At what point is the party going to admit that there's a Hillary problem?

[ram2008]

Last edited Thu Sep 3, 2015, 09:52 PM - Edit history (1)

Despite having the whole Democratic establishment, all of the money, and all of the endorsements the slide continues. At what point are the leaders of the party going to say "Hmm this isn't smart" maybe we shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket? Blame the media all you want, but the numbers are starting to dip below 40% which is George W. Bush territory. This was supposed to be a cakewalk and now it's looking like a disaster in the making.

?1

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating

We have a Hillary problem, and it doesn't appear to be resolving any time soon, any reasonable person looking at that trend can see its headed right to the floor.

[jberryhill]

1. January 20, 2025. 12:01 PM eastern.

[Cheese Sandwich]

27. I was going say 9 AM Wednesday November 9, 2016

Slightly sooner

[LovingA2andMI]

43. 2025....LOL!!!

--- Yep, probably that long too...

[cantbeserious]

2. The Establishment Can Never Admit A Mistake

eom

[VanillaRhapsody]

3. Perhaps if there were one...

Seems to me compared to the rest of the field she is doing pretty damn well.....

Perhaps some should recognize that someone else running is having the real problem
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251569111

[HappyPlace]

6. The poop is deep where Hillary stands, with no signs of receding.

There's a malaise, Hillary fatigue, everybody's heard of her, and heard of her, and heard of her....

A significant number like her, but that number is shrinking, not growing.

As Sanders and O'Malley make themselves known, Hillary is losing support one voter at a time.

She doesn't dare come out, or have early debates, because that would end her.

In 2007 at this time we had seen 9 debates. This year, none at all.

That's pretty sad. If she does win the primary, we'll lose the general.

Time to switch out our plan and go with an FDR Democrat like Bernie or O'Malley.

[VanillaRhapsody]

7. Polls seem to belie your position

I think its a phenom known as projection

[ram2008]

9. The polls show a continued downward trajectory in her numbers

Aside from her favorability numbers she went from leading Trump by 13% to only leading by 2% in the period of one month. She's tanking... and the attack ads haven't even come out yet.

[VanillaRhapsody]

11. The polls show she is far ahead of your candidate

STILL.

And we have recent polling that SHE stands a better chance against Republicans....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251569111

Thats reality.

[AgingAmerican]

55. And losing ground every week

...to the relatively unknown Sanders. Once the debates begin, the floodgates will open up. Can't wait!

Only half a year til the first primary lol

[VanillaRhapsody]

60. And yet your candidate doesn

Seem to be gaining ground emwith women, African Americans and Hispanics.....who ihe cannot win without...

[AgingAmerican]

63. Rhetorical nonsense

Women and POC do not share a hive mind. Once the floodgates open, I will get out my surfboard and RIDE THE WAVE!

Only five months for Hillary to stop the hemorrhaging of support!

[VanillaRhapsody]

64. Really

Then why do polls say otherwise?

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/55ca47f6e4b0f73b20bad91a

[AgingAmerican]

65. Really, AND...

He will have most Independents, a high percentage of disgruntled Libertarians and Republicans voting for him, as well as women and POC.

Hillary will get no Independents, disgruntled Libertarians or Republicans.

It's a PERFECT STORM! The Democratic party has LOST CONTROL of the direction the party is going! No more right wing! Woohoo!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Stats can be fun

Aside from her favorability numbers she went from leading Trump by 13% to only leading by 2% in the period of one month. She's tanking... and the attack ads haven't even come out yet.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html#polls

[ram2008]

18. Your link shows Sanders beating Trump by an average of 7

Although its not really comparable since Sanders doesn't have universal name ID yet, Hillary and Trump do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. The same aggregates shows HRC leading by seven as well

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html#polls


I thought you folks suggested that trends are linear.


Or are the linearity of trends a function of whether or not you like the candidate or not?

[leveymg]

14. She's been on a slide since '08 when she polled -47

Trendline continues and she loses the General. That's the #1 reason to oppose her.

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. A slide?

Is that what you call it? Yet it seems the only demographic she has lost are White males....I think they arent as big a factor as they once were...

