For those who do not remember Biden '08, he's the green line:

[Attorney in Texas]

Biden has been a great VP, but he's been wrong on several key issues:

* eviscerating consumer bankruptcy protections
* banking deregulation
* mandatory harsh sentences for drug possession crimes
* the Iraq war vote
* the Clarence Thomas confirmation

When the MSM touts a Biden candidacy, it is because it helps the news/punditry industry generate content for sale, not because it would help the Democrats nominate or elect a better candidate or president.

[LettuceSea]

1. Unfortunate you feel that way, but ask yourself

"Does posting this help or hurt my candidate's image?"

[99Forever]

3. Got a problem with a potential candidate's....

...factual history being known?


What's up with that?

[LettuceSea]

6. You're right, you're right

You are right, it's best to air out his record now as opposed to later. I thought OP was an HRC supporter, which was why I was puzzled.

If OP is a Bernie supporter, those are valid criticisms that need answering if he chooses to run. If not, the OP was comically hypocritical.

[99Forever]

7. I don't agree.

Posting factual histories of potential candidates is always appropriate regardless of one's preferred choice.

[LettuceSea]

9. Context and source are also important

If those arguments are coming from a Bernie supporter, it has WAYYY more validity than, say, a supporter of a candidate who's got their own blood on those issues as well.

For example, when Ray Lewis went on his holier than thou Domestic Violence rant on ESPN, I laughed my ass off.

[99Forever]

11. Facts are facts. eom

[dsc]

13. well someone his comically hypocritical

I agree with that.

[MADem]

4. What does the thread starter's "candidate" have to do with anything?

What an odd thing to say.

The putative "candidate" in question is Biden.

[Attorney in Texas]

5. Who's "image" are you referring to? I act as a spokesperson for no candidate.

I want the most progressive candidate to win the primary and to win the general election.

I'm supporting Sanders now, but I may well be supporting Clinton in the general election.

So whose "image" is besmirched by reminding people who do not recall that Biden's stellar performance as VP does not erase the fact that he is a poor performer on the campaign trial? I didn't make this up -- I gave you a chart showing that data supports this conclusion.

Whose "image" is helped or hurt by reminding people that Biden is a very nice guy who has previously found himself on the wrong side of several critical issues (for example, consumer bankruptcy protections being a key area where he made the law significantly worse for working people and considerable tilted in favor of his top corporate financial contributor -- he didn't just vote for this bill, he made the bill biased in this fashion). I didn't make this up either -- Biden's votes on all of the issues I mentioned are public knowledge.

Whose "image" are you worried about?

[LettuceSea]

8. I thought you were a HRC supporter, my bad

A lot of those points you mentioned have more than one candidate's blood on them, which was why I was puzzled. But coming from a Bernie supporter your points have merit, so I apologize for pigeonholing you.

In another light, it's encouraging that all of his dirty laundry has been aired these past 4-6 weeks, yet his poll numbers have gone up. So I guess you guys are right...it's best to get this all out now as opposed to later.

[Attorney in Texas]

10. I support Sanders, but I'll support the nominee whoever it is. I like Clinton; I just prefer Sanders

I would like to discourage a Biden candidacy because (a) I don't think he wins the nomination, (b) I think he blocks Sanders' rising campaign, and (c) I think he hurts Clinton in a way that makes her less viable in the general election if she does win the nomination.

A Biden candidacy works against electing a Democratic president regardless of who the nominee is.

[MADem]

20. Wow, you sure read THAT one wrong, didn't you?

And why did you regard the OP as "bad" from a Clinton supporter, but "having merit" because it's from a Biden supporter?

I think you have a bias problem. No, I know you have a bias problem--and that post just proved it.

ettuceSea
8. I thought you were a HRC supporter, my bad
View profile
A lot of those points you mentioned have more than one candidate's blood on them, which was why I was puzzled. But coming from a Bernie supporter your points have merit, so I apologize for pigeonholing you.

In another light, it's encouraging that all of his dirty laundry has been aired these past 4-6 weeks, yet his poll numbers have gone up. So I guess you guys are right...it's best to get this all out now as opposed to later.

I hate to tell you, all of his dirty laundry has NOT been aired--it's just been mentioned. If anyone actually went to the hamper and started turning it out, we'd be bowled over by the stank.

