I'm starting to think that Americans aren't ready for a female president

[fried eggs]

It seems like people are bending over backwards to attack Hillary and get a male nominee. You have democrats out there piling on over the non-existent email "scandal." Now there's 24-7 speculation about Biden running. I can't think of a single person who's eager to see him run. This is what sexism looks like, folks!

[leveymg]

1. Just not that one.

[elleng]

6. Right

[HooptieWagon]

12. Agreed.

The opposition to Clinton isn't her gender, it's her politics and the feeling that Wall St is once again forcing a corporatist candidate on us. Warren would be enthusiastically accepted.

[VanillaRhapsody]

15. Rioooght....there is no sexism involved AT ALL!

[bvf]

30. I guess we have rampant sexism to thank

for Obama's first term as president.

Clearly, the nation wasn't ready for a female VP.

Really, your argument is just as goofy, but go right ahead.

[VanillaRhapsody]

36. You really believe there is no sexism? Not even

At DU?

[Bonobo]

37. You really believe that all the talk about Sanders supporters also supporting Warren is BS?

If it's true, it kinda shoots the sexism theory to hell, don't it?

[virtualobserver]

79. exactly....I was so very "Ready for Warren"

issues and record matter.....

I "hate" Hillary's stance on a number of issues. I'm tired of the policies that she refuses to support that are currently "bashing" the American people.

[hifiguy]

182. If Warren had run and Sanders hadn't

I would be supporting her every bit as enthusiastically and vocally as I am supporting Sanders.

It's the POLICIES, people.

[virtualobserver]

184. I would have experienced an extra thrill that she would be the first woman President....

but my enthusiasm is equally intense for both. I'm still hoping for a VP slot for her.

[hifiguy]

185. Couldn't agree more.

I think she wants to stay in the Senate, though. She's definitely a thoroughly worthy successor to Ted Kennedy, and those are mighty big shoes to fill.

[bvf]

42. I didn't say that, but keep at that straw man of yours.

[VanillaRhapsody]

62. Nothing straw about it....in fact

Some women have institutionalized thinking and they too wont vote for a woman as a result.

Do you think all racists sexists and homophobes are consciously aware that they are?

[bvf]

74. 100% straw. Sorry that even pictures don't work for you.

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. Nope where is this straw tou speak of?

[earthside]

52. DU is ALL sexism; ALL the time ...

... if one even just looks askance at Hillary.

Right?

[Cal33]

49. Nobody denies that racism exists here, yet Obama was elected president. I think the

same applies to sexism. It exists with many, but that is not the main reason why
Clinton lost her bid for the presidency in 2008. My opinion is that Clinton carries
too much political baggage, plus her Middle-of-the-Road political views...etc...

So, I believe sexism can (and does) exist, but it isn't strong enough to prevent a
woman from being elected president. Sexism and electing a female president can
co-exist -- just as racism and electing a black president does.

I am for Sanders, but if Clinton should win the Democratic nomination, I would vote
for her in Nov. 2016.

[bvf]

57. I was actually referring to the 2007 GE

in which blatant sexism against Palin kept the White House out of McCain's reach. Should've gone with the sarcasm thingie, in retrospect.

Overall, I'm in agreement with you though.

[VanillaRhapsody]

59. OMG Palin?

[bvf]

71. I just enjoy seeing you banging your head cartoon-style.

Don't stop on my account, but make time to work on your reading comprehension and sensitivity to nuance, OK?

OK!

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. I comprehended quite well.

They did not lose because of sexism aimed at Palin....

Ridiculous statement

[bvf]

77. You're not getting it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

80. No I m a female...

I kinda think I do actually
..

[bvf]

81. Did anyone ask?

[VanillaRhapsody]

84. Is that how you handle racism?

Tell them thier personal experiences doesn't matter to a discussion on race?

[VanillaRhapsody]

82. Is this what you tell Black people too?

"You just don't get it"?

What makes you think YOU understand the subject better than those who experience it first hand?

[bvf]

86. Do you always

misquote people? I said, "You're not getting it"--an obvious reference to your seeming inability to read what you've posted here.

You know those straws you're grasping? They're needed elsewhere.

[VanillaRhapsody]

92. You seemed to be saying that YOU get it but me being a female

And all I don't....

In a discussion of racism....do you tell a Black person "you just don't get it"?

No you dont....but because it is a discussion on sexism.....I am just supposed to defer to your vast knowledge of the subject huh?

Nope nothing sexist about THAT at all.

[bvf]

99. I neither knew nor cared about your personal demographic

profile until you chose to divulge a particular in the complete absence of interrogation.

Guess what: I can call Sarah Palin an idiot because she is one. Does that brand me as a sexist?

[VanillaRhapsody]

100. Perhaps you should have cared

John McCain is a sexist BECAUSE he picked her!

[bvf]

107. That wasn't the question.

Was Walter Mondale a sexist?

(You may have to look this one up, seeing as you haven't volunteered your age without anyone asking.)

I'll try to check back later for your next non-answer, but I'm not making any promises.

[VanillaRhapsody]

110. Probably....most men were in those days...

Are you going to bring up that she volunteered for him as a 17 yr old? She wasnt running for office for crying out loud.

Do you think women have never worked or volunteered for sexist males campaigns before for some strange reason?

[VanillaRhapsody]

60. And you just outted yourself

How you can say that just blows the mind. Sexism was why John McCain lost?

[bvf]

64. Sure. Why the fuck not?

The argument is no less valid than yours.

You see that, right?

[VanillaRhapsody]

73. You see this is not FOX news

You dont get an alternative truth...

[bvf]

83. What truth is that?

[VanillaRhapsody]

85. That yes sexism IS part of the discussion...

That it IS as Rachel Maddow puts it "a thing".And yes....many that like to think they are not sexist....in fact really are....some who even proclaim they are feminists actilually are.....some right here on DU.

If sexism weren't a problem.....women would't be the LEAST represented demographic in government.

We are AT LEAST half the population....females in govt positions? Lets just guess...oh 10% represented. If all things really were equal WE would be 50 percent of Congress and Senate. We ALSO had to be given the "Right to vote" about 100 years ago.....and still we do NOT have a female President nor anywhere close to fair representation......

So dont you dare try "schooling" me on sexism in American politics....I am living it.

[bvf]

95. Nobody said otherwise.

Did sexism play a role in McCain's 2007 White House loss, owing to the electorate's distaste for the prospect of a female VP?

Or was it just that she's a complete idiot?

Think about that before you answer. I honestly don't think you'll be able to without yet another deliberate misquote or straw man.

[VanillaRhapsody]

98. Minimizing it doesnt help

No my friend...McCain was losing before he picked her....

