2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumPre-emptive: Sanders doesn't have a problem with LGBTers
Since the man's social justice bona fides are being turned into a weakness by surrogates, and we've been treated to his vast problems with African Americans, women, and now Latinos, I just wanted to get out in front before you see someone like Joe Solmonese on TV telling everyone that Bernie Sanders doesn't care enough about LGBT people.
Bernie Sanders is one of the finest politicians in American history when it comes to LGBT rights. His opponents cannot even compare themselves or their records with a straight face.
So before we experience yet another part of the Democratic coalition divided up as a weapon instead of a valued community, I just wanted to note that Sanders will never have a problem with the LGBT community.
We owe him a lot of gratitude for sticking up for us when it was not the easy or popular thing to do.
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beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You just know it's coming.
Prism
(5,815 posts)Is which partisan hack they're going to trot out as the Representative of the Entire Community to explain it all to us peons.
Fortunately, the LGBT partisan establishment shot itself in the foot so hard during Obama's first term, no one in the community gives a damn what they think.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Many people who despise Republicans when they use minorities and women to attack their own are blind to it when it's done by Democratic surrogates.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Problem is ... how do you draw the distinction between that Democrat of Color or that Democratic woman being a "Democratic Surrogate" or them just being Democrat of Color or that Democratic woman, speaking their mind? With republicans, it's pretty easy ... and I guess for some, (and particularly, non-Democrats of Color and non-Democratic women) its, also, easy ... they merely have to say something you don't like.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Anyone who is truly concerned about the issues wouldn't lie or endorse a lie because it helps their candidate of choice.
Imo, of course.
ymmv
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Disagreeing with a statement, doesn't make that statement a lie ... and if you have to rely on parsing of, or your interpretation of what that statement "implied" ... it's a pretty good sign that it is a disagreement; rather than, a lie.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You're funny.
Love the quotes around the word lies.
Nice touch.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)And when it's based on hyping up a mishap or logistical shortcoming to become a "major problem with (fill in the blank)" or a "concern."
"Gee, I live in a region that has a lot of people of Polish and Italian decent. Sanders hasn't come here yet. He doesn't care about Polish or Italian Americans."
Or "He hasn't spoken up about Italians or Polish Americans yet. He must have a problem with us."
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I guess I do ...
But tell me, when did Houston and Dallas move? 
Though I suppose the statement that Castro has never met Bernie might be a lie ... Castro probably has run across Bernie during Castro's time in Congress ... it's not that big a place.
Gothmog
(145,130 posts)He saw no Hispanics at that event which was 90+% white. The fact that consider that event to be outreach to Hispanic voters is really silly and funny. I heard about this event through my temple (I am Jewish) and most of the other people who I know who attended this event were Jewish (according to my associate who attended there was a good Jewish turnout). You have a very different concept of lie that I do and your claim is simply wrong. If this event was meant to be outreach to the Hispanic community, the Sanders campaign may want to notify that community about the event instead relying on the narrow base of supporters.
The fact that you are taking offense at this is really weak in my book. However that thread and another thread did cause me to accelerate my donations to the Clinton campaign and I attended an event this morning where I met Amanada Renteria who is a the Chief of Staff for the Clinton campaign.http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/clintons-political-director-amanda-renteria-latina-first-n342256 Amanda is the highest ranking Hispanic in a major political campaign and she is a very impressive woman. The Clinton campaign was very well organized for this event
If Sanders wants to make inroads with the Hispanic community, he may need to expand his staff (to the extent that he has a staff) to reach out to these groups
Armstead
(47,803 posts)And yes that comparison was ridiculous. intentionally so. As ridiculous as some of the crap that gets tossed around.
But I won't respond to you anymore if you prefer not to actually be presented with contrary views.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Well, no more than, anyone one else ... I do, however, think more of you, than that comparison you presented.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)If you don't feed them they go away.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Let's hope everyone else sees it too.
It's unfair to Prism.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Well ... that's certainly a way to view the voices of African-Americans, Women and Hispanics.
Prism
(5,815 posts)And I'm tired of people pretending Sanders doesn't have a far longer and deeper record of support in words and deeds in social justice matters.
