I find it funny ... the HRC camp and the Bernie Camp ...

[1StrongBlackMan]

look at the same poll and cheer.

But as far as I can see, only one side has much to cheer about.

[seabeyond]

1. i look at the polls, but that is about as far as i am going. i hear clinton is sinking, underwater,

falling adn yet i continue to consistently see her sticking around the same.

[HassleCat]

2. Makes sense

Hillary is ahead, which makes Hillary supporters happy. Bernie is catching up, which makes Bernie supporters happy. What makes no sense is the way the two sides go after each other here on DU.

[HerbChestnut]

4. This.

This x1000

[woodsprite]

61. Just as long as they both keep way higher numbers than any Repub.

That'll keep me happy!

[Thinkingabout]

3. I see the polls and see Hillary with better numbers than Bernie has.

[HerbChestnut]

5. And Bernie supporters see the polls

And see an increasing trend in his support.

[VanillaRhapsody]

8. They can see it and still

Not recognize he has a ceiling

Unless he can cause HRC to lose significant support by Blacks, Hispanics and women. ....he cannot win

[artislife]

16. and the h supporters

Can't see that she is a bottomless well.

[VanillaRhapsody]

18. So far her aupport is holding strong

So I dont know what you are talking about..

[artislife]

20. case in point. ty

[VanillaRhapsody]

49. Do you really need me to post the overall polling results?

What have you got against Math?

[artislife]

50. You don't need to do anything.

[VanillaRhapsody]

57. Good...it gets so boring

Repeating yourself to those that will not see...

[teach me everything]

29. Clinton has 99% name recognition

Her ceiling was already hit. Bernie has about 55% name recognition and has plenty of upside. The debates are just around the corner, and we'll see who's right after the first debates.

[VanillaRhapsody]

30. And Bernie has had 40 yrs to

Make himself a household name.....

Funny how he never did "succeed" at even that huh?

[teach me everything]

32. To you, Clinton is a household name.

Sanders - I'm just learning more about him, and like what I'm hearing about him. Compared to Clinton's records and stances, I do believe Bernie's stance is much stronger, but I'm still on the fence, and looking at three candidates, which are Sanders, Clinton sand O'Malley.

He may have been in government service for 40 years, but throughout his entire career, he has been very consistent on issues that America really cares about. So many issues at hand, he has been been right in its foregone conclusions. He's close to getting my vote, but I really do want to see the debates to see if Clinton can succeed on nailing down issues that she has been vague about.

Would you agree that more solid footing in policies and issues (with plans) are better than hearing vague or dancing around the edge of the issues. I really didn't like her Keystone answer when recently asked about it - you know the one that she'll answer later.

I admire your convictions, and I support that. If you believe Clinton is the candidate, then I really need to hear more about solid policies, not platitudes.

[VanillaRhapsody]

36. Yes she is....

And she started when she spoke at the UN bfore the Council on Women in China.....which caused Republican heads to spin....because even the President had not been to China....unheard of from a First Lady....

Then she went on a singlehanded crusade to bring universal healthcare to Americans. It ws extremely controversal for a First Lady to have that kind of gravitas...though ultimately unsuccessftul it started a long conversaton about the issue into the public awareness.

She ultimately became part of the passage of SCHIP.

But yeah....she did nothing but be married to a President and thats ALL she ever did...

[John Poet]

45. Maybe she'll cause it herself.

She's her own worst enemy.

[Autumn]

21. And what do O'Malley supporters do?

[FSogol]

53. Realize that it is too early to care about polls.....

[Autumn]

62. Poor Chafe.

[FSogol]

65. Chaffee isn't really running, he's just trying to build cred with the Democrats and angle

for a cabinet position. Same with Webb, imo.

[kenfrequed]

66. hmm...

Personally I think Chafee and Webb are stalking horses for a Veep position. I think Hillary wanted to run a campaign as amorpheous as possible and wait until she had polling to determine what kind of VP candidate she could choose to highlight whatever she wanted. Both Chaffee and Webb could have been varying degrees of moderation or conservatism to 'counter balance' hillary in the generals.

(which btw is about as sound a strategy as Gore taking on Lieberman as his running mate in the 2000 campaign.)

[1StrongBlackMan]

7. So do I ...

I wonder if it is related to world-view ...One sees the world for what it is; the other, sees it for what they would like it to be. Both point of views is valuable ... until the one ignores the other.

[Thinkingabout]

13. Sorta like the glass is half full or half empty, huh.

[MoveIt]

31. Newsflash : if you sample those numbers over time

and plot those numbers on what they call a "graph", it gives you magical predictive powers! Have you seen one of these new fangled graph things?

