2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders Applied for 'Conscientious Objector' Status During Vietnam, Campaign Confirms
Bernie Sanders Applied for 'Conscientious Objector' Status During Vietnam, Campaign ConfirmsAug 31, 2015, 1:24 PM ET
By MARYALICE PARKS
Bernie Sanders applied for conscientious objector status during the Vietnam War, his campaign confirmed to ABC News.
"As a college student in the 1960s he was a pacifist," Michael Briggs, campaign spokesman added in an email. "[He] isn't now."
Last week, the Des Moines Register ran a column from a Hillary Clinton supporter and Vietnam veteran, titled, "How can Sanders be commander in chief?"
"My question as a Vietnam veteran is: How on earth could a person claiming to be a conscientious objector become the commander in chief of the most powerful military in the world?" questioned the column author Steve Wikert.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-applied-conscientious-objector-status-vietnam-campaign/story?id=33434041&google_editors_picks=true
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I notice you left out the best part of the article, let me help you out:
As a congressman and later senator, Sanders has rarely voted to authorize the use of force.
In 1991, he stood in opposition to the first Gulf War, voting against military involvement in the country even after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. "I think we could've gotten Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait in a way that did not require a war," he told ABC's Martha Raddatz Sunday on "This Week," arguing that with the world in agreement, other options were available, including sanctions.
...
On the campaign trail, Sanders does talk about his work on the Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs and what he sees as the long-term, human cost of war.
"The cost of war is great, and it is far more than the hundreds of billions of dollars we spend on planes, tanks, missiles and guns," Sanders wrote in an opinion piece in the Boston Globe last summer. "The cost of war is more than 6,800 service members who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. The cost of war is caring for the spouses and children who have to rebuild their lives after the loss of their loved ones. It's about hundreds of thousands of men and women coming home from war with post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, many of them having difficulty keeping jobs in order to pay their bills. It's about high divorce rates. It's about the terrible tragedy of veterans committing suicide," he wrote.
Thanks for the positive Bernie thread!
ybbor
(1,554 posts)That's what I was thinking. Again, a sign that his convictions have not change over time.
Still feeling the Bern!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Still Berning down the house!
jfern
(5,204 posts)That Bill Clinton went to great lengths to avoid the Vietnam-era draft, that he used political connections to obtain special favors, and that he made promises and commitments which he later failed to honor, are all beyond dispute.http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/felon.asp#VAlP8tzrZ6l3iMwU.99
eShirl
(18,479 posts)-coughDUBYAcough-
jfern
(5,204 posts)than Bill Clinton or Bush did.
bigbrother05
(5,995 posts)Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)"avoiding" the war and refusing to participate in it for moral reasons. I hope you realize that.
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)Conscientious objector was code for I am afraid to die. I have as much respect for him as those who ran away to hide in Canada.
I was against the war but when called I answered.
Now to complete his hypocrisy he declares he is no longer a pacifist.
sarge43
(28,940 posts)Desmond Doss, Thomas W. Bennett and Joseph G. LaPointe, all COs and Medal of Honor recipients. Bennett and LaPointe served in Vietnam.
Then there's the Friend's Ambulance Service record in two world wars.
jfern
(5,204 posts)And we're talking over 40 years, so how does that make him a hypocrite?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)maybe the soldiers of a new generation can spare a few arms and legs and lives.
The Vietnam and Iraq wars accomplished so much, didn't they?
How could anyone with a "conscience" have "objected" to those wars?
https://www.vfw.org/News-and-Events/Articles/2015-Articles/Ending-Sequestration-Again-Tops-VFW-Legislative-Agenda/
With eight years on the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee two of them as chairman it is no understatement to say that Senator Sanders has taken care of wounded, ill and injured veterans and their surviving family members, said Stroud. He has been a commanding voice against changing the COLA calculations for disabled veterans, for the proper care and treatment of women veterans, homeless veterans, for better employment opportunities and improved access to mental health programs, as well as increased congressional oversight of the VA claims processing transformation, he said.