[Bonobo]

50. Losing white women too. And many others I am sure. nt

[HappyPlace]

41. Her negatives are higher than Christie, Paul, everyone else I looked at.

She wins at being bad.

Check for yourself.

[VanillaRhapsody]

47. Really now?

You have any science to support that...or is it something formerly in your rectum?

[HappyPlace]

54. proof. it's really easy to find.

Hillary Clinton has the highest unfavorable numbers among all others:

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/rand-paul-favorable-rating

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/ted-cruz-favorable-rating

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/chris-christie-favorable-rating

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/mitch-mcconnell-favorable-rating

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/nancy-pelosi-favorable-rating

and, try to be less rude.

[VanillaRhapsody]

59. Aaaaaaaand yet

They want to vote for her....guess its the fact that you dont understand the American voter afterall.

[Warren DeMontague]

73. you asked for evidence, he gave you evidence.

[VanillaRhapsody]

74. Of what?

When they are STILL voting for her? What does a silly little chart prove?

How about the polls rhat show Clinton beating all Republicans but Sanders...meh....not so much.....do you have charts that show that?)

[Warren DeMontague]

75. For one, no one is voting for anyone, yet.

But if you go upthread, you made a comment asking if a specific piece of information was made up- I think the precise words you used had something to do with something coming from someone's "rectum"- and were promptly shut down---

with links.



It's not that hard to follow.

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. For one....then what is good is the chart?

indeed!

Here are the "charts" that matter..

http://predictwise.com/

12% chance!

[Warren DeMontague]

78. I'm not sure what point you think you're making.

but do carry on.

[jfern]

36. In the primary, yes

In the general, we lose. 3rd way doesn't mean good at winning elections.

[VanillaRhapsody]

62. Who you calling Thirdway

Seems to me the Independent running on the Dem ticket is the "Thirdway". Funny tou critcize with that term indeed...

[jfern]

67. Hillary is Third Way

It has nothing to do with running as an Independent, and Sanders is running for the Democratic nomination.

[AgingAmerican]

69. Third way is the opposite of independent

They are essentially Republicans masquerading as Democrats and they have no place in our party. They are losing control of the direction of the party because of Sanders and it is a BEAUTIFUL thing.

[Scuba]

80. + Eighty Gazillion

[azmom]

83. Yes, it is a beautiful thing to behold.

[Metric System]

4. Let the voters decide in the primary.

[ram2008]

5. I agree, we should get rid of superdelegates

Let the voters decide.

[Metric System]

8. Superdelegates were created to avoid messy conventions and repeat the horror of 1968. No one will

get the nomination with more superdelegates than votes anyway. The optics would be so bad that it would ruin our changes of retaining the White House. However, superdelegates are an important indicator of party support for a candidate. I know I missed the signs in 2007-08 when then-Senator Obama was racking up superdelegates on his way to the nomination.

[HappyPlace]

44. End winner take all states. nt

[L0oniX]

12. +1

[okasha]

34. Almost all of the superdelegates have been elected to represent the voters.

You know, people like Senators, Reps, Governors. The notion that the supers are some sort of randomly selected aristocracy out to oppress the masses is pure bullshit. The rest have been chosen by the Party, which consists of voters. Again, they've gone through a democratic selection process.

[ram2008]

35. That's certainly a way to spin it, lol! n/t

[okasha]

40. That's certainly the way it is.

Like it or not.

But there'll be a howl about them nonetheless when Hillary is nominated. I do hope you realize that the Democratic Party as a whole is not running around with its hair on fire shrieking that the sky is falling. Nor does anyone who's seen her eat a Republican-led Senate committee for lunch expect her to do poorly in the debates.

[LovingA2andMI]

46. Floor Flights Are Still Possible...

Don't Believe the Hype. #FeelTheBern #FeelItDamnIt....

[VanillaRhapsody]

77. Now you are counting on a floor fight?

Http://predictwise.com.

12% chance

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. After years of RW investigations, millions of dollars wasted

Again - on Whitewater 2.0.

