2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAn Open Letter to Howard Dean.
Dear Governor Dean:
My wife was surprised by your recent FB post concerning Secretary Clinton.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10153570814617505&id=34668722504&comment_id=10153570862667505
She responded in that thread and below I reprint her comments with her permission:
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I was the last Dean delegate elected (Kansas caucus) in the US in the 2004 election cycle. I worked for you because of your ideas and continued to hold out even after Kerry was assured the nomination. Why? Because I believed in the ideas you espoused, I believed you were a breath of fresh air that wasn't going to cave to what the powers-that-be dictated and because you connected to people and got them interested in the political process again. You gave me hope. You gave a lot of us hope that change could start at the grassroots level.
I went to Boston and proudly told everyone that I was a Dean delegate. I gave up my credentials so my alternate could cast her vote for Kerry's nomination because I couldn't do it.
You came to hometown, Lawrence, Kansas as the DNC chair. I stood proudly on the stage at Liberty Hall with you because you were working for the people. You later attended a gathering at the home of a friend of mine and accepted a painting I gave you that my brother painted and which you told me you would hang at the DNC offices in DC. This gathering was something that many of us Deaniacs worked to put together.
Afterward, I helped organize a training through the DFA to help others become better advocates for the political system. I thought you still believed in people like me. Now I realize that you have either given up on listening to those of us whose passions drive us to support candidates who inspire us or maybe you never believed in us at all.
I #feelthebern because I believe in Bernie and the dream he has for America. I will fight for Bernie's nomination, the way I once fought for you. I believe in Bernie, the way I once believed in you.
It broke my heart when I saw that you became a shill for the establishment. I will vote for Hillary if she wins the primary but I will do my damndest to make sure she doesn't.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)Because it is full of holes.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)still_one
(91,937 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)All Bernie has is volunteers. HRC has almost the entire Dem Establishment. In other words, people who have a financial and career interest in maintaining Business As Usual. BAU is destroying the planet, not just America.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Seems like sour grapes to me.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)Either he is deluded, or acting out of self interest. It's analogous to HRC's IWR vote in 2002, imo.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I think if you shoukd look in a mirror before you call others deluded.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)The majority of Americans are to the left of both parties, because of 35 years of Reaganism destroying the planet and oppressing the people.
Let me ask you this: do you know what the Sixth Extinction is? Do you know the significance of 400PPM is? That is what I meant by deluded.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I do not think you should insult Dean because you don't like hhis choice.
Makes you look bitter.
Cheers.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)this is well beyond the United States.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)To address much, if any of these issues.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)on any side... we are way late to the party... thankfully not at the state level (some states), and the Feds are trying.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Because he deserves a lot of criticism for backing a corporate lackey at this late point in human history.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)You do realize that the GOP defeated us badly in the last election and control both the senate and house as well as many governors and the SCOTUS don't you?...if that is a gain what the hell is a loss?
But it is not their fault is it?...lets stick with them and next time it will work out...that is the enabler position every time.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I don't think Sanders can win.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)So praise them if you want, but don't give credit where it is not earned.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)Because if it is HRC we stand to lose the WH and the GOP will keep the congress.
People ARE fed up with politics as usual...you can feel it in the air...even in the GOP and that is why Trump is doing well...he is viewed as not an insider.
But I will predict this...if Hillary is the nominee the GOP will pick a Bush or maybe even a woman and they will sound moderate enough that the party will turn out in force just to vote against HRC if nothing else and independents and some Dems will stay home because they see no potential for real change...and some here at DU will blame Sanders and his supporters.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Agree completely.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Do you mean Obama finally realizing that hourly "supervisors" should not be forced to work without compensation as a company policy?
Do you mean Obama finally bringing back the 40 hour work week that unions gave us 75 years ago?
brooklynite
(93,834 posts)You do realize that the GOP LOST badly in the last PRESIDENTIAL election and WE WON MORE HOUSE AND SENATE SEATS? Even with an establishment "practically a Republican" Presidential candidate?
Response to brooklynite (Reply #69)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)The guy has been there 26yrs but some think he just arrived in DC. Yes were back to the ponies and unicorn wing of the Democratic Party.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And the president we elected can't get anything done and has an excuse?
How does that make us a winner?
But he did get fast track on the TPP...something most Dems don't want...but I won't speak for you, you can tell us if you want it or not because all of the GOP do.
still_one
(91,937 posts)declaring their support for Bernie, and along with some anti-Hillary rants.
They are sadly mistaken if they believe going after a Hillary supporter helps Bernie
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)still_one
(91,937 posts)verbiage
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)his recent ringing endorsement of their candidate?
Or are no Hillary supporters FB friends with Dr. Dean?
Metric System
(6,048 posts)candidate? I could understand Trump supporters behaving this way, but it's not like Sanders is saying nasty things about his primary opponents as Trump has.
still_one
(91,937 posts)don't go after Howard Dean because he supports Hillary.
I don't see it written anywhere that you can't "go after" a public figure for making a decision you don't agree with.
Is Dr. Dean "God?" Is he above reproach?
Metric System
(6,048 posts)listening to Sanders' refusal to attack fellow Democrats. It's also safe to say the behavior I have seen on Twitter is not limited to that social media platform.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)Primary politics is a contact sport and people's zeal leads them to be impolitic. No group in this campaign is free from that assertion.
revmclaren
(2,488 posts)Supporters will be the ones who actually vote for him and get out and campaign for him, not those who wave and cheer him on like a screamer at a Miley concert. 'Fans' tend to get nasty when their idol is offended. Supporters work through the rough parts of an election and take the good with the bad in stride. 'FANS' can be very fickle...They jump ship when their idol looks like he or she is losing popularity. I would rather have 1000 Clinton supporters than 10000 sanders fans.
