - Edit history (1)

I may be voting for her in 14 months. That said,

this retired Personnel puke does know the armed forces always needed lawyers. A tad hard to believe any of the branches would have turned her down.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
33. FAIL.
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 08:31 AM
Sep 2015

The stink of desperation coming from the Hillary camp is befouling this place.

Just like birtherism and "Barack HUSSEIN Obama" came from Hillary supporters and the candidate sat back and said nothing.


What next, did you just find out Bernie Sanders is a dirty Joo?




DemocratSinceBirth

(99,708 posts)
53. My hero was deprived of his boxing prime...
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 10:15 AM
Sep 2015

My hero was stripped of his heavyweight championship, deprived of his athletic prime when he couldn't get a boxing license for three and one half years , and faced five years in prison for refusing to be inducted into the Viet Nam War when his conscientious objector claim was rejected by a federal court before being reversed on appeal by the United States Supreme Court. But here's the rub. Conscientious objector status doesn't mean a person opposes wars he or she feels is unwise or immoral but all wars.

 

Smarmie Doofus

(14,498 posts)
56. OPs like this are a measure of the brainwashing of the ...
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 10:19 AM
Sep 2015

... post VN generation(s) by the media and the school system.

Wow. They did a pretty thorough fucking job!

Quick reading suggestions: Lies My Teacher Told Me ( can't remember the author off the top) and of course Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States".

They'll get you up to speed in a hurry.

Whoa. This OP is scary stuff.

Autumn

(44,980 posts)
60. Damn that man. A pacifist against the Vietnam war??
Tue Sep 1, 2015, 10:28 AM
Sep 2015

Why does Bernie always do the right thing?? Why?????? I'm beginning to suspect he is a time traveler, he goes back in time to do the right thing. Every time.




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