Other people may pretend as they will as it suits them.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)that record of support is, and has been, acknowledged ... and so what?
The issue is NOT what he has DONE; but rather, what he intends to DO. The issue is economic primacy does not resonate among majorities within Communities of Color; because we/they prioritize social justice over the economic primacy that, until recently, had been the near exclusive focus of his campaign.
By way of (imperfect) analogy: Repeatedly offering a person dying of thirst a sandwich does not address that person's thirst, even after that person is reminded of someone's record of providing water.
Prism
(5,815 posts)He needs to be very clear about what he intends to do as President to aid vulnerable communities. He has about five months to persuade them that he has the best ideas. If he fails in that, he will certainly lose the nomination. No Democratic politician can capture the nomination without inspiring the African American community to come out and vote for them.
But this whole, "Bernie Sanders doesn't care about X community," approach of the last several months is horseshit. His record betrays that for the filthy, stupid lie it is. I'm tired of reading it. And I'm tired of the deeply dishonest people pushing it for pure partisanship.
His record obviously reflects that he cares. Has he not articulated what he intends to do as well as he ought? No. Has he erred in choosing economic issues as his go-to? Probably. But the meme that he doesn't care, that he's only interested in white liberals? Bull. His record reveals the dishonesty in that.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)You are correct ... It is horseshit, and cowshit, and chickenshit, and duckshit, too! But that straw man is NOT borne of Communities of Color, here on DU, or elsewhere ... it is the (mis/dis)interpretation coming from those desperately attempting to protect the legacy of Bernie, that was never in question.
There is a huge difference between saying, "Bernie's campaign prioritizes/focuses almost exclusively on economic primacy, a solution that doesn't address my needs/issues/interests" (what IS being said) and "Bernie doesn't care about X community", or the hyperbolic, and equally, misguided/misinterpreted accusation that someone has said/meant/implied, "Bernie is a racist" (which has NEVER been said).
Surely, you see that!
Prism
(5,815 posts)That sentiment was all over both DU and the wider internet in the wake of the BLM protests. There were plenty of comments that Sander's focus on economics meant he only really cared about white working and middle class voters. It was practically a theme.
I don't understand. Why deny it? I'm not a Sanders partisan by any means. I'm waiting to see O'Malley in the debates before making up my mind. But I know unfair, destructive attacks when I see them.
That line of thought was difficult to miss.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Then you won't have a problem linking to a single DUer that said that. And when you try, you will find those words coming out the keyboard of a Bernie-supporter. And you will, also, find a DUer of Color, calling them on the mis/dis-statement ... then, it devolves to, "Well ... that's what I know what you meant by your implied statement" (the meme has now changed to,"Well ... that's what I know what you meant by your dog-whistle)".
Because it didn't happen ... and I, for one, am tired of being told what I meant by what I said.
Prism
(5,815 posts)So, I'll decline. GD
is a festive alert atmosphere.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)ETA: I will risk the hide to give lie to your claim.
So unless you are willing to back up your claim ... I ask you to stop.
Again ... There is a huge difference between saying, "Bernie's campaign prioritizes/focuses almost exclusively on economic primacy, a solution that doesn't address my needs/issues/interests" (what IS being said) and "Bernie doesn't care about X community", or the hyperbolic, and equally, misguided/misinterpreted accusation that someone has said/meant/implied, "Bernie is a racist" (which has NEVER been said).
randys1
(16,286 posts)tell you what is best for you.
OK, now does it SEEM like that is what is being said to you?
I am asking you, I dont want to put words in your mouth, it sounds like that to me, but I want to know what YOU think.
I mean this is an important conversation because EVERY time you say something that is not completely in support of Bernie, at least one or more people here, most of them white I assume, chimes in to advise you that you dont know what you are talking about.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)opinion on the subject matter. I see no hesitation on either one of your parts in engaging in discussion of this LGBT issue in this LGBT thread. Why is that? Do you know better than those silly gay people? Is that what I should read from your both making comments in this tread instead of asking questions?
randys1
(16,286 posts)about why they should like Bernie.
I dont know anyone in my personal life who is a bigger supporter of the LGBTQIA community.