Why she or the party wants to put the country through that again is beyond me. I don't care if the issue is bogus or real, she and the DNC knew this was coming. Instead of sitting it out and enjoying retirement with her new granddaughter, her ego made her do it. Her running is certainly not what's best for our country. She just wants to go down in the history books as the first female president. That's all this is.

Should she win, which is highly unlikely, we'll have nothing but investigation after investigation after investigation. Hell, look at all the investigations they've done on her while not being President! They. Will. Never. Stop. Investigating. Her - until she retires. How many millions of tax dollars spent on investigations is she worth?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. So we should let the Rethuglicans choose our nominee?

"After years of RW investigations, millions of dollars wasted. Why she or the party wants to put the country through that again is beyond me..."

So we should let the Rethuglicans choose our nominee?

[oasis]

39. He's not worried about that. The horror of tax dollars

being wasted on right wing investigations seems to be his primary concern.

[procon]

30. Well, that was quite a sexist remark.

So, you think Clinton has a big ego, and of course, none of the men who ran for president ever had audacious egos. And you think this egotistical woman is also so shallow and vapid that the only reason she could think of to want to be the president is to become a footnote in a history textbook? Riiight, were' all like that, you know, insipid, silly ole ninnies, the lot of us wimminfolk.

When you lament about the so called investigation targeted at Clinton, did you forget that these are Republican contrivances designed to weaken the strongest Democratic opponent and clear the way for getting another Republican into the WH? Yes, Republicans will no doubt continue "investigating" Clinton to the brink of the grave and beyond, because that is their schtick. It's what they do, and money is not even a factor as long as the GOP continues to hold the House majority and they have the means of spending millions in pursuit of that ever elusive brass ring... a Clinton head mounted on the wall,

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. Feel better now? n/t

[sadoldgirl]

15. It seems to me that the party is splitting

I don't see the millennials voting for HRC,
and I don't see the entrenched establishment
going for Bernie.

I am not sure that this is the best way, but
I see the hardliners on both side. If this will
happen we will have a huge "revolution"
taking place in 2018. I am willing to bet
on that.

We shall see.

[VanillaRhapsody]

29. Perhaps the Independents should have formed thier own

Last edited Fri Sep 4, 2015, 12:31 AM - Edit history (1)

Party then.....perhaps Bernie choosing not to wasnt such a good idea...

[sadoldgirl]

37. Well, Nilla, you seem to forget that

there are still people, who believe that
FDR was a Dem. The youngsters seem to
have looked at his plans ( without the racist
policies) and seem to think that the party
should go back to its roots.

[AgingAmerican]

58. The Democratic party establishment now occupies positons

previously held by the Republicans. "Right wing" is the problem.

[Juicy_Bellows]

68. Ding Ding! A winner is you! +100 Nt.

[LovingA2andMI]

49. For Some Reason.....

The Revolution Might Take Place in 2016. How About in October -- of this Year. #FYI --- Those Bernie Supporters are like Barack Obama Supporters in 2007-08 x 150th Power.

[MADem]

16. Well, based on your avatar, what are you whining about? You should be thrilled!

Put your feet up, declare victory! Enjoy your Huffpost graphic, cut and trimmed of the Huffpost identifiers--did you get that courtesy of washingtonforberniesanders.com !!! ? Or somewhere else? It's really polite to identify the source, when the headers are cut off like that, and all....



http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating

[ram2008]

19. Your pic cuts off in may!

But you're right, I forgot to source it, it's Huff pollster, I'll edit OP. And no, I made it myself .

[MADem]

31. It was a screen grab from the Bernie site (right click and you will see the source). nt

[brooklynite]

17. When there's actually a Hillary problem?

Hillary Clinton still beats Bernie Sanders.

Hillary Clinton still beats the Republicans.

[procon]

21. I'd probably think there was a Clinton problem too, if I only looked this one chart.

If you're basing your opinions on opinion polls, go back to the same website where you found this one, and look at some of the other charts to get a broader view. You'll be surprised (or maybe not) to discover that Clinton still leads all other democratic candidates, and she handily beats all the Republicans as well. Which probably explains why Republicans are so busy spreading similar snippets of doom and gloom as if they are premonitions come from on high and have nothing to do with getting a Republican in the WH.

