A hands-off Democratic race: Clinton, Sanders won’t speak ill of each other

[Skinner]

At least for now, we Dems are lucky to have such a civil primary race. We could learn something from our candidates. From the Washington Post...

Hillary Rodham Clinton hit on a variety of subjects at her sun-splashed campaign rally here this weekend, but not once in her 30 minutes of speaking did she utter these words: Bernie Sanders.


Campaigning 1,200 miles away in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, Sanders was interrupted for applause 77 times — but not a single line in the senator’s nearly hour-long stump speech referred to Clinton or any other Democratic primary opponent.


The Republican presidential campaign is being dictated by how the 17 candidates, led by Donald Trump, attack each other — from policy disagreements to nasty personal barbs.


The Democratic race stands in stark contrast. Despite tightening polls, the two leading candidates refuse to draw sharp contrasts, let alone criticize each other, leaving voters to discern the differences in their agendas and priorities largely on their own.

Read more: http://wapo.st/1XxDsVb

[Agschmid]

1. Yup.

It's been good, so far.

[Cheese Sandwich]

35. Really to me it seems like a steady stream of attacks from the Clinton campaign

[Agschmid]

36. Disagree.

[Cheese Sandwich]

38. I disagree with your comment

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

185. I agree with your disagreement

[MissDeeds]

43. Agree n/t

[left-of-center2012]

60. It's her surrogates

Gives her deniability.

[merrily]

63. Bingo-McCaskill, Gutierrez, Castro, Cuomo, et al. Very similar to 2008.

Though not necessarily the same cast of characters.

I really have to wonder about this article. Sure WAPO gets campaign surrogates?

[Cheese Sandwich]

68. Surrogates? We used to call those hatchet men

To update for modern usage and make it gender neutral maybe we should say hatchet people. Same idea though.

[treestar]

225. All the comments on the thread about surrogates

like Hillary has never been attacked by Bernie's?

Of course the others will think up criticisms. In fact, I have heard that criticism is very important (on DU for the pst 6 years) and that it is our duty to criticize.

Bernie's going to get his share. No one who runs for President will escape.

[Gothmog]

98. If you consider these comments to be attacks, then you will not survive the general election

You got to be kidding. If Sanders is the nominee, he will be buried with negative ads. The terms "socialist" and "socialism" poll poorly now and will be radioactive after the Kochs spend $400 million in attack ads. If these perceived attacks upset you, then you will not have any fun if Sanders is the nominee in part because Sanders will lack the resources to respond

[Cheese Sandwich]

101. Good thing I'm not running then

P.S. Socialism is actually awesome so the Koch bros can take a hike

[Gothmog]

103. You are so upset about comments from McCaskill and others that do not qualify as attacks

If you think that these are attacks and these attacks upset you, then you will not like the general election if Sanders is the nominee

[SusanCalvin]

113. They don't upset me (she said, butting in)

They amuse me. They are (very mild and somewhat bumbling) attacks, and the evidence of concern amuses and cheers me.

Typos. It seems I can't post one single thing, especially on the tablet, without a typo....

[Gothmog]

200. Socialism polls very badly

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027145813

[SusanCalvin]

215. Well, it does *now*.

Minds can be changed.

[Gothmog]

220. Read the materials, these polls show that this term has been polling badly for a very long time

It will not be easy to change these views. I am curious as to how this will be accomplished? Remember that Sanders will be outspent by a larger amount if he is the nominee

[SusanCalvin]

222. Well, just to name a recent event,

Gay marriage was considered impossible for a long time, polled badly. Now, in what seems a blink of an eye, it polls well and is the law of the land. And there's lots more cases like that in history. I don't see why Bernie and his ideas can't be another.

[maddiemom]

204. Specific examples, please.

[Katashi_itto]

221. Agree!

[Duckhunter935]

2. unfortunately

one is have their well known surrogates do the dirty work

[MissDeeds]

29. That's exactly right

Have the surrogates do the dirty work while one candidate appears to be above the fray. Claire McCaskill was the first of many to come.

Anyone who thinks both leading Democratic candidates are not going to use dirty tricks is only half right.

[VanillaRhapsody]

30. are you talking about Skinner?

[Warren DeMontague]

119. Nah, he's been like the invisible man.

And not like Ed Begley Jr. as the Son of the Invisible Man, either.

We all know Skinner is supporting Hillary, but he hasn't been a jerk about it.

[Warren DeMontague]

124. you're kidding, right?

Yes, I'm duckhunter and duckhunter is me. Duckhunter being someone I think I've never had even a 5 minute conversation with and wasn't even aware of their existence until just now.



Guess what- I know for a fact that there are some serious sockpuppet farmers here on DU. They think they're being clever, but... nah.

And guess what else- I'm not one of them. Never felt the need to use a sock. My words are my own and there's only one of me.

Besides.. after 10+ years, if I was going to leave a sock out, would I do it in Skinner's thread? Jesus, how dumb do I look?

[Duckhunter935]

130. That would be news to me

Almost ten years here and you are my sock? Who would have thunk it?

Nice to meet you, I think Skinner or EarlG would have figured that out by now.

[Warren DeMontague]

132. Seriously.

Although not to put too fine a point on it, you are MY sock.

Well, hello, me. It must explain why you're so devastatingly handsome.

[Duckhunter935]

133. My mistake

I should have known better as I am you

[Warren DeMontague]

143. if there is some confusion

who's to blame?!

[CajunBlazer]

58. And the other has attact dogs on UD (n/t)

[Warren DeMontague]

127. ...dude... have we met?

[Major Hogwash]

142. Don't hold this against Skinner.

He's currently vacationing on Bullshit Mountain.

[Duckhunter935]

145. Never hold anything against him

He has been quite straight even if backing the wrong one.

[RKP5637]

3. Excellent! I really get tired of it when any candidates, R, D or I revert to the seventh grade

playground tactics with name calling and mudslinging. It tells me they don't have much of substance to say.

[HerbChestnut]

4. There's *one* campaign that's not slingning mud.

Clinton may not utter Bernie's name herself, but she's sent out others to do the dirty work for her.

[Fred Sanders]

5. The candidates are not directly attacking each other, as the OP - not read or comprehended - demonstrates, they are each attacking the real enemies.