It was sexism THAT he picked her.....he did it to try to take female votes from Hillary......THT is where the sexism in her candidacy occurred.

[bvf]

101. So you can't answer the question.

Deflect, I already know you can do, and it's gotten stale.

[VanillaRhapsody]

102. What question?

The sexism was that she was selected.....a highly unqualified and unprepared female....as in ANY female would do....to try and win some female votes away from Hillary Clinton.The Palin pick was sexism from the very root.

He was going to lose even before her.....she was a hail mary play.

[Ichingcarpenter]

108. So after the conclusion of the Democratic convention McCain chose Palin

''to try and win some female votes away from Hillary Clinton'' who wasn't running for president since she lost the nomination months before?...

Well that's a spin of yarn I hadn't heard before.





McCain then announced plans to reveal his running mate the day following the conclusion of the Democratic National Convention, and just a few days before the start of the Republican National Convention

[VanillaRhapsody]

123. Its exactly what happened....they were assuming

Hillary was going to be VP pick. And sonce some Republican voting women crossed over to vote for the female candidate....Palin was their solution....or so they thought. That is why she was never vetted properly. They were looking for someone...anyone with a vagina.

Why do you think Republicans have Fiorina running now?

[nadinbrzezinski]

130. So Carly Fiorina, who ran for governor and for a senate seat (and lost) is

Last edited Fri Sep 4, 2015, 08:09 PM - Edit history (2)

running due to her vagina and not her naked ambition. You realize how sexist that reads? Just saying.

By the way, Fiorina can be rather nice in person... she did try hard to get the Governorship from Brown, and did show up to a few events even in a town nobody does Hey, it's part of the job.

[VanillaRhapsody]

132. Yes....

She is in there for the same reason Ben Carson is and Herman Cain before him too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

143. So Republcians went out and asked them because one is black and the other has a vagina

apart of the fact that this is quite racist and sexist, a twofer, you have no idea why people decide to run... really you don't And this goes for both parties. People actually make that decision, and party pooobahs do not ask outsiders (that be both Fiorina and Carson) to run for things like the Presidency. Local committees at times will ask them to run for city council though, maybe state office, judges definitely. More rarely, for a federal office. The Presidency... no not really, And neither of the is expected to do well since they have like zero experience in government. Nor is their turn. This Trump and now Carson is really throwing a real monkey wrench in how the party selects people to run incidentally.

People who run form exploratory committees who go about finding those who will fund their campaigns. Why people are funding Carson and Fiorina has not one bit to do with melanin content or internal plumbing. And all to do with politics and what they could potentially do for them if they should win. Yeah, yeah quid pro quo is technically illegal, but it goes on all the time, Good luck proving it.

The same goes for Democrats by the way. They are also bought and sold by powerful moneyed interesest and in the age of citizens united it is going to get even worst,

But hey, if you want to continue gnawing at that racist and sexist bone... by all means, I ain't gonna stop you. Plus I have things to do in this reality.

[Ichingcarpenter]

135. He picked Sarah after Obama had already picked Biden

get your facts and dates straight. She wasn't even interviewed by Obama for the job, Biden, Bayn and Kaine were

[VanillaRhapsody]

136. Yes....because they assumed Clinton would be VP

I have my timeline straight. Perhaps you remember there were many pissed off HRC supporters....many of them were former Republican voters....McCain sought to capitilize on that....hence why he selected but didnt fully vett Palin.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

142. As far as I can tell, you're arguing with a broken algorithm.

[LondonReign2]

174. Yup, that algorithim spins in circles and always sure it posts last

[SMC22307]

131. Do you seriously believe that the fire-breathing women of DU...

don't like Hillary because... she's a woman?

Click your heels together a few more times and maybe it will come true.

[VanillaRhapsody]

133. Yes I do believe some of it is yes..

[Ichingcarpenter]

138. So Women Sander supporters are sexist? Really?

And anti feminists?

[VanillaRhapsody]

139. Guess what.....

There are Republicans on DU posing as Sanders supporters too...GASP!

[Warren DeMontague]

181. That kind of wrap is just the best...

[VanillaRhapsody]

187. Sure there isn't! I am not the ONLY one that thinks so by the way....

THAT is how hard it is beginning to become distinguishing some around here...


but I have yet to have heard one HRC supporter say that they WON'T vote for him even if he does win the Primary. I have heard many Sanders supporters say that about her...... Now I am not saying that ALL I have heard say that are of that persuasion, judges.....but I am pretty convinced....some are!

Are you denying there are such things as "sock puppets" exist here too? If Sock puppets exist...what in the world makes you think there aren't a number of posters who came here by way of "FreeRepublic" or "Redstate" as Agent Provocateurs? Do you think they are ABOVE doing such a thing? Now if they wanted to cause dissension in the ranks here, create some chaos...who do you think they would attack?....and who would they pretend to be, to do so? Which candidate is the person they hate most in this world besides maybe Barack Obama and Bill Clinton?

Not all Rightwingers are too dumb to figure out how to blend here....they do it often just for grins and giggles....they go back to their little "bat enclaves" and brag about their exploits here on DU! You can bet on that.....have you not seen their little blog sites criticizing members of DU? Making fun of the most prolific posters here? You think they are not also some gaming enthusiasts and do not understand "Game Theory" enough to make themselves for example "Griefers" just to stir up shit here?

I happen to think so....

[Warren DeMontague]

188. "I have yet to have heard one HRC supporter say that they WON'T vote for her even if she does win

the Primary."


That sentence doesn't make any sense.

I will support the Nominee, I've always supported the nominee, I've said up and down that I'll support HRC if she's the nominee. I can't speak for anyone else.

That said, it's ridiculous to assert that there only seems to be widespread support for Sanders on DU because of "right wing trolls". RW trolls and sock puppets do exist, in fact there are certain groups on DU that I think are 90% one person talking to themselves, most of the time.... zombies, too- I think some of our more prolific GDP OP starters who supposedly have only been here a month or two.... yeah, right.

But there is general, wide support for Sanders on DU among people -good progressive Democrats- who have been here a VERY long time, and it's not because they've been in RW stealth mode for a decade just waiting for their chance to capsize teh SS Hillary.

[VanillaRhapsody]

189. Okay I made a mistake....I have yet to hear ONE HRC supporter say that they won't vote for him in

the General.....even if he wins the Primary!

Sorry I rewrote it twice and pasted in the wrong words...

fixed....

Now in response....then it wasn't about YOU!

Are you trying to say just because YOU have never said those words...there aren't those on dU who have?

You really think there are no Rightwingers on DU?????

[VanillaRhapsody]

190. and I didn't say...

"seems to be widespread support for Sanders on DU because of "right wing trolls"."