DU has a LOT of sanders fans!!!
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)They view him like a rock star.
"The Bernmaster" "the Beminator" "Obi Bern Kenobi"
Seriously?
hedda_foil
(16,368 posts)It's so out in left field it's hilarious, but if it makes you feel better, go with it.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)If your 1,000 Clinton supporters don't convince their candidate to stop legislating and advocating for her corporate contributors.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Clinton is the one with fans who don't give a shit about issues.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)He's been my Senator for years. I am donating time and money and I will fight for him the way I once fought for Dean.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)But we need to preempt another PUMA movement when Bernie wins the nomination.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)how did you know what I meant?
Metric System
(6,048 posts)nothing. President Obama still won the general election with the support of the majority of HRC supporters.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)But the 2008 campaign became very divisive and this general election might be closer than 2008, so we need party unity ASAP when the nomination is resolved.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I have not met on HRC supporter say they would not vote for him.
revmclaren
(2,488 posts)even knowing that he wouldn't have a chance in the general. That is party loyalty.
I posted an op some time back explaining my feeling about non voters. I call them 'no ways' for obvious reasons.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and I have met them for all candidates actually, Ok not Chaffee and Webb, and they all still amount to less than my ten fingers. That is how big it is right now. But hey, I report on this shit... and as a reporter a nice PUMA movement would be ahem, conflict. As an American that would be a problem.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)However, given both the events of 2008's primary campaign, and what I've seen from them since April 30, I'm not sure if I believe them.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)as they say in public.
Call us liars all you want but it only makes you look foolish.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And do bear in mind reading this, that I do recognize you are someone who genuinely supports Clinton for the sake of supporting Clinton.
But what I've seen since Sanders declared his candidacy is constant, screaming rage directed at him. A never-ending parade of posters and tweeters and facebookers and whatnot, throwing out every slander, every lie, every nugget of potential outrage and anger and disgust about the man that they can. And we're only four months in, with no signs that it will let up
People who have invested so much time, energy, and effort into constant hatred of a candidate are really going to turn around and vote for him? I simply struggle to believe that.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)We have our faults but we are not the one who started it nor who does it the most.
Sorry but this is really rich coming from a Sanders supporter.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And if there is a Sanders version of the PUMAS, maybe you'll even be vindicated for doing so.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)If there is ever a "pro-Sanders" equivalent to the PUMA movement, maybe you'll be vindicated in so doing.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)...aren't you?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I'm saying I have no reason to think history will not repeat itself.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Maybe ou should spend more of your time worrying about what your guys are doing
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)bad Sanders is. My guys don't make DU suck.
Look to your guys for that.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)No matter who the nominee is... It's just going to get worse in the GE.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Primaries are always nastier.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)If you think the woman who caused Benghazi or a bonfide socialist are going to get a pass from the right wing... Ok.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)No, what I mean is, we all expect nasty bullshit from the Republicans. It's a different thing when the naked hatred and rage is coming from "your own side" who then smile sweetly and say "I'll vote for them anyway!"
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Historic NY
(37,449 posts)So you tell me.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)I guess compared to Bush in the context of 2004 and the goings on back then he might have seemed like one to the desperate. This reminds me of the people who claim they were fooled by Obama, they weren't paying attention.
This endorsement doesn't surprise me in the least, I would have been in shock if he came out for Sanders!
frylock
(34,825 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)He called for a revival of internment camps to help combat Muslim extremism, saying, If these people are radicalized and they dont support the United States and they are disloyal to the United States as a matter of principle, fine. Its their right and its our right and obligation to segregate them from the normal community for the duration of the conflict.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)ozone_man
(4,825 posts)He was always a centrist Dem, left-center by national standards, and right-center by Vermont standards.
I guess this will be and is a grass roots campaign, and if it's strong enough, the status quo politicians will jump onto the band wagon. Certainly in the general.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)If anyone wants to debate rationally and civilly, I'm willing to do that in a few hours or less.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)And any endorsement he makes will not change that. It will also have no effect on who I am supporting.
LuvLoogie
(6,852 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)However, I don't think he thought back then that Bernie was going to run.
Geronimoe
(1,539 posts)Dean was never the same after the establishment destroyed him.
They will attempt to do the same to Bernie. Let's figure a week before Iowa caucuses or NH primaries, it will get very ugly.
BooScout
(10,406 posts)BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)We were a few of the last Dean holdouts, despite pleas (and a little bullying) from the Kucinich people (the Kerry people didn't bother. They didn't want any of us great unwashed to caucus with them). I thought of her, and how she went to the convention as a Dean delegate, when I read Dean's declaration of loyalty to the Clinton campaign the other night. Thanks for posting this and bringing back bittersweet memories of more than a decade ago.
Why do I think he's become so vocal? I believe he thinks he will earn a seat at the Big Kids table by throwing early support behind Hillary. I also believe they will leave him in their dust once again should she win the nomination and general election.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)oasis
(49,150 posts)and became a shill. Damn Jekyll and Hyde s.o.b..
Cha
(295,899 posts)oasis
(49,150 posts)I did not add a sarcasm splash because I thought it would throw off the poetic aspect of my post. "Thrill and "shill".
Since I couldn't imagine that a person who had admired Dr. Dean would use "shill" as a description of his character for supporting Hillary, I fell into a rapturous swoon.
While in my swoon I composed a tune to be a comfort to the injured soul who, seemingly, was betrayed by Dean.
So now the once revered Dr. Dean is a "shill"?. Such a dramatic fall from grace deserves due recognition.
Cha
(295,899 posts)sarcasm very dry.. well done, oasis.
LOL
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)to complement my passionate wife's outrage:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/128045525