The real world does not have actual "minions", that is a fictional movie!

[virtualobserver]

8. I really have a hard time understanding why you refuse to accept that reality.

it is standard party politics, not fiction.

[Gothmog]

99. You got to be kidding

If you think that Sanders is being attacked now, just wait until and if he is the nominee. Sanders will be buried under a mountain of negative ads by the Kochs. The sad thing is that Sanders may or will probably lack the resources to respond to such ads.

I hate to break it to you but the terms "socialism" and "socialist" already poll badly and these terms will be radioactive after sufficient negative advertising

[virtualobserver]

107. I don't mind their attacks....just don't pretend that they aren't Hillary surrogates

The socialist attacks didn't work on Obama.

Will they work on any other Democrat?

“I’m pretty sure the first Democratic debate is going to consist of Hillary Clinton and the Chipotle clerk. Well now actually, that’s not fair. We can’t forget about Bernie Sanders. So now the Democratic field consists of a wild-eyed socialist with ideas that are dangerous for America and the world, and…Bernie Sanders.”

Ted Cruz

They have done nothing but call President Obama a socialist for 7 years....and they are calling Hillary one today as well.

But somehow the term will destroy Bernie?

[Gothmog]

149. The GOP attempted to paint President Obama with the socialist tag because that terms polls so badly

From Gallop http://www.gallup.com/poll/125645/Socialism-Viewed-Positively-Americans.aspx

PRINCETON, NJ -- More than one-third of Americans (36%) have a positive image of "socialism," while 58% have a negative image. Views differ by party and ideology, with a majority of Democrats and liberals saying they have a positive view of socialism, compared to a minority of Republicans and conservatives.



....Socialism

Socialism had the lowest percentage positive rating and the highest negative rating of any term tested. Still, more than a third of Americans say they have a positive image of socialism.

Exactly how Americans define "socialism" or what exactly they think of when they hear the word is not known. The research simply measures Americans' reactions when a survey interviewer reads the word to them -- an exercise that helps shed light on connotations associated with this frequently used term.

There are significant differences in reactions to "socialism" across ideological and partisan groups:

A majority of 53% of Democrats have a positive image of socialism, compared to 17% of Republicans.
Sixty-one percent of liberals say their image of socialism is positive, compared to 39% of moderates and 20% of conservatives

The Kochs will have great deal to work with if Sanders is the nominee in that Sanders admits to being a socialist and the voters will not really care to make a difference.

[Gothmog]

151. Little Change in Public’s Response to ‘Capitalism,’ ‘Socialism’

The GOP failed to link Obama to the term socialism effectively but would have a far easier time with Sanders. Here is more on the polling on this term. From Pew http://www.pewresearch.org/daily-number/little-change-in-publics-response-to-capitalism-socialism/

The word ‘socialism’ triggers a negative reaction for most Americans, but certainly not for all. Six-in-ten (60%) people say they have a negative reaction to the word, while just 31% have a positive reaction. Those numbers are little changed from April 2010....

By contrast, socialism is a far more divisive word, with wide differences of opinion along racial, generational, socioeconomic and political lines. Fully nine-in-ten conservative Republicans (90%) view socialism negatively, while nearly six-in-ten liberal Democrats (59%) react positively. Low-income Americans are twice as likely as higher-income Americans to offer a positive assessment of socialism (43% among those with incomes under $30,000, 22% among those earning $75,000 or more).

Bernie has made these attacks far easier compared to President Obama

[sabrina 1]

109. We know he will be attacked, we expect that, so does he. We do not expect him to be attacked by

Democrats, which is what McCaskill and Gutierrez and the DNC member whose name I thankfully forgot momentarily, are no? McCaskill IS a Dem isn't she? Gutierrez? The DNC? Why are THEY attacking Sanders?

We know the Repubs will be vicious, we are ready for that, but Dems? Really?

[Gothmog]

120. Do you really think that he was attacked?

You got to be kidding

[SusanCalvin]

128. Yes.

Very mildly, but yes. I find it amusing.

[Gothmog]

148. How will you handle a general election with $400 million of attack ads on Sanders?

[SusanCalvin]

152. As it comes.

I find this question amusing as well, and not a convincing argument for Clinton v. Sanders.

I seriously think we are at a historical turning point here. I hope so, anyway, and am not currently willing to settle for the current menu. It is early yet.

[rhett o rick]

164. Yes, very definately. nm

[Scootaloo]

182. This really is a nonsense argument

Any Democrat nominee will face exactly the same thing.

[HerbChestnut]

9. Oh I read it

But if a candidate has 3 high profile surrogates go out across the country and attack their opponent almost simultaneously, you don't think that's coordinated?

[Duckhunter935]

20. Some prefer

Head in the sand I think. Yes it is very obvious what is going on. Just like she "says" she would not mind more debates but will not put any pressure on the DNC or DWS in tacit approval for the limited debates that are in her benefit.

[VanillaRhapsody]

31. Why should SHE advocate what will help YOUR choice not her?

The psuedo-Democrat should probably not complain about the party not treating him fairly you think? Maybe that is the consequences of not actually BECOMING a Democrat....Maybe he should call himself one....and then ask for favors?

[Duckhunter935]

34. Well he is more of a democrat

Than the corporate Democratic Party has been for several years. Hillary takes that to a new level with her votes for war an love of Wall Street, Goldman Sachs and the other big banks.

[VanillaRhapsody]

39. No actually he isn't....he doesn't even call himself one...

He calls himself "affiliated" with...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders_presidential_campaign,_2016

His campaign wikipedia seems to belie your position....

so yeah...Psuedo-Democrat...

[Duckhunter935]

42. I will take his positions over

The ones that "call" themselves democrats. Remember Lieberman called himself a democrat. I will take Bernie over the likes of him.

[VanillaRhapsody]

45. I don't care WHAT you take his positions are....

I originally said.....good luck asking the Democratic Party for "favors" when you are not even becoming one! That decision....WILL have its consequences....

[Duckhunter935]

52. Wow, chill

Have a great day and calm down.

[VanillaRhapsody]

78. Who says I am not calm?

Keep Calm and Politic On is my motto!

but I understand....suggesting I am unhinged is the only logical response you have.....