I am saying there are enough to make a difference in how it appears here! Especially since "here" does not reflect reality very well......this place is in NO WAY a mirror image of the General Voting Public out there....in fact far from it.

[Warren DeMontague]

192. I also didn't say there are no RW trolls on DU. Clearly there are.

But I think they're actively engaged in disruption for its own sake, and as such I suspect they're evenly spread out among all the different candidates' "supporters".

[VanillaRhapsody]

193. and if they were here to cause trouble....who do you think they would align with?

Who do Rightwingers hate with a purple passion....above nearly all others? Clearly....that person is Hillary Rodham Clinton....they have hated her guts since she had the temerity to stand up and demand Universal Healthcare....who did they hate more when she spoke before the U.N. in China...even before her husband the President had appeared before the U.N.....who....who "stood by her man" when they were all hypocritically accusing him of being a "philanderer in Chief" and wouldn't allow herself be used by their diabolical plan to destroy her husband with a sexual peccadillo?

They would far far and far more, rather face Bernie Sanders (besides he is a White guy...that would almost be a victory to them) then Hillary Rodham Clinton whom they have heard will beat their asses next election for the past 8 yrs at least! She has been "rammed down their throats".....they already had to accept "that Black guy" in "their" White House.....how do you think they feel about seeing her...and HIM....her husband back there?

Face it man...they HATE her GUTS!....and that is why they are hiding among your ranks as wolfs in sheeps clothing.

[VanillaRhapsody]

58. Are you a female?

Because if you were you would realize that is ridiculous.There ARE sexist Democratic men too....who wont vote for a woman. Do you think all racists admit they are racist? No they dont...in fact they will flat out deny they are. They just do not have the self awareness....well the same exists with sexism.....and yes iy is significant enough to effect outcomes....do not kid yourself.

[Cal33]

159. No. I'm a male. I agree, there are sexist Democratic men too. No, not all racists admit they are

racist.

I also believe that as far as the human condition is concerned, 0% or 100% of any human
quality can hardly exist. It's a question of degree, of more or less. One can have a
quality to a high degree, and repression will block the little bit of the opposite from
consciousness. But this little bit is still there. However, this individual feels totally aligned
with his/her one direction only.

It isn't even necessary to be 100% anti-sexist to think and behave like one.

[VanillaRhapsody]

163. NONE of them admit they are racists...to a one they won't

I have had them tell me to my face they are not a racist and use the N-word in the same sentence....more than once!

But let me see if I understand the other comment....lets try a different term

"it isn't even necessary to be 100% "anti-racist" to think and behave like one?"


so I am not sure I understand you stance here? Please elaborate...I am very curious what you mean...

[JTFrog]

78. Sexism isn't strong enough to prevent a woman from being elected president.....

As evidenced by 225 years of US History.

[VanillaRhapsody]

87. Unadulterated hogwash what 225 yrs are YOU

Talking about....WE had to be GIVEN the Right to vote...

Im fact my Grandmother was born before we got it.....thats just 2 generations ahead of me!

[JTFrog]

118. You could try toning it down a bit on people who are on your side.

And obviously I was talking about over 225 years of sexist history in this country. Fighting for the right to vote included. Still fighting to ratify the ERA. Pointing out the ridiculousness of those who spout there is no sexism. And imo those that say they can't be sexist because they would vote for Warren sound an awful lot like those who say they can't be racist cause they have a black friend.

[VanillaRhapsody]

127. Tone it down?

Why does the truth hurt? You sat right there and proclaimed 225 years of America proves there is no sexism in American politics. (When obviously the fact that we are far far far under represented in politics exists)...I should just "tone it down". I am sure that is what they told Susan B. Anthony too......"now just tone it down there sister"

"Sit down and shut up female....how dare you try to explain 225 years of sexism to me"? "I mean what could YOU a female possibily know about it"?

I almost fell out of my chair when you brought up 225 yrs....perhaps it has been fair to YOUR demographic.....but not so much for many of the other demographics in this country.

[BooScout]

140. um VR...

She was being sarcastic. The rolling eyes tells me she agrees that sexism is alive and thriving....this is why I like to use this emoticon >>>> to make myself perfectly clear.

[VanillaRhapsody]

141. Um that emoticon usually means something

Else entirely.....the sarcasm emticon would have been a better choice....after all there were positions just that ignorant being lobbed at me in that conversation.

[BooScout]

146. she was rolling her eyes to mean she was sarcastic...

She is a feminist. She is not misogynic or sexist I assure you.

[JTFrog]

144. Thank you for getting it.

The hostility here is becoming unbearable.

[VanillaRhapsody]

151. unh "tone it down"?

answer no I won't...its because we don't stand up to these fallacies that we are still here...

[JTFrog]

153. Fine, yell at me all you want.

It is definitely your prerogative.

But as has been pointed out to you several times now, you are barking up the wrong tree. I'm fairly well known for standing up against sexism here. Your misinterpretation of one emoticon is seriously making any discussion with you unpalatable.

[VanillaRhapsody]

156. Then use the right emoticon and or more words....otherwise how the hell do you expect

me to know what your positions are? I WAS in a conversation with sexists myself.... I do not know you personally....how would I know what you stand for? Were you afraid to push back at them any harder than that little eye rolling thing? Perhaps you should stop "toning it down" yourself?

But no I am not "toning it down". I don't pull punches....If you agreed with me nice.....I apologized for that....but not for being upset with the "tone it down" retort....

[JTFrog]

157. I can no longer take you seriously.

Have a good day.

[JTFrog]

145. I did no such thing.

Please reread the post you just replied to again....beyond the subject line.

[VanillaRhapsody]

152. I read "tone it down" for standing up to them...

and my response to that...I will NOT apologize for. Its BECAUSE we are women and DO "tone it down" that we are still here! We women are the WORST represented in govt demographic....BECAUSE we are so willing to just "tone it down". We need to stand up and push back too!

[JTFrog]

154. You appear to just want to fight.

I am merely letting you know, again, you are fighting with the wrong person. No one will back you up more than me when it comes to the necessity of screaming about sexism from the top of your lungs.

But I don't appreciate your trying to pick a fight with someone who was just trying to have your back in the first place.

[VanillaRhapsody]

160. Sexism? You damn Skippy....

Then perhaps you should have been more succinct about it....I apologized for misunderstanding that....but not my reaction to the "tone it down" comment.

[LondonReign2]

176. Awesome. You've driven away someone that WAS ON YOUR SIDE

Keep going, this is fun.

[Cal33]

166. I wasn't referring to the past. Yes, the whole world was, and most of it still is, male

oriented. Only beginning some 50 years ago did one nation and then another start
to have a female president or prime minister: Israel, Pakistan (surprisingly enough),
The Philippines, UK.......

In the entire history of the world there have been only a few civilizations where the
society was female dominated -- and these didn't last very long.