[seabeyond]

43. this?

[MoveIt]

44. Wowie wow did Biden announce? n/t

[Ron Green]

6. One side sees the Status Quo as Death.

The other sees it as life itself.

[VanillaRhapsody]

19. Let me guess

Not a female....
.....


Do you have any idea what they will immediately do to our civil rights should WE lose? We will be enslaved to our wombs.....do you understand what that would mean if we fuck up and lose to our daughters and granddaughters after that? Tell me you are aware of the hundreds if not thousands of bills they have passed these last several years in supprt of enslaving us....We are fully if not more than half of the population of this country......should say a fluke happen....we lose because we chose the longshot.....and say those numbskulls choose Donald Trump...do you know the kind of insane legislatiom that will pass his desk and with the calling in of favors and wheeling and dealing he would sign off on? It scares me to think..

Now you fellows ou there better recognize.....what further subjucation for more than half the population also mean for yourself and your sons and grandsons...because

"Women's Rights are Human Rights"

Are not just some feel good terms.....there is actually some serious reality to those words......when you control womens fertility....you as men are al so yoked under those terms....because increasing the size of families increases the burden on f fathers who now must provide for a larger number of offspring...One or two mor than before...and the whole family each individual is mpacted by more mouths to feed and those are just the kind of workers Corp America dreams of.....

AND to be clear....its ours to losedecided to go for the longshot

[Ron Green]

23. I agree with you that women's rights are paramount.

I wasn't referring to that in my post, but to the fact that one side in this primary desperately fears a General Election with a corporate-friendly outcome, and the other side doesn't seem to care as much about that possibility.

[VanillaRhapsody]

24. And I disagree with your assessment..

What corporate friendy outcome? Dude You are part of the problem....you just said that and you "think" you are being fair.

Hyperbolic nonsense...

[Ron Green]

25. You're free to disagree, and to support whomever you wish.

My view is that only one candidate on either of the major-party sides is telling the truth about a bought-and-paid-for electoral system; and unless people begin listening, thinking and voting to change this, our chances for government and society that support life, not death, will slip away.

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. And I do

Her record speaks differently than you...
http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

And why I listen to it and not some guy pretendeding he is not biased....

[VanillaRhapsody]

37. Just to prove my point...

This happens.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027134764

But yeah lets bet on the longshot horse in the race.....

[Autumn]

63. What's Hillary gonna do about that?

Myself, I like long shots, I'll study them and their record and history and I have found that the one's I'm willing to bet on have won for me. Not too often a good one come along but man when they do..

[procon]

9. Remember the parable about the blind men and the elephant? Same thing.

[link:?w=1215|

[elleng]

10. YOU got it, procon!

[1StrongBlackMan]

11. This, IMO, is worse because ...

The elephant perception is based in evidence, this perceptual difference is based in emotion.

[Motown_Johnny]

12. The side rising or the side falling?

I know, you think the one with the higher number should be cheering even if it is falling off. This just shows how different the two camps really are.

[1StrongBlackMan]

14. Yes ... One side sees things as there are; the other, as they want it to be ...

but, again, there is nothing wrong with other view ... until one side forgets the other.

[SwampG8r]

38. Some see things as they are and ask why?

Others see things as they should be and ask why not?

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. I love that quote; but, what I'm seeing is quite different ...

Some see things as they are and ask why? ... Others see things as they should be and say it is.

[SwampG8r]

40. Perspective?

I don't see a lack in realism in what Sanders proposes but if you do I would enjoy hearing it

[1StrongBlackMan]

41. Yes, it is perspective ...

but I'm not talking about what Bernie proposes ... I'm merely talking about views of the polling, which has nothing (little) to do with policy positions.

[SwampG8r]

42. I don't see what polling this far out proves

I expect to see O'Malley start an upward climb soon but today's polls would say it won't happen
Hrc numbers are high but static with a possibility of an early peak and subsequent drop
As primary seasons go this one is much more interesting than I thought it might be

[artislife]

15. and sadly

It isn't good news for the candidate you are supporting. Which is a shame as I wouldn't have any qualms voting for him.

[Starry Messenger]

17. Just wait until the debates and speeches really ramp up.

It's gonna be like palmistry and reading goat entrails in here. I was still mostly lurking in 2008, but phew. I started posting more toward the end of the cycle and it took months for the insanity to die down. Well, some forms of insanity.

[Raine1967]

22. In the meantime, I am working to get O'Malley on the primary ballot in Virginia.

I am pretty happy to be working for that.

[PoliticAverse]

26. Did you feel the same way about the Hillary and Obama camps at this time in 2007? n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

33. Not really ...

I did't follow polling back then ... I just worked with the Party.