[Duckhunter935]

82. Sorry, but to me you seemed a little worked up

I guess the insults directed at me like that last response made me think that. I try and not get personal in my posts, might not always be successful though. Have a great weekend and I would appreciate it if you would limit the insults directed at me just because I fail to agree with you about your chosen candidate. We will not change our minds on who we support.

[VanillaRhapsody]

85. Sorry....but you seem not to recognize passion when you see it...

mistaking passion for "being worked up" is a major mistake in an election!

[Duckhunter935]

88. Oh I recognize passion

I also recognize insults and expect common curtesy.

[VanillaRhapsody]

89. apparently not.....

and I recognize that when you lose an argument....a typical response is to accuse your opponent of being "angry".....

[Duckhunter935]

90. And I even apologized

Go figure.

Have a great weekend

[VanillaRhapsody]

91. sure with a back hand....but I get it...I really do!

[1StrongBlackMan]

208. I'm sure you recognize what happened immediately above ...

distract and derail ... distract and derail.

[CanadaexPat]

46. Shouldn't she advocate for the voters?

[VanillaRhapsody]

79. SHE is....by WINNING!

this isn't tiddly dee winks!

Have you looked at what we are up against? If this bothers you then you are not prepared for THAT onslaught.

However....there IS one candidate that has withstood all their ammunition for the past 20 yrs!

[SusanCalvin]

165. Hilarious. But I do favor her above any R, of course.

SCOTUS, if nothing else. And not becoming the laughingstock of the world by electing (God forbid) Trump.

[AgingAmerican]

76. in 2008 she said limiting debates was, 'Unamerican'

In 2008 Hillary Clinton forcefully argued that more debates are necessary:

* for party-building in the states
* for national media exposure
* for policy and platform refinement
* to energize base voters
* to bring in new voters into the process
* to prepare for gotchas and strengthen debating chops

So now she doesn't care how much she damages the party?

[Duckhunter935]

83. She evolved

[VanillaRhapsody]

123. Why should she be campaigning to get what doesn't help her win?

Is your side that weak that they have to get HER to do YOUR work for your campaign too?

If you are SUCH a formidable campaign....then don't expect HER to give you your handicap.....GO Demand it..... "Revolutionaries"

If you are going to have a...you know..."Revolution"......you gotta have some Billy Bad Assness! Show us what ya got! Go out there and GET IT! Revolutionize!!! Start with the Democratic Party....DO IT!


Show us HOW you all are going to change everything!!!

If you think demanding that Republicans play fair ball is going to change everything......you are going to stand there with an outstretched hand for a long time.....probably get it slapped back!

[SusanCalvin]

126. As I posted below, apparently at something like the same time,

There's pragmatism, and there's lack of integrity.

[AgingAmerican]

179. Her words: Unamerican

Her words:

In 2008 Hillary Clinton forcefully argued that more debates are necessary:

* for party-building in the states
* for national media exposure
* for policy and platform refinement
* to energize base voters
* to bring in new voters into the process
* to prepare for gotchas and strengthen debating chops

Her words

[druidity33]

228. Why would more debates not help her win? nt.

[SusanCalvin]

125. There's pragmatism,

And there's lack of integrity.

[Amish Farmer]

171. And shes hoping we don't notice.

100% hypocrite.

[SusanCalvin]

177. Most are hoping we don't notice.

Trump and Bernie being exceptions.

Mmmm, well, Trump hopes we notice but don't fully understand. Unless he doesn't realize what a loser he really is, which is probably the case, now that I think of it.

[frylock]

51. Are people really this naive in The Real World?

[SusanCalvin]

166. I don't even know what post this is in response to,

But, yeah, probably. It's up to us to educate them.

[Metric System]

6. Sanders has his supporters to do the dirty work.

[DemByDefault]

7. Eeek

Sanders supporters!!!1!

[Bobbie Jo]

19. Yeah, pretty much

Getting quite the reputation, at that.

[AtomicKitten]

48. Quite the manufactured meme, er, reputation among Clinton supporters.

Which means absolutely nothing outside the Clinton echo chamber.

[Bobbie Jo]

53. Right, you go with that...

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[AtomicKitten]

55. It's deja vu, circa 2007/08 behavior by her campaign.

Pretty tough to deny being a repeat performance.

[Bobbie Jo]

56. Yeah

Read these threads and get back to me.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=541238

U.G.L.Y.

[AtomicKitten]

57. Alrighty then. Denial it is from you. Good luck with that.

Do you see my name anywhere in that?

NOPE.

[Bobbie Jo]

61. IOW

Not only did you skip reading the threads, you have nothing in the way of an actual response.

DENIAL


[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[AtomicKitten]

64. Manufactured meme: "Bernie doesn't care about black/brown people."

[Bobbie Jo]

69. Supporter's behavior

NOT manufactured.

Which was the subject of this subthread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=573831



Did you forget what we were talking about already?

[AtomicKitten]

72. The race-baiting memes are coming from the collective YOU, Clinton supporters.

It's a twist on the race-baiting campaign Clinton ran in 2007/08. You might recall that considering the archives have a plethora of posts from you decrying that behavior. Now apparently you are not only down with it but glad to disseminate here.

You may recall a skit from SNL, a parody of Hillary Clinton and her supporters. A parody, of course, breathes life based on an element of truth. The link is below. It's Amy Poehler as Hillary Clinton at the end of the 2008 primary stating, "I'm a sore loser," "My supporters are racist", and "I have no ethical standards." Nothing has changed since then other than you switching sides.

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/message-from-hillary-clinton/n12241

[Bobbie Jo]

73. Whoooooosh

You left out "race-card," too.

Read the threads...

U.G.L.Y.

[AgingAmerican]

81. Race card?

As in 'White Supremacist Liberals?"

[Bobbie Jo]

137. As in

RW terms that get thrown around here without a second fucking thought.

As in THAT.

[AtomicKitten]

139. right, as in "white supremacist liberals"-- on that we agree.

[Bobbie Jo]

146. Huh?

WTF are you going on about now

Since when is that a RW term?

Good Lord, try fucking anything whether it makes sense or not.