We humans are still being mostly dominated by primitive drives and instincts -- like
"might is right." Brutal physical force is less frequently in the open today, but a
more subtle and sophisticated form of it is quite fashionable. A high percentage of
corporate CEOs are sociopaths, for example. They can be very polite in speech and
manner, but they can also cause severe harm and damage to their fellow human
beings by the millions, and feel quite happy about it.

[VanillaRhapsody]

168. Then what do you mean?

I am referring to the continuation of it....and it IS still effecting even THIS election! The United States has STILL never had a female President....even THOUGH women are over half the population....we are by far the MOST underserved demographic of them all! We are far far far under represented in our own government.

And compared to other nations, the United States is losing ground. America now ranks ninety-eighth in the world for percentage of women in its national legislature, down from 59th in 1998. That’s embarrassing: just behind Kenya and Indonesia, and barely ahead of the United Arab Emirates. Only five governors are women, including just one Democrat, and twenty-four states have never had a female governor. The percentage of women holding statewide and state legislative offices is less than 25 percent, barely higher than in 1993. Locally, only twelve of our 100 largest cities have female mayors.

The reality is that at the current glacial rate of progress, “women won’t achieve fair representation for nearly 500 years,” says Cynthia Terrell, chair of FairVote’s “Representation 2020” project, which has released a new study on women’s representation.

and THIS ^^^ is why I am NOT "toning it down"! We are losing ground not gaining by "toning down" our demands for equal treatment in our own country! Behind Kenya and Indonesia???? I just came back from a month long stay in Kenya.... MY god its even WORSE than even I thought!

Why Does the US Still Have So Few Women in Office?
At the current rate of progress, it will take nearly 500 years for women to reach fair representation in government.

http://www.thenation.com/article/why-does-us-still-have-so-few-women-office/

[Cal33]

179. I mean that, yes, sexism exists in the US here today, but it is no longer strong enough

to prevent a female from becoming president the way it did in the past.

If Elizabeth Warren were running right now, I strongly feel that she would
become the next president, for the simple reason that more people would
vote for her, because what she would be fighting for is what most Americans
want. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, will attract fewer votes. Both
are women. It's no longer a question of sexism here. It's a question of
which individual will attract more votes based on how attractive her political
views are to most people.

[VanillaRhapsody]

198. BALONEY it is so....

WTF!!!

In case you missed your chance of reading this....

And compared to other nations, the United States is losing ground. America now ranks ninety-eighth in the world for percentage of women in its national legislature, down from 59th in 1998. That’s embarrassing: just behind Kenya and Indonesia, and barely ahead of the United Arab Emirates. Only five governors are women, including just one Democrat, and twenty-four states have never had a female governor. The percentage of women holding statewide and state legislative offices is less than 25 percent, barely higher than in 1993. Locally, only twelve of our 100 largest cities have female mayors.


Do not presume to think you have some inside knowledge on this issue....because obviously you don't

Just in this thread ALONE I have had to repeatedly defend Hillary Clinton's record and legitimacy as a "potential President".....and that is on a supposed Democratic Forum! One having the temerity to say that she ONLY has her husband to thank for her career and candidacy! (thankfully for once that got a hide!).

So you are wrong wrong wrong....if you think it is an easy feat for Hillary Clinton to become President even these days.....that is so very far from the truth. Here is some truth for you....IF she were to lose....I am resigned to the fact that along with my grandmother....I am not likely to see another woman become POTUS in my lifetime.....BECAUSE it took one with a record like hers.....and there are so few few few women who hold office now....as exemplified in the above paragraph! The chances of one of those few few female politicians rising up to the level of being considered legitimate enough to be considered are very slim.

[Cal33]

200. I agree. It's quite possible that it will be a long time before another female would run

for president. And right now there are two possibilities, one of whom, Elizabeth, has
decided not to run. So, although sexism is present in this country, it is no longer
strong enough to prevent a woman for running for president, like it used to be in
the past.

[Cal33]

201. Hi Vanilla:

V: And compared to other nations, the United States is losing ground. America now ranks ninety-eighth in the world for percentage of women in its national legislature, down from 59th in 1998. That’s embarrassing: just behind Kenya and Indonesia, and barely ahead of the United Arab Emirates. Only five governors are women, including just one Democrat, and twenty-four states have never had a female governor. The percentage of women holding statewide and state legislative offices is less than 25 percent, barely higher than in 1993. Locally, only twelve of our 100 largest cities have female mayors.

C: Yes, we are becoming more and more a dictatorship, and less and less a democracy. It doesn't look good at all. One
hopeful spot is that today more women are going to college than men. So there is a good chance that we will have more
women holding political positions in the future. Today the Dem. Party has more women holding high positions than the
Rep. Party does.

V: Do not presume to think you have some inside knowledge on this issue....because obviously you don't.

C: No. I don't have any inside knowledge.

V: Just in this thread ALONE I have had to repeatedly defend Hillary Clinton's record and legitimacy as a "potential President".....and that is on a supposed Democratic Forum! One having the temerity to say that she ONLY has her husband to thank for her career and candidacy! (thankfully for once that got a hide!).

C: I agree Hillary has the legitimacy to become president of the U.S. So does Elizabeth Warren. It so happens that I
prefer Elizabeth, but she ain't running. I am backing Sanders now because his political views are so much like
those of Elizabeth.

V: So you are wrong wrong wrong....if you think it is an easy feat for Hillary Clinton to become President even these days.....that is so very far from the truth. Here is some truth for you....IF she were to lose....I am resigned to the fact that along with my grandmother....I am not likely to see another woman become POTUS in my lifetime.....BECAUSE it took one with a record like hers.....and there are so few few few women who hold office now....as exemplified in the above paragraph! The chances of one of those few few female politicians rising up to the level of being considered legitimate enough to be considered are very slim.

C: I never said it was an easy feat for Hillary to become President. You are ascribing to me something that was written by
someone else. I'm mainly interested in voting for president someone who has political views very similar to mine. It
doesn't matter to me whether it's a man or a woman. Elizabeth and Bernie both fill the bill, as far as I am concerned. I am
glad that one of them is running. However, as I've written before, if Hillary should win the Democratic Primaries, I would
vote for her over any Republican.

[VanillaRhapsody]

202. Yes....you did....

You blew off HRC becoming President like America has been on the verge of a Female President for decades now....

And as I have shown above....America has most certainly NOT been.

And SHOULD HRC not win...it is highly likely that I too will die without ever seeing a Female President in MY lifetime too....fully 3 generations died out after obtaining the vote not to see that!

Its NOT trivial.....

