"I've been accused of being a moderate. I plead guilty." -HRC. "I am a proud progressive." -Bernie

[gobears10]

The contrast could not be clearer, and it's all in this Wolf Blitzer interview. Start watching at 5:20

&

In Columbus, Ohio today, Hillary Clinton painted herself as a "moderate," and said "I plead guilty" to being a moderate. Wolf Blitzer asks Bernie Sanders in the interview if he "pleads guilty to being a moderate," and Bernie says "no," and then says, "I am a proud progressive." I think this contrast should be highlighted more, especially to progressive Democrats who are currently supporting Hillary. Especially when "moderate" in this case equals corporate America's hook up with power, nothing else.

Check out this excellent Vox article about why we should be wary of politicians who self-identify as "moderate." Link: http://www.vox.com/2014/7/8/5878293/lets-stop-using-the-word-moderate

Here's an excerpt:

"When we say moderate what we really mean is what corporations want," Broockman says. "Within both parties there is this tension between what the politicians who get more corporate money and tend to be part of the establishment want — that's what we tend to call moderate — versus what the Tea Party and more liberal members want."

I've always said that if you are someone who is genuinely centrist in your policy positions, it makes sense for you to support Hillary. However, if you take a political compass test (ISideWith, for example), and your policy positions put you on the left-wing end of the Democratic Party, then voting for Hillary over Bernie makes absolutely no sense at all.

[azmom]

1. I'm a proud progressive too.

Go Bernie!!!

[HereSince1628]

2. But there are no more true democrats than there are true Scotsmen.

We're forever being told that "no true democrat would ___________"

When you add it all up there are not only no true democrats left there are no democrats left.
Only people posing to be democrats.

[99th_Monkey]

3. That was a great interview, despite Blitzer

but actually Wolf seemed to be taking Bernie a bit more seriously than before Iowa poll came out.

[appalachiablue]

4. K & R. Great interview by Bernie. He's more of a true Democrat than I've seen in decades.

He's the Real Deal. Go Bernie Go!

[RufusTFirefly]

6. The fact that Clinton is a moderate isn't big news for many of us.

And yet, oddly enough, there are people on this board who seem bound and determined to prove that she is a "liberal."

Strange that they haven't yet come to terms with what even their own candidate admits.

[Herman4747]

7. Okay, so who has a better chance in next year's election?

The moderate or the progressive? Who would better be able to get votes from the substantial number of independents?

Before answering, consider how well the 1972 election turned out.

[frylock]

8. This isn't 1972..

the game has passed you by. People have opened their eyes, and they don't like where moderation has taken us.

[Art_from_Ark]

9. I think people who keep bringing up 1972

have no idea what it was like in 1972.

[Herman4747]

14. I can assure you that I have at least a vague inkling...

[Art_from_Ark]

20. The vaguest of vague inklings

[ms liberty]

21. That only describes the election results...

It does not describe America and the electorate. That may tell you what we got, but it doesn't tell you how we got there to get it.

[Art_from_Ark]

30. Tell me how many of these aspects of the 1972 election apply today

The Paris Peace Talks and drawdown of the Vietnam War, with an announcement of American withdrawal made in October 1972
An incumbent Republican President
Announcement of the upcoming end of the draft by said incumbent Republican President to win the hearts and minds of newly-minted 18-to-20-year-old voters.
The Committee to Re-Elect the President (CREEP)
Break-in of Democratic headquarters at the Watergate Hotel
Botched Vice-Presidential selection by the Democratic presidential nominee, despite pleas by numerous Democrats to nominate someone else.

[Herman4747]

10. In 2014 The American Electorate Gave More Votes to Republicans...

...running for the House of Representatives than to Democrats. Now you would have us believe that a scant 2 years later this same electorate will be willing to elect a socialist as president.
It's good to have one's eyes open, yes, but it can be problematic if one sees only what one wants to see.

[ms liberty]

17. Not a Presidential election year...

Look at 2012 instead as it would be more representative of a voting pattern than 2014. In 2012, more votes were cast for Democrats running for the House nationwide, but the GOP held the House due to gerrymandering. It may actually have been that way in 2014 as well, but I do not know for sure. Gerrymandering by the repugs is a huge problem, and we have to get some states back to Dem control by 2020.

[frylock]

18. The Democrtas ran shit candidates who could generate zero enthusiasm..

if you get your wish, and Clinton is the candidate, you're going to see the lowest voter turnout in presidential election history. Millennials don't give a shit about Hillary or her mom's hard upbringing. They care about student debt and crap wages.

[Dont call me Shirley]

24. On Thom Hartmann I heard that stat is the opposite, more Democrats voted than Republicans

yet because of gerrymandering the GOP won more seats.

[Herman4747]

27. Wikipedia is more reliable

Popular vote 40,081,282 votes for Republicans 35,624,357 for Democrats

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2014

[Dont call me Shirley]

29. Several of my child's teachers will not allow him to use Wikipedia as a resource for papers.

"The incoming Senate is comprised mostly of Republicans -- 54 to the Democrats' 44 (plus two independents, who hang out/vote with Democrats). But those Democrats actually received 20 million more cumulative votes than did the Republicans, as Vox pointed out (to much Internet traffic, no doubt) over the weekend. What gives?"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/01/05/senate-democrats-got-20-million-more-votes-than-senate-republicans-which-means-basically-nothing/

[Herman4747]

31. Okay, for the U.S. Senate in 2014:

Popular vote 24,631,488 votes for Republicans 20,875,493 votes for Democrats

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_2014

If you don't like Wikipedia, THEN FIND MORE ACCURATE NUMBERS (if you can).