[Number23]

110. They won't read them, BJ. People have tried to get these people to see how damaging

their own behavior is. Other SANDERS SUPPORTERS have tried to get these people to see. They won't listen.

They are determined that nothing will burst their bubble that "everything is AWWWWESOME!!" (quoting the Lego Movie here) while they nervously high five each other and pretend that everyone who criticizes their behavior are Clinton operatives and Hillary supporters. The ENTIRE DAMN INTERNET has called these people out -- Thom Hartmann called out Sanders supporters ON DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND -- and they're still doing the "I see nothink!" schtick. It's really unbelievable.

[AtomicKitten]

116. You once railed against race-baiting by Clinton.

Last edited Sun Sep 6, 2015, 10:48 PM - Edit history (7)

The archives are full of posts by you decrying what Clinton did in 2007/08. Now that you've changed your mind and are fine with it, don't even act like nobody remembers. Some Clinton supporters have annexed the AA group from which they've launched race-baiting attacks on Bernie and his supporters. You guys have overplayed your hand with the BLM tactical assault, and the self-righteous race-tainted nastiness you've chosen to emulate is the very behavior you once railed against. Transparent as fuck.


Below is Thom Hartmann expressing some issues with BLM and Hillary.

"

Bernie & BlackLivesMatter
By Thom Hartmann
link: http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2015/08/bernie-blacklivesmatter

You need to know this… Over 28,000 people came out to see Bernie Sanders speak at the Moda Center in Portland - Oregon last night.

It was the largest crowd yet for the Sanders campaign - and - this is even more impressive - the largest crowd for any candidate of any party this election cycle.

Even Bernie himself seemed surprised as he took the stage - calling the crowd “unbelievable” before pushing - as he always does - for a political revolution right here - right now in America.

Three straight months of rallies like this should make it obvious to anyone who’s paying attention: Bernie is for real. His message is catching on - and - for now at least - it looks like he’s going to give Hillary Clinton a real run for her money - and maybe - just maybe - win the Democratic nomination for president.

But even Bernie’s surprisingly successful campaign has had its controversies.

A few weeks ago at Netroots Nation - protesters from the Black Lives Matter movement stormed the stage while Bernie was hosting a question and answer session and demanded that he come with a “plan to end structural racism.”

The incident caught the senator by surprise and touched a nerve because one of the big narratives that’s popped up over the course of Bernie’s campaign - and it’s a false one - is that Bernie is “bad on race.”

That narrative faded into the background as Bernie began talking at his rallies about police violence and white supremacy - but then on Saturday - one day before that 28,000 rally in Portland - it erupted out into the open once again at an event in Seattle.

As Bernie took the stage to give a speech about Social Security and Medicare - two women who said they’re part of Black Lives Matter Seattle - stormed the stage and demanded that they be given a chance to speak.

They then called the crowd “racist” - called for a four and a half minute of silence honoring Michael Brown - and shouted that they would shut the whole rally down unless they were given the mic.

Event organizers did end up giving the two women the mic - and they got their minute of silence. Senator Sanders - though - left the stage - and didn’t even get a chance to speak.

This latest confrontation between Black Lives Matter protesters and the Bernie Sanders campaign has left many progressives frustrated - angry - and confused. They want to know why the Black Lives Matter people seem to be picking on the one candidate who could actually do their movement some good - the guy who marched with the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. and the guy who has the strongest record on civil rights of any of the Democrats running for president.

So what the heck is going on?

- See more at: http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2015/08/bernie-blacklivesmatter#sthash.vex79prq.dpuf

[Major Hogwash]

138. Transparency is a good thing.

Let them talk about it all they want, it isn't going to matter in the end.
I've seen this happen 10,000 times before at DU when people overplay their hand.

It's like they are all enjoying smoking a cigar.
It's all good . . . right up until the time they find out it is one of those exploding gag cigars!

[AtomicKitten]

141. you're right, of course

good visual

[Number23]

178. If the archives are so "full" of my posts "decrying" whatever that person is howling about

It surely wouldn't have been all that hard to post to some of those "decying" links. Right??

Transparency is a good thing, after all! Especially when somebody's "transparency" is so transparent that nobody can even see it.

[Major Hogwash]

188. I don't know what you're referring to.

I don't think it is my job to provide anyone with links to what they said 7 years ago at the DU.

[Number23]

169. I have still decried alot of the racist shit that Clinton said in 2008. What the hell is your point?

And the AA group has not been annexed by anyone. We are the last forum on this web site that deals in reality instead of pie in the sky idiocy based on ignorance. We have some of EVERYONE in the AA group, except imbeciles. And I hope that never changes.

Not that I understand why you'd care either way. You've never posted in the AA forum as far as I can tell. And please, seriously PLEASE, don't feel that you need to rectify that now in any way.

You want to worry so much about what other people are posting but I'd suggest that you worry about yourself. You have changed SOO much since the 2008 primary season. From a staunch Obama supporter to... whatever you want to call what you're doing now. And Lord knows it has truly not been pretty or particularly interesting to watch.

[Bobbie Jo]

134. Noooooo

They're not gonna read a one of them.

Yet they continue to show their behinds all over the damn Internet and act as if nothing ever happened.

Pffffffft.


[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[AtomicKitten]

136. Thom Hartmann has since expressed some issues with BLM & their relationship with Hillary.

Last edited Mon Sep 7, 2015, 06:25 PM - Edit history (5)

FTR "they" have read your links and they have nothing to do with me. I have edited to add something by Thom Hartmann who has backed off his original view of BLM since they've displayed some questionable behavior (kowtowing obsequiousness) toward Hillary. You guys have overplayed your hand with the BLM tactical assault on Bernie's candidacy and on his supporters. Clearly you don't realize that but, please, proceed.

Edited to add Thom Hartmann:

"

[Bobbie Jo]

153. Yeah I wouldn't read them either.

It's damn ugly.

Ya'll own that shit, it's here forever.

btw... The TH thread wasn't even one of my links. You didn't read squat.

[AtomicKitten]

154. It has been mentioned many times and was above by another poster.

And your links were viewed and are still bullshit because they have nothing to do with me. You are deflecting.