[Cal33]

203. Show me where I "blew off HRC becoming president...."

[elehhhhna]

158. I'm a woman. I think "wife of a president" is the most sexist way to qualify.

How the fuck is that a qualifying experience? Plus oops she's a craven corporatist and always has been. She'd also super inauthentic. Just no.

[VanillaRhapsody]

199. And did I say that? No quite the opposite...

It appears to me that is what YOU and your friends on this thread are saying not I!

Here for your edification...

http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

I suggest you read up on the actual record of our next President before you start lobbing inaccuracies in my direction as if that is what I said.....no in fact it is what YOU think!

[rock]

88. That's just what a sexist would say

[VanillaRhapsody]

94. Well now they are saying McCain lost

because of sexism.....so you be the judge...

[bvf]

111. SMH.

[VanillaRhapsody]

112. Indeed "they" are

[randys1]

104. sigh

[BuelahWitch]

150. Indeed, it's the ideas, not the gender. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

171. Oh really...that is all? I think you are woefully misinformed about how bad it really is...

And compared to other nations, the United States is losing ground. America now ranks ninety-eighth in the world for percentage of women in its national legislature, down from 59th in 1998. That’s embarrassing: just behind Kenya and Indonesia, and barely ahead of the United Arab Emirates. Only five governors are women, including just one Democrat, and twenty-four states have never had a female governor. The percentage of women holding statewide and state legislative offices is less than 25 percent, barely higher than in 1993. Locally, only twelve of our 100 largest cities have female mayors.

The reality is that at the current glacial rate of progress, “women won’t achieve fair representation for nearly 500 years,” says Cynthia Terrell, chair of FairVote’s “Representation 2020” project, which has released a new study on women’s representation.

http://www.thenation.com/article/why-does-us-still-have-so-few-women-office/

[AtomicKitten]

27. Exactly.

[JackInGreen]

2. Aaah

Up here in Washington or in one of our other green states. I learned a long time ago fr-eggy, don't smoke and post.

[AgingAmerican]

34. True that

nt

[artislife]

3. We tried to Draft a great woman.

I don't think it is the fact that H is a woman that is the reason she has detractors.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. My mind boggles at the contortions I would have been forced to go through, if Warren had gotten in.

Especially after I said up and down how much I'd like to see her run.

Yes, I would really have had to stretch, to figure out a way to justify what would have been my inevitable, knee-jerk opposition to her candidacy.

Because really, what it is deep down is sexist panic in my man-parts at the thought of a woman- ANY woman- running this country.

[artislife]

25. *chortle

According to some, I am a own gender hating woman. Even though. I have voted for women to be senators and a governor.

[Warren DeMontague]

26. I didn't want Sarah Palin to be Vice President in 2008.

Fine, I admit it.

[Art_from_Ark]

28. I voted for Geraldine Ferraro in 1984

I would have been happy to vote for Elizabeth Warren.
I would love to have a Congress full of Bella Abzugs, Shirley Chisholms, and Margaret Chase Smiths.
But I prefer Bernie to anyone else among the Democratic presidential candidates.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Yeah, I wanted Warren to run. I still wish Al Gore would consider getting back in, too.

I also think we REALLY need to expand our bench, that's pretty apparent from the relative lack of names. Although nothing will preclude Warren from running in the future, of course.

I think Kamala Harris may be one to watch, down the road, too.



I was too young to vote against Reagan, sadly. I cast my first vote in a Presidential election for Dukakis.

I told my kid that the other day, and he said "....was he the little guy in the tank"?


Poor Dukakis, never got away from that one.

[davidpdx]

32. I agree with you on Warren, that would have been nice

but like I said in my post to OP we can't force her to run. We can't force anyone to run if they don't want to. There are several women who I think would be great. I agree with you that Kamala Harris is one to watch.

[Cal33]

50. I didn't either. In fact, I didn't want her to run for any office at all -- not even

for dogcatcher. But I would have loved to vote for Elizabeth Warren as president.

[VanillaRhapsody]

172. Yes it is....

http://www.thenation.com/article/why-does-us-still-have-so-few-women-office/

[BlueCaliDem]

4. In a country where women still aren't equal to men (pay, promotion, opportunities, respect)

does this really surprise you?

On the other hand, women show very little compassion for their own gender.

And as for someone who's eager to see Joe run? Look at my sig line. However, I'm realistic. He just lost a beloved son. The usual and proper time for mourning publicly is a year. I don't see Joe Biden running now, but I (selfishly) keep the hope that he will, and until he finally says he won't run, my sig line won't change.

[elleng]

5. It's not sexism,

it's on the merits. No need to fabricate excuses.

[fried eggs]

7. I'd like to think that, but the the excuses

I've heard are really lame and not adding up.

[elleng]

8. Haven't heard such, fortunately.

THIS, however: 'Think about what is at stake here: CIA, MIC,etc,
not just some social problems.'

[VanillaRhapsody]

16. Havent heard much...

My Aunt Fanny!

[Warren DeMontague]

20. we need excuses not to support Hillary?

She needs to earn our support, just like any other primary candidate.

That's called equality.

[davidpdx]

33. + 10,000

[AgingAmerican]

35. It's hard to earn anything while sleepwalking

I believe her, "Sleepwalk to inevitable victory" plan is beginning to come apart at the seams.

[jwirr]

122. In your opinion were the DU members who now

support candidates other than Hillary sexist before the primary discussion started? Were they against corporate control before she announced her run? Were they against corporate money in politics before she started running? Were they sexist when they agreed with Elizabeth Warren?

When there are a number of candidates in the primary we have a choice based on issues. Very few are looking at gender at all. I for one am a Bernie supporter because of his stance on issues. O'Malley is my second choice because of the same reason. Hillary comes in third even though I do not like most of her stances and because she has helped to do things in the past that have hurt me and my family. I would vote for her because of women's issues but that is about all. I hope that it does not come down to the last two candidates.

I think that this is a really false accusation, a desperate accusation.

[Trajan]

124. Hear hear ...

A voice of wisdom ...

Had nothing to do with gender, but, instead, this is an effort to purposely conflate Hillary's disapproval in DU as some sort of misogynist ploy ...

[LondonReign2]

177. You mean excuses like her support of TPP, Keystone, and vote for the Iraq War?

Those lame excuses?

[restorefreedom]

9. on the right, most definitely.

the wing nuts can't stand the idea, i am sure.

but over here, it is not a gender issue. it's all about policy. she is the wrong candidate imo, male or female makes no diff.

[VanillaRhapsody]

17. Oh no....no sexism at DU at all!

[restorefreedom]

45. sure, there might be a few leftie sexists

but every discussion i see from people not supporting Hillary has to do with her policies. Her support of the Iraq war, her support of the TPP and the Keystone XL pipeline, a relationship with the banks, watering down the proposed $15 an hour minimum wage, a hard line on iran almost hawish, her donor base being made up primarily of corporate bigwigs and tax cheats, etc etc etc. I've seen not a single post about her being unqualified because of her gender at least not here.