So I will just not say anymore in this thread, because it sure sounds like you are questioning my commitment to equality and so on
and that would be the final straw for me...
so bye bye
and yes I lost sight of what the thread was about, and I have no doubt AT ALL that Bernie is as big a supporter as I am
and instead of insulting me and questioning my support you could have told me to direct my thoughts on the OP
and I would have respected that
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I have, and will, correct the record on what PoC (on DU, and in the larger community) have said.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the immediate poster (that I was responding to) does not seem to be saying that; but, there are those that walk right up to that line {ETA: particularly, in discussions of the prioritization social/economic justice.
But honestly, I'm am starting to attribute that more to being at a loss for words.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)and what exactly does the AA community believe Lady Rodham intends to do? I respect everyone's choice, but the preference for Clinton is a mystery.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)you will have to ask an African-American that supports HRC.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)why I support I do not support her.
If it's the former question; then, No, I do not. If the question is the latter; then, it's because I prefer Martin O'Malley as a candidate, more.
But that said, two things: First, my state's primary is after Super Tuesday and most of the swing states, and because my work obligations prevent me from taking time off to travel to earlier states to work a campaign, my preference in the Democratic primary, likely will not matter.
Secondly, I will, continue doing voter registration and GOT(Democratic)V efforts, and will work to elect of whomever is the Democratic nominee.
Gothmog
(145,130 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"they're saying Bernie doesn't care about Black people" zombie of a DU:Bernie myth die?
I mean, it only has been slain 17 times ... today.
Manufactured Outrage
that's HRC supporters only trick, and its getting old.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)that although asked repeatedly to help the HRC with various initiatives or to attend functions he was dismissive and you don't speak for the LGBT community.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)I remember her work on one of their most important initiatives
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You're not supposed to bring that up.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)
jalan48
(13,860 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)
Puglover
(16,380 posts)"bedrock" and "foundation" (which is very seldom) there is very little wiggle room for me to "evolve".
Just utterly barf worthy.
Prism
(5,815 posts)Thanks for going there. It saves me trouble.
Neither of us speaks for the community, but if anyone says Sanders hasn't been there for us for decades, I will name that person liar.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)I was speaking to Joe's knowledge given that you brought him up.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)he's calling Joe a liar. 
Prism
(5,815 posts)Although, not getting along with Joe Solmonese is more plus than minus in my book. I haven't researched what Durham noted, but I have no cause to disbelieve her.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)
He's going to have to produce hard evidence to back up his propagandist claims in order for any reasonable person to believe a single thing he says about Bernie Sanders.
The main super PAC supporting Hillary Clinton is struggling in its early efforts to line up cash toward a fundraising goal of as much as $500 million, according to sources with knowledge of its fundraising.
The group, Priorities USA Action, is trying to secure 30 or more pledges of at least $1 million apiece to be unveiled publicly when the former secretary of state officially enters the race, sources say. But, so far, it has received only about 10 firm commitments, and it is encountering resistance from top donors who have given to other Clinton-linked vehicles, including ostensibly aligned super PACs and even the apolitical Clinton Foundation.
snip---
Priorities board member Joe Solmonese, a former president of the Human Rights Campaign, said major donors aren’t going to conflate any of the pro-Clinton super PACs, let alone the foundation.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/hillary-clinton-priorities-usa-action-115084
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Solmonese
Prism
(5,815 posts)Joey is riding that sweet, sweet gravy train. Of course.
Prism
(5,815 posts)Look, you're a hyperpartisan for Hillary. That's totally fine. And on the LGBT issues, you're going to have to find something to hang your hat on after she completely bent us over on gay marriage because it suited her. You found your instance readily and easily (and involving the HRC, I'll note).
It's flimsy, IMO. But you're going with it.
At no point did I claim you stated any falsehood.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)"don't speak for the community!" when EVERY other minority is treated as a spokesman or spokeswoman for their community by default as soon as they open their mouths.
Are YOU gay, Durham D?
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)But I suppose these words are used differently in your country.
Every time I hear any gay person or lesbian or transgender person or bisexual person say anything about the LGBT community, there is an instant chorus of "How would YOU know" from a typically rather small section of the rest of the community. Those who live outside heteronormativity in my little country are no exception. One day a wise person will explain to me why this is so.