[Bobbie Jo]

157. Of course you would think so

That's the fucking point.

Own it.

[AtomicKitten]

158. Sure, when you own acting like the self-appointed sphincter police.

If you've got a problem with the authors of the links you posted, why don't you direct it to them? Why do you feel the need to frag every one of Bernie's supporters for stuff random people write that you don't agree with? Shit, even just the links you provided don't agree with each other, yet you put them up as if it's a cohesive mantra here.

I was reading some of your old posts in the archives on Hillary and I must say your 180 on her is nothing short of spectacularly hilarious. That's why nobody takes your political rah-rah seriously. You're just trying waaaaay too hard.

And THAT my former friend is the fucking point.

[Bobbie Jo]

160. Where are you off to now?

This is getting creepy.

"Former friend?" What?



Done. Here.

I have no use for anyone who would defend that ugliness with such voracity.

Ya'll deserve each other...

[AtomicKitten]

162. My name wasn't in a single one of those threads you posted.

So quit fucking lying about me defending them. I did no such thing, either then or now.

I do, however, think people are entitled to express their opinions here - after all this is a discussion board - contrary to the self-appointed sphincter police and their jackbooted thuggery around here.

Bah-bye. You truly aren't worth another keystroke.

[sheshe2]

159. You just edited your post.

Why?

I was going to respond to the bull. Now it is gone.

[Number23]

170. Exactly. While pretending, as usual, that the folks calling them out endlessly and often are only

Hillary supporters.

Like I said, when you're determined not to pop that bubble of denial reality is the last thing you're willing to let intrude.

[SusanCalvin]

144. I know exactly what you are talking about.

It's some "supporters," not most and not Bernie. But it worries me.

And, for the record, based on the reply above as I tap the screen, BLM is not monolithic nor closely coordinated. And I seriously doubt Hartmann has changed his basic position, although I intend to look into it.

Edited to add that I remember the Hartmann callout. I meant (in response to a different post) that I doubt he has changed his position that white privilege does, in fact, exist.

[Number23]

173. You are one of a number of Sanders supporters who bring alot to the AA forum. I have seen you often

and I've enjoyed your posts.

It's some "supporters," not most and not Bernie.

We know it's some and not all. And we definitely know it's not the candidate himself. But Jesus Christ almighty, even it's only some of his supporters it's ENOUGH of them.

[SusanCalvin]

174. It's enough of them to sink him,

And it worries the hell out of me.

Typos, argh, typos...

[Number23]

175. You're absolutely right. But they are too busy running around this thread and others trying to

pretend that Black Lives Matter was some "trap" against their precious guy. Someone said to me upthread that "we" (I guess meaning black people??!) "overplayed our hands" accusing Sanders of not giving #BLM enough attention.

Let that sink in for a second.

Getting someone running for president to address issues of importance to minority communities is some sort of "trap." Let's put aside the fact that #Black Lives Matter has gone after EVERYONE and the only people still screaming about it are clueless, paternalistic, and destructive Sanders supporters. Let's also put aside the fact that Sanders and his campaign have responded really well to the well deserved criticism they received from #BLM and have adjusted their campaign accordingly.

What kind of person would consider a movement to get cops to stop killing black people a "trap" because their candidate didn't handle it well the first couple of times he was confronted with this issue? Who does that? Seriously, I would like to know. And is this someone that I'm supposed to consider my ally? I can think of a thousand things I'd consider someone who behaves this way, but "ally" damn sure isn't one of them.

[SusanCalvin]

176. Exactly. nt

[AtomicKitten]

181. Nice distortion.

Last edited Mon Sep 7, 2015, 06:35 PM - Edit history (2)

The collective YOU means Clinton supporters. Nice swerve into race though. And BLM is most certainly not dishing it equally. Seattle remains distinctly different from other BLM confrontations with candidates. BLM deferred to Hillary with obsequious kowtowing so over the top even Thom Hartmann said WTF. Nobody called it a trap, but the disparity in treatment is absolutely noteworthy.

You'd be hard pressed to find a single person on this website who doesn't support what BLM stands for, so continuing to claim a negative behavior in that regard doesn't hold water. We were allies once during the 2008 election. I haven't changed my mind about Hillary and apparently you have, but stop conflating that with BLM. It's gratuitously incendiary and I suspect that that is exactly as you intend. I suspect it's a backdoor way to attack Bernie supporters here.

Like Thom Hartmann says, Bernie doesn't have a race problem and, no, he doesn't want a cookie for marching with Martin Luther King. Nice disrespect for civil rights history. His supporters don't have a problem with race either, although many are pushing that bullshit. Those are entirely manufactured memes used as a cudgel here, and it's tiresome.

On edit: Although you claim to not be a Clinton supporter ... if it walks like a duck. Your clearly expressed disdain for Bernie renders you one by default, and the label is not the point regardless.

I will not waste another keystroke on this.

[Major Hogwash]

189. Their pretzel logic is just too twisted to straighten out in just a few posts.

I'm not sure they would admit it later even if you took more time to explain it to them either.

[Number23]

191. For someone who mentioned you "don't know what anyone is referring to" here you are sure

allll up in this thread.

[Major Hogwash]

192. So, I'm not allowed to post at the DU now?

That's a really odd comment.

[Number23]

194. So is your continued participation in a subthread where you've mentioned you don't know what's

going on.

[Major Hogwash]

195. We don't have subthreads at the new DU.

The old DU had subthreads.

The new DU has long, drawn out discussions.

[Number23]

196. We do still have subthreads.

Even ones as bewildering and pointless as this one.

[AtomicKitten]

193. cheers

[Major Hogwash]

197. Cheers to you, as well.

[Number23]

190. I am not a Clinton supporter. I know that you guys drench your keyboards in sweat pretending that

everyone that doesn't swear fealty to Bernie Sanders must automatically be a Clinton supporter but that's not the case.

You need to own the bullshit that you said to me upthread. The person I am responding to is a Sanders supporter and she sees how destructive and manic you guys are just like the rest of us do. Like I said, BLM has gone after EVERYONE and yet, it's only you guys that are still endlessly crying about it with one side of your mouths while with the other side, crying crocodile tears that most POC are giving Sanders the side eye and straight up making the sign of the cross to get his supporters to go away and leave them alone.