[VanillaRhapsody]

97. Of course because every sexist I know

Last edited Fri Sep 4, 2015, 12:57 PM - Edit history (1)

Proudly proclaims that they are..(facetious)..and will attack her for being a female right out in open forums.

Trust me when I tell you.....there are those in the ranks of the Anti-Hillary crowd...who are parroting your talking points....but are indeed sexist...most dont even know that they are. There are even females that have institutionalized thinking and after having been subjected to a lifetime of braiinwashing who will view other women less favorably or more harshly as a result. In fact it is the only explanation for why WE are the most poorly represented demographic in governtment. Afterall....we are over half the population.....yet how few females have poitions of power? Do you also think its coincidental in the private sector? Well it also isnt coincidental in government either.

[restorefreedom]

120. i am not going to argue that sexism is no more, obviously that is not true,

but when people iterate very clear policy issues of hillary's that are problematic, i don't know how someone else can come along and say , "sure there are real issues there, but they are sexist too" especially when we are interacting online and don't know each other.

it is a big leap to make imo

[seaglass]

61. Although there are many sexists on DU and they do tend to be Sanders supporters, I do not

believe the majority of DU sexists are against Hillary because of her gender (it's just an added benefit in opposing her). I think if Hillary wasn't in the race they would still be supporting Sanders.

I do believe on the right side of the aisle that Hillary's gender is an issue.

[restorefreedom]

67. as a sanders supporter,

i have read many, many posts criticizing hillary. not one single overt or covert reference to her gender. not one.

your contention that the sexists on du are sanders supporters is flat out incorrect, imo. there are people with passionate, even rabid, disagreements with hillary on the issues. i am one of them. doesn't make us sexist.

if hillary needs to trot out the "they hate me because i am a woman" falsehood, then she is an even weaker candidate than i previously thought. she has been flotus, senator, and sos. and now because she is sinking in the polls people want to blame sexism. nope, not buying. she is too strong a person and too successful previously for that to even be a remote possibility, imo.

[seaglass]

91. You're not getting it. I did not say being a Sanders supporter = sexist. I did not say opposing

Hillary = sexist. I said that the people on DU who are sexist are tending to be in the Sanders camp. Perhaps you have no clue who on DU is sexist. and it's possible you missed the whole NYC_SKP twists and turns and justifications by Sanders supporters when he called Hillary a c*nt.

There is no "they hate me because I am a woman" being trotted out by Hillary, your imagination is running away with you.

[restorefreedom]

119. i think it incorrect to conclude

that the majority of sexists are sanders supporters. i have seen no evidence of it. as to the nycskip business, i have no idea what you are talking about.

and from what i have been able to glean, i am glad i don't know any more about that episode. a few sexists who happen to be sanders supporters does mean the rest of any sexists are for sanders. and i would assume no sexists would be supporting hillary.

[seaglass]

125. If I hadn't observed it and was also unfamiliar with the "nycskp business" I might come

to the same conclusion you have.

[restorefreedom]

170. i will stay happily ignorant of "the business"

cuz it does not sound good.

[yeoman6987]

65. The right would vote for Sarah in droves

Luckily we don't need to test it. Sarah is not qualified to be president.

[restorefreedom]

69. very true

their wingnuttery seems to be equal opportunity.

[jfern]

10. I'm ready for a President with good positions on the issues

And that's Sanders with whom we have running. If the top 2 candidate were Warren and Biden, you can bet I'd be supporting Warren.

[CBGLuthier]

11. It has never, for me, been about her gender.

It is about her. Ann Richards would have made a great president. Elizabeth Warren will make a great president. Making it about her gender is bullshit.

[earthside]

54. I don't want another Nixon.

It isn't about gender ... I can't count the number of women candidates I have supported and worked for over the last four decades it has been so many.

Hillary has Nixonian characteristics, in my estimation. And I don't want another Richard Nixon, male or female.

[Ino]

13. nonsense

You're bending over backwards to ignore the very many policy issues that people have with Hillary. It's ridiculous to think that all those reasons are just smokescreen for the REAL issue... a SEXIST one.

I'm sure there are some who oppose her just because she's a woman... just as there are some who want her to be president just because she's a woman. I suspect those who think everyone opposing Hillary are sexist are themselves reverse sexists.

I would vote for Warren in a heartbeat. Hillary, no. How do you explain that?

[Warren DeMontague]

19. OP says that everybody wants Biden to run and nobody wants Biden to run

at the same time.

It's SEXISM, I tells ya!

[Armstead]

14. Are YOU ready for a President Carly Fiorina?

Gender is neither an automatic qualifier or disqualifier.

Apart from some comparatively small percentage of Neanderthals, most Americans are ready for a female president.

But whether they support a particular female candidate also depends on the person. And many people are not enthused about Hillary for other reasons.

[ChazII]

68. +1 n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

18. about the only potential candidate I find myself less enthused about than Hillary Clinton, right now

is Joe Biden.

On the other hand, Deez Nuts is looking pretty good.

So maybe you're onto something.

[AZ Progressive]

21. If times were better, having a woman president would be a priority, but these aren't good times...

And the American people are under siege and need an FDR-like president, not an establishment - more of the same that just happens to be a woman.

[eridani]

22. I'd love a woman president that didn't advocate for endless war and letting banksters off the hook

[jfern]

23. Hillary wasn't ready for a female governor

Instead of endorsing the progressive female, Teachout, she endorsed the crappy Cuomo.

[RiverLover]

44. Corporatist first. That wasn't surprising. Just really disappointing.

Teachout would've been great. She'll go for it again, I hope.

[davidpdx]

31. It's purely sexism because people won't vote for Hillary Clinton?

No, you are wrong. It is her policy stances and the fact that she is so close with the big banks. I'll tell you there are several women I'd vote for, they are not running though. I can't force them to run if they don't want to.

I firmly believe there WILL be a female president in my lifetime and I'm in my mid 40's.

[Indepatriot]

38. Prsonally gender has NOTHING to do with my rejection of HRC. If Warren were running I'd phonebank

door knock and travel to other states on my own dime several times. I'd put in several hundred hours of volunteering and miss a week of work days (and pay for those days) to help elect her. I did all of those things to help elect President Obama and will probably do most of the same for Bernie Sanders. I wouldn't lift a finger to help Hillary Clinton. It has NOTHING to do with gender and EVERYTHING to due with her record. Period. My simple summation is this Hillary=Wall Street. Bernie=Main Street. Now where's the thread about HRC supporters being Anti Semites? I mean come on that's gotta be the reason right?