[rainbow fish]

33. You know, if you were in my civics class

and you use that Wikipedia shit - you'd be given an F, kicked out of my class and sent to remedial writing for a few weeks.

[Herman4747]

42. I'm Glad That I'm Not in Your Civics Class...

...please convey my deep sympathy and condolences to those who are.

[Dont call me Shirley]

48. Thank you, rainbow fish. And a big welcome!

[Dont call me Shirley]

47. I trust WaPo more than Wikipedia....

"The incoming Senate is comprised mostly of Republicans -- 54 to the Democrats' 44 (plus two independents, who hang out/vote with Democrats). But those Democrats actually received 20 million more cumulative votes than did the Republicans, as Vox pointed out (to much Internet traffic, no doubt) over the weekend."

[PoutrageFatigue]

46. Um, no.

Something that can be edited by the general population is "more reliable"?

[LeftOfWest]

50. no it isn't.

it is run be rethugs....stop.

[kenfrequed]

37. Yeah...

and the thing they fail to tell you about '72 is that after McGovern took the nomination, a very sizable number of angry establishment democrats all threw their support to Nixon in the general election out of spite. It was despicable, but the way people talk about that election they tend to ignore the turncoats and conservative Democrats that showed no loyalty at all.

[frylock]

38. PUMA '72

[kenfrequed]

39. Well...

As much as I was annoyed with the Hillary supporters in '08 the PUMA thing was more noise than reality. Most of them weren't really democrats at all and were sort of republican plants hoping to make more drama and angst. Sure, there were a few Democrats among them here and there but the majority of it was a scam.

'72 was the real deal with a bunch of the power brokers getting pissy and balking at a progressive anti war candidate having been elected. There was influence, money, and support thrown around. It should also be noted that a lot of the swing of Southern Democrats towards the republicans started in the 72-76 period with Nixon.

[frylock]

40. Good info. Thanks..

I was 7 years old in 1972, and admittedly don't know much about McGovern or the '72 election.

[XemaSab]

12. In the primaries, you swing left to capture the base.

In the general, you swing to the right to pick up swing voters.

If this is Hillary swinging to the left, what's it going to look like when she swings to the right?

[a2liberal]

26. The progressive

I really don't understand the "Clinton is more electable meme". In my discussions with friends and acquaintances, across the political spectrum (and in web browsing too but that's not the main point), I have run into:

- many people (including conservatives and independents) who would vote for Bernie but not for Hillary in the general
- several people who would vote for either Bernie or Hillary over a Republican in the general
- several people who would vote Republican over either Bernie or Hillary (a few of them converted to category 1 after discussing Bernie with them...)
- zero (zilch, zip, nada) people who would vote for Hillary but not for Bernie (that's in the personal discussions, I have seen a few here on DU...)

And despite all of the above:

- many people who think Hillary is more electable than Bernie (but can't explain it given the above observations)

Bernie's power has to do with the fact that people across the political spectrum are fed up with corporatists and lobbyists and see Bernie wanting to fight that. And they believe him... trust is a big issue. I've had a few tell me they disagree with Bernie on a lot but would vote for him because they believe him when he says something, and that's not true of other politicians.

You won't believe how much dislike of Hillary I hear amongst the independents... I end up having to defend her much of the time! To no avail usually though...

[Report1212]

28. Someone people like, and are inspired by

Not someone who goes months and hasn't scored one great commercial, or one great event, because they can't even handle a pithy email thing

[Hissyspit]

36. The way the GOP field is right now, either.

[rhett o rick]

43. Glad you asked. Sen Sanders is waking up a sleeping giant, the independants.

They are tired of the status quo of Wash DC corruption where the billionaires rule. Granted the billionaires will try to SwiftBoat Bernie but I think the wavy of populism will overrun the corruption of the Oligarchy.

[Gman]

11. I'm a moderate too

As are many here at DU.

[NYCButterfinger]

13. What is wrong with moderate?

I have moderate views on certain things. Moderates can be beneficial in both parties. Clinton is a center left Democrat. She's progressive on some issues.

[daleanime]

16. Nothing.....

what's wrong with being a progressive?

[DrBulldog]

19. You need to get the Bernie v Hillary "cheat sheet" that has been published many times.

It shows approximately TWENTY major issues or decisions where Bernie has been the opposite of Hillary. She's not progressive on most of the issues that matter most today.

[DrBulldog]

15. Translation: A Democratic moderate is a corporatist who pretends to be neutral.

That is, bought and paid for - but out of a different account.

[colsohlibgal]

22. Moderates

I hear the word moderate and see it as screwing regular folks just a bit less.

It is going to take progressive policies to take this nation back from the Plutocracy and the MI Complex.

[Bonobo]

23. A "moderate" in America. In Europe? A hard-core right winger. nt

[Dont call me Shirley]

25. Proud Progressive!

[SoapBox]

32. I'll skip a title for myself...

What I want is what Bernie wants.

It all seems very normal...very mainstream...and what America should be about.

[Auggie]

34. Yep. The contrast could not be clearer.

I think Clinton is a fraud too. But I'll vote for her, even in the primaries, if at the time she gives us the best chance of retaining the White House.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

35. You can spot a "moderate" by the way they craft language to make it sound like you'll like it.

[Scuba]

41. K&R from this proud progressive.

[bvar22]

44. A Moderate?

YES!.... but which Party?

[AgingAmerican]

45. She won't even say what she is

Calling yourself a 'Moderate' is the same as refusing to say what you are, isn't it?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice. Thomas Paine