Look, opinion polls are a snapshot in time, and we're still a long time away from any debates or primaries. Everyone knows that opinion polls can rise and fall on nothing more than a yell, an unflattering photo, or an open mic, so lets not latch onto one set of data points like it's the Holy Grail while omitting all the rest.

[Onlooker]

23. Hillary is being attacked by the right and the left

Right now, Hillary is facing attacks from both the right and the left, so that is hurting her approval rating. No one is really going after Sanders because the Republicans believe he'd be easier to beat than Hillary and a lot of Democrats who support Hillary also like Sanders. I support Sanders because of his politics, but I also like Hillary because she's tough as nails and the best shot ever for this country to elect a woman president.

[CoffeeCat]

24. She's lost 20 points in Iowa since May.

Hillary has tanked 20 points in Iowa since May. This is significant because she has spent more time in Iowa than any other state.

She's interviewed with local media, participated in the Iowa State Fair, and she's been consistently campaigning in Iowa and getting Iowa press coverage for those events.

Those 20 points are a huge loss, because it is where her campaign is up and running and trying!

Make no mistake, her campaign and the entire Democrstic party are in crisis mode. They see the handwriting on the wall. This is the reason why Biden is being trial-ballooned. They have to do something.

Also important to note: When you compare Hillary vs Obama Iowa numbers at this time during 2007 (5 months before the caucus),--Hillary is doing WORSE against Sanders than she was against Obama back then. Do people understand how significant that is? Obama won the Iowa caucus and Sanders is in a better position now, in Iowa, than Obama was.

She's posed to lose Iowa, and she's all ready behind in NH. She'll most likely lose the first two states.

Another thing that will continue to matter less--national polls. It's all about the polls within the voting states. In 2008, Hillary was consistently far ahead in national polls, especially during the pre-primary season and during the time that the first few states held their primaries. However, Obama continued to win states even though Hillary was ahead in most national polls. Those state polls, and Iowa and NH, aren't looking too good for Hillary.

[HappyPlace]

25. Thank you. nt

[LovingA2andMI]

51. Well, it's only a matter of time until this strategy is mixed up (like a bad batch) again...

"A series of comments from Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, her husband and her supporters are spurring a racial backlash and adding a divisive edge to the presidential primary as the candidates head south to heavily African-American South Carolina.

The comments, which ranged from the New York senator appearing to diminish the role of Martin Luther King Jr. in the civil rights movement — an aide later said she misspoke — to Bill Clinton dismissing Sen. Barack Obama’s image in the media as a “fairy tale” — generated outrage on black radio, black blogs and cable television. And now they've drawn the attention of prominent African-American politicians.

“A cross-section of voters are alarmed at the tenor of some of these statements,” said Obama spokeswoman Candice Tolliver, who said that Clinton would have to decide whether she owed anyone an apology."

http://www.politico.com/story/2008/01/racial-tensions-roil-democratic-race-007845

Well...never mind. Bernie's not African-American but if he wins the first two (Iowa, New Hampshire), it is expected based on history, everything including the losing kitchen sink will be thrown in. At least time time, it wouldn't be a surprise....

[aggiesal]

66. And watch how many more debates get scheduled ...

after Hillary loses both Iowa and NH.

[Juicy_Bellows]

26. I don't get it. The DNC is outta touch and we're outta time!

But there are a few folks here that still believe in staying the course.

I'm in the bandstand and I'm not going to play while the ship sinks, I'm bailing.

To further clarify, I've been playing from shore with Bernie since this whole thing started. I saw the iceberg in the water years ago.

Fortunately, only the captain has to go down with this ship unless they force others to drown with them.

[LovingA2andMI]

52. Love this song...

So relevant in 2015 and likely 2016, especially with the DNC apparatus......

[doc03]

32. It is easy to see when her numbers started going south

right after the 2012 election and the right wing media went on a 24/7 attack. Then again after Sanders entered the race and the
Democrats started their cannibalism. It's sad we are going to doom ourselves to a Republican administration, house, senate and SC.

[Godhumor]

42. Eh, the Republicans are in the midst of a much worse internal implosion

Democrats are still the odds on favorite to win the White House.