[AgingAmerican]

28. Since May

One candidate has been consistently climbing, and one consistently dropping in the polls. This trend will accelerate rapidly after the debates begin.

My condolences...

[MoveIt]

34. What is this 'trend' thing you speak of? #noextrapolation

you mean you can combine poll results over time?!?!?!? what is this wizardry?

[1StrongBlackMan]

35. I suspect M.O'M is going to slow the rise of your guy and help the decline of HRC. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

46. Exactly right.

[Jamaal510]

47. I always found it strange

how the media (yes even MSNBC) will say that she's going down and is doomed by the email non-scandal (never mind her fairly stagnant polling), but when it's Trump, they'll say he's "way ahead" even though his lead within his respective party's polling is smaller. They also very rarely mention things such as the amount of endorsements that she has versus her rivals, or how she polls among core Democratic constituencies. That's why when people (on both the right and left) say that the media is all in for Hillary, I can't take them seriously. She is by far the most scrutinized candidate from either major party this election cycle. Other candidates haven't gotten torched as badly as she has. Even as a guy who prefers someone else (Biden or O'Malley) over her, I can't help but feel bad about how unfair the pundits and her other detractors are to her.

[1StrongBlackMan]

60. +1 ...

That's why when people (on both the right and left) say that the media is all in for Hillary, I can't take them seriously.

I was watching a morning show this morning and notice:

Segment 1: HRC's declining poll numbers
Segment 2: Email (non) scandal

Commercial

Segment 3: HRC's declining poll numbers
Segment 4: The effect on Biden entering the race
Segment 5: Bernie rising poll numbers

I'm sure this was a coincidence.

[DemocraticWing]

48. Objectively: Hillary is leading by 20, but Bernie has was trailing by 40 a few months ago.

Hillary's camp views her lead as something to cheer, Bernie's camp views his increase in support as something to cheer. I don't see why either camp shouldn't be happy?

Take it this way: our teams play each other in basketball. Your team jumps out to a 35-10 lead, seemingly insurmountable. But then all of the sudden it's 45-32 at half time. You should be happy your team is leading, but my team should also be happy that we have closed the gap. My team should do well to not claim that we are going to win, we should do well not to assume you won't still pull off some good plays, and we shouldn't assume that nothing won't go wrong for us in the second half. We know we have lots of work to do and we admit it's not going to be easy. Of course we'd love to trade places, you're in the lead after all.

But sometimes the trailing team pulls of the comeback. That's what Bernie's trying to do. Sometimes the leading team pulls away when their inherent advantages turn out to be strong during crunch time. That's what Hillary's trying to do.

[jfern]

52. And in June a poll had Hillary leading Sanders 75-15

The race is way closer than then.

[Agnosticsherbet]

51. With so many younger voters witout permanent landlines, and fewer people willing to take a poll.

I have serious doubts about the validity of any poll.

I will go to the polls in California in June and vote for whoever is left, though I expect one or the other will have already won long before that

[sufrommich]

54. I don't think there are any polling companies that

rely on landlines anymore.

[FSogol]

55. 2003 called and wants its talking points back.

Seriously, you think polling companies are only calling landlines? You think people unwilling to take a poll hasn't been a thing for over a century?

[Armstead]

56. Simple. Glasses are either half full and half empty

...and how one looks at the glass. If one is actively supporting a candidate, the tendency if to focus on the half full part -- at least publicly.

Clinton supporters optimistically see a strong lead...and maintaining a lead.

Sanders supporters optimistically see starting from nothing and a trend of gaining ground.

There's the inverse of both on each side. Depends on how it is interpreted -- half full or half empty.

[morningfog]

58. It's called politics.

There are not good and bad facts.

There is good and bad spin.

[phleshdef]

59. I look at every poll and say "oh wait, its not even labor day yet" and disregard it.

[SouthernProgressive]

64. I would say the winner is the democratic party.

Hillary Clinton and Biden are the current front runners. Both excellent dems. Sanders is an outsider campaigning very well and stirring up enthusiasm. Some of that enthusiasm will flow into the party for the general and Sanders will be extremely gracious and contentious of rifts when he drops out. He has a record of being a party guy much to the dismay of many on both sides. Sanders has clearly attracted some libertarian support and that won't flow anywhere except back to the republicans. Sander is now also synonymous with the democratic party. Well, he has been working close with them for decades, but has now taken that final step in joining.

Outside of what I am reading here, the democratic party seems to be really shining to the majority of people. All of this talk has one thread in common. These excellent people are democrats. The republicans are helping along the way as well.