And if you so obviously and so desperately need to cling to the idea that this is a "manufactured meme" and not something that countless people of color have said, Tweeted and written over and over and over and over again, then you knock yourself out. Literally.

And your "we are not allies" bit was the only part of your post that made me smile. I honest to God smiled. Not that you needed to actually type that. Your actions and those of your ilk have proven that a long time ago to the black posters here and to the entire Internet. Which is why EVERYONE has called you guys out. Repeatedly, loudly and often.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

226. It seems to me Sanders is doing just fine, and so are his supporters.

I keep hearing about how people like me are the problem because we advocate for Bernie Sanders' candidacy. Well, more people are joining our ranks every day. I think that speaks a lot louder than these made up accusations that never have made any intuitive sense. Bad people don't congregate around a good candidate, and the only people who believe they do are stuck in some really outmoded thinking involving party loyalty and political brands. Those people haven't felt the ground shift under their feet. They should have paid closer attention.

[Number23]

229. "Bad people don't congregate around a good candidate"

I couldn't agree more. Absofuckinglutely. A totally needless post until that point. Yes indeed.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

230. I wanted to say what I said. And I did.

I don't subject myself to your dictates. That would be unwise for my health and sense of well-being.

[Number23]

232. I agree with your statement and you're still trying to fight. Which does absolutely nothing but

underscore what you've said even more.

"Bad people don't congregate around good candidates."

I simply COULD NOT agree more.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

233. Ok. Good.

[Number23]

234. Knew you'd see it that way

[HerbChestnut]

10. The key difference...

Being that Sanders, or any candidate for that matter, can't control what their supporters say or do. A candidate can, however, instruct or infer what their surrogates should say on the campaign trail.

[Fred Sanders]

11. Any actual Evidence of these robotic minions being seeded throughout the land by Controller Clinton?

Or are simple fact-free accusations good enough...what are these strange words, this "evidence" and "facts" I speak of, is that the problem?

My work here is done.

[HerbChestnut]

12. It's all circumstantial

Obviously I, nor anyone else here, knows the inner workings of the campaigns. But really, this is so obvious. Three high profile democrats going out and simultaneously attacking Bernie on Hillary's behalf? Come on...

[Fred Sanders]

15. ..............................(No comment).............................

[HerbChestnut]

16. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to

But I'm willing to bet that you'll see more attacks on Sanders from Clinton surrogates in the future.

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. So Bernie better toughen up then, if he plans on attending the GE

its not going to be cream puffs and chamomile tea after the Primary!

[fbc]

47. Actually it would be easy for Bernie

The general election would be a cakewalk for Bernie. After the primary he might even have enough of a lead to choose Cornel West as his running mate against all conventional wisdom.

Hillary would lose though, which might not be a bad thing if it finally moves democrats to realize they can't win as republican light.

[RKP5637]

62. Republican light democrats have degraded and fractured the democratic party. IMO they

might as well join the republicans. They will be the downfall of the democratic party in the long run. If one wants a republican-like-candidate, then many will just choose a republican. Republican light democrats make the democratic party look weak and ineffective. I put them into the same category as democrats who sit home and do not vote because their panties/pants got in a knot over something.

The democratic party is often its own worse enemy. So many times republicans have said to me, why should they even look at the democratic party, because in their mind they think many are the same as the republican guy running.

One place I lived the democrats were so right wing they made the right wing republicans look mild. It's a horrible time when one has to imitate the other party to try to win an election than having the guts to stand up for something different.

[zappaman]

70. This may be the funniest thing I've read on DU in a while.

Thanks for that!

[merrily]

67. I have a feeling more than a few not only believe it, but know very well it's been happening, but

will be damned if they admit it, esp. on this board.

If not, then the denial is stronger than I've ever seen in real life.

[n2doc]

44. here's evidence

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/hillary-clinton-2016-proxies-attack-bernie-sanders-213359#ixzz3kouS7nX8

I'm sure you will find some reason to ignore it

[cali]

13. ridiculous. let me explain it simply for you.

Your claim is that he has his supporters doing the dirty work. That infers that he and his campaign are putting supporters up to doing "dirty work". Patently ridiculous on every possible front. He had no history of campaigning that way. Everything he's said contradicts your claim. And criticism of Clinton by Bernie's supporters has no impact at all on the race.

Clinton, however, does have a well documented history of using high profile surrogates, whose comments are amplified by the media, to sow damaging sound bites

[Metric System]

23. I think you know that's not what I said or meant. Your assertion that criticism of Clinton by

Sanders supporters has "no impact" on the race is questionable, given their propensity to inundate social media and online articles with pro-Sanders/anti-Hillary comments. Social media arguably impacts as much as the media, maybe even more so with younger people.

[HereSince1628]

50. This is all a great job of dissembling. Of course if you -are- dissembling you would want

people to work to help keep the charade going. By reinforcing the meme that H> isn't "saying" things. Which hides the obvious coordination of her campaign and the surrogates

[sheshe2]

161. Hillary uses surrogates and

Bernie is as clean as the driven snow.

Your claim is that he has his supporters doing the dirty work. That infers that he and his campaign are putting supporters up to doing "dirty work". Patently ridiculous on every possible front. He had no history of campaigning that way. Everything he's said contradicts your claim. And criticism of Clinton by Bernie's supporters has no impact at all on the race.

Clinton, however, does have a well documented history of using high profile surrogates, whose comments are amplified by the media, to sow damaging sound bites

[grasswire]

224. that's about right

Hillary uses surrogates and Bernie is clean.

You said it.

[merrily]

65. What a joke. Please don't confuse your view of DU with a bona fide campaign surrogate.

There is no comparison whatever.

[AgingAmerican]

77. He has no surrogates doing dirty work

Ever heard of "White Supremacist Liberals"? Yeah.....

[Scootaloo]

186. That's rich.

[Left coast liberal]

14. Good! Thank gods someone is taking the high ground in this wacky culture of ours...

[Android3.14]

17. At least directly

The new wave of surrogates, however, is another thing entirely.