[RiverLover]

39. President Elizabeth Warren sounds good to me!

But not to her, unfortunately.

I'm ready for a female president. But not Clinton.

And btw, the email scandal exists, its serious, and its not going away. Why do you think Joe is considering jumping in?

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. Run Elizabeth Warren

and see what happens. Hillary being female has nothing to do with people not wanting her to be president. Hillary being Hillary Clinton who supports -
The TPP
The XL pipeline
Wall street greedy thugs
Corporations that want to destroy what's left of this country
Wars, Wars and more Wars
The MIC
Fracking

Being female has nothing to do with people's opposition to her. The above issues are what the Republicans support - NOT Democrats.

[beam me up scottie]

41. Not supporting Hillary is an example of sexism.

Criticizing Hillary is sexist, disagreeing with her female supporters is sexist, supporting a male candidate who fought hard for women his entire career is sexist, hell even calling Hillary a chicken is sexist according to her supporters.

Sure does make it easy to dismiss everyone who isn't pro-Hillary, doesn't it?

I know what real sexism is and so does Hillary, and when her supporters keep throwing around these accusations it draws attention away from a very real and important problem that women face every day.

Please stop.

[restorefreedom]

46. + 100 nt

[TransitJohn]

90. Good post.

Nice to see you, bmus!

[LWolf]

43. My 77 yo mom told me, just this week,

that she had so hoped to see a woman president in her life time, and she's sad. Sad because "it won't be Hillary, and she's the only woman running. She just comes with too much baggage." This from a woman whose been a strong Clinton supporter since the first time she saw Bill C. walk on to a screen.

I was sure she'd be supporting Clinton. She'd never even heard of Sanders. After spending some time learning about him, she's going with Sanders.

It's not about gender. It's about issues. That's why so many women, like myself and my mom, are supporting Sanders.

Biden? That's about the neo-liberal wing of the party scrambling for someone to back because they think Hillary is weak. I don't think he's running. If he does, I think he'll split the more conservative vote and Sanders will get the nomination. Of course, I hope he gets it anyway, lol.

Edited to add: I sure as hell home to see a woman president in MY lifetime. I want the RIGHT woman.

[mmonk]

47. Me either or Michele Bachman would clearly be President by now.

[Autumn]

48. I'm ready for a woman President. Hillary is not the one we need at this

critical time. As a lifelong Liberal Democratic woman, I am too fucking smart to chose a President based on gender. Hillary is the one who made the choices that brought up this non-existent email "scandal", she knew the republicans would use it. Poor judgment on her behalf and I am not vested in spending any minute of my time defending her.

[azmom]

51. I'd take Warren and Sanders over

Clinton and Biden any day of the week.

[Cal33]

56. Yep, so would I. Warren and Sanders are like two peas in a pod. I am glad

at least one of them is running.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

53. I'd love to see Warren. I'm ready for an Elizabeth Warren/Barbara Lee ticket.

I'm hoping to see Bernie go to the general with Barbara Lee as his VP slot too.

[Armstead]

70. Barbara Lee's great

[BlueStateLib]

106. Barbara Lee

Barbara Lee: "I've been inspired, uplifted, and downright awestruck by women with the grace and grit to run for office. None more than Hillary Clinton."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbara-lee/four-ways-hillary-clinton_b_7266828.html

[Le Taz Hot]

117. Which means she'd balance the Sanders ticket.

She's the perfect choice and yes, she absolutely would agree to be his running mate. I have no doubt.

[Armstead]

149. And your point is?

She may admire Clinton, and that's fine.

[Trajan]

55. This is a false conclusion

Hey - Let's vote for Phyllis Schafly - SHE'S a woman!

Look ... Many good liberal democrats disagree with Hillary's positions on quite a few issues ... it's about her policies, not her gender. ...

To say otherwise it to purposely conflate the issue

[tularetom]

63. I'm ready for a woman president, but I'm not ready for another Clinton president

And you can call me "sexist" and tell me, "oh, she's strong, she's independent", but I'll never believe he didn't talk her into running to validate his own term in office, which is starting to look like the disaster it actually was. He's still pissed off that she lost to Obama, he took it much harder than she did. And if you believe he can keep his nose out of what goes on in the White House while he's living there, you haven't been paying attention.

She's just going through the motions, her heart isn't really in this. And she hasn't really even attempted to distance her self fro the bad decisions that Bill made as president.

I don't want either one of them to be in a position to make policy anywhere again.

[DonCoquixote]

66. oh contraire

If a Liz Warren, Kathleen Sibelius, Janet Napolitano, a Kristine Gillibrand, or even a Debbie Wasserman Schultz were running, you would not have almost 20 years of Clinton era baggage that leaves a very bitter aftertaste in people's mouths.

Disliking Clinton is NOT sexism, because Hillary Clinton is NOT all womanhood, simple as that. Stop trying to say that he is all womanhood so that you can attack anyone who dislikes her as sexist, especially as there are many women who do not like her as well. That trick caused a lot of scars in 2008, and it can do the same in 2012.

[Romulox]

75. No, not ready for HILLARY. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

89. Rubbish.

[99Forever]

93. Funny stuff friend.

You forgot this:

[Le Taz Hot]

96. I'd vote for Elizabeth Warren

in a heartbeat so, of course, your premise is bullshit.

[Duckhunter935]

103. I am if were

Elizabeth Warren, just not Hillary.

[SouthernProgressive]

105. It becomes very clear when so called progressives call for her to go home to her grandkids...

and that they don't understand her ambition. You are dead on. These people are terrified of powerful and ambitious women.

[Trajan]

114. You are either obtuse or ignorant

And really, if this is your perspective, then it really doesn't matter, because you are so far off the farm, you're swimming in an ocean of self deceit ...

You say you are a southern progressive, yet it is obvious you haven't a clue what that means ...

Hillary is NOT progressive ... Those who promote her candidacy do so knowing she is a centrist at best ...

This little post of yours had earned you a sweet spot on my iggy list ... There is no place for fibbers in my world ...

[SouthernProgressive]

115. Thank you for your kind words. nt.

[Armstead]

148. I think Joe Biden should spend time with his grandchildren, and said so once here

Last I heard Joe is a male.

[jeff47]

109. Would you vote for Palin?

Sometimes, it's about what the candidate stands for. Not the number of X chromosomes.

[dogknob]

113. Hogwash... HRC is biz as usual. I would have gotten behind Warren the day she announced.

[arcane1]

116. That explains the massive effort to convince Warren to run

[Shadowflash]

121. How is

Hillary not being my first choice translate to 'not ready for a female president'?

I'd vote for Elizabeth Warren in a heartbeat.

Hyperbole much?