[doc03]

48. If the economy doesn't implode before the election maybe n/t

[restorefreedom]

38. when bernie or om gets the nom. nt

[progree]

45. Exclusive: Former Clinton aide has rebuffed FBI and State Department investigators in email probe

The former aide to Hillary Clinton who helped set up and maintain her private email server has declined to talk to the FBI and the State Department inspector general’s office, as well as a congressional committee, invoking his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself, sources familiar with the investigation confirmed to Yahoo News.

The move by Bryan Pagliano, who served on Clinton’s 2008 campaign and later as a technology officer in the State Department, to decline to cooperate in two federal probes considerably raises the stakes in the Clinton email investigation, the sources said. It confronts the Justice Department with a decision about whether to grant him immunity in exchange for his testimony — a move that could be taken only were the department to escalate the probe into a full-scale criminal investigation, the sources said.

More: https://www.yahoo.com/politics/clinton-aide-has-rebuffed-fbi-and-state-department-128271848515.html

The optics of this are not good. Previous reports was that he was just stonewalling Gowdy's Benghazi Committee, but now its FBI and State Dept investigators too.

[LovingA2andMI]

56. Facts....Facts....

Oh, well never mind....

[progree]

57. We shall see. nm

[NCjack]

53. As the DEM Party goes thru the Five Stages of Grief:

1. Denial -- this where they are now.
2. Anger -- this will happen March 1, 2016 (polls from: CO, GA, MA, MN, NC, VA)
3. Bargaining -- this will happen March 15, 2016 (polls from FL, IL, MO, OH)
4. Depression -- this will happen April 19, 2016 (poll from NY). More on April 26, 216 (PA poll). And more on June 7, 2016 (CA poll).
5. Acceptance -- this will happen at the DEM convention. (July 25-28, 2016)

The DEM landscape is moving too fast in an unwanted direction for the DEM party to get out front before the convention.

[HappyPlace]

61. Cruz, Paul, Christie, McConnell, Pelosi unfavorables: Hillary's are worse

Hillary Clinton has the highest unfavorable numbers among these others:

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/rand-paul-favorable-rating

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/ted-cruz-favorable-rating

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/chris-christie-favorable-rating

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/mitch-mcconnell-favorable-rating

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/nancy-pelosi-favorable-rating

That's pretty bad.

[Warren DeMontague]

72. worse than Christie?

Christie's own pants can't stand him.

[HappyPlace]

81. LOL...

I can't touch that.

Seriously, I do NOT want to touch that.

[eridani]

70. The only problem I have with her is that she is wrong on too many things

Where she is right, she is indistinguishable from other Dem candidates.

[Warren DeMontague]

71. Denali

[NanceGreggs]

79. At what point will some people here admit ...

... that there is no "Hillary problem"?

I've been reading about the big "Hillary problem" since before she even announced. There is a certain contingent here that lost no time in jumping on the "Hillary can't win" bandwagon before there even was a bandwagon to jump on.

And that same contingent has whinged incessantly from day one - her announcement video was all wrong, her campaign logo sent the wrong message, her "baggage" is too overwhelming, her position on every issue is wrong-headed - the list goes on.

The truth of the matter is that HRC's poll numbers are fantastic, her supporters are legion, she is one of the most admired and respected people in the country - and the world at large. She has consistently polled well against all possible Clown Car candidates, and has the majority of Democrats in her camp.

In short, the "Hillary problem" is a meaningless meme being promoted by people who want there to be one - and their reason for wanting it is as transparent as it is laughable.

[HappyPlace]

82. Don't get me started about her introductory "me me me" video.

You nailed it, Nance.

It has been filled with fail since the beginning, since before the beginning.

That sniper fire thing, for example.

She cannot be believed. How you can defend her is beyond me.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/mar/25/hillary-clinton/video-shows-tarmac-welcome-no-snipers/

[L0oniX]

84. Nailed it!

[TheKentuckian]

85. Nevah!!! Evah!!!! They will just bash the evil liberals and commence to propping up Cuomo and/or

the Castros while pushing Chelsea to pick up the Clinton mantle.