[HereSince1628]

18. Although that says nothing of the speech of surrogates

[TBF]

21. Sadly Joaquin Castro is not being very civil -

which has been quite disappointing to me. I have been a huge supporter of Julian Castro and really didn't appreciate that his brother would outright lie about Bernie.

http://www.sacurrent.com/Blogs/archives/2015/09/04/castro-sanders-feud-growing-protest-planned-in-sa

In San Antonio supporters of Bernie are protesting his remarks.

This is what Joaquin said, a bold lie since Bernie has already addressed stadiums of supporters in both Dallas and Houston (within the past couple of months):

"I want to say this in all frankness. I didn't come here to knock any of the candidates, but Sen. Sanders has not reached out to the Hispanic caucus in Congress, has not reached out to me," Castro said, according to the Texas Tribune. "I've never met the gentleman. [He] has not visited Texas or the Rio Grande Valley."

[Duckhunter935]

27. here is another good one

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/07/30/chris_matthews_to_debbie_wasserman_schultz_whats_the_difference_between_a_democrat_and_a_socialist.html

and another
Dem Sen. McCaskill Rips Sanders: "Media Giving Bernie A Pass," He's A "Socialist"
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/06/25/dem_sen_mccaskill_rips_bernie_sanders_media_giving_bernie_sanders_a_pass_hes_a_socialist.html

Did Hillary care to chime in on these or did she just quietly agree by saying nothing?

[AgingAmerican]

92. They get their talking points from her campaign

This is what GW Bush did in 2000 and against Kerry. Pretended to be 'above the fray' while his campaign surrogates flung poop for him. She is running a dirty campaign, IMHO, and will only Damage the Democratic brand.

[Duckhunter935]

95. I agree with you

[SusanCalvin]

114. Thanks for the link to the article.

It sounds like it's possible it was just an off-the-cuff answer, not a coordinated or calculated attack. Hope so, because I like Castro.

[TBF]

201. It is very disappointing -

I have been a very loyal supporter of Julian. Julian first met with Clinton in Dec of 2013 I believe it was (he posted a photo on his Facebook page). You hope people will stay above this type of behavior. Very disappointing.

[blue neen]

22. "At least for now, we Dems are lucky to have such a civil primary race."

Agreed. Let's hope it stays that way, from the Federal level on down through the state levels, and so forth.

[rocktivity]

24. It's not civility, it's strategy.

Hillary isn't saying anything bad about Bernie because that would imply that she takes him seriously. And Bernie isn't saying anything bad about Hillary because it's more to his advantage to his precious airtime for saying good things about himself.

The media aren't so "lucky," of course -- no headlines, fewer ad revenues...


rocktivity

[mhatrw]

40. Sanders wants to talk about the great issues facing our nation.

Personality-based tit for tat horserace corporate media "politics" are not among the great issues facing our nation.

[MineralMan]

25. It's rather remarkable, isn't it?

A breath of fresh air.

[AgingAmerican]

93. One campaign flinging poop through surrogates

While the other talks issues.

Yeah, a real breath of 'fresh air'.

[Motown_Johnny]

26. I wonder which one is setting the tone.

[fbc]

49. +1

[EEO]

28. Won't last. If Hillary thinks Bernie can take it away from her she will wage a brutal war.

Just ask Obama.

[VanillaRhapsody]

33. Right now she is not focussing on Sanders....

(Who still has a snowballs chance)....she is focussing on the long race....pacing herself for the GE.

[EEO]

37. Oh, is that right? Your center-right candidate will not get her prize easily, if at all.

[merrily]

66. Won't last? It never started. Her campaign surrogates have been attacking Sanders all along.

[AgingAmerican]

94. The closer he gets, the more desperate she and her surrogates will become

And the dirtier they get, the faster he will rise. It's a perfect storm.

[SusanCalvin]

115. Well, I hope she doesn't

Do the (paraphrasing from memory) "the R and I are qualified on foreign policy, but I don't know about that other D" thing again. That is burned in my brain, and the reason for my first-ever campaign contribution in the primaries back in 2008.

Bernie, I've been a monthly contributor since way before he announced.

Sigh, me and typos/ambiguous sentences...

I didn't mean my first campaign contribution, I meant the first during primaries, not the GE.

[EEO]

129. I have also pledged what little I can in monthly donations to Bernie.

He is the only one who can give us a chance to fight income inequality and attempt to fix a rigged financial system.

[SusanCalvin]

131. Completely agree.

He can do a lot if he has the people behind him. And if he has coattails, which I believe he is developing.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

41. "We could learn something from our candidates."

Admit it.

You kinda figured this thread would look like this.

[Agschmid]

75. Yup.

[GitRDun]

54. Great post - great thread!

All of the hilarity we normally see on display.

Sanders supporters railing against the "surrogates".

Others claiming Sanders is letting his "supporters" do the dirty work.

I think the reality is that the OP is correct, neither candidate will "go there".

In both cases, however, both candidates supporters, famous or otherwise, will absolutely "go there" regardless of their candidates position.

Too funny.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

59. You wouldn't know it here

Perceived slights left and right.

[fadedrose]

71. Clinton's and Bernie's Supporters

are making up for these two candidates using kid gloves on each other...

Everytime I read a thread favoring one or the other there are posts hidden or threads locked. These folks waited since the last election to get back to business and snarl at one another.

Gets a little tiresome, but the nasty is so tantalizing to post and all the folks seem to enjoy it.

Be strong, Skinner. I know you can outlast them all.

[Agschmid]

74. Yup.

[orpupilofnature57]

80. I must say " us supporters " malign them and each other in every way, They don't.

[Cali_Democrat]

84. Great read. nt

[AgingAmerican]

86. Hillary's proxy attacks on Sanders are a sign of weakness

“Secretary Clinton’s campaign is getting a little nervous and sending out these surrogates from the establishment to say things about Bernie, but Bernie is determined to keep the campaign focused on the issues,” said Sanders’ spokesman Michael Briggs.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/hillary-clinton-2016-proxies-attack-bernie-sanders-213359#ixzz3kzIhBfOh

[SusanCalvin]

163. Yep. Good. nt

[zappaman]

87. Hillary is so scared of Sanders, she's shitting her pants!

It's true!
I read it on DU!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

96. I hope they'll, at least, speak out on their differences in policy and history.

Which many here consider "speaking ill".