You should know better than to do these things. I am extremely angry with you.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)what you are on about. Feel free to go ahead and be extremely angry with me as I don't give a flip.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)and Sander's record on gay rights, your not giving a flip doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)and knowing the actual history of it all I am well aware of who has been working to move the ball forward over time and who has just been present. Perhaps you haven't noticed that the vast majority of LGBTQers are not Sanders supporters, not just on DU but in the country. They know the difference as well.
Go insult someone else.
" Perhaps you haven't noticed that the vast majority of LGBTQers are not Sanders supporters, not just on DU but in the country. "
Really? Did Joe tell you that?
sibelian
(7,804 posts)"Activist credentials" poker is for people who don't have anything to say, Durham D.
Your opinion of yourself is noted. Happy?
Presumably the ratio of Sanders to Clinton supporters among LGBTQers in the US is in fact differentiable from the ratio of Sanders to Clinton supporters among non-LGBTQers? You must have figures somewhere acutally demonstrating a preference for Hillary Clinton among LGBTQers beyond the heternormative background? Because I can't find anything of the sort, try as I might.
I bow to your superior research skills.
Here's an interesting article for you from an on-line publication that I am sure you will know very well:
http://www.queerty.com/32-years-before-marriage-equality-bernie-sanders-fought-for-gay-rights-20150719
Present, indeed.
George II
(67,782 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)I've been invovled in organising major conferences for bisexuals in the UK, appeared on TV on polyamory discussion panels, organised clubs for alternative sexualities, danced on Pride floats...
And so on.
I'd suggest getting to know a little more about people before you make silly assumptions about them. You'll notice that I went to the trouble of actually asking Durham D what her sexual orientation was. You might have avoided looking like an absolute fool by paying me the same courtesy.
To answer your question: "Then why isn't it the LBT movement?" - if that's what it was called it wouldn't be talking about gay people, would it?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)with Bernie, it is not just rhetoric.......he can get angry over disrespect.....
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4542132/bernie-sanders-calls-duke-cunningham
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)citizens, Bernie was standing up for us. He vehemently, and respectfully, defended our rights and dignity as equal human beings.
The insults and harm inflicted by conservatives and the Democrats who supported, promoted. and even legislated injustices such as DOMA and DADT, etc. have left many scars on our LGBT family.
But Bernie has, clearly, always felt and understood in his heart that we are equal human beings, and his words and actions have always consistently shown this to be true. In contrast, many of us got ostracized, even thrown out of the house, by our own parents when we told them we are LGBT.
Bernie is the real deal, and with regard to my LGBT perspective, I can support him without reservation.
Thanks, Prism.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Firstly, we don't give them enough votes for any of them to give a fuck...
Secondly, they have convinced themselves that the rest of the disenfranchised seek respect, however, they are somehow dimly aware that there isn't a gay man or woman on the planet who regards other people's respect, which, in our case blows this way and that with the wind, as a currency in which we can afford to invest.
Mr Sanders respects all. I receive his respect by default. I needn't invest in it. It comes for free.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)... I should add.
He stands out, shall we say.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)You speak for me too.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)I saw something about how Sanders expressed support when Vermont legalized civil unions. It was interpreted as meaning he must not have been in favor of gay marriage.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)He claimed that because Bernie wouldn't comment that proved he didn't support same sex marriage.
Because not saying something in a non-existent interview is exactly the same thing as saying something.
cali
(114,904 posts)Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts) Prism
(5,815 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)a Bernie-supporter will say you "implied it"/"dog whistled it" ... the moment you mention a rift and their reminding you of his long and storied history and record for social justice doesn't answer your immediate concern.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
Vattel
(9,289 posts)
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)I had to google Joe Solmonese, that's how much I pay attention to the Human Rights Campaign, I will probably lose my gay card for that one. What happened to Elizabeth Birch? lol I guess I am not as "high info" as I thought I was
Prism
(5,815 posts)For a variety of reasons. Whether it was their inflated membership numbers, their toadying for a political party rather than the community they claimed to serve, their weird fuck-up over trans rights, the list goes on and on and on with them.
Strangely, I haven't heard anything about or from them in ages. Are they even a thing?
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)but I don't move in those circles!
azmom
(5,208 posts)
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)