And when the VA imploded last year, he was the lead negotiator for the Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act, which the president signed into law last summer, said the VFW national commander. The VA still has an uphill climb to fix whats broken, to hold employees appropriately accountable, and to restore the faith of veterans in their VA, but veterans everywhere should be proud and comforted to know that this United States senator has their back in Congress.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)we were attacked.....
Stardust
(3,894 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)The Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), Pub. L. 107-40, codified at 115 Stat. 224 and passed as S.J.Res. 23 by the United States Congress on September 14, 2001, authorizes the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the attacks on September 11, 2001.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)Peace has become a dirty word in America.
We all know why... where's the profit?
jfern
(5,204 posts)1992: Guy who pulled some strings to get out of 'Nam defeats WW2 vet
1996: Same deal, different WW2 vet.
2000: Well Gore really won, but the guy who specifically avoided 'Nam and didn't fulfill his service requirements became President instead of Gore who served in 'Nam
2004: Same deal, and Kerry was swiftboated despite being a war hero
2008: Someone with no military experience beat someone stuck in 'Nam for years as a POW
2012: Neither candidate had military experience
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)he's such a bad person blahblah, couldn't ever work with the military because he's a no good peacenik, etc etc etc.
Good gods, ya'll are reaching.
Please, hate on Mohamed Ali next.
freedom fighter jh
(1,782 posts)To have someone pro-war in charge of the military, or to have someone who will make war an option of last resort?
Peace is a good thing. Let's elect someone who will work for it.
draa
(975 posts)I'd wear it as a badge of honor. Good for him.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)did not work the way you wanted, lol. I would much rather have him then some hawk like Hillary.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)A man who talks the talk and walks the walk! What a welcomed difference! What a refreshing change!
Go Bernie!
neverforget
(9,436 posts)He doesn't like war and thinks war should be the last resort. Good for him!
sarge43
(28,940 posts)Maybe we'll find out. I'm sure Senator Sanders isn't into the fantasy that war is a freaking video game where you can punch the Esc button with no consequences.
Wikert, you served in that war and you don't believe that it wasn't either a joke or tragedy? Quite a selective memory you have there.
I just wish a lot more men had been COs.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Trump's "recent acknowledgement" of four deferments from the Vietnam War for being in school, and at the end getting a medical release for having "bone spurs" in his foot, but conveniently the records of this have been purged.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/questions-linger-about-trumps-draft-deferments-during-vietnam-war/2015/07/21/257677bc-2fdd-11e5-8353-1215475949f4_story.html
Why aren't you want to publish a story like this about the leading GOP candidate and focus on Bernie Sanders' being a conscientious objector, which no one has shown that he's consciously tried to hide, and many would feel as noted here that there's not a reason he should hide, since its consistent with his political positions of going to war as a last resort, instead of the first option that so many chicken hawks that use these "deferments" to get out of serving in Vietnam.
4dsc
(5,787 posts)EOM
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)a lot coming from someone with a big H in their post. Good for you. It appears you realize that one of the best qualifications for Commander in Chief is good judgement and right you are.
Anyone that thinks the Vietnam war was the right thing to do probably thinks the Iraq war was also justified, Bernie knew best on both accounts.
Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)Now all the nationalistic fear-motivated voters (who will no doubt be BIG Hillary supporters..... ) will reject him!!!! Dammmit !....I'm still waiting on my Obama pony and now this?!!!!!!
dembotoz
(16,785 posts)Remain very concerned per Sanders electibility.
Live in a red area and his duck won't fly
frylock
(34,825 posts)LittleGirl
(8,279 posts)War is hell and hell is war. If you want to see what happens to countries that are buried in war, look at the immigration problems in Europe. 71 people suffocated last week being left behind for trying to run from those wars. Honestly, Sanders being a CO is one of the best things that could happen to this country. Enough is Enough.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)deutsey
(20,166 posts)That's more than those who went AWOL or got several deferments did.
In any event, good for Bernie.
What Mr. Wikert, as a veteran, might also want to ask is: "Who among the presidential candidates has a better record than Sanders in representing veterans' interest in Congress?"
Vinca
(50,236 posts)Enough with warmonger presidents.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)As was discussed in thorough detail, just in the last week right here on DU. Including the fact that his application was denied.
One thread was hidden. The rest, including one just yesterday wasn't. Here are just a couple:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141194021
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251550540
But if that's all you've got...go for it, and see how far it gets you.
When all else fails, keep repeating failed attacks.
striegl
(18 posts)A legitimate question since many women volunteered to go there.
http://www.history.com/topics/vietnam-war/women-in-the-vietnam-war
sarge43
(28,940 posts)However, could have signed up. We could have used the help. She could have enlisted in '65. She even could have volunteered for Vietnam duty, depending upon which branch she selected.
Unless a woman is in her late '90's, if war is a good thing, then step up, honey or shut up.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)sarge43
(28,940 posts)She could have enlisted 26 Oct 65.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)sarge43
(28,940 posts)Just saying she was eligible to enlist on her 18th birthday. For a commission she needed a bach degree.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)But was turned down.
sarge43
(28,940 posts)Back in the Neolithic I read an article in the NYT (no, I don't have the cite) that said she tried to join the Army Nat Guard.
I'm not doubting her word. Our media is less than careful, let alone knowledgeable, about military terminology. It still has difficulty telling a soldier from a marine. Ranks and duty titles -
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)If she wanted to join the military she could have.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)From the op:
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)Your quote.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You on the other hand are trying to tell everyone that Hillary was rejected by the Marine Corps.
Can you prove it or not?
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)sarge43
(28,940 posts)Unless applicant needed a white cane, again for non line commission (legal, medical, chaplain) could/was waived.
sarge43
(28,940 posts)Not necessarily. Until mid '70's women were capped at 2% of the active duty force. With the combat restriction, there were always more women applying than there were slots available.
In '62 my recruiter told me that for every 10 women applicants for the AF, only one was accepted.
So, I'll put this one in the "Insufficient data" file.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I find the timing questionable along with the fact that she only mentioned it once when she was talking to women vets.
Hillary tries to be many things to many people.
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)Enjoy!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And that's really rich coming from someone who posted an old Republican ad calling Bernie a pedophile.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251549982
sarge43
(28,940 posts)We're at the run out of argument, go to insults phase.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)No one called Bernie a pedophile. You seem to enjoy lying and stretching the truth.
sarge43
(28,940 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 1, 2015, 11:11 AM - Edit history (1)
I may be voting for her in 14 months. That said,
this retired Personnel puke does know the armed forces always needed lawyers. A tad hard to believe any of the branches would have turned her down.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)As a former lady Jarhead I get a little bristly whenever I hear that claim.
sarge43
(28,940 posts)Sempre Fi.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)sarge43
(28,940 posts)Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)Remember?......
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I forgot about that!
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)The stink of desperation coming from the Hillary camp is befouling this place.
Just like birtherism and "Barack HUSSEIN Obama" came from Hillary supporters and the candidate sat back and said nothing.
What next, did you just find out Bernie Sanders is a dirty Joo?
Faux pas
(14,644 posts)He wasn't the only one.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)My hero was stripped of his heavyweight championship, deprived of his athletic prime when he couldn't get a boxing license for three and one half years , and faced five years in prison for refusing to be inducted into the Viet Nam War when his conscientious objector claim was rejected by a federal court before being reversed on appeal by the United States Supreme Court. But here's the rub. Conscientious objector status doesn't mean a person opposes wars he or she feels is unwise or immoral but all wars.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)... post VN generation(s) by the media and the school system.
Wow. They did a pretty thorough fucking job!
Quick reading suggestions: Lies My Teacher Told Me ( can't remember the author off the top) and of course Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States".
They'll get you up to speed in a hurry.
Whoa. This OP is scary stuff.
Autumn
(44,980 posts)Why does Bernie always do the right thing?? Why?????? I'm beginning to suspect he is a time traveler, he goes back in time to do the right thing. Every time.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)And we were Army Brats! Shame on ME!
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Possibly.