[Control-Z]

105. There's quite a contrast

in their histories. It will be good to compare them. They are closer on many issues than one might imagine.

[Gothmog]

97. It is nice to have two adults running for office

Both of Clinton and Sanders are adults as compared to the children in the GOP clown car

[SusanCalvin]

155. This is the simple truth.

Hope those who vote realize it.

[dpatbrown]

205. I also agree.

I feel they are BOTH being respectful of each other, and it is so refreshing to witness. Others doing the dirty work? Who knows. I'm taking a positive approach. I hope it continues.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

100. WoW

An article in WAPO on Secretary Clinton that wasn't condemnatory. That means ten condemnatory articles are forthcoming.

[vadermike]

102. i think

we have an uphill battle on our hands for 16 unfortunately.. it will not be a slam dunk and a kasich/trump, or kasich.rubio or trump/kasich , or trump/carson can easily beat us.. most parties do not get 3 terms in a row.. i think the DNC jacked up bad with the debates

[MADem]

104. Well, THEY are friends--and Hillary donated to Sanders' Senate campaign.

I wish some of the supporters could be as civil as they are managing to be.

[Autumn]

111. I know what you mean, I wish some of the supporters could be civil too.

[Cha]

135. That's not going to happen.. they're in deep denial.

[Warren DeMontague]

106. Come on, Skinner. Her refusal to acknowledge his existence at all is probably not an accident.

And it probably isnt due to some high-minded creed of not speaking ill of fellow Primary candidates.

[SusanCalvin]

117. I think this is the correct interpretation. nt

[aquart]

213. Bill Clinton rarely spoke an unkind word in his campaigns.

Hillary learned from him.

[jfern]

108. Hillary has been paying for travel for surrogates to attack Sanders

[ericson00]

112. Skinner, now is the time to enforce civility

we must honor our party heroes, Bill and Hillary Clinton. RW Republican redneck attacks on them have no place here.

[Warren DeMontague]

118. pfffft. tell us how you really feel.

"primaries are nice, but..."

Sorry man, she's not the nominee yet. As much as some people would like to fast forward through them, there will be a primary process, and that means that people are not obligated to support her and are free to support other primary candidates.

[SusanCalvin]

167. Yep.

And this RW redneck business? I have never alerted, but.....

[AtomicKitten]

122. "Our party heroes?". LOL.

Last edited Sun Sep 6, 2015, 09:09 PM - Edit history (1)

I am so done with the Bill and Hillary Show. I'm tired of the incessant blowback from their lack of ethical standards. The sooner they retire from their money-grubbing Third Way dog and pony show, the sooner the party gets back to the bedrock principles the party once stood for.

[WillyT]

140. The Last Time Our Party Had Heroes... Was When They Created The Party, Served 4 Terms...

And got shot in the head...two times in 5 years...

There was another guy that got shot dead for trying to change things as well.

THEY... were heroes... not perfect, but Heroes nonetheless.

The Clintons ???

Be careful who you call "Heroes".

[red dog 1]

231. + 1000

[SusanCalvin]

168. Did you forget the emoticon? nt

[TSIAS]

199. I'll be your hero

[BooScout]

147. Hey Skinner....

I know you tried....but I don't see much hope for civil discourse here in this forum, but what do I know, I'm just a Hillary shill.

[Reter]

150. We're not lucky

I don't like candidates kissing each other's asses.

[SusanCalvin]

156. Huh?

I don't think not attacking personally is the same as ass kissing...

[Laser102]

211. Neither do I. Having people with different views discussing and being civil

Is a sign of maturity. The rest who like to engage in rancor and name calling should stay in their corner of the playground. The adult candidates in the democratic race are making me proud.

[betsuni]

172. Let me get this straight.

After reading though the comments here, I am to believe that Clinton is paying surrogates to make horrible attacks on Sanders, such as questioning his record on gun control, his outreach to Latinos, his electability in a general election, and saying that Clinton's credentials are better than Sanders', things like that. And Clinton is not mentioning Sanders because she is scared or .... something. Now, maybe it's just me, but this isn't a very convincing conspiracy theory. I don't get it.

[SusanCalvin]

180. Don't think she's paying anybody.

Do think there's an insider's club, informally, at least. Do think she's scared, with reason. I'm a Bernie supporter, so I guess I should be keeping this to myself, but I think it is obvious to the most casual observer.

[betsuni]

183. Of course there are insiders and outsiders and clubs. How is that not politics as usual?

That's true for most groups.

[SusanCalvin]

184. Yes, of course.

And I am commenting on the workings of same, as, I believe, are you.

[TBF]

202. Who said "paying"?

I doubt she has asked them to make these comments and of course she is not paying them. But she is not refuting them either, is she?

[betsuni]

206. The Politico article, comment 44. nt

[TBF]

216. Link? The OP's article was Wash Post. nt

[betsuni]

219. I said comment #44

"Hillary Clinton's proxies ramp up attacks against Sanders" -- the Politico article.

[frylock]

235. Her campaign is paying the travel expenses of surrogates that have spoken out against Sanders..

in early primary states.

[SusanCalvin]

187. Nice try, but it's apples and oranges.

Generated good discussions, though.

[eridani]

198. Hands off personalities still means that policies are fair game n/t

[riversedge]

203. Thank you -we needed this reminder of civilty

Happy Labor Day all.

[George II]

207. No need when you have people doing stuff like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251575208

[beam me up scottie]

209. Or this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026737025

[beam me up scottie]

210. And this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251506371

But yes, by all means call out cali for posting their opinion because that's so much more despicable.

[beam me up scottie]

212. And one more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251549982

Who needs Republicans when DUers are doing their dirty work?

[SusanCalvin]

217. Thanks for the link.

As far as I am currently aware, that OP is 100% factual.

[annabanana]

214. heh. . .Luv ya Skinner . .It's gonna be a lo-o-o-ong year. . . . n/t

[DFW]

218. George Orwell predicted the posts on this thread long ago

The ending of "Animal Farm"---

"Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

[99Forever]

227. Hiding behind surrogates for "plausible deniability" is still...

... dirty politics.

Period.

Please don't think we are fooled.