He does not need to do this--if he does, he will regret it.

His wife went back to teaching school, so FWIW, that's what she thinks of it.

[MADem]

2. Two words. Neil. Kinnock.

One more word: Plagiarist.

That's what sunk his first campaign.

Two more words: TWO AVM's. He almost died.

His health is an issue.

He is grieving the death of his son. How's he going to react when the media seizes on why his other son left the Navy so ignominiously?


His wife has already committed to her teaching schedule. She ain't gonna be there to help him. I think this is a last hurrah of "Look at me!" If it's not, he's lost all semblance of good judgment.

[reddread]

17. the disgrace of plagiarism has really been his undoing

it certainly set a subconscious precedent for those old enough to have seen that unfold.
A busy fellow, he has subsequently performed some of the most disgusting tricks in office,
none quite so distasteful, successful and horribly impactful as the Clarence Thomas operation.
As far as Im concerned the dude's a Dick Cheney with a (D)
mostly, a Dick.

[MADem]

19. CONFIRMATION is an HBO film starring Greg Kinnear as Joe Biden and Kerry Washington as Anita Hill.

It will NOT be kind to Joe Biden.

I didn't even bring that up, but it's a valid point.

That film comes out in 2016--it'll be the talk of the town.


I didn't even get into all that credit card stuff, either--but that's a real lead balloon.

Biden can't just run on Obama's record. He's got one of his own.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. And the RAVE act, too.

Biden's history on the drug war is a problem.

That doesn't mean "ohmigodwemustallrallybehindHillarybecausewedonthaveachoice", but if we need more choices*, Biden's not one of my preferred picks.

*we don't. We have a couple other perfectly fine alternatives should Hillary's already considerable campaign problems continue to grow.

[ram2008]

14. Biden's my number 2 and needs to get in the race

Just look at Hillary's comments today regarding Iran. Sure, he made mistakes, but have no doubt about it, if Hillary is elected she will be a war hawk neoliberal. We need to have a backup if Bernie doesn't take off...

Obama has done well in reversing the war-hawk trend of our country. Biden would be able to continue on the progress that's been made, but Hillary would erase all of that progress and return us to the Bush era tactics, confrontational stances, and pre-emptive striking non-sense. No Thanks.

[ibegurpard]

15. Absolutely

There is no hunger in this country for Joementum version 2.0

[Attorney in Texas]

18. I feel confident that he will decide not run, but I do not feel confident that he will decide soon

[reddread]

16. he is perfectly useful

to give the talking airheads something besides Sanders to discuss.
anything.
Biden will do.

[bullwinkle428]

21. You forgot to note he also voted for the Hyde Amendment.

[reddread]

22. simply not a short list

[Attorney in Texas]

23. Good point. Hyde Amendment, votes to ban 3rd trimester options, no support for Freedom of Choice Act

[FSogol]

24. Wish everyone put as much gleeful effort into bashing the GOP's candidates.

[Attorney in Texas]

25. 4 Points: 1) I bashing Republican candidates PLENTY; 2) Biden's NOT a candidate, and I do not bash

Democratic candidates -- I'm a Sanders supporter who never has anything bad to say about Clinton or O'Malley (although I almost felt the compelled to criticize O'Malley's "all live matter" comment, I chose not to) and if I had anything to say about Chafee, I'm sure it would be good or at least a factually based policy disagreement over social security (but I offer no similar prediction that I would restrict myself to positive comments if I ever felt the need to comment about Webb);

3) a frank discussion of how Biden would weaken the field by jumping in too late to win the nomination and supporting that opinion with factual documentation about his history as a lackluster campaigner and his history of voting on issues that puts him just to the right of Clinton -- an ideological spot on the political spectrum where there is not exactly a swooning desire to have the position filled by a new candidate -- is not "bashing;"

4) this is General Discussion: Primaries -- a forum created for the purpose of debate about Democratic candidates, including some "bashing" of candidates -- so if a discussion of Biden's voting record is too brisk for you, then you may want to eschew this forum.

[FSogol]

26. Eschew?

Gesundheit

Thanks for the lecture....not. All I see is Ham and Cheese.