[Trajan]

126. I'm starting to think

This is simply a sad and pathetic ploy to demean democrats who would have the audacity to choose some other candidate other than your beloved choice ...

I love and respect that Hillary is an amazing woman, yet, her policy positions leave me cold ...

I choose Bernie because his policy choices are better for the community at large ... It really is that simple ...

Now, we have this matter before us of your pathetic and ill fated condemnation of the community of Democrats who do not favor Hillary ..

You will not post on my feed any longer ... Fibbers get the big kick to ignore ...

[TwilightGardener]

128. Ready for E. Warren. Female. Just sayin'.

[brooklynite]

129. How many "Americans" are doing this...as opposed to pundits?

I'd say this is all inconsequential to the average voter.

[Xyzse]

134. Um, I really like Biden.

Hillary has never been big for me.
I didn't think Bernie would get as much traction as he is getting, but I am happy about it.
I like O'Malley since he was my governor and he addresses the issues as I think it should be done.

I didn't believe that America was ready for a Black president, but I was happy that Obama was elected, even if I had huge misgivings about him.

If Hillary wins the primaries, I would definitely support her candidacy. The important issue for me is to not give Republicans any sort of legitimacy, and to keep the Supreme Court just a tiny bit more sane. Sad as it is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

137. Trotting out the old chestnut I see

Some people will never vote for a women, just like some folks will never vote for a black man. I am willing to bet that the country is ready to vote for a woman. She is simply not generating buzz at the moment, and it has to do with her politics I suspect.

Talking to people, I can tell you, folks are tired of the 1990s, and this is how this feels to many. It is purely anecdotal, but when I talk to people this race feels like it belongs 10 even 20 years ago. Why they are excited over both Sanders and Trump for vastly different reasons mind you. And yes, I have talked to both Sanders and Trump supporters. It is part of the job after all. Locally I have met a few Hillary supporters, they tend to be party insiders though. I have yet to find a supporter in the wild as it were, but it is early. (And my BIL should count but he swears 10 ways to Sunday that he has not made his mind, but he keeps talking of her with admiration)

[senz]

147. Is there ANY difference between Hillary, Elizabeth Warren, and Carly Fiorina?

Or does their overriding "femaleness" extinguish their hard-earned personal characteristics?

I'd say those who see only "woman" are the sexist ones. There may be a tiny minority of Democrats who don't want a woman president, but the majority of Dems who don't want Hillary have entirely non-gendered reasons. We hold her responsible for her stands on the issues, for her vision (or lack thereof) for the country, for her concern (or lack thereof) for the American people, for her character. We judge her as a human being, period.

I would have loved to vote for Elizabeth Warren. I favor Bernie Sanders for who he is and what he stands for, not for his maleness.

I see no reason to push Hillary on us just because she happens to be female. That's not enough. Not nearly enough. I don't vote for a penis or a vagina. I vote for a person.

[elehhhhna]

155. bullshit. not that female. she ain't got it. sorry.

[Juicy_Bellows]

161. That's akin to opposing Michael Vick for dog catcher cuz he's black. Nt.

[The Traveler]

162. I don't think that is the issue

I think the issue revolves around the facts that

1) The Clintons are the very best that the neo-liberal political system has produced.
2) People are fast losing faith in the outcomes produced by neo-liberal policies over the last 25 years.

I can't speak to Ms. Clinton's inner state, or her deepest motivations, but I really believe she intends well for the American people. In truth I always saw her as a great woman ... smart, gutsy, determined, and compassionate. I still do.

Believe me ... the country can do much, much, much worse than elect Hillary Clinton to the office of chief executive.

But history and an examination of her closest advisers tells us that what we will obtain is the best neo-liberal policies can produce ... and for an ever growing number of Americans that just doesn't seem like a good outcome. Speaking for myself, I have no faith in the capacity of neo-liberal economics to substantially and sustain ably improve the lives of average Americans.

Nor do I think neo-liberalism can produce the rapid action that we require on climate change, the on going mass extinction of species, or other critical issues. (Critical as in our civilization could fall down and go boom if we don't take effective action, and we are fast running out of time to do so.)

And those are some of the reasons why Mr. Sanders has my support, and I know that to be the case with the vast majority of the many Sanders supporters of my personal acquaintance.

Ms. Clinton and her supporters can suspect and pretend this about gender politics, but it really isn't. And I honestly believe that attempting to float that explanation serves her poorly. I think it reinforces the perception that she and her camp have lost touch with what is happening out there in voter land. I doubt seriously that she is that out of touch with the pain and anger out there ... but perception is everything.

Just my opinion.

Trav

[bvf]

169. Well said. n/t

[Purveyor]

164. Certainly not the one running. Her 3rd grade schoolmarm demeanor grates on many nerves. eom

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

165. Is America ready for a Jewish president?

I think so. Even though he's being bashed as a Socialist with bad hair who can't win.

[WDIM]

167. Meritocracy not an oligarchy

Judging by the candidates merits their actions their words and their voting record and what they stand for and the people they surround themselves with will decide who i vote for. Im not going to vote on somebody because of their gender or because of their last name or because the media says they are the candidate that can win.

The fact that Hillary is a woman has nothing to do with her lack of support in the left progressive wing of the party.

[morningfog]

173. If what you are really trying to say is America does not want Hillary Clinton as President.

I agree.

[Puzzledtraveller]

195. and that I believe will be the case if nominated

When you leave the circles, echo chambers and bubbles of D.C. her likability plummets. The every day American voter, some of who do not even know what party they are registered with and the parties of the candidates for that matter vote based on who they like more, who they like least, who has the most celebrity, who looks better, who looks younger, who's sexier and on and on. Up against that I think Hillary would even have a hard time against Donald Trump who may in fact even be the best candidate the Republicans could go with. A lot of people would vote for him on his celebrity alone. I am a social services caseworker doing SNAP and Medicaid. Part of our job is asking people if they are registered to vote. My clients are a good across the board spectrum of ethnicity, educational, and vocational back grounds and my confidence in them as voters is not very high.

[bvf]

180. Around DU? Or just among the electorate at large?

[bvf]

186. Yes, but you must have had a context in mind

when you posted.

Forgive me for sounding skeptical, but a quick trip to your profile page--which reveals three hidden posts in your three months on DU--forces the question.

Care to qualify your post?

[bvf]

196. No.

Your comparison of Bush senior to Hillary Clinton is more than enough for me, thanks.

Good luck with those hides.

[6chars]

197. Thanks!

I just learned something useful.

[Z_California]

178. This is such a sad reach.

If Hillary isn't nominated and Fiorina wins the GOP nomination, I suppose you'll be voting for her? Otherwise you'd be sexist right?

SMH

[Puzzledtraveller]

194. Warren decided to sit this one out so